Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me

[Jibralta]

3 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

Trying to live with it is working, technically.

How is it working? Your ability to deal with your daily activities is waning, and you're less interested in your hobbies, work, friends gatherings, etc. What exactly defines your life, if not these things?

[bbogdanov]

9 hours ago, LaHermes said:

As Bolt asked.

Practical help? Ongoing from a professional?

I may consider it. I've been to counceling in the past and I like it. It definitely helps but I think it doesn't have long-lasting effect or I may be doing it wrong?

[bbogdanov]

9 hours ago, boltnrun said:

No, it's not. You said it's "exhausting".

A professional could help you.

That's why I said "technically". It's working because I don't involve her in my problems and I am taking responsibility for it. Of course I don't feel good struggling and it's not supposed to be like that but It's all in my head and she is not accountable for it.

[bbogdanov]

5 hours ago, Jibralta said:

How is it working? Your ability to deal with your daily activities is waning, and you're less interested in your hobbies, work, friends gatherings, etc. What exactly defines your life, if not these things?

See my above post replying to boltnrun about "working". All those things define my life, sure. I haven't left them totally, there's just a decrease. I hope everything gets back to normal when that inital stage is over.

[Rose Mosse]

16 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

A little bit of venting.

Last evening we spent more time together (she asked me to meet up) and slept at my place as usual. The experience is great but I catch myself more and more unable to deal with my daily activities. It becomes a little whirlwind and I feel less motivated and interested in my hobbies, work, friends gatherings, etc. I feel guilty about it because I know there have to be a balance. I am often thinking about her, the relationship and all that stuff. I should be extremely happy because of how things are going, yet I seem to not be able to relax and enjoy it. There's still some fear that I might get rejected despite all the facts that point to the opposite. We are going to the weekend vacation tomorrow and I know we'll have a great time. I just want to be able to manage my time when I am alone so I am not so dependent on her or the relationship.

She shouldn't be sleeping over at your place each time. It's the same routine and it becomes stale. Give yourself more room to breathe. This is so new and early and yet seems stifling so fast. 

 

 

[bbogdanov]

2 hours ago, Rose Mosse said:

She shouldn't be sleeping over at your place each time. It's the same routine and it becomes stale. Give yourself more room to breathe. This is so new and early and yet seems stifling so fast. 

 

 

I know it becomes routine but we both seem to enjoy it for now. It doesn't happen every day so we have room to breathe from each other (and I don't feel suffocated at all). She is almost always the one to ask me to sleep over at my place after we have a date and it somehow comes naturally. I can't imagine leaving her at her place (she lives with her sister and they don't have a good relationship). So when we meet up, we always end up sleeping at my place. 

[LaHermes]

6 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

It definitely helps but I think it doesn't have long-lasting effect or I may be doing it wrong?

Therapy (counselling) isn't like a painkiller, where the effect wears off!

With a properly qualified therapist you keep at it until you are in possession of the mental tools to get on top of your insecurities. You will do it "properly" in the hands of a skilful and experienced therapist. 

[Batya33]

8 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I may consider it. I've been to counceling in the past and I like it. It definitely helps but I think it doesn't have long-lasting effect or I may be doing it wrong?

Honestly if you like it it sounds maybe like you weren’t challenged or given hard work to do. 

[bbogdanov]

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

Therapy (counselling) isn't like a painkiller, where the effect wears off!

With a properly qualified therapist you keep at it until you are in possession of the mental tools to get on top of your insecurities. You will do it "properly" in the hands of a skilful and experienced therapist. 

I will consider it. I’ve been to two or three different councelors in the past.

[bbogdanov]

9 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Honestly if you like it it sounds maybe like you weren’t challenged or given hard work to do. 

What do you mean? I can’t understand exactly. 

[Rose Mosse]

8 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

I know it becomes routine but we both seem to enjoy it for now. It doesn't happen every day so we have room to breathe from each other (and I don't feel suffocated at all). She is almost always the one to ask me to sleep over at my place after we have a date and it somehow comes naturally. I can't imagine leaving her at her place (she lives with her sister and they don't have a good relationship). So when we meet up, we always end up sleeping at my place. 

I can't relate to your anxiety that seems to persist. I have had anxious periods, very stressful periods in my life, but never a pervasive anxiousness that persists like this. I don't think there's any shame at all in seeking professional opinion and speaking with your doctor or seeking therapy. 

When I read about the way the both of you are dating, it seems stifling and too much too soon. This may be age talking because I far more prefer the comforts of my own home than spending it any anyone else's place. Also, quality of quantity. That means quality of time spent together rather than quantity of hours. I've never been sentimental about sleeping with another person. It gets in the way of my mornings and I like to be up and about. My ex knew that about me so he'd often wake up to an empty bed and house and I would come back later in the day and we'd enjoy the days together if he had a day off. Sometimes I'd stay but it was rare. This probably didn't work for him in the long run although I was totally fine being on my own for half the day. 

I think eventually both of you will come to a compromise that works and leaves room for your other interests and hobbies, seeing a professional about how to quell those thoughts or find the right tools as others have said. I'm really happy for you that you've found someone special also. That's something to be positive about.

[bbogdanov]

On 7/16/2021 at 7:31 PM, Rose Mosse said:

I can't relate to your anxiety that seems to persist. I have had anxious periods, very stressful periods in my life, but never a pervasive anxiousness that persists like this. I don't think there's any shame at all in seeking professional opinion and speaking with your doctor or seeking therapy. 

When I read about the way the both of you are dating, it seems stifling and too much too soon. This may be age talking because I far more prefer the comforts of my own home than spending it any anyone else's place. Also, quality of quantity. That means quality of time spent together rather than quantity of hours. I've never been sentimental about sleeping with another person. It gets in the way of my mornings and I like to be up and about. My ex knew that about me so he'd often wake up to an empty bed and house and I would come back later in the day and we'd enjoy the days together if he had a day off. Sometimes I'd stay but it was rare. This probably didn't work for him in the long run although I was totally fine being on my own for half the day. 

I think eventually both of you will come to a compromise that works and leaves room for your other interests and hobbies, seeing a professional about how to quell those thoughts or find the right tools as others have said. I'm really happy for you that you've found someone special also. That's something to be positive about.

No, there isn't any shame in seeking therapy, I agree. This anxious period is going on for several weeks now (there are moments of anxiety, it's not permanent).

I don't feel it's stifling for now but I agree that things are progressing fast (especially lately). She seems to enjoy the comfort of my home (as well as my company) and I think it is further enhanced by the situation with her sister. We really don't count on quantity - we spend much time together lately but it is quality also. We do different things and go to different places so I can say that we are not bored at all when we are together.

There have to be room for everyone's interest and hobbies, of course. Maybe we tend to neglect them a little bit now because we are in the beginning and want to spend more time with each other (I don't know how healthy that is) but eventually things have to settle down. Thank you!

[bbogdanov]

BTW the weekend vacation was great.

She confirmed that she'd called her ex two weeks ago (when we spoke about it) to tell him about me and to not contact her anymore (but she again said that I didn't trust her). She said that she knew I wouldn't be OK with the sea vacation but I told her that I was mostly at ease with it (not 100% but enough to not make it a big deal). She was concerned that I would flip out and reject her when time comes. I told her that I'd like her to enjoy the vacation and I wouldn't text her and bother her (like you suggested) but she was surprised and upset because she wanted me to reach out.

We were having lunch yesterday and agreed to get back to my place after we return from the vacation. I told her that she could be visiting me more often or even move in with me. She said that she couldn't conveniently go to work that way (she is using public transport only and I live in a neighbourhood that has only couple of lines connecting it to other parts of the city). So our opinions on the topic seemed to be opposite. I told her that some problems just can't be solved (implying that our opinions were not matched) and she got upset and closed off. She said I was very stubborn and a solution could always be found. I told her that I liked my apartment (although I am a tenant) and all my friends lived in the area and I was not comfortable with going to another place at the moment (and I rented it couple of months ago from an acquaintance so I won't feel well if I had to leave it so soon). Her idea (although not explicitly stated) was that we could eventually get another place for us two that would be close to the subway so she could easily go to work and meet with friends.

On the way back she seemed sad and sulky although she was affectionate at times. I think she was struggling with her emotions. We spent the night at my place and didn't talk anymore about it.

Do you think I am stubborn to not want to go to another place? I really enjoy being with my friends almost every day and it is very convenient to have them in close proximity and although I might make a compromise with that in the future, leaving the apartment after just couple of months will make me feel bad because I will think of it as a betrayal to my landlords (which are my acquaintances from the neighbourhood). Technically I won't owe them anything (except for an additional small fee) but I feel reponsible for staying there at least a year or so. And the house is super nice, frehsly renovated and the fee is below average (financially it's a great deal). The only shortcoming of the neighbourhood is the public transport availability which is not of importance to me because I am travelling everywhere by car. What should I do?

[Jibralta]

51 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

Do you think I am stubborn to not want to go to another place?

Are you in a rush to move in together?

I think it's really too early to decide. It's fine to mull the idea over with each other in the abstract and have fun with it, but neither one of you should be getting upset at this point if you can't reach an agreement. 

If things in this relationship move into the long term, then start to consider it seriously. 

 

[bbogdanov]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

Are you in a rush to move in together?

I think it's really too early to decide. It's fine to mull the idea over with each other in the abstract and have fun with it, but neither one of you should be getting upset at this point if you can't reach an agreement. 

If things in this relationship move into the long term, then start to consider it seriously. 

 

I am not in a rush at all.

We just happened to discuss the topic and I invited her to spend more time or even come to my place for an indefinite amount of time because it feels natural and seems like a progression. It's early to decide, I agree. I think we were both considering things from the current point of view. And that's why I told her that some issues couldn't be resolved (our opinions on the topic were opposite) and she got upset. She accused me that it was too easy for me to give up like that, problems could always be solved if both people worked on them, etc. I said that any one of us (or both) can make a compromise, technically, but in the end it's extremely important that the person is comfortable with it. Otherwise one can feel lost, not true to him/herself, build resentment, etc. Which is not good for both people after all.

So in theory - what do we do if it's a long term relationship and we consider it seriously but we still can't reach an agreement about it?

[Jibralta]

2 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

And that's why I told her that some issues couldn't be resolved (our opinions on the topic were opposite) and she got upset.

In all fairness, you got defensive and inflexible. It's way too early to seriously consider moving in and you were already laying down rules about what you wouldn't give up. You made yourself look like a brick wall. Who wants to snuggle up to that?

[bbogdanov]

2 minutes ago, Jibralta said:

In all fairness, you got defensive and inflexible. It's way too early to seriously consider moving in and you were already laying down rules about what you wouldn't give up. You made yourself look like a brick wall. Who wants to snuggle up to that?

It may be. I guess I can't be flexible about anything and there are some things that I really want to maintain in my life. For now this is the place I am living in (that I like a lot and it's financially appropriate) and my circle of close friends (which is my social support network and a source of happiness). And I think I may make some unconscious comparison that draws me towards retaining those things. I will be happy to have best of both worlds but if I have to decide - I don't know what I will choose (in the future). That's why I acted like that and it may really sounded hardcore. But in the end - there weren't any rules (nobody is obliged to follow anything), just a statement of mine about  the current situation. I offered her to keep dating like we've been doing it up to now (I have no problem either way) if she didn't want to move in at my place but she still seemed upset and that option was still not attractive to her.

And I really want a good communicator for a partner. She was totally silent at that lunch and didn't want to tell what the problem is (just pouting). I asked her explicitly if she wanted to share what she was thinking and to express herself openly but she just said "I don't want to". We then had to finish lunch in almost awkward silence but she reached out to me eventually and started kissing me.

We were listening to the radio in the car while driving back home when she told me something but I said I couldn't hear her because of the loud music and she turned the volume down and went silent and sulky again. There were several such moments for the day when she was bitc*y and I asked her what the problem now was - she remained silent. Couple of minutes later she said that she had been enjoying the music and was angry that I'd "made" her turn the volume down and she admitted being sour because of not having sex... She apologized several times in the evening for her behaviour and being childish. Are women supposed to act like that?

[LaHermes]

1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

Are women supposed to act like that?

Strange question, OP.  People, men and women, act in all manner of ways, all the time and every day.  

Reading you I quite honestly do not see this relationship becoming "long-term" , or even short-term, the way things stand between you now. 

1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

I guess I can't be flexible about anything and there are some things that I really want to maintain in my life.

Right there you have a problem OP. We all have to be flexible at times, life is about give and take.

 

1 hour ago, bbogdanov said:

And I really want a good communicator for a partner.

You don't say!  Your own communication could do with some improvement.  

[Batya33]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

In all fairness, you got defensive and inflexible. It's way too early to seriously consider moving in and you were already laying down rules about what you wouldn't give up. You made yourself look like a brick wall. Who wants to snuggle up to that?

I think her attitude was because of how you behaved as Jibralta stated - negative energy and vibes that persisted.  No reason at all to talk in detail about sharing physical space (I know many live together before marriage -no biggie -but sharing physical space doesn't necessarily mean closer in an emotional way -depends on the reasons why the couple moves in - we moved in together officially after we married although spent lots of time at each other's places before marriage and were long distance for a good bit of it -I am really glad we didn't live together because we became parents a few months after we officially moved in -living together as a couple has little to do with living together in a one bedroom apartment with a newborn).

So my husband and I discussed one aspect of living together when we got back together.  Because otherwise it would have been an elephant in the room.  We knew we'd be long distance, we knew his career required geographic flexibility.  So we knew and decided the day we got back together that I'd be open to relocating.  I had a few states that were dealbreakers, he has one state he is not interested in (but I could be). 

So we were 800 miles apart during much of my pregnancy a few years later, and had a commuter marriage for the first five months.  Then I relocated to his new city. But although we had to have this conversation right away given his career and the necessity of being ready to relocate, once we established I was open to it and my boundaries the convo was over.  But it also wasn't about convenience -it was his career -in fact, his dream career - and given that we knew I likely would be home longer than maternity leave if we had a child, his career took precedence.  Had it been just about convenience or preference I would have looked at him like he had two heads. 

The first time we dated and were engaged (in our early 30s) we lived together for about a month before breaking up (only time I lived with someone- our wedding was planned for a few months later).  That time we discussed living together when we got engaged.  We'd been dating a little less than 2 years at that point.  We each had a one bedroom apartment and we moved into a two bedroom in a suburb right outside the city and near his parents.  But we settled on the location quickly and we both had to be flexible. 

But being flexible is easier when you're engaged, when you've been dating the better part of 2 years because you already are committed and serious and decided to be together so the stakes are real and higher.  You've owned pairs of socks longer than you've been dating this woman.  Slow down.

But other than a really unusual situation like we had when we got back together -there is absolutely no reason to have this conversation.  You have no clue what your arrangement will be in 6 months-year from now. You could have a new job, she could, your building could be condemned, she could decide to buy a house or you could.  You could break up for some reason.  So your aggressive over the top detailed discussion in the way you did it created way too much unnecessary tension and stress.  Why would you take that approach??

[bbogdanov]

16 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Strange question, OP.  People, men and women, act in all manner of ways, all the time and every day.  

Reading you I quite honestly do not see this relationship becoming "long-term" , or even short-term, the way things stand between you now. 

Right there you have a problem OP. We all have to be flexible at time, life is about give and take.

 

You don't say!  Your own communication could do with some improvement.  

Not a strange question to me, I was asking seriously because I don't know a man that behaves like that.

Life is about give and take. I give some things, take others but everybody decides what is comfortable for him, right?

Everybody's communication needs an improvement (mine included). But I have never said out of spite "I don't want to", for example...

[bbogdanov]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I think her attitude was because of how you behaved as Jibralta stated - negative energy and vibes that persisted.  No reason at all to talk in detail about sharing physical space (I know many live together before marriage -no biggie -but sharing physical space doesn't necessarily mean closer in an emotional way -depends on the reasons why the couple moves in - we moved in together officially after we married although spent lots of time at each other's places before marriage and were long distance for a good bit of it -I am really glad we didn't live together because we became parents a few months after we officially moved in -living together as a couple has little to do with living together in a one bedroom apartment with a newborn).

So my husband and I discussed one aspect of living together when we got back together.  Because otherwise it would have been an elephant in the room.  We knew we'd be long distance, we knew his career required geographic flexibility.  So we knew and decided the day we got back together that I'd be open to relocating.  I had a few states that were dealbreakers, he has one state he is not interested in (but I could be). 

So we were 800 miles apart during much of my pregnancy a few years later, and had a commuter marriage for the first five months.  Then I relocated to his new city. But although we had to have this conversation right away given his career and the necessity of being ready to relocate, once we established I was open to it and my boundaries the convo was over.  But it also wasn't about convenience -it was his career -in fact, his dream career - and given that we knew I likely would be home longer than maternity leave if we had a child, his career took precedence.  Had it been just about convenience or preference I would have looked at him like he had two heads. 

The first time we dated and were engaged (in our early 30s) we lived together for about a month before breaking up (only time I lived with someone- our wedding was planned for a few months later).  That time we discussed living together when we got engaged.  We'd been dating a little less than 2 years at that point.  We each had a one bedroom apartment and we moved into a two bedroom in a suburb right outside the city and near his parents.  But we settled on the location quickly and we both had to be flexible. 

But being flexible is easier when you're engaged, when you've been dating the better part of 2 years because you already are committed and serious and decided to be together so the stakes are real and higher.  You've owned pairs of socks longer than you've been dating this woman.  Slow down.

But other than a really unusual situation like we had when we got back together -there is absolutely no reason to have this conversation.  You have no clue what your arrangement will be in 6 months-year from now. You could have a new job, she could, your building could be condemned, she could decide to buy a house or you could.  You could break up for some reason.  So your aggressive over the top detailed discussion in the way you did it created way too much unnecessary tension and stress.  Why would you take that approach??

I didn't have negative energy. I was stating what I was comfortable with and what my boundaries were. Sharing physical space is of utmost importance for a relationship and I learned it the hard way (she has too). Without it, you just can't know if your relationship can fully develop. It's easy to go on dates and have fun. Sharing a household and seeing all the little details about the other person is what is the real "test". I am not informed what the situation in the US is, but living together is a prerequisite for marriage here (I don't know of people who do it backwards, it makes no sense). And the future arrangement is valid for both of us - does that mean that every time somebody changes a job we should move around the city? It's not so big of an inconvenience (we don't live in NY). I was spending almost 3 hours a day travelling to my school back in the days and I didn't complain (or relocate or find another school). It's about priorities, I guess, and resilience to some degree. I repeat - there wasn't any aggression from me and the discussion was her idea. I am happy either way - she can move in to my place or we can continue dating like before. I am always taking and leaving her with my car and I don't let her use the public transport when we meet up. 

[LaHermes]

49 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I don't know a man that behaves like that.

That is because you are not dating men.  I sometimes wonder if you actually even LIKE women.  I mean like women as people. 

I think what the posters are trying to tell you is that it is too EARLY yet to move in together, not that you shouldn't ever move in together. 

Many people live together before marriage, both "here" (I am here too!) and I am quite sure in the USA as well.  And there are others who do not.  It is NOT a pre-requisite for marriage btw.  It is entirely up to each couple. 

All that said, and if you think she says things out of spite, and is b**chy, well maybe this is not the woman for you. 

2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

what do we do if it's a long term relationship and we consider it seriously but we still can't reach an agreement about it?

So you tell me/us what YOU think.  

[Jibralta]

2 hours ago, bbogdanov said:

That's why I acted like that and it may really sounded hardcore.

It didn’t sound ‘hardcore,’ it sounded like you want everything your way. No negotiation possible—or if she DOES have the opportunity to negotiate, she should somehow feel very special.

I think that was a pretty big bluff on your part. Silly, too. And she just may call that bluff.

 

[boltnrun]

You say you are insecure and anxious about this woman because she doesn't text you enough and then you do that! 

She probably shut down because she figured you were being inflexible. You weren't open to negotiation or compromise so why bother continuing?  And no, that is not a "woman" thing.

I too would be reluctant to move into a house share situation,  particularly since your housemates are YOUR friends. Awkward!  Not awkward for you, of course. 

Maybe rethink what it is you really want.

[bbogdanov]

1 hour ago, LaHermes said:

That is because you are not dating men.  I sometimes wonder if you actually even LIKE women.  I mean like women as people. 

I think what the posters are trying to tell you is that it is too EARLY yet to move in together, not that you shouldn't ever move in together. 

Many people live together before marriage, both "here" (I am here too!) and I am quite sure in the USA as well.  And there are others who do not.  It is NOT a pre-requisite for marriage btw.  It is entirely up to each couple. 

All that said, and if you think she says things out of spite, and is b**chy, well maybe this is not the woman for you. 

So you tell me/us what YOU think.  

I don’t have to date men to know that such childish behaviour is not something common : ) I like people in general (men or women), not when they act ****y, though. Her apology at least says that she’s realized her mistake which is fine, I told her not to worry about it.

I know that the posters said moving in would be early. I am not actively pursuing that goal. I repeat it once more, because some people don’t get it - she wanted to spend the evening/night at my place when we get back together in town and I told her that she can be my guest more often or even move in. Because it’s completely obvious for me that she wants to spend time with me at my place. She always “sef-invites” her to my place and even if I ask her after a date if I should leave her at her home, she becomes mellow and says with that child-like girly voice “noo, I want to be with you, don’t you want me?”. She even has her belongings in my apartment (toothbrush, clothes, jewellery accessories, etc.). So more or less she is becoming part of my life and vice versa.

For me living together before anything serious IS a prerequisite, unless you want to discover that you can’t bear your partner’s habit of putting his dirty socks all over the house after the marriage and file for divorce afterwards.

And yeah - the only normal thing in that situation would be to have a conversation like adults. I had a habit to be sulky and angry like that when I was a child. Yet I still stumble upon people from both genders that tend to keep such behaviour long into adulthood.