Insecurity while dating a girl brings out the worst in me

[Batya33]

I agree with what everyone else wrote about how you behaved.  And also agree with what LaHermes mentioned about her behavior.  So I'm not going to repeat it.

I don't think sharing physical space is a test to decide whether to marry someone.  I wouldn't have married someone who insisted on it as some sort of test (and as I wrote in my situation it would have been a disaster in that it would have bred false expectations about living together since our living situation less than 3 months after marriage was him, me, our newborn and alllll of our newborn's stuff in a one bedroom apartment. 

3 months after that a move to a bigger apartment same city, 3 months after that my move to his apartment/our home in our new city. Living together just the two of us before marriage would have had no relevance at all to what we had to do to live together as married parents of a newborn.  We spent lots of time at each other's places though and went on lots of vacations and traveled a ton together including internationally so we certainly learned a lot about each other.

[LaHermes]

3 hours ago, LaHermes said:

Are women supposed to act like that?

Well you did ask this earlier.

Glad to see you have now included "both genders". 

And you say and this is YOUR prerogative:

"For me living together before anything serious IS a prerequisite, "

By the way spending a night now and then at the BF/GF's home does not mean "living together".   Living together is when you and she live full time under one roof. 

You remark:

"I’d like to have a girlfriend and someone to share my life with but I won’t do anything for it."

Meaning?

[bbogdanov]

1 hour ago, Jibralta said:

It didn’t sound ‘hardcore,’ it sounded like you want everything your way. No negotiation possible—or if she DOES have the opportunity to negotiate, she should somehow feel very special.

I think that was a pretty big bluff on your part. Silly, too. And she just may call that bluff.

 

I want some things my way. Like I said - I have things I don’t feel comfortable compromising with. At least for now. I don’t make anyone feel special. And it’s not a bluff. If somebody doesn’t like my living place, no problem. Feel free to find another person. I’d like to have a girlfriend and someone to share my life with but I won’t do anything for it. And when she asked me “does that mean that if we can’t resolve that issue, we would have to part ways”, I said yes. What should we do if there isn’t a solution? Pretend there isn’t a problem, somebody compromise with its wishes in the name of the relationship or what? Sometimes two people just aren’t suited for each other and it’s not the end of the world. I WANT both of us to feel good. That’s why I told her that even if she moved in with me, I’d like that she’s OK with such decision. I don’t want to be hated, resented or whatever, it’s not good for both of us.

[Batya33]

6 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I want some things my way. Like I said - I have things I don’t feel comfortable compromising with. At least for now. I don’t make anyone feel special. And it’s not a bluff. If somebody doesn’t like my living place, no problem. Feel free to find another person. I’d like to have a girlfriend and someone to share my life with but I won’t do anything for it. And when she asked me “does that mean that if we can’t resolve that issue, we would have to part ways”, I said yes. What should we do if there isn’t a solution? Pretend there isn’t a problem, somebody compromise with its wishes in the name of the relationship or what? Sometimes two people just aren’t suited for each other and it’s not the end of the world. I WANT both of us to feel good. That’s why I told her that even if she moved in with me, I’d like that she’s OK with such decision. I don’t want to be hated, resented or whatever, it’s not good for both of us.

Some people won't care.  Most people I know would not tolerate anyone telling them they had to live in that person's home and no other place.  Or in that specific neighborhood.  With rare exception.  For example the person has to live with his elderly or disabled parent or relative who he cares for and that person cannot be moved. Or children are involved and school districts, and it's their home too.  But then the person sees that the first time she or he goes to the home - that it involves others' living situations. 

What you are asking for is highly unusual because it's "I like where I live and I won't move for a significant other/spouse so if you don't want to live in this place we're wrong together."  And your choice.  But since it is highly unusual and comes off as highly rigid  I would state this up front -as soon as possible after a few dates at the latest.  

My mother used to tell me -based on real life situations - "if he cancels a date because it's raining outside I wouldn't go out with him again".  Now my mother dated very little - met my dad when she was 16 (didn't live together prior to marriage - married 62 years) - but she was a really wise woman and really emotionally intelligent plus reasonable and she could smell inflexibility/rigidity from a mile away.  I know she would have told me to stop dating someone immediately who wouldn't budge on where precisely to leave.  My way or the highway.  I'd have taken the highway (by Uber as I do not drive, but still).

My take - from what you shared I think I know the source of your insecurity.  You think you should want a partner.  You are into this woman and you are attracted to her.  But when it comes down to it you don't want a true committed relationship that would require more compromise and flexibility than you're willing to give - not in that rationalizing "we both should feel good" -the point is if you'll only feel good if she agrees to live at your place eventually then your expectations our out of whack and saying "I have to feel good" is missing the point. 

I think you're not really into committing, you think you should be, and that disconnect makes you feel insecure because at some point you'll be found out for being two-faced -pretending to want a relationship but really just wanting to play house/play at being a couple but when push comes to shove, you're not budging.  "Because then I won't feel good."  I think you feel good on your own more than you do in a true relationship.

[bbogdanov]

1 hour ago, boltnrun said:

You say you are insecure and anxious about this woman because she doesn't text you enough and then you do that! 

She probably shut down because she figured you were being inflexible. You weren't open to negotiation or compromise so why bother continuing?  And no, that is not a "woman" thing.

I too would be reluctant to move into a house share situation,  particularly since your housemates are YOUR friends. Awkward!  Not awkward for you, of course. 

Maybe rethink what it is you really want.

What has insecurity in common with that? I don’t understand your point exactly.

I have some things I am not open to negotiating (like having pets, for example). I think it’s normal and that’s why two people can be together or not. Some people may be more flexible (or willing to neglect their wishes in order to be with somebody), others - not.

Never have I said my friends are my housemates, where did you get that from?? I am living all alone.

[LaHermes]

32 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

unless you want to discover that you can’t bear your partner’s habit of putting his dirty socks all over the house after the marriage and file for divorce afterwards.

Tell me, OP, you ever heard of "black and white thinking"?

Definition: (anything here sound familiar to you?

"Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism."

Going back to your first post you said:

" I am totally insecure. I am outcome dependent and constantly analyzing things. "

Moving on:

 "Some people may be more flexible (or willing to neglect their wishes in order to be with somebody..."

So, what would YOU "neglect" (you probably mean deny) in order to build a relationship with someone. You will find, OP, that one always has to negotiate. That's how reasonable people operate. 

[Batya33]

Just now, LaHermes said:

Tell me, OP, you ever heard of "black and white thinking"?

Definition: (anything here sound familiar to you?

"Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism."

Yes. So pets are a different story because that's like the children discussion -pets depending on what type can be a huge responsibility, some people are allergic or don't want pets around children, etc - that's far more typical of a dealbreaker.  

[bbogdanov]

18 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

I agree with what everyone else wrote about how you behaved.  And also agree with what LaHermes mentioned about her behavior.  So I'm not going to repeat it.

I don't think sharing physical space is a test to decide whether to marry someone.  I wouldn't have married someone who insisted on it as some sort of test (and as I wrote in my situation it would have been a disaster in that it would have bred false expectations about living together since our living situation less than 3 months after marriage was him, me, our newborn and alllll of our newborn's stuff in a one bedroom apartment. 

3 months after that a move to a bigger apartment same city, 3 months after that my move to his apartment/our home in our new city. Living together just the two of us before marriage would have had no relevance at all to what we had to do to live together as married parents of a newborn.  We spent lots of time at each other's places though and went on lots of vacations and traveled a ton together including internationally so we certainly learned a lot about each other.

People don’t test each other with that. They just do it because of themselves - to see if they can be with the other person. However much time you spend at each other’s places, travel, go to vacations or whatever - it will never be like living together under a roof. I disagree with you here.

[bbogdanov]

24 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Well you did ask this earlier.

Glad to see you have now included "both genders". 

And you say and this is YOUR prerogative:

"For me living together before anything serious IS a prerequisite, "

By the way spending a night now and then at the BF/GF's home does not mean "living together".   Living together is when you and she live full time under one roof. 

You remark:

"I’d like to have a girlfriend and someone to share my life with but I won’t do anything for it."

Meaning?

That’s my opinion, too - two people living full time under one roof. That’s what living together is, I fully agree.

By that last sentence (my broken english is responsible here  ) I wanted to say that although I want to have a SO in my life, it’s not an end in itself (I hope the translator has found the correct phrase). I won’t accept or do everything just to be with a woman.

[LaHermes]

7 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I won’t accept or do everything just to be with a woman.

Very well. Then you need to set out clearly your list (comprehensive) of what you will not accept, and less so negotiate, and make sure that the present (or any future date) reads it in full and states that she has read and understood.  Example: no pets, never ever leave a single sock or other small item on the floor for more than 5 minutes, ...what else have you got to add?

[bbogdanov]

22 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Some people won't care.  Most people I know would not tolerate anyone telling them they had to live in that person's home and no other place.  Or in that specific neighborhood.  With rare exception.  For example the person has to live with his elderly or disabled parent or relative who he cares for and that person cannot be moved. Or children are involved and school districts, and it's their home too.  But then the person sees that the first time she or he goes to the home - that it involves others' living situations. 

What you are asking for is highly unusual because it's "I like where I live and I won't move for a significant other/spouse so if you don't want to live in this place we're wrong together."  And your choice.  But since it is highly unusual and comes off as highly rigid  I would state this up front -as soon as possible after a few dates at the latest.  

 

I explained it already - I rented this place couple of months ago and I can’t just leave it because I’ve found a girlfriend. I like the place, it is financially appropriate to me and I have some responsibility to the landlords. Not speaking of all the baggage and things like that.

She lives at her sister’s place but it’s not unusual or rigid if she wants to live in the same neighbourhod (which, btw is a mile away from mine, they are next to each other) because of the subway and the travel convenience? I start to wonder how people in my neighbourhood are living and going to work or to other parts of town… 

[bbogdanov]

25 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Tell me, OP, you ever heard of "black and white thinking"?

Definition: (anything here sound familiar to you?

"Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism."

I have heard of it. Can you be more specific?

[boltnrun]

26 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

What has insecurity in common with that? I don’t understand your point exactly.

I have some things I am not open to negotiating (like having pets, for example). I think it’s normal and that’s why two people can be together or not. Some people may be more flexible (or willing to neglect their wishes in order to be with somebody), others - not.

Never have I said my friends are my housemates, where did you get that from?? I am living all alone.

I misunderstood your living situation. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

But that makes it even more puzzling why you won't live elsewhere. I presume you'd be open to a compromise where you two live somewhere that's convenient to the both of you, correct?

[LaHermes]

2 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I start to wonder how people in my neighbourhood are living and going to work or to other parts of town… 

You would be amazed OP. There is nothing odd or unusual about thousands of people who have to commute longer or shorter distances to work.  Often they may not have a choice.  I know of people who commute two hours to work, others an hour, some less. However, your GF does have a choice. 

 

[bbogdanov]

25 minutes ago, Batya33 said:

Yes. So pets are a different story because that's like the children discussion -pets depending on what type can be a huge responsibility, some people are allergic or don't want pets around children, etc - that's far more typical of a dealbreaker.  

I just gave an example that is a dealbreaker for me (I hate pet hair, smell, etc.). The living place issue may be not so rigid in the future, but for now I won’t move out (I explained my reasons several times already). 

[LaHermes]

2 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

28 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Definition: (anything here sound familiar to you?

"Splitting (also called black-and-white thinking or all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together the dichotomy of both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism."

I have heard of it. Can you be more specific?

Is the definition not specific enough for you? Did you even read the definition.  Do you recognise anything about yourself in that definition? You do seem to engage to some extent in black and white thinking. 

[bbogdanov]

9 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Very well. Then you need to set out clearly your list (comprehensive) of what you will not accept, and less so negotiate, and make sure that the present (or any future date) reads it in full and states that she has read and understood.  Example: no pets, never ever leave a single sock or other small item on the floor for more than 5 minutes, ...what else have you got to add?

Those thing become known with time passing by, no need to be sarcastic 😉

[LaHermes]

No sarcasm. I am being direct. It was you who said "no pets", and people leaving dirty socks around the place.   I cannot imagine filing for divorce on the grounds of "dirty" socks being left on the floor. 

So, trying a different tack:

What do you like/love about this woman?  And what does she like/love about you?  I am asking this on the basis (assumed) that she is in agreement with your ultimatums on a variety of matters.

Oh, and just to enquire.  What, if any, ultimatums did she give you.  Did she state strongly what she wants and doesn't want?

[boltnrun]

As for the insecurity issue, you were anxious and fearful because she wasn't texting "How are you?" every day but you're willing to lose her over a hypothetical situation that may or may not happen in the future. So my impression is perhaps you think you have the upper hand now because she seems to really like you so you feel comfortable making demands.

I'm interested to know how this will play out. You already don't like how she responds to ultimatums (you think she was sulky and "childish"). 

[bbogdanov]

5 minutes ago, boltnrun said:

I misunderstood your living situation. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

But that makes it even more puzzling why you won't live elsewhere. I presume you'd be open to a compromise where you two live somewhere that's convenient to the both of you, correct?

No problem.

I will be open to us living somewhere convenient for both of us but maybe in the future. I rented this place couple of months ago and I can’t just leave it because I’ve found a girlfriend. I like the place, it is financially appropriate to me and I have some responsibility to the landlords. Not speaking of all the baggage and things like that. We know each other for couple of months and I can’t just move out to another place with her.

Imagine a scenario - we don’t get along well and break up after a while. She can always go back to her sister’s place (for free) while I would have lost the place that I like and which is close to my friends. I have to look for another housing which is a pain in the *ss, it will take time, more money (I pay below average now) and in the meantime I have to be at my parents house. I may like this girl but the potential loss will be too big from a practical point of view. It’s too early.

[bbogdanov]

12 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

You would be amazed OP. There is nothing odd or unusual about thousands of people who have to commute longer or shorter distances to work.  Often they may not have a choice.  I know of people who commute two hours to work, others an hour, some less. However, your GF does have a choice. 

 

Yeah, that’s what I told her and she got upset. Not explicitly, but I hinted that she had a choice. If she’s not comfortable with a long travelling to work, we cannot live together now. I too have a choice and I explained it in my previous posts.

[bbogdanov]

12 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

Is the definition not specific enough for you? Did you even read the definition.  Do you recognise anything about yourself in that definition? You do seem to engage to some extent in black and white thinking. 

Not the definition, I read it. I wanted to point me to a specific instance of this type of thinking so we can find what’s in between those extremes.

[LaHermes]

Truth to tell, OP, I am not presaging a great outcome for this intended relationship. 

5 minutes ago, bbogdanov said:

I may like this girl but the potential loss will be too big from a practical point of view.

 

[LaHermes]

1 minute ago, bbogdanov said:

I wanted to point me to a specific instance of this type of thinking

Try not to be obtuse, OP. Look to yourself. Your thinking is all to often black and white. Work it out for yourself.  Then again, as has so often been suggested here and which you refuse to take on board, consult a therapist.

[bbogdanov]

11 minutes ago, LaHermes said:

No sarcasm. I am being direct. It was you who said "no pets", and people leaving dirty socks around the place.   I cannot imagine filing for divorce on the grounds of "dirty" socks being left on the floor. 

So, trying a different tack:

What do you like/love about this woman?  And what does she like/love about you?  I am asking this on the basis (assumed) that she is in agreement with your ultimatums on a variety of matters.

Oh, and just to enquire.  What, if any, ultimatums did she give you.  Did she state strongly what she wants and doesn't want?

The thing with the socks was exaggeration. The point was that once people are living under one roof full time, many things become a problem and seemingly trivial things can be the last straw.

She is not in agreement with any ultimatums, we haven’t discussed such things. She hasn’t given any ultimatums and I don’t know what she wants and what she doesn’t.