Hot Mess Proposal

[ThatwasThen]

This is real. And honestly, it sounds like pretty much most other marriages out here, except I guess I can at least be thankful he told me what he was about ahead of time. I see so many men on their "you're the only one" stuff at the altar, but screw everything that moves during the marriage after.

 

I just wonder if an open marriage might be a better and more realistic option. I wonder if the marriage itself is the thing that I really want vs complete and total fidelity.

 

Hmm. I have questions.

 

I don't mean to offend, but that statement makes you sound either desperate or codependent in nature. You are contemplating tearing down a personal boundary to accomodate a flake.

 

Truth is, I don’t think either of you know exactly what you want. And that’s okay! What you do know is that you’re drawn to each other, pretty nuts about each other, and you’d like to explore that more. So, if you can make a little room for that without going nuts, why not?

People who have an end dating goal of getting married to a man that wants the same thing is going to have a hard time romantically and by being able to maintain a long haul relationship with that kind of fly by night dogma.

 

If you just want to be a serial dater who enjoys things until the new relationship energy wears off, then I say "have at it."

[ThatwasThen]

This is real. And honestly, it sounds like pretty much most other marriages out here,

 

Wow, what a jaded conception you have of marriage. Maybe you are better off with a philanderer since you think most men are promiscuous and incapable of being loyal!

 

The chances are quite high that you are going to keep going with your particular philanderer since your ongoing posts point towards that conclusion. I wish you luck in changing the essence that is you to be able to accept sharing him with others.

 

Google "compersion" and read how other poly people deal with possessiveness and jealousy. Jealousy is a type of energy after all so you might as well learn how to channel it productively.

 

Good luck.

[superfan]

I wouldn't wait around. If he's poly that won't change and nor should it. Being polyamorus is no different than any other lifestyle choice people make and in many cases it's not something they either can or want to change.

 

Poly relationships can be very successful with other poly people who know and understand the lifestyle. I have many friends who are poly and in happy strong relationships - in some cases marriages with their primary partner and other side relationships.

 

This guy told you who he was. You are not looking for ethical non monogamy and that's perfectly fine. It's not for you just like monogamy is not for him. You are fundamentally incompatible which is a shame but I don't think anything can be done to change that.

 

I would take his proposal with a grain of salt. Anybody who is truly poly will not be able to change so easily. Thinking he will is foolish especially given how old he is. You might not think the age difference matters but if nothing else it's given him ample time to figure out who he is and what he wants and doesn't want. That's unlikely to change in a month

 

I think you're better off leaving this guy and starting fresh.

 

And no, not all guys sleep with tons of women before settling down. My husband didn't feel the need to do that.

 

When someone shows you who they are, trust that.

[Seraphim]

True, my husband only slept with one other person before me.

[nyghts628]

I don't mean to offend, but that statement makes you sound either desperate or codependent in nature. You are contemplating tearing down a personal boundary to accomodate a flake.

 

People who have an end dating goal of getting married to a man that wants the same thing is going to have a hard time romantically and by being able to maintain a long haul relationship with that kind of fly by night dogma.

 

If you just want to be a serial dater who enjoys things until the new relationship energy wears off, then I say "have at it."

 

This post is going to repond to both of your responses.

 

1. You don't offend me at all. Your opinion is your opinion. :-) But honestly, it's really not my fault that I have these views of marriage. I pull my reality from what I've seen and what I see; I draw my conclusions from what IS, not from what I hope things to be. I don't go by emotion and fluffy Disney princess wishes and unrealistic concepts of true love; I go by facts, statistics, and draw my conclusions from what I see in the world around me. And what I've seen is a LOT of infidelity and a lot of divorce.

 

2. That doesn't mean that I still don't believe in marriage or fidelity. I DO, in fact. I'm just really realistic about folks' capacity to remain faithful for 10, 20, 30, or even 40 years at a time. It's not a personal defect; it's just human nature and life to develop attraction, feelings, or sexual desires for others who are NOT your mate, and many of us (not most, but enough) actually act on these desires. Again, this doesn't mean men (and women) who cheat are bad people. We are all just *human*. You can fault me for living in that reality all you like, but it's the reality that has formed my opinion on the matter, and it is living in that reality which will allow me to employ real logic when dealing with the differences between emotion (love) and institutions (marriage). Having said that...

 

3. You asked why I want to be married. To be real? I do not marry for love. Love is a glue and a foundation, but it is not enough. For me to consider marrying a man, he needs to be a good provider, make good money (and be able to keep it and grow it), be a good person/kind, a good role model, a good father, and steeped in his masculine energy (such that the former requirements are more likely to be met). That is literally all I require for marriage. Love is not a primary factor, though it IS there and it IS important. (Honestly, I was born in the wrong culture; I should have been born in the Indian culture with arranged marriages, because my personality is better suited for such things.)

 

So if I sound jaded or damaged or broken to you because I don't balk at the idea that most men like variety (and are only as faithful as their options), please know that I've arranged my life in a way that such a "defect" will not pose any opposition in the least to my marriage prospects. Fidelity is super important to me (more for health/time/energy/money/resource allocations reasons than anything else), but other factors weigh in here.

 

Yes, I sound a little cold. Superficial. Calculated. "Damaged". Etcetera. But the key to the enjoyment of life, for me, is to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. As far as marriage is concerned, I've got that sort of preparation pretty much in the bag. And for whoever my future husband is, he is lucky: I might take a jaded view on his capacity to stay faithful, but that will never stop me from loving him to pieces and being the best wife I can be.

 

Still. I really appreciate your feedback and will consider all your points as I go forward! xoxo

[nyghts628]

I don't mean to offend, but that statement makes you sound either desperate or codependent in nature. You are contemplating tearing down a personal boundary to accomodate a flake.

 

People who have an end dating goal of getting married to a man that wants the same thing is going to have a hard time romantically and by being able to maintain a long haul relationship with that kind of fly by night dogma.

 

If you just want to be a serial dater who enjoys things until the new relationship energy wears off, then I say "have at it."

 

Ah, I'm not sure that's a really fair assessment. "Seeing how things go" vs. being robotically rigid about love doesn't foretell a future of doom, lol. Sometimes, life really does need to take its course, and that's really okay. You act as though everyone slots themselves into ONE specific dating track and that's who they are for the entire time they're playing the field. As though folks who are now looking for marriage weren't out sleeping around once upon a time and vice versa. People change, their needs change, love is fluid, and life is gray. ::shrug::

 

Your points are valid, but I wanted to chime in on that.

[Seraphim]

So does he make good money and can he keep it?

[nyghts628]

If you have a dismal view of marriage why bother with it?

 

Not dismal. Realistic. You seem to assume that marriage should be a symbol of love. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I don't make that assumption. Love is important, but I'm far more calculating about marriage and its utility.

[Seraphim]

I could never marry for just money. Women should know how to make their own.

[nyghts628]

So does he make good money and can he keep it?

 

YUP. Lol. Luckily, he's a pretty amazing and sweet person too, though. So bonus!

[nyghts628]

I could never marry for just money. Women should know how to make their own.

 

I DO know how to make my own. As a matter of fact, I have 3 degrees and my own business (which I'd be running from home, as a kept housewife). ;-)

 

But that has nothing to do with what he should be doing and providing as a man. Sorry, boo, but just because a generation before me decided that we should sweat it out in the workplace next to men doesn't mean I have to join the masses. I love feminism because it gives me CHOICE. It's supposed to liberate us, not force us to change one tyranny for another. If I decide to rest in my femininity and let my man take the lead, I think that's fine. And if it's not working for me, well luckily, modern society has seen it fit to give me an out.

 

As a woman, we really CAN have it all. You just need to know how to work your stuff!

 

P.S. Never said I was marrying the man JUST for his money. I was pretty clear on the fact that I love him to pieces too! It's a pretty ideal situation for both of us, imo.

[Seraphim]

My name is not , boo. 🙄

[nyghts628]

My name is not , boo. 🙄

 

I was just being affectionate and friendly, Seraphim. "Boo" is a term of affection. You seem a little salty, though, and I'm not sure why. Have I rubbed you the wrong way?

[mustlovedogs]

I was just being affectionate and friendly, Seraphim. "Boo" is a term of affection. You seem a little salty, though, and I'm not sure why. Have I rubbed you the wrong way?

 

Boo is condescending the way you used it.

 

Your last post was condescending and so is this one.

[nyghts628]

Boo is condescending the way you used it.

 

Your last post was condescending and so is this one.

 

That’s not at all how I intended it. If you review my entire thread, you can see how I’m doing my best to be thankful, grateful, and courteous to folks who are giving their time to my question; I even do this with those who are armchair psychoanalyzing me on here, mostly because such things come with the ENA territory. Using boo is literally how I talk, and I always mean it affectionately. To be real, though, if you want to talk condescension, Seraphim was the one who was being judgmental of my lifestyle choices, and I’m literally doing my best to stay above the fray. Yes, she sounded “salty” and I questioned her about it because I felt her response was a little unwarranted (and unrelated to my other points).

 

I find it a little astounding that one can come and condescend to my lifestyle choices, but then would bristle over getting an equal and opposite reaction... which isn’t even what I was trying to do. Lol. Seriously. I’m not ever going to get into the gutter with anyone on ENA; it’s just not my style.

 

That’s my POV. Sorry for offending you two. Still, if it’s all right, I’d also like to stick to the subject at hand.

[mustlovedogs]

I was just pointing out you seemed condescending.

 

And seraphim didn’t seem insulting to me. Rather she said women “should know” - she did not imply you “do not know”

 

So marrying for money ie not knowing how to make your own money is what she advised against.

[nyghts628]

I was just pointing out you seemed condescending.

 

And seraphim didn’t seem insulting to me. Rather she said women “should know” - she did not imply you “do not know”

 

So marrying for money ie not knowing how to make your own money is what she advised against.

 

Ok! that’s understandable. Well from my view, rhetorically, unless one speaks in the conditional (I.e. “The train should be here in about five minutes“), the word “should” indicates judgment. Which is why psychologists and the like have coined terms like “don’t ‘should’ on people”. But honestly, I’m really not tripping out over it. I really don’t have a dog in this fight. With online forums and online communication, one’s mileage will vary. ::shrug:: lol

 

I explained my stance, and I hope it came off as unbiased and clear this time.

[itsallgrand]

I guess I don't really understand why you want marriage since-

You provide for yourself already. Be a house lady then !

You don't see marriage as about love.

You don't see fidelity as realistic

 

I mean, if you'd like a business partner, mixing sex with that isn't necessary??

[Hollyj]

Why are you attending grad school if you want to be a housewife?

 

You agreed to marry someone you have only been dating three months? That's nuts! You haven't met his family, either.

 

Are you in a rush to marry? Is this why you would accept a proposal from an admitted commit phobe?

 

This has disaster written all over it. Did you ever consider your kids in this equation. i think not.

 

Your judgement is very poor.

[nyghts628]

I guess I don't really understand why you want marriage since-

You provide for yourself already. Be a house lady then !

You don't see marriage as about love.

You don't see fidelity as realistic

 

I mean, if you'd like a business partner, mixing sex with that isn't necessary??

 

Because I WANT to be married, lol! Why do most other women want marriage, and why are my reasons unacceptable? On a different note, do you have any insight on the question I posed in my original post?

[nyghts628]

Why are you attending grad school if you want to be a housewife?

 

You agreed to marry someone you have only been dating three months? That's nuts! You haven't met his family, either.

 

Are you in a rush to marry? Is this why you would accept a proposal from an admitted commit phobe?

 

This has disaster written all over it. Did you ever consider your kids in this equation. i think not.

 

Your judgement is very poor.

 

1. I attend graduate school because I love being educated, smart, and sophisticated. I love being challenged and learning new things and growing intellectually. Has little to do with my wanting to be married or not.

 

2. I haven't accepted his proposal. I thought I was clear about that in my original post, but I'll double check on the language. I told him, I'm not making any decisions until I see more.

 

3. Not in a rush. Please see #2 above.

 

4. Again, please see #2 above. My child has been thoroughly considered, and so has my well-being. Hence the "wait and see" philosophy.

 

5. Um, thanks? I thought that by NOT accepting his proposal and instead seeing where this goes, that my judgment was actually pretty sound, but... allrighty. Lol. I think we have our wires crossed.

[Hollyj]

This is real. And honestly, it sounds like pretty much most other marriages out here, except I guess I can at least be thankful he told me what he was about ahead of time. I see so many men on their "you're the only one" stuff at the altar, but screw everything that moves during the marriage after.

 

I just wonder if an open marriage might be a better and more realistic option. I wonder if the marriage itself is the thing that I really want vs complete and total fidelity.

 

Hmm. I have questions.

 

You have a very skewed image of men. I don't know any men like this. It seems that you gravitate to and are attracted to men of low character.

[Hollyj]

1. I attend graduate school because I love being educated, smart, and sophisticated. I love being challenged and learning new things and growing intellectually. Has little to do with my wanting to be married or not.

 

2. I haven't accepted his proposal. I thought I was clear about that in my original post, but I'll double check on the language. I told him, I'm not making any decisions until I see more.

 

3. Not in a rush. Please see #2 above.

 

4. Again, please see #2 above. My child has been thoroughly considered, and so has my well-being. Hence the "wait and see" philosophy.

 

5. Um, thanks? I thought that by NOT accepting his proposal and instead seeing where this goes, that my judgment was actually pretty sound, but... allrighty. Lol. I think we have our wires crossed.

 

You never had any intention of using your degree? What a waste. Who pays for this education? Who supports your children?

 

I think there are so many red flags here! Do you believe he will suddenly morph into a monogamous partner?

[nyghts628]

You have a very skewed image of men. I don't know any men like this. It seems that you gravitate to and are attracted to men of low character.

 

Okie dokie! I'll take that up with my therapist. If you have any insight on my original question, though, I'd love to hear it!

[Hollyj]

Okie dokie! I'll take that up with my therapist. If you have any insight on my original question, though, I'd love to hear it!

 

I think you should focus on you and your choices. This is a part of the problem.