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Freckles1029

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Where did she 'insist' on anything? That's what I mean about so much being lost in translation. Not once did I see in her post where she insisted on anything.

 

They're both being indirect with their interactions after the whole drunk thing and I got the impression they simply dropped the subject even though she kinda sorta told him she wanted space because she has feelings even though he kinda sorta said he has feelings too but deffinetely doesn't want a relationship and put the decision in her hands

 

Okay sorry, by "insist" I meant told him she wants nothing to change, to continue seeing each other just as they've been doing.

 

Which she did when she said "we agreed to forget about it for now and even joked on the way home."

 

Which suggests she doesn't give a rat's rear end that he does not want a "relationship." She wants to continue seeing him, just as they have been.

 

Do you think under those circumstances, he should end it?

 

I'm just honestly confused by a few of these responses now, which is why I'm asking.

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IMO. She should end it because she's going to be in limbo and not motivated at all to be in anything serious when she's become addicted to him. You can't have a casual sexual relationship with someone you have more then casual feelings for... you will shred your own heart. We've all read it here enough times to know that.

 

First though she should make herself clear to him that she's developed feelings and if he's not wanting to advance the relationship, then she should break this "thing" they have going on completely off.

 

First she actually has to know what she wants before she can even begin to articulate it.

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IMO. She should end it because she's going to be in limbo and not motivated at all to be in anything serious when she's become addicted to him. You can't have a casual sexual relationship with someone you ave more then casual feelings for... you will shred your own heart. We've all read it here enough times to know that.

 

First though she should make herself clear to him that she's developed feelings and if he's not wanting to advance the relationship, then she should break this "thing" they have going on completely off.

 

First she actually has to know what she wants before she can even begin to articulate it.

 

Agree! Which is why I made the comment how important it is to be *honest* about your feelings and what you want.

 

Otherwise, it "will" come back and bite you (OP) in the a** eventually.

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Okay sorry, by "insist" I meant told him she wants nothing to change, to continue seeing each other just as they've been doing.

 

Which she did when she said "we agreed to forget about it for now and even joked on the way home."

 

Which suggests she doesn't give a rat's rear end that he does not want a "relationship." She wants to continue seeing him, just as they have been.

 

Do you think under those circumstances, he should end it?

 

I'm just honestly confused by a few of these responses now, which is why I'm asking.

 

I don't think it's that she doesn't care one way or the other, I think she cares very much, I think she's being indirect out of fear of rejection and choosing to live with the hope that eventually he will want what she wants.

 

I wouldn't say he's flat out using her, in fact I think there are some feelings there as he admitted to, I think for whatever reason he is keeping her at an arms length and even though he states he has no intention of being in an actual relationship with her he is actively keeping her in his world and in his daily life which is far different from say a booty call situation where it's wham bam thank you ma'am.

 

So in this situation I think it's unfair to place all the blame on the OPer, I think they both played an active role in blurring the lines of their arrangement.

 

Is he required to end things? No as I said before, since she's the one who wants the relationship and is developing feelings it's up to her to stand up for herself and guard her heart.

 

BUT that does not mean, in my humble opinion, that he is free of any responsibility

or blame, as I said, hes a grown man who knows, for whatever reason, he is not on the same page as her. I think a grown adult should avoid pulling people in to deal with their baggage, I think it's selfish when people do that, which is why I'm against rebounding or jumping into relationships without bothering to fix your issues.

 

As I keep saying, someone's gotta be the adult here.

 

This is a big fat inferno of miscommunication, lack of boundaries, fear and commitmentphobia all rolled into one and they're both holding matches.

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The guy I mentioned had "feelings" for me. He told me he "cared" about me as a person and that he "liked" me. But as far as wanting a committed, boyfriend and girlfriend relationship with me? No.

 

He was happy to continue on. I knew it would hurt me to do so. So I decided to end it.

 

Sure, since he said he "cared" about and "liked" me, I could have held on because I could have told myself "See! He says he likes and cares about me! Plus, he does 'couple-y' stuff with me!" But I knew it was up to me to look out for myself, and I couldn't blame him if I chose to continue.

 

Should he have stepped away? Why? He had been very clear. Knowing I had feelings didn't mean he had to be the one to end it when he was the one who had been honest. It was up to me to do so...step away, that is.

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@figureitoit, thanks for clarifying, well said.

 

And agree with your assessment, which has actually been my stance too, pretty much from the get go.

 

Especially pertaining to to his perceived commitment/relationship issues, and hers as well.

 

And taking responsibility for those issues and behaving with *honesty* and integrity.

 

But your entire post was spot on imho!

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@ Jibralta (and whomever else wants to chime in), do you think he should take responsibility for ending the relationship even though OP insists on continuing it?

 

If I was in his shoes, I would be less ambiguous with my behavior. Either of them can end the relationship, but that's not the only solution.

 

You still are by the way.

 

I'm not. But if that's how you see it, fine.

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The guy I mentioned had "feelings" for me. He told me he "cared" about me as a person and that he "liked" me. But as far as wanting a committed, boyfriend and girlfriend relationship with me? No.

 

He was happy to continue on. I knew it would hurt me to do so. So I decided to end it.

 

Sure, since he said he "cared" about and "liked" me, I could have held on because I could have told myself "See! He says he likes and cares about me! Plus, he does 'couple-y' stuff with me!" But I knew it was up to me to look out for myself, and I couldn't blame him if I chose to continue.

 

Should he have stepped away? Why? He had been very clear. Knowing I had feelings didn't mean he had to be the one to end it when he was the one who had been honest. It was up to me to do so...step away, that is.

Agree with this mindset completely.
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I wouldn't have entered into the thing to begin with!

Either would I have. But if I were her, I'd dig deep to see if I actually would want something more with him and if I did then I'd ask for it and if he wasn't willing, then I'd stop all contact/communication with him so I could reach the stage of indifference to him. I certainly wouldn't be joking about it the next day and leave it in the ambiguity they've left themselves in.

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Why does this happen so much? Men AND women agree to be FWB's, then do all this extra stuff that leads to confusion. If it is JUST sex, don't talk about feelings, don't text every day, don't have long conversations, don't cuddle, etc. If it's sex, let it be sex.

 

Now, you might be saying "That stuff already happened so this advice doesn't help me NOW." But yes it does, and here's why:

 

You both agreed to drop it, right? So DROP IT. It doesn't matter WHY he cried, or what he SECRETLY feels. What matters is what he DOES about it and what he tells you he WANTS. If he says he wants to keep it at sex, keep it at sex. If he's agreed to back off, that's what you ASKED for, right? OK then. What's the problem? Talk less, text less, f**k less. Mixed signals are b******t. He acts like a boyfriend but says you're just a FB. You don't have time for that. You can get sex from ANYWHERE, so why put up with the confusion? Tell him his actions and words need to line up. If they don't, find another "friend" to play with. One who can give you exactly what you're looking for. Whether it be sex, a relationship, or both. But from what I've seen, you can't handle a FWB situation.

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Why does this happen so much? Men AND women agree to be FWB's, then do all this extra stuff that leads to confusion. If it is JUST sex, don't talk about feelings, don't text every day, don't have long conversations, don't cuddle, etc. If it's sex, let it be sex.

 

Now, you might be saying "That stuff already happened so this advice doesn't help me NOW." But yes it does, and here's why:

 

You both agreed to drop it, right? So DROP IT. It doesn't matter WHY he cried, or what he SECRETLY feels. What matters is what he DOES about it and what he tells you he WANTS. If he says he wants to keep it at sex, keep it at sex. If he's agreed to back off, that's what you ASKED for, right? OK then. What's the problem? Talk less, text less, f**k less. Mixed signals are b******t. He acts like a boyfriend but says you're just a FB. You don't have time for that. You can get sex from ANYWHERE, so why put up with the confusion? Tell him his actions and words need to line up. If they don't, find another "friend" to play with. One who can give you exactly what you're looking for. Whether it be sex, a relationship, or both. But from what I've seen, you can't handle a FWB situation.

 

And I think a true situation where close friends decide to have sex means that the close friends are still close -so they likely will text/chat/hang out etc. It doesn't have to be "just sex" - it's just that the two people have decided that they will have sex when they feel like it. And if they weren't good friends but just people who met and decided to have a sexual arrangement then it's not "FWB" -they're sex partners and they may also become friendly aside from having sex. Each of the adults is responsible for knowing his/her own boundaries and if either person wants more that is his/her responsibility as to what to do about those feelings, if anything.

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And I think a true situation where close friends decide to have sex means that the close friends are still close -so they likely will text/chat/hang out etc. It doesn't have to be "just sex" - it's just that the two people have decided that they will have sex when they feel like it. And if they weren't good friends but just people who met and decided to have a sexual arrangement then it's not "FWB" -they're sex partners and they may also become friendly aside from having sex. Each of the adults is responsible for knowing his/her own boundaries and if either person wants more that is his/her responsibility as to what to do about those feelings, if anything.

 

This is 100% true. The reason I suggested she ONLY leave it at sex is because it seems like the daily contact is what made her feelings grow in the first place. I assumed they weren't friends to begin with (at least not close friends) but she just called it FWB because many can't differentiate between an FWB and a straight FB. (You can, though, so I agree with you.) But if ANYONE can't keep their feelings in check when having sex with a person they see or talk to regularly, it's a bad idea to have that type of relationship. However, if both parties can do it EASILY, then it's fine. It gets messy though when one person wants more, OR they BOTH do, but only one person is saying so.

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This is 100% true. The reason I suggested she ONLY leave it at sex is because it seems like the daily contact is what made her feelings grow in the first place. I assumed they weren't friends to begin with (at least not close friends) but she just called it FWB because many can't differentiate between an FWB and a straight FB. (You can, though, so I agree with you.) But if ANYONE can't keep their feelings in check when having sex with a person they see or talk to regularly, it's a bad idea to have that type of relationship. However, if both parties can do it EASILY, then it's fine. It gets messy though when one person wants more, OR they BOTH do, but only one person is saying so.

Yes. And the contact didn’t make her feelings grow. She chose to continue it even though her reaction was to feel more attached to him. I’m big on personal responsibility here. Yes. If this particular person wants a sexual arrangement she probably needs to compartmentalize more and perhaps more than others. Also she chose to get drink and often choosing to get drunk also is a choice to risk more attachment or oversharing.

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Why does this happen so much? Men AND women agree to be FWB's, then do all this extra stuff that leads to confusion. If it is JUST sex, don't talk about feelings, don't text every day, don't have long conversations, don't cuddle, etc. If it's sex, let it be sex.

 

Now, you might be saying "That stuff already happened so this advice doesn't help me NOW." But yes it does, and here's why:

 

You both agreed to drop it, right? So DROP IT. It doesn't matter WHY he cried, or what he SECRETLY feels. What matters is what he DOES about it and what he tells you he WANTS. If he says he wants to keep it at sex, keep it at sex. If he's agreed to back off, that's what you ASKED for, right? OK then. What's the problem? Talk less, text less, f**k less. Mixed signals are b******t. He acts like a boyfriend but says you're just a FB. You don't have time for that. You can get sex from ANYWHERE, so why put up with the confusion? Tell him his actions and words need to line up. If they don't, find another "friend" to play with. One who can give you exactly what you're looking for. Whether it be sex, a relationship, or both. But from what I've seen, you can't handle a FWB situation.

 

Amen to this!

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Ladies it is stringing along if youre spending time together, communicating daily, crying together but then wanting distance at your convienience because 'it's just sex'. Give the girl some basic respect here, if this was just a booty call he wouldn't be in contact with her unless it was for a late night romp. He is playing mind games and it's wrong. Just because she's a willing participant doesn't allieviate his role. I'd bet a shiny new quarter he knows exactly how's she feels, any responsible adult would recognize that and walk away. This unessesary correcting is the epitome of one standing on a high horse.

 

OPer that does not alleviate your role in this situation. Very, very few can handle FWB, be honest with yourself, was it mutual or did you accept the scraps he was giving you because it was better than nothing and you hoped for more? You can't go into a FWB type situation with ulterior motives, you'll always end up with the short end of the stick, even if you didn't start out with ulterior motives you now have them which is a recipe for heartbreak. He is being clear with his words, although his actions do not match so your best bet is to get out now.

 

Not all FWB situations are sex and leave. Many people behave like they were in a relationship but without the title and the committement (I find this dangerous btw). He's been clear and honest to her since the beginning. Yes, maybe he likes her, and likes to be with her and even wants to play boyfriend and girlfriend with her without the title, but she knows this. She now needs to choose what to do with this information, because he's telling her all she needs to know.

 

As someone who's been in a similar situation I'd say to end this, because when one of the fwb catches feelings, the whole situation becomes messy and hurtful. Besides, you don't want to be hurt when they find someone with whom they actually want to have a relationship with.

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I don't agree - I typically agree to watch the actions not the words with one exception -when a person says "I don't want a relationship [with you]" or "I am not ready for a relationsnhip [with you]" you listen because the actions that follow should not be interpreted inconsistently with that -in the least.

 

I totally agree with this... if someone tells you "I don't want a relationship (with you... always read "with you" when they say so, even if they don't say that)" or "I'm not ready for a relationship (with you)" believe them. Why would someone who really likes you and wants to have a relationship with you risk to lose you by saying they don't want a relationship? It makes no sense. There's the only instance in which I also think that the words have more weight than the actions. Some people like to act as if they are in a relationship. They like the regular sex, the cuddling, the conversation, the dates... but they don't want to have a commitment with that person for whatever reason. They might even act jealous if the person has something with someone else, but they still don't want a relationship with that person nor will put the effort and when they find someone they want to have a relationship with, they'll simply leave the fwb with no second thoughts. They're emotionally available to meet someone else, while the fwb who caught feelings is not.

 

That's why it becomes confusing when one catches feelings. Because they are living as if they're in a relationship but they're not. We decide to listen what we want to believe in and make excuses, but the reality is that he told her clearly the truth, and everything more weather drunk or sober doesn't erase the fact that he doesn't want a relationship. It's his prerogative not to want so, but it's also the OP's prerogative to take care of herself and end this arrangement that ended up being confusing and messy. If she wants a relationship (which she seems to want), it's better to look somewhere else.

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Not all FWB situations are sex and leave. Many people behave like they were in a relationship but without the title and the committement (I find this dangerous btw). He's been clear and honest to her since the beginning. Yes, maybe he likes her, and likes to be with her and even wants to play boyfriend and girlfriend with her without the title, but she knows this. She now needs to choose what to do with this information, because he's telling her all she needs to know.

 

As someone who's been in a similar situation I'd say to end this, because when one of the fwb catches feelings, the whole situation becomes messy and hurtful. Besides, you don't want to be hurt when they find someone with whom they actually want to have a relationship with.

 

I agree that it's not a specific arrangement -unless the two were close friends first and already hanging out together platonically it just means it's a sexual arrangement. So the sex can happen on its own, after or before hanging out, whenever. I wouldn't even use the term "title" with someone who is conflicted about a sex arrangement she has with someone because to me that implies it's a title - I agree it's about the meaning of the "title" -the commitment. I also think it's fine to act like a couple as long as both people are honest with themselves that it doesn't mean there is long term potential for a committed romantic relationship. Once you get too far into a discussion of "well let's not put a label on it" or "it's just a label" that leads to self-dishonesty because the person who wants the commitment then tries to rationalize that it's "just" a title/label.

 

I think the honesty with each other happens at the beginning -and should because of STDs - honesty about not wanting a relationship with each other, honesty about STDs, sexual monogamy or not, and a frank discussion about what the plan would be should a pregnancy result. I think it's crucial to be honest if the STD or pregnancy risks change at all. And if the emotions change -if someone feels a certain way and reacts by wanting more, it's crucial that that person be honest with herself or himself and the next time sex is offered to say no (no explanation needed -it's a sexual arrangement -it ends when someone doesn't want to have sex with the other person for whatever reason).

 

Or if the person needs to explain certainly he/she can say "this isn't working for me anymore -I feel like I want us to be a committed couple -if you ever want that you know where to find me" and to walk away then, head high, no anger - staying around and reading tea leaves of signs typically is a recipe for disaster IMO.

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I agree. I was talking more about the fact that some "casual sex arrangements" end up involving people acting like boyfriend and girlfriend (PDA, dates, cuddling, hanging out with each other's friends, conversations and emotionally intimacy, etc) when they're actually not. In this case he expressed that they're not and won't be. But these arrangements where people act like they are in a relationship but they're not, can make things even more confusing. Comfortable to a certain point for the one who doesn't want the relationship, but messy and confusing for the one who catches feelings. But once again, it's all about personal responsibility.

 

As to the rest I totally agree... the best course of action is to break up the arrangement with respect and try to move on. Staying and trying to interprete signs or trying to change their minds will never work. And as to changing their minds, why would they change their mind about wanting a relationship with that person if they can have the same benefits of having one without having to be on one and having to actually commit?

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