I don't know how to interpret my male friend

[suezanna]

I have already used up far too much time and thought over this matter, so much so that I sought out advice from this forum. He began his campaign, or whatever it is, about a month ago, and it has been on my mind off and on, more on, since then. I got used to my ex's behavior and made do, until something happened that shook me enough to change. I was primary caregiver for my terminally ill mother for years until her death shook me enough to change my life. I began volunteering at a horse rescue on weekends and found my passion. My friend came into my life and pretty much forced me into socializing and interacting again - he was so different than anyone I had known, he pretty much shook me into living again. I have been able to become accustomed to hearing and smelling, and seeing and being around a man again. And every single time I expected him to react the way my ex would have, he has not. He was cutting plywood for me and I measured wrong - I hunched my shoulders and cringed as I told him - he responded, "So, we'll cut another piece" - no insults, no anger. He made a crack to his son one day "do that again and I'll punch you in the face" (apparently that's the thing they used to say to each other jokingly - they never actually hit) - and he must have seen the look on my face because he quickly apologized and told me they would never use that expression again, then he called both kids into the kitchen to tell them it was a bad expression and they should stop using it. I've never heard it again. His ex-wife caused some tension between us at one point, saying I was trying to insert myself into "their" family, and he and I had a long discussion about things and I told him some of what I had experienced and he got so upset he made me stop talking (and he needed a couple of days before we could talk again) I have no doubt he cares about me. I care about him. I love his kids. I think I have been alone (intimately) for too long, and the combination of being around an attractive guy who I care about, who cares about me who also seems to be at least interested in talking about sexual things has gotten me thinking. Ten years (20 if you count my horrible relationship) is a long time to go without a hug or a kiss or affection from a man. Perhaps this is the next thing destined to shake me into changed behavior. Either way, something has to change soon because I do not like the limbo I am in. Despite my timidness physically, I am not a shrinking violet when it comes to speaking my mind (on less personal subjects anyway) but I think I am going to talk to him this weekend and I hope to be able to say : I've noticed that you have really increased the sexual comments lately. I don't know if it is just reflective of how you are feeling or if you are trying to hint at something with me specifically. You are not making me uncomfortable, but I am confused. I like you, and I don't want to misunderstand you so they need to either tone down, or you need to be more direct with me.

Good? Bad? I really view it like pulling off a Bandaid. I just need to get to the point and move on.

[Wiseman2]

He's flirting, perhaps to break the ice because he knows you are fragile. He's waiting for you to pick up on the subtleties. Try not to be defensive or put him on the defensive. If you want a relationship with him say so.

I like you, and I don't want to misunderstand you so they need to either tone down, or you need to be more direct with me.

[reinventmyself]

: I've noticed that you have really increased the sexual comments lately. I don't know if it is just reflective of how you are feeling or if you are trying to hint at something with me specifically. You are not making me uncomfortable, but I am confused. I like you, and I don't want to misunderstand you so they need to either tone down, or you need to be more direct with me.

Good? Bad? I really view it like pulling off a Bandaid. I just need to get to the point and move on.

 

Good!

 

. . I flip flop on my advise to you apparently. . lol

It does appear that you care for him and are considering more than just a friendship.

Clarity from him at this point would be helpful.

 

Keep us posted.

I was in a relationship similar to yours. Not as bad.

But I recall this first man I dated, post divorce. I helped him paint his living room one day.

I dropped the hammer on my foot, which was really painful.

When he dove to grasp my foot and caress it, I flinched like a beaten animal. It was a reflex of sorts. My reaction surprised myself.

 

No, I was never physically harmed, but in the same situation my ex h would have smirked, rolled his eyes and told me what an idiot I was for doing it.

 

While he was caressing my foot, I started to cry. Not because it hurt. .well it did, but I was crying because in that moment I realized how I didn't get that compassion from my ex husband. Instead is was an opportunity for him to tear me down further, like he did with any opportunity. I instinctually expected it.

 

I was not accustomed to such minimal decency . . a small taste of it made me cry more. This was a long time ago.

You deal heal. It just takes time.

 

Sorry to derail your thread. I just understand to some extent what you are going through. . .(((hugs))

[ThatwasThen]

I like you, and I don't want to misunderstand you so they need to either tone down, or you need to be more direct with me.

Too vague, too ambiguous and there is no question in there.

[Jibralta]

I've noticed that you have really increased the sexual comments lately. I don't know if it is just reflective of how you are feeling or if you are trying to hint at something with me specifically. You are not making me uncomfortable, but I am confused. I like you, and I don't want to misunderstand you so they need to either tone down, or you need to be more direct with me.

Good? Bad? I really view it like pulling off a Bandaid. I just need to get to the point and move on.

 

I think it's pretty good. Sometimes the best thing after a fall is getting back on the horse.

[suezanna]

Well, things have taken a turn sooner than I expected. Always trust your gut- always trust that .01% keeping you from jumping. I've been up most of the night and now I'm like a zombie at my desk at work.

He called me from work a couple of times yesterday and I could tell he was on-edge, that he was having a bad day. I have always been the person he turns to when he is frustrated to calm him down and get his focus off whatever is bothering him. So we talked around 8AM, then he called again mid-morning to tell me he was going home around noon or 1 (he drives an 18 wheeler for a one of the big freight carriers and the weather had affected volume, so he left early) Apparently when he got home, he decided to go across the street to one of his neighbor's houses - the guy turned his garage into a man cave of sorts, and he always welcomes visitors to hang out. I have never been a fan of idle hanging out and drinking - nothing good can come of it in my opinion. I don't know the employment status over there, but it always seems like someone is hanging out, and again, I'm not a fan. I have made it very clear I am not a fan, and that I think that environment has a negative affect on (Let's call him G, since I'm tired of calling him "my friend"). So anyway, G knows I think it is a bad place and apparently when he went over there yesterday, he must have opened his mouth and said something to that effect - Not sure what exactly, but the guy whose man cave it is, and one of the other neighbor guys who hangs out there apparently decided to grill G about the nature of our relationship and what right did I have to dictate G's behavior? G's problem is that he doesn't know when to shut up. He doesn't know when to shut up telling other people our business, and he doesn't know when to shut up telling ME he told other people our business. So he calls me last night around 7 and I can tell he has something to say. Although he called me, he was acting as if I was somehow interrupting or bothering him. So finally, after a few minutes of stilted conversation, I said, "either tell me what's bothering you or let's hang up. I have to work at 5 in the morning" So he says, "OK, bye" to which I responded, "I'll see you tomorrow" (Mind you, HE had asked me if I was going to spend the weekend at his place a couple of days ago. I do not invite myself over) - So I say, I'll see you tomorrow, and he responds, "I don't know" My stomach dropped. So I said OK and hung up. Almost immediately my phone rings and it's him. "What do you mean OK? Why do you do that? Why don't you ask me why I changed my mind about the tomorrow?" I respond :"Because it's your right to change your mind. You don't owe me any explanations" to which he goes into orbit. "See? See? You NEVER show any emotion! Everything I ever get out of you has to be pulled out of you! We made plans for the weekend and I just changed them without telling you. Without apologizing. Without an explanation! And you say OK?" I was dumbfounded. "It's your house. If you don't want me to come over I won't. I'm not going to force myself into your life." He said he had to go and hung up. An hour later he was at my front door. He does not like to talk about anything important through email or text or phone calls. Important equals face to face, so he showed up on my doorstep.

The Reader's Digest version is this: The "guys" wanted to know what the nature of our relationship is. G has only lived in this place for a year, and he seldom has time to hang out with all the working he does, so the guys really don't know him well. They see my car there at all hours on the weekends and they were interested in whether or not I was his girlfriend or if he was 'getting any'. Now I don't know if it is a guy thing, or just a stupid ass thing or even just a stupid G thing, but rather than think to himself, gee, here is a woman I care about, who trusts me, who loves my kids, who is my shoulder to cry on, who has gotten the sh*t end of the stick from her ex- perhaps I will protect her modesty. Perhaps I will be a gentleman and say "that's personal" or "none of your business" or even "I do fine thanks" and not talk to these guys who would not lift a finger for me if I needed it, to protect the woman who has gotten up at 2AM to help my sorry ass out without even thinking twice about it. Nope. I'm gonna tell them " Nah, not getting any. I'm not into her." (And then be stupid enough to tell me he said this) followed by the guys going on to tell him that I MUST be in love with him if I'm hanging around, and I MUST be hanging around to get any crumbs of attention he may be willing to throw my way (AGAIN he TOLD ME this was said) and that he should be careful because if he doesn't protect himself he'll find himself with me and the kids at Disney World and his single life will be gone. He is a young, good looking guy. He should be with some young chick who he can mold and shape into what he wants her to be, not someone his own age (I'm actually a couple of years older than he is) who will bring him down. So this was such an important, life altering conversation for him (with people he barely knows) that he had to drive 60 miles to my house at 8 at night just to talk face to face. He said the guys have a point and why DO I hang around with him? What do I want from him? Why do I love his kids? Am I trying to get with him? What is my angle? Hello? MY ANGLE? I was soooo pissed off I let him have it with both barrels. "I took yesterday off (Wed) and you - YOU called me 10 times. TEN. I looked at my phone- we talked for almost 4 hours when I added up all the calls - did I call you? No. I go out with my friends ONCE just ONCE in the last 3 months, and you had 3 emergencies that you absolutely HAD to call me for while I was out, and then you practically begged me to come over your place instead of going home that night. Oh yeah, I have a big angle. You talk about sex. ALL. THE. TIME. Have I said anything to you? Have I touched you? Have I initiated any kind of flirting? EVER? You have been so focused on sex and talking about sex and trying to show me porn, and talking about blowjobs and handjobs - that I began thinking that you wanted to be with me! You need to take a long hard look at your own behavior before you start on me. I have been nothing but a lady around you, and I have done nothing but care about you and about your kids and you humiliate me in front of those guys? You let them paint me as some desperate hag waiting for the smallest crumb of your affection when you know damn well that is not the case? Did it make you feel like a big man? Was it worth it? Look around you. Look at the people in your life. Look at your own family. Has anyone had your back the way I have had your back since we met? Ever? Have I asked for anything in return? Did you stop to think that I would have to walk by those guys every time I go to your house and that they will be snickering about me? Did you think about how you were making me look? At all? Did you stop to think about anyone but yourself when you chose to be the big tough guy with people who aren't even your friends? I hope it was worth it. Because you just did something that has changed us forever. You think about that on your long drive home. You think about every call, every text, every email, every time you needed me and I was there for you. You think about your daughter and your son, and how I have treated them. Think about that cold winter morning when your daughter went to see the horses with me and I took the wool socks off my own feet and went barefoot in my boots so her feet would be warmer when she said she was cold. You think about the times I have done things or gone places with your daughter just so that you would have alone time with your son that you crave so badly. You think about what you just lost so that you could look like the tough guy in front of people you don't even know. You always say I am like no one you've ever met. And you're right. And now you don't get to have any of that anymore. So get out of my house and think about that on your ride home.

And now I'm just numb...

[Wiseman2]

Sorry this happened. It seems both of you got a lot of unspoken tension off your chests. And the elephant in the room was finally addressed. From this you know that he's not bf material for you. And perhaps when the crass sexual remarks were made it was time to step way back.

 

Do not contact him and avoid talks until you cool off. Only do things for someone that you want to do. Never be a martyr or mention people's kids in an argument. Try to reflect if the victim feelings from the past are recurring and you unleashed it on him. He doesn't "owe" you anything because you had a bad past. Hopefully you are still getting counselling for that.

So get out of my house and think about that on your ride home.

[reinventmyself]

Uhg. I don't even know what to say.

I might have to process your interaction myself as if it were my own.

I am not condoning it, but the way you described the men in their cave, talking smack like that is pretty typical.

 

His mistake was repeating to you. I don't know much, but he's not very smart in this area. That I know for sure.

 

Having said that, you haven't heard the last of him. I do think he cares. He isn't very good at articulating it and neither are you for that matter.

 

For the meanwhile. . .give this some room to breath.

When you both have a chance to settle down some, remember how much you said you trusted each other and all the other good things about him.

 

That was a major blunder on his part but I think you were both ready to blow it open and find out what's going on inside.

His approach just happened to suck . .big time.

 

came back to add. . His opening line was that he never seems to get a reaction out of you. It looks like he went about it in such a way he

was guaranteed one. Something to think about.

 

( next time break up your text and write in paragraphs :) )

[suezanna]

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about all of it. About losing my temper. About not using paragraph breaks - ( sorry - I was writing and I was thinking it would post if I hit return)

 

I know I said horrible things and I know it was my own past rearing its ugly head. He does not owe me anything because I had a bad relationship. But I do think he owes me a level of respect as someone who has been his friend for 4 years - at least enough respect not to come right out and tell me what his "guy-talk" was about.

 

I'm exhausted, and hurt and angry. Maybe men and women really are not meant to be friends. I told him at the VERY BEGINNING when he kept pushing and pushing to be my friend - let's do this, let's go here, what's your number, and he called me all the time.... I told him "I am broken. I am not interested in a relationship or an FWB situation. I just lost my mother and I had a horrible long-term relationship. If you cannot just be my friend, then I NEED you to leave me alone." He said he wanted to be friends. I kept watching and waiting and listening, but his actions matched his words, so I relaxed. He was safe. He made me feel appreciated. He gave me a place to experience new things - so many things I did not do that normal 18, 22, even 30 year olds do- because I was controlled by my ex and then I was a caregiver for my mother. He laughs every time I do something new because he says it is like watching a child do something for the first time. I let down my guard.

 

Then I allowed myself to think. Then I allowed myself to dream that maybe I could be normal. Maybe things could work the way they are supposed to with someone who knows my quirks and still wants to be around me. I still wasn't looking for a ring or a commitment, just the chance to feel normal, to have a man touch me without hurting me. Someone I could feel free to give a hug to or lay down beside without being afraid.

 

Then he said those things to me- that he told those guys he's not into me - suddenly he had Patrick's face and Patrick's motives, and the words he was using he was using to hurt me with. And the words he had been using to make it seem like he was interested in me turned into taunts like Patrick would use - lulling me into thinking this time - THIS TIME - will be normal. He won't hurt me. But it never came true. He just kept upping his game seeing what else he could do to me - what else I could take.

 

No, I have not seen or heard the last from G. This is eating him up too, I'm sure. But there are certain bells that you cannot un-ring. I cannot un-hear his words, or un-feel how I felt when I heard them.

 

I appreciate everyone's input. I wish I had something like this years ago and maybe I would have gotten out sooner, and maybe I wouldn't be so broken.

 

I hope everyone has a good weekend. I'm driving up north to hug my horse and cry in his mane. There is no therapy quite like mucking for an 1800 pound animal.

 

Sue

[reinventmyself]

I am going to be blunt here.

How long are you going to let your past dictate your future?

 

I so get you (but I am 10 years ahead of you in healing)

At what point are you going to set down your weapons and stop making everyone else pay for the mistakes of someone else?

Your ex has long since moved on, but you are still allowing him the head space to run your life. . . by choice.

 

The goal here isn't so much about finding someone you can trust.

 

The goal here is that you have made it your mission to grow, heal and move past this. . .so much so that you have faith and trust in yourself to

make sound choices on your own behalf.

 

It sounds like you are really good at saying no. This is a good thing. But do you have the guts to say yes, navigate a situation and trust yourself that no matter the outcome, you'll be ok?

 

I've been you. You are hyper vigilant. It's normal considering everything. But don't get stuck here. It's a lonely place to be.

 

If he isn't `into you' in that way. . .you don't seem to want more than his friendship anyway?

Again. . He's wrong for talking about you in crass way. . More wrong for sharing it with you.

But it just seems there is something else going on that neither of you are addressing.

I don't pretend to know what that is.

 

This friendship has been a safe place for you. I didn't require much from you and there was no risk. . . at least you thought

Maybe it's time to rethink this.

[Mari]

...

 

There is no therapy quite like mucking for an 1800 pound animal.

 

Sue

 

I'm sorry this happened and that both of you feel hurt from this. I don't interpret these events the same way as you see them. Most deep friendships remain because there is no possibility of attraction, but for those that do, each person is afraid to lose the friendship by asking for progression. It's even in the question you asked. You don't outright say "I want to date you", you beat around the bush about how he's said some stuff and based on that you're wondering what he wants and that you'd be ok with it. That's not the exciting "I want to be with you!" that people like to hear, but this is what happens when each person is afraid to ask. Same with him. He's not asking because he doesn't even know how you feel. That conversation with his neighbor was an eye opener for him. Why are you two friends for four years? Why does he keep putting in 10 times the effort to see you, why don't you ever pursue him, why isn't he dating someone else that wants to be him? And based on that I think his actions were not to humiliate you or make you feel that you are not worthy, but to see if your actions show if you even care. And I see that when he says "I'm cancelling, aren't you even going to ask why, why doesn't it matter if you can't see me?" He's really asking do you care about him.

 

Repeating that conversation in front of you should be kosher based on what you've said in the past. You said in the past that you don't want a relationship, and that if he did then he should leave you alone. There's no way for him to know that that rule has changed now. The only kosher answer for him is to say those guys, "I don't see her that way". Because based on your response in the past that will keep the friendship going and I don't think he wants to lose you. Unfortunately this is how things pan out for such friendships if both people stay scared. If neither of you musters the courage to explicitly say what you want than this relationship will start fading. He'll feel hurt for trying so hard with you and getting nowhere, and you will feel hurt that why didn't he ask, even though there is a prohibition placed by in the past that prevents him from asking. He will then start dating someone new and she will be the only person he's going to have time for. You never initiated much anyway and so without him pursuing there isn't going to be much of a friendship. You'll just chalk it up to being unlovable and become even more guarded.

 

Or instead, I recommend saying what it is you want. Accept that there's a good chance this relationship will end anyway if he starts dating someone new. Then ask him in a way you'd like to be asked by him. Ask convincingly with options: "I've been friends with you for four years and it's been great, blah blah your great qualities mentioned here, I would like to take this relationship further, when do you think that would be possible for you?" He's either going to say yes, later, or no. And where your friendship is right now, 4 years and hasn't progressed to a relationship, chances are it's going to go in a couple months of him dating someone new.

 

Also, please try to stand up for yourself. Say what you want from this life. If he's saying he's cancelling you need to say you were really looking forward to seeing him, and that you had something important to discuss. If you say "It's your house and your time", it makes it seem you're indifferent to him. People that have been treated poorly assume they are not worthy of love and in turn make the people that pursue them feel that they are not worthy of love. They inflict their problems on others that love them. By pursuing you for 4 years and being the initiator 10 to 1, it is going to make him feel that his love is unworthy of acceptance. You can correct this now by saying what it is you want and by standing up for how you feel about him.

 

Finally, based on everything you've said about this, it seems to me both of you are in love with each other and not as friends. I wouldn't be surprised if he booked a date this weekend, not that he's ready for that but just because he has to think about his kids. He needs someone at his house and if you're not feeling it he has to move forward. I'm telling you this so you don't go into shock if he mentions this and still push forward with saying what it is you want. Whomever he would date would not be better than you, she would not know his kids or have four years of history. Please push forward and if it fails, heal and try again with someone new. The horses are great but they may not have the same lifespan or offer the level of companionship another caring person can.

[reinventmyself]

Well said Mari,

 

This is my take on it, though I couldn't have articulated as well as you just did!

 

->noticing Mari is a man.

I think this is advise to seriously consider.

[Mari]

Well said Mari,

 

This is my take on it, though I couldn't have articulated as well as you just did!

 

->noticing Mari is a man.

I think this is advise to seriously consider.

 

Thanks for the agreement :).

[abitbroken]

I think why this hurts is because there is truth in what he says --- you ARE there for the breadcrumbs and attention -you keep telling us the signs where you think that he wants more, etc, and interpreting his every move. You are NOT just 'a good friend' in your eyes - you want more. And now your bluff has been called. No female friend of a divorced guy acts mothering to his kids like that, scoops him off the floor of the bar, etc...

 

I think you should really look up "codependency" because part of what you said "i do this all for you - i took the socks off my feet" is a bit martyr-y.

 

You didn't answer his questions at all - only listed things you 'do for him'. You never said why you do these things unless i missed it "ie, i feel you are a close friend of mine, and that is why i do it" But maybe you said it and you sort of missed it.

 

I have had situations where guys had told me "they were asking what we are..." as an excuse to try to fish to see if i would be receptive to "us" -- as a way to have the conversation. I don't think so in this case, but you never know. I do think he friendzoned you because you really show no emotions towards him. Your love language is clearly "acts of service" and you are doing so much for him but he is not reading it as love interest.

 

Honestly, if there was a chance that you would never talk to him again --- i would have just put it all on the table and told him how you feel because at least if he walked out the door and you never saw him again, there would be no ambiguity.

 

I agree with the advice that you need to sort yourself out and not date. you have female friends -- but you are putting 100% of your energy into a guy who is not into you and i am glad in a way this happened so you move on from this.

[abitbroken]

I'm sorry this happened and that both of you feel hurt from this. I don't interpret these events the same way as you see them. Most deep friendships remain because there is no possibility of attraction, but for those that do, each person is afraid to lose the friendship by asking for progression. It's even in the question you asked. You don't outright say "I want to date you", you beat around the bush about how he's said some stuff and based on that you're wondering what he wants and that you'd be ok with it. That's not the exciting "I want to be with you!" that people like to hear, but this is what happens when each person is afraid to ask. Same with him. He's not asking because he doesn't even know how you feel. That conversation with his neighbor was an eye opener for him. Why are you two friends for four years? Why does he keep putting in 10 times the effort to see you, why don't you ever pursue him, why isn't he dating someone else that wants to be him? And based on that I think his actions were not to humiliate you or make you feel that you are not worthy, but to see if your actions show if you even care. And I see that when he says "I'm cancelling, aren't you even going to ask why, why doesn't it matter if you can't see me?" He's really asking do you care about him.

 

Repeating that conversation in front of you should be kosher based on what you've said in the past. You said in the past that you don't want a relationship, and that if he did then he should leave you alone. There's no way for him to know that that rule has changed now. The only kosher answer for him is to say those guys, "I don't see her that way". Because based on your response in the past that will keep the friendship going and I don't think he wants to lose you. Unfortunately this is how things pan out for such friendships if both people stay scared. If neither of you musters the courage to explicitly say what you want than this relationship will start fading. He'll feel hurt for trying so hard with you and getting nowhere, and you will feel hurt that why didn't he ask, even though there is a prohibition placed by in the past that prevents him from asking. He will then start dating someone new and she will be the only person he's going to have time for. You never initiated much anyway and so without him pursuing there isn't going to be much of a friendship. You'll just chalk it up to being unlovable and become even more guarded.

 

Or instead, I recommend saying what it is you want. Accept that there's a good chance this relationship will end anyway if he starts dating someone new. Then ask him in a way you'd like to be asked by him. Ask convincingly with options: "I've been friends with you for four years and it's been great, blah blah your great qualities mentioned here, I would like to take this relationship further, when do you think that would be possible for you?" He's either going to say yes, later, or no. And where your friendship is right now, 4 years and hasn't progressed to a relationship, chances are it's going to go in a couple months of him dating someone new.

 

Also, please try to stand up for yourself. Say what you want from this life. If he's saying he's cancelling you need to say you were really looking forward to seeing him, and that you had something important to discuss. If you say "It's your house and your time", it makes it seem you're indifferent to him. People that have been treated poorly assume they are not worthy of love and in turn make the people that pursue them feel that they are not worthy of love. They inflict their problems on others that love them. By pursuing you for 4 years and being the initiator 10 to 1, it is going to make him feel that his love is unworthy of acceptance. You can correct this now by saying what it is you want and by standing up for how you feel about him.

 

Finally, based on everything you've said about this, it seems to me both of you are in love with each other and not as friends. I wouldn't be surprised if he booked a date this weekend, not that he's ready for that but just because he has to think about his kids. He needs someone at his house and if you're not feeling it he has to move forward. I'm telling you this so you don't go into shock if he mentions this and still push forward with saying what it is you want. Whomever he would date would not be better than you, she would not know his kids or have four years of history. Please push forward and if it fails, heal and try again with someone new. The horses are great but they may not have the same lifespan or offer the level of companionship another caring person can.

 

please listen to everything that was said here

[ThatwasThen]

Why DO you do all that for him, Suezanna?

 

You never asked him what his "deal" was?

[reinventmyself]

I was hoping you'd come back and update us on how you are doing. . . .

[suezanna]

Hello everyone,

 

I went off the grid, so to speak, for the weekend. I had a lot to think about, and I just needed the silence and my own thoughts. Everyone here brought up very valid points and I have been trying to look at the situation objectively, particularly my own actions & reactions. Last night I sat down at my computer and wrote you folks another mini-novel (in paragraph form, I am happy to report!) but obviously it did not post. I may have logged off my computer too fast.

 

Rather than re-write everything, I was hoping it will still be there when I log into my desktop at home after work.

 

There was some interaction this weekend. G found me to talk, and we actually talked constructively (I believe) and spent some time together. If my post is not sitting on my screen when I get home to check, I will re-write it and send it out.

[suezanna]

Hello,

Warning: It's a long one again...

 

So I checked out my computer at home and sadly, all that I had written was gone. I have no idea what I did...then the evening got away from me, so here I am.

 

As I had said, I took the weekend to myself. No social media, no phone being checked every five minutes. I mucked for my horse, spent time alone, listened to music and reflected. A lot of the questions that have been asked by you folks circulated in my head, as well as new ones of my own. Surprisingly, I came up with some of your most recent ones on my own as well! Why hadn't I asked him what his "deal" was? What do I really want? Why do I do what I do for him (them)? Where do we go from here? Is there anywhere to go from here? We have had arguments in the past, but there was always the underlying "this will pass" feeling. This time, it was harder to feel like it would all be OK.

 

I know that I have to go back to talking to a professional about what happened to me in the past. My previous therapist (my only therapist) got to a point in our sessions where he told me he felt I needed someone more experienced than he was to help me - that's me paraphrasing - I always felt like maybe he was a little too fresh out of school to deal with some very graphic stuff. I tend to be either very closed-mouthed or blunt. He did not handle blunt well and we parted ways. But what I did get out of my sessions before they ended, was that my ex was sociopath and a narcissist. He chose me. He groomed me. He won my trust with his charm. He separated me from all that was familiar, then he dismantled my life, ruined my self-esteem, abused me physically and emotionally and never felt a moment of remorse.

 

Upon finally leaving him after 10 years, I arrived home on Christmas Eve day. Six months later, my mother had a heart attack which went un-diagnosed for several days, resulting in severe damage to her heart muscle. I took care of her for eleven years to differing degrees, until the final couple of years when it was quite intense until she passed away the night before my birthday in January of 2014. Although G and I had met the previous June, his attention did not become laser focused on me until right after my mother passed. It got to the point where all of my co-workers were like "What is up between you two?" "He is after you" "That guy is really into you" - I was still in mourning and was not paying attention to cues. I had been in a cocoon from the end of my relationship until the end of my mother's life. I wasn't out re-learning the dating scene. I wasn't getting to know men. I was going to work every day, going home every night, administering whatever medical care my mother needed. I had blinders on.

 

So yes, my bad relationship was over a very long time ago, but it is like my life has been in a time capsule since then. When G made his presence known, and everyone was saying he was interested, it scared me. The rawness was still real from my ex. That was when I told him that I was broken, and if he was interested, I needed him to leave me alone because I could not handle that. But if he wanted to be friends, we could be. He came back. And we have been friends since.

 

I am a caregiver by nature. I had always regretted not having children (but was glad, too because of who their father would have been). I have 3 grown nephews in their 20's, but they were the only kids I ever interacted with and I missed half their lives. When G agreed to friendship and the sex part was taken out of the equation, I felt safe. I know it is hard to understand because you were not in my shoes, but by him saying he would be my friend, and by him backing that up with brotherly teasing, I became comfortable. I was given the opportunity to just be me. And I was given the gift of having children in my life. Spending time with them. Teaching them things, showing them things. Just introducing a different perspective. It was at my own insistence with both G and with his ex wife, that if I ever did anything with the kids, one "no" from either parent equaled "No" period and the kids were to understand that. I did not have a vote. The kids could not look to me as an ally. I looked at every moment I could be with them as a gift from God. I always felt that someone would come into G's life and it could happen tomorrow, and my life would be forever changed once again, so I just lived in my own little world. We even talked about this, and he would say "I wouldn't be with a woman who would not want me to keep the friends I have" and while I would nod like I understood, I know in my heart that no woman would want another woman who has history, who the kids love, etc. hanging around. And I knew that I personally would not hang around as a third wheel. So I refused to look at the future and I just lived in the present as long as the present would have me. I would not analyze it, but on some level I have always known that we have served as space-holders in each others lives. He has someone to call and text everyday and I have somewhere to go and to be with every weekend.

 

It has just been lately that I felt that was changing. I had always noticed his attractiveness, but I can admire a man without wanting to jump into bed with him. He said men are not like that. He said if a man thinks a woman is attractive, he thinks about being with her. The fight we had was because we had both reached our breaking points.

 

I feed 80 horses their breakfast every Sunday morning. It is my shift at the rescue I volunteer at. G showed up there Sunday morning. He has only done that once before, with his daughter. It was a horrible day, weather-wise, and he worked his butt off for the whole shift, doing what needed to be done, never trying to talk about anything. When we finished, we sat in his truck for a long time without speaking. Then he told me he was sorry. Sorry for making me feel humiliated by him talking to the guys across the street. He said he never intended to hurt me, but that our friendship has become more difficult for him. He said he knew I was hurt and delicate when we met, but that he felt we knew each other well enough, and that I felt comfortable enough with him that slowly he has let the reins go on his personality with me - that he has begun to show that he wants me. He said he was initially interested in me when we met, even though he denied it when I called him on it. He said he was going to walk away just like I asked. In fact, he stayed away from me for 3 weeks before returning. He told me he lied when he said he wanted to be just friends with me. He just figured that once I got comfortable with him I would relax. He also said he realized he really underestimated how hurt I had been by my ex, and he had no idea how protective of me he would end up feeling. He said he enjoyed, yet it killed him, every time I would be skeptical about us going somewhere and how excited like a little kid I would get when we would actually go. He had no idea how many "normal" experiences I never got to have, and he was amazed at how little it took to make me happy. He said he has spent the last four years wavering between never calling me again and not being able to think about never talking to me again. He said he never went out with the same woman twice on the six or so dates he has gone on since we met because they were not me. He said he slept with only one of the six - the second one he went out with, because he was ready to throw in the towel on me and he was frustrated and horny. He didn't spend the night, he ended up calling me the next morning, and he felt like he had cheated on me for months afterwards. When I made no move to be closer to him, he went on 3 or 4 more dates, but since he couldn't imagine seeing any of them again, he did not sleep with them and he never asked any of them out again. He has not spent time with another woman since his last date and that was almost 2 years ago.

 

So he then laid a bombshell on me. He said he wants me. He wants me any way he can have me. And if that means we will never have sex, then he will deal with it. He hopes that we will, but he'll deal with it if we don't. He said he cannot imagine not having me in his life and if we have to see a therapist together he will do it. He said he couldn't sleep or eat or concentrate since we fought and he was afraid I would never speak to him again.

 

I told him I had sensed there was stuff going on with him, especially with all the sex talk he was doing lately, which was why I had intended to talk to him about it this past weekend, but he had come to my house during the week and the fight we had got out of hand. I told him I was so angry and hurt about him talking to the guys because of the humiliation my ex used to get pleasure out of causing me. All I could see was red when he said what he said to them. I also felt like he and the kids and the life I had grown to love being a part of was being ripped from me and I was so hurt and angry I threw out words that I hoped would make him think about what he would lose if he gave up on me. I also told him that his constant barrage of sexual innuendo had been working and that I had been thinking about being intimate with him, but I was more confused about whether he meant the sexual things he said than I was about whether I wanted it. As for actually having a relationship with him - a bonafide, real, committed relationship - I had never even given myself permission to even think about it. I did not allow my mind to go there because it seemed so out of reach. We both cried.

 

We went to his place afterwards to get warm & dry. We watched a movie and ate a little something. We actually held hands on the love seat.

He called me Monday and asked me out for Friday night. It will be our first official date. He said he will finally be able to use his "game" on me...

I'm nervous but excited.

[Wiseman2]

Excellent. Enjoy the date and the new beginning.

He called me Monday and asked me out for Friday night. It will be our first official date.

[reinventmyself]

Omg. . That gave me goosebumps.

I read so many stories here and every once in a while I feel deeply moved by someone's experience.

 

I heard a quote the other day.

Portia DeRossi, her wedding vows to Ellen DeGeneres -

"It is good to be loved. To be understood is profound"

 

You deserve a great love in your life. It's about time you had it.

Thanks for sharing your story.

All the best to you.

[Jibralta]

Excellent. Enjoy the date and the new beginning.

 

I second this sentiment. :peaceful:

[suezanna]

I want to say thank you to everyone who took their time to respond to my postings. I honestly do not think I would have had the conversation with G that I had on Sunday if it had not been for the voices of reason I had read here. I would have been in fight or flight mode when he came to help with the horses, and I don't think I would have been as up-front with how I am feeling as I was - even though he opened up to me. I don't know what Friday or beyond has in store for me, but I am going to approach it openly and I am going to try my hardest to move forward and share how I feel when I am feeling it.

 

Thank you again.

Sue

[Mari]

I want to say thank you to everyone who took their time to respond to my postings. I honestly do not think I would have had the conversation with G that I had on Sunday if it had not been for the voices of reason I had read here. I would have been in fight or flight mode when he came to help with the horses, and I don't think I would have been as up-front with how I am feeling as I was - even though he opened up to me. I don't know what Friday or beyond has in store for me, but I am going to approach it openly and I am going to try my hardest to move forward and share how I feel when I am feeling it.

 

Thank you again.

Sue

 

Thanks for taking the time to write up the update. I'm really happy to hear that things worked out. Good for him in mustering up the courage to say what he felt and for you in being receptive and being honest about your feelings. The potential of you two having a very successful and awesome long term relationship is very high. The only thing that may interfere is the class difference. There may be fights that come up with his choice of friends or how he manages money or something else. You'll have to work on resolving these fights and not let them lead to a breakup. People are different, it's difficult enough to find someone compatible and have them be into you. I think with G you've got a good guy on your hands and it would be best to work out those fights without escalating them. I'm expecting your date to go well, if there are any issues in the future I think you'll be able to resolve them and if not then through therapy. Congratulations on getting the relationship you wanted! :) Glad things worked out for you.

[suezanna]

Hi,

I just wanted to check-in to say hello. G and I went on our first date as planned and it was very nice. He was very attentive, and it is so wonderful to not be on-guard around him - to know he is in this, and we are seeing where it goes together.

 

He is showing me affection and he takes every opportunity to touch me and hug me or put his arm around me, and I am feeling much more comfortable initiating physical contact as well. We've been kissing and touching each other, and spending a lot of time together. He comes to my place regularly, which is different because he used to keep his distance and we would only see each other when I went to his place, so that is something new for me. He is definitely stepping up to stake his claim, so to speak - in stores he puts his hand on my lower back, and he tucks me into his side if we are in a crowd. We have not slept together yet - on purpose. We talked about it, and decided that just because we know each other so well and are so familiar with each other's presence, it doesn't mean we have had the opportunity to learn about the intimate side of each other. We haven't had the freedom to hug or kiss - the courtship period I guess you'd call it - so we would like to experience some of the build-up and some of the anticipation. We may end up being together for a long time if we have been able to sustain a friendship for 4 years already, so we want to appreciate the little things before we move into the big ones. I don't think we'll be waiting all THAT LONG, but it is nice to anticipate.

 

Thanks again to everyone who gave me their input and opinions!

Sue