Splitting the bill

[Maddyb12]

Hey everyone, I've been with my boyfriend almost 5 months everything is pretty good, no big fights or issues really no big complaints... but I am curious as to everyone's opinion on who pays for what. We split the bill on everything to the point that I find it frustrating and will sometimes just offer to pay the whole thing. I mean what's the point in splitting a 15 dollar check. Anyways we make around the same amount of money and generally have the same amount of expenses each month in bills. He is very cautious about spending since he purchased a new truck and has higher payments then he realized. He has mentioned that he likes that we split things evenly and in his past relationship he always was expected to pay more because she made significantly less money. I don't mind that we split the check I just feel like every once in a while he should pick up the whole thing? Is that wrong? I am trying to put it into perspective, he drives to me majority of the time because I have a better living situation (he stays with family) so we stay at my place when we are together. It just feels weird sometimes.

[mustlovedogs]

I think your expenses together should be equal so splitting should be fine. He shouldn't pick up the whole tab if you never offer to.

 

My ex and I just roughly took turns buying things. It was convenient and generally balanced.

[Maddyb12]

I think your expenses together should be equal so splitting should be fine. He shouldn't pick up the whole tab if you never offer to.

 

My ex and I just roughly took turns buying things. It was convenient and generally balanced.

 

I do pick up the whole tab every once in a while haha I guess maybe I just need to stop doing that and just have things split always or take turns.

[Krankor]

Well, on the one hand, if you two make about the same amount of money then it certainly would appear that you have a pretty fair arrangement, so I'm not sure you have a completely legitimate beef here.

 

However, I can also see the perspective wanting to be treated every once in a while. Throughout our history as a species males have always provisioned females, and while that is very often no longer necessary or even technically "fair" in our modern world that is still part of our psychology. Him picking up the tab here and there would probably make you feel special and valued, and I agree that splitting a $15 check seems excessively 50/50.

 

But, this has been the accepted dynamic of your relationship. If you want to change it, I wouldn't start complaining that he should pay the whole bill sometimes. What I would do is next time you are out that YOU pick up the whole tab. Just say "Honey, we don't need to split a bill this small. It's my treat tonight." Then see if he reciprocates the next time. He sounds like he's about a 50/50 trader in life who started to feel a little taken by his last girlfriend, so what may end up happening is that you just start taking turns paying rather than splitting everything, but at least it won't be the exact same situation.

[j.man]

I don't think it's weird from a sorta social norms perspective. The tides are fortunately changing but men are still by and large expected to treat.

 

But for those who take a moment to rationalize, no, it's not weird. You consume it, you pay for it, and that's a simple and intuitive enough concept to grasp. If one or the other can't afford it, they make it known sooner than later and the other partner can decide whether it's worth it treat them or to just do something cheaper.

 

My lady and I generally take turns just to keep it a bit simpler. Though if I were worried about big payments coming up, I'd probably prefer to just split the bill according to what we each ordered so I could have control of how much I spend.

 

At the end of the day, particularly if he's expressed that he likes the fact you're kosher with splitting bills, I wouldn't then proceed to pay for a whole bill expecting to set that standard. Stick to the the status quo and only pay if you feel so inclined to do so without reciprocation. That's what the point of giving should be anyhow. Plus, he's splitting the bills and doing most the traveling, he's showing his effort in other ways than covering the check.

 

While I really want to like Krankor's idea, it does seem a bit like setting yourself up for disappointment. Oftentimes, reciprocation isn't a literal t1t-for-tat and perhaps he might see you treating him as a thank-you for sparing you the travel time, handling some handy work, or whatever other effort he may have put in. In his mind, it might not be all about directly mirroring each other's generosity.

[itsallgrand]

Maybe give him some time.

 

When my bf and I started dating and for a good while, I insisted we do 50/50. Why? In the very beginning, he was trying to pay for my end more and when it was my turn to treat, it never came close to what he was spending. I wanted him to know I wasn't one of those people who felt entitled to being treated in a certain way because I have avagina and/ or the money I make ( though that isn't an issue at all as we both work and make enough money to support our costs and treating when we feel like it). I wanted him to know he was safe with me and I'd never ever use him or ever come close that.

 

My boyfriend too had expressed how he appreciates this about me ( and still does) and he had his share of encounters with women who aren't like that. I think a lot of men have. I've heard it plenty - men who get sick of coming across that attitude .

 

Anyways with time and trust building, we got into just taking turns. We don't micromanage our living costs either, it still more or less balances out and is fair.

 

Five months in, maybe he just needs this now. You can always reassess later.

[j.man]

Maybe give him some time.

 

When my bf and I started dating and for a good while, I insisted we do 50/50. Why? In the very beginning, he was trying to pay for my end more and when it was my turn to treat, it never came close to what he was spending. I wanted him to know I wasn't one of those people who felt entitled to being treated in a certain way because I have avagina and/ or the money I make ( though that isn't an issue at all as we both work and make enough money to support our costs and treating when we feel like it). I wanted him to know he was safe with me and I'd never ever use him or ever come close that.

 

My boyfriend too had expressed how he appreciates this about me ( and still does) and he had his share of encounters with women who aren't like that. I think a lot of men have. I've heard it plenty - men who get sick of coming across that attitude .

 

Anyways with time and trust building, we got into just taking turns. We don't micromanage our living costs either, it still more or less balances out and is fair.

 

Five months in, maybe he just needs this now. You can always reassess later.

This sounds about as well-reasoned as it gets.

[katrina1980]

This is such a hot topic so hesitate to chime in, but of course will anyway so here goes.

 

While it seems logical to split the bill, especially considering you earn essentially the same amount, personally doing so makes me feel more like a 'business partner' or 'friend' rather than a woman a man is romantically and "sexually" attracted to.

 

It has nothing to do with feeling "entitled" it's about how it makes me feel as a woman. And how I make him feel as a man. Feminine versus masculine, yin and yang.

 

If some folks don't believe in that dynamic, cool, this is what works for me in my relationships and I know many other women feel the same.

 

And isn't that what attracts us to another? How that person and their actions makes us feel?

 

Most of my boyfriends, including man I am dating now, pay. It's never very expensive, I dislike expensive sit-downs, much prefer something low key and casual where there is good music and we split some appetizers, something like that.

 

I reciprocate in other ways. Like with the man I am dating now, I cooked him dinner last weekend and last night went over to his before we went out and brought over his favorite bottle of scotch.

 

With my last boyfriend, I was always bringing home little gifts for him that I knew he would like.

 

So it all "evened" out if that how a couple wants to look at it.

 

Maddy, I wonder if, instead of splitting, you might propose taking turns paying.

 

It may not feel so much like a business transaction or friendship that way, if that is how you feel.

 

I don't know, all you said was it felt "weird."

 

Just my $.02 FWIW.

[Krankor]

I don't think it's weird from a sorta social norms perspective. The tides are fortunately changing but men are still by and large expected to treat.

 

But for those who take a moment to rationalize, no, it's not weird. You consume it, you pay for it, and that's a simple and intuitive enough concept to grasp. If one or the other can't afford it, they make it known sooner than later and the other partner can decide whether it's worth it treat them or to just do something cheaper.

 

My lady and I generally take turns just to keep it a bit simpler. Though if I were worried about big payments coming up, I'd probably prefer to just split the bill according to what we each ordered so I could have control of how much I spend.

 

At the end of the day, particularly if he's expressed that he likes the fact you're kosher with splitting bills, I wouldn't then proceed to pay for a whole bill expecting to set that standard. Stick to the the status quo and only pay if you feel so inclined to do so without reciprocation. That's what the point of giving should be anyhow. Plus, he's splitting the bills and doing most the traveling, he's showing his effort in other ways than covering the check.

 

While I really want to like Krankor's idea, it does seem a bit like setting yourself up for disappointment. Oftentimes, reciprocation isn't a literal t1t-for-tat and perhaps he might see you treating him as a thank-you for sparing you the travel time, handling some handy work, or whatever other effort he may have put in. In his mind, it might not be all about directly mirroring each other's generosity.

 

You may be right, but that's why I suggested it as a trial to see whether that gets him to start picking up the tab sometimes as well. While I don't think it's a huge deal by any means, I can actually sort of see where it may get annoying to ALWAYS split every tab. I mean, they're a couple. I believe that the belief that the man should pay is largely hard-wired by evolution more than social conditioning and while most people can now logically see that this isn't necessary or fair anymore there is probably a part of her stone-aged brain saying "Wait a minute, why am I not being provisioned? He needs to do a better job if he wants to prove himself worthy of a pair-bond." I think it's likely that impulse would be placated by simply seeing him pick up the tab here and there. Again, it's not a logical impulse, but then, it's not logical to eat an entire sleeve of Oreos. Yet, people still do it, because their stone-aged brains are screaming at them "Pig out! Who knows when we'll come across something this calorie-dense again!" But, I digress.

 

Anyway, I think you are right that this may backfire, and you also have a point that he is provisioning her by always being the one to drive to her; spending the gas money, putting in the time, and putting wear and tear on his vehicle.

[Maddyb12]

Thanks for everyone's reply. It's not about the money and me not wanting to spend it I guess it's just the splitting of the check that makes me feel strange when we're out, I would prefer to take turns. I also can't tell if I should be frustrated that he would pay for majority of things with his ex but with me he doesn't? I think he felt more obligated with her because her low income but he mentioned he didn't mind it because he had the money more than she did.

[katrina1980]

Thanks for everyone's reply. It's not about the money and me not wanting to spend it I guess it's just the splitting of the check that makes me feel strange when we're out, I would prefer to take turns. I also can't tell if I should be frustrated that he would pay for majority of things with his ex but with me he doesn't? I think he felt more obligated with her because her low income but he mentioned he didn't mind it because he had the money more than she did.

 

Maddy, as per my last post I understand why you would feel weird, but why not be HONEST and tell him how you feel? I don't understand why you can't discuss this with him.

 

And also suggest to him that you take turns paying, instead of splitting.

 

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and if it doesn't to him, well, that may be another issue altogether.

 

Talk to him!

[boltnrun]

Comparing your relationship to the one he had with his ex is an exercise in futility, not to mention a sure way to become frustrated or jealous or to feel inadequate.

 

Their relationship obviously didn't work out, so why would you seek or even want the same dynamic they had?

[j.man]

This is such a hot topic so hesitate to chime in, but of course will anyway so here goes.

 

While it seems logical to split the bill, especially considering you earn essentially the same amount, personally doing so makes me feel more like a 'business partner' or 'friend' rather than a woman a man is romantically and "sexually" attracted to.

 

It has nothing to do with feeling "entitled" it's about how it makes me feel as a woman. And how I make him feel as a man. Feminine versus masculine, yin and yang.

 

If some folks don't believe in that dynamic, cool, this is what works for me in my relationships and I know many other women feel the same.

 

And isn't that what attracts us to another? How that person and their actions makes us feel?

 

Most of my boyfriends, including man I am dating now, pay. It's never very expensive, I dislike expensive sit-downs, much prefer something low key and casual where there is good music and we split some appetizers, something like that.

 

I reciprocate in other ways. Like with the man I am dating now, I cooked him dinner last weekend and last night went over to his before we went out and brought over his favorite bottle of scotch.

 

With my last boyfriend, I was always bringing home little gifts for him that I knew he would like.

 

So it all "evened" out if that how a couple wants to look at it.

 

Maddy, I wonder if, instead of splitting, you might propose taking turns paying.

 

It may not feel so much like a business transaction or friendship that way, if that is how you feel.

 

I don't know, all you said was it felt "weird."

 

Just my $.02 FWIW.

To disclaim before I might seemingly lay into this a bit, whatever genuinely works between two people is obviously what's right for them. Ultimately, it's up to a couple in terms of what they view as equitable. That out of the way, I do feel compelled to, even if as more of a PSA than a direct rebuttal to you, Katrina, address the common conflation of desires vs. expectations as well as associating "masculinity" with monetary provision and "femininity" being the recipient thereof.

 

To want to be treated or to be appreciative of it is perfectly fine. Believe it or not, even men love free food. To expect to be treated, especially if by the simple virtue of your respective sex chromosomes, is in fact entitlement and in every sense of the word. And I'd say the very same for a couple earning the same or similar but the man expecting the woman to be the one to do the bulk of the household chores. Basically, if at any point and all other things considered equal, a guy splits the bill with you or insists on it, and you in any way feel offense, resentment, or adverse judgment against him for doing so, that's not a good thing. And that very notion is evidenced whenever someone asks whether a man should pay, inferring an obligation or duty of some sort. Now if you can more or less just mentally shrug, fork over your portion, and move on to what you think would be greener pastures, that's fine. I think in this day and age you're limiting your options, but that's your own consideration that no one can fault you for.

 

Further, splitting bills shouldn't be viewed as a business transaction as there's actually zero transaction going on between you and your partner as far as the food and money are concerned. You're both paying the restaurant. Can't say I completely understand where you're coming from with that angle. I mean... I might understand if one person insisted on taking the whole bill for points and then asking the other to fork over the cash for their portion every time, but that seems like a pretty hefty outlier.

 

And, personally, I can't get behind the whole making your partner feel like a man or a woman. I was born with a penis and I've been very cognizant of the fact pretty much my whole life, especially since puberty Paying for meals has never made me feel like any more of a man than the sheer awareness I am one already did. In fact, I heavily scrutinize a man who would require a partner to do something or let him do something to provide him some sort of reinforcement of the fact. At the end of the day, we should feel validated as partners and with our contributions as such. Intrinsically identifying whatever contributions according to sex is something I view detrimental not just to a whole lot of relationships, but socially as a whole.

 

And all that isn't meant to suggest you have to defend your preference to be paid for. I think a mistake a lot of people make is defending preferences when they simply are what they are. Off the top of my head, I could give you a list of 100 preferences I have that have no real reason-based defense of, and I'll be damned if I don't stick to them. But if someone asks me why I need a lady who doesn't have a gummy smile or, completely hypothetically and simply to relate it to the thread, a lady who wants to pay for my dates, I'm just gonna shrug and go, "Yeeeeah... it is what it is. What can I say?"

[seanryder]

I think we get what you're saying.....while it might be 'fair'....it's not exactly what James Bond would do!

 

The age old dilemma between 'equality' and 'sexual polarity'.

[Maddyb12]

Yes exactly.. in all other aspects he is great to me so I know I shouldn't let this bother me too much.

[katrina1980]

j.man, not sure where you got that I "expect" it or anything else. For the record I do not expect it.

 

I just like it, it's the type of dynamic I respond to very well, as does HE, and it's not because I don't have the money to pay my own way, or feel 'entitled' - it goes much deeper than that.

 

And while I understand your reasoning as to why it is not a 'business transaction', to ME, it feels more like just that.

 

I don't know why I feel this way, but feelings are never right or wrong, would you agree on that? They just "are."

 

We all have them, and are entitled to them no matter how much they differ from anyone else's.

 

That said, if I were to explore where they stem from, it most likely has something to do with how I was raised.

 

Living in an environment and being raised to believe that men 'court' women and pay for dates. As

'old fashioned' as that may sound to some.

 

If I could change my feelings about this I certainly would, but so far no man I have dated has challenged me on it, as I said they enjoyed this dynamic as well, treating me. And my response thereto.

 

In turn as I said I reciprocated by not only verbally appreciating all they do for me but also by my actions too, in different ways.

 

I recall there were times I offered to pay and my ex for example, would actually feel insulted. He was raised in an environment similar to mine.

 

With my new guy, I think I will propose paying next time, I am seeing him again tonight. Not sure if we're going out though. .

 

Just to see how I feel and how he responds.

 

And j.man, while my own boyfriends never challenged me on this, I am glad you did! I am always open to change and growth and new ways of interacting in my relationships, so thanks! I mean that.

[katrina1980]

I think we get what you're saying.....while it might be 'fair'....it's not exactly what James Bond would do!

 

The age old dilemma between 'equality' and 'sexual polarity'.

 

Yeah sexual polarity, yin and yang. Exactly.

[itsallgrand]

Jman really nailed it for me.

 

And when I like someone and want to spend time with them, I don't really care if I have to pay my own way.

 

Once you've been together to the point of living together , for us, it became somewhat inconvenient to each take care of every transaction we make together. So we divy it up.

 

But I remember my gramps and his partner even having their own stashes of food that they each bought. She had never been with a man who respected her having things of her own ( her own property, her own money, her own things ). So she enjoyed not losing that just because she was with somebody.

 

I hesitate to say it but I don't see what's wrong with accommodating that if someone experienced being used in a prior relationship, or simply prefer it. Again, it's about enjoying each other right?

 

I get for some they see it and prefer it differently.

[moneymkt]

My grandmom told me that the man always paid unless it was his birthday or Christmas lol I almost didn't want to date after that

[itsallgrand]

My grandmom told me that the man always paid unless it was his birthday or Christmas lol I almost didn't want to date after that

 

A lot of people tend to forget the dark side to where those values came from.

A man always paid...but that meant as a woman being economically and legally dependent on men ( first father, then husband, then children). Not fun! In my opinion anyways.

[moneymkt]

Thanks for everyone's reply. It's not about the money and me not wanting to spend it I guess it's just the splitting of the check that makes me feel strange when we're out, I would prefer to take turns. I also can't tell if I should be frustrated that he would pay for majority of things with his ex but with me he doesn't? I think he felt more obligated with her because her low income but he mentioned he didn't mind it because he had the money more than she did.

 

Or if he paid the whole check u can pay the tip

[katrina1980]

A lot of people tend to forget the dark side to where those values came from.

A man always paid...but that meant as a woman being economically and legally dependent on men ( first father, then husband, then children). Not fun! In my opinion anyways.

 

Not always there are varying nuances to this type of dynamic.

 

Using myself as an example, I work, have a career and support myself quite sufficiently.

 

I have a mind of my own, my own opinions, which my boyfriends have challenged me on, and vice versa, and enjoy this dynamic as well.

 

Again not sure why I feel as I do, however j.man challenged me on it a very respectful way, so am going to try it.

 

See how I feel and how my new guy feels, it will be interesting! As so far he has paid for every date, and I reciprocated as per my first post on this thread.

[Batya33]

With my friends -not dates -if we see each other regularly I prefer to take turns. When I dated I preferred to take turns -just felt more comfortable and "friendly". Otherwise too much like a business arrangement.

[itsallgrand]

Not always there are varying nuances to this type of dynamic.

 

Using myself as an example, I work, have a career and support myself quite sufficiently.

 

I have a mind of my own, my own opinions, which my boyfriends have challenged me on, and vice versa, and enjoy this dynamic as well.

 

Again not sure why I feel as I do, however j.man challenged me on it a very respectful way, so am going to try it.

 

See how I feel and how my new guy feels, it will be interesting! As so far he has paid for every date, and I reciprocated as per my first post on this thread.

 

It will be fun to hear how your experiment goes.!

 

My point was that these ideas and values are vestiges of a former time and way of life . The kind I mentioned.

[katrina1980]

It will be fun to hear how your experiment goes.!

 

My point was that these ideas and values are vestiges of a former time and way of life . The kind I mentioned.

 

Ok I will let y'all know!

 

He's coming by tonight (Netflix and chill?) last night we had a pretty crazy night out.

 

But next time we're out to eat, or doing something else that costs money, I will definitely propose paying!

 

Not splitting, but paying for both of us, my treat.

 

We haven't been seeing each other that long but the "dynamic" between us (yin and yang ) has pretty much been established.

 

So I am fairly certain I will be okay with it (I've grown a lot since my ex), but his response will be interesting.

 

Somehow I think he might be okay with it too.

 

Interesting how one thread can change a person's perspective.

 

Or maybe not.

 

Will let you know!