Honest Opinion from "Outside The Box" Please. Cause sometimes one could be Wrong

[Zenson]

So please read through, cause I need an Honest Opinion to my Questions at the End, and the text is in full cause I don't want to skew the facts in anyone's favor. (Zen) will be my dialog, (K) will be hers. Try not to get frustrated.., for some.., I can hear your words now..., Anyways, Much Mahalo'. Can't give good advise, if you're not willing to get some from time to time right! Maybe I'm just an idiot.., I'm sure ya'll will let me know, cheers.

 

(Zen) Lost two alleged friends in less than a month...., got a feeling it's not done yet...,

 

(K) What happened

 

(Zen) Well one, you already know, and will overlook as well as say nothing in regards to.., the other, was told that I WOULD never do, and chooses to maintain such as fact so I told him to jog on as well.

 

(K) Oh scenario

I don't over look it

I forgive , u can too

 

(Zen) One more will be going to prison.., and another..., just might fade away..., such is life I guess

Than why not forgive Doug?

That's different huh...?

 

(K) I do forgive him

He is who he is...

 

(Zen) And you have said this to him....

 

(K) Not sure what that has to do with it

 

(Zen) I forgive those who earn it, deserve it, and who actually make an effort.., everyone else, can jog the on ya dig

Just making a clear concise comparison, so maybe you can slightly relate. Not trying to be mean ok.

 

(K) Ok

I forgive ppl cuz it makes me feel better I don't care what they do

Forgiveness is light n life resentment is death n darkness. I'll never stop believing that

 

(Zen) The choices we make, define who we really are deep down. I take notice of such, and because of that, would NEVER forgive Doug for the way he treated you. Not now, not ever! Cause what kind of person would I be if I acted any different? Not the kind of person I say I am, and in the end.., that, is what truly matters.

 

(K) If u acted different than what

 

(Zen) Allowing someone to treat you like complete utter , and have the opportunity to say something about it, yet not. As well as alllow those facts to be overlooked in my overall opinion of that person! Couldn't do it! Cause regardless of "our" status, no ing person will ever treat you like nothing, like garbage, like an insignificant piece of , and be of any real significance to me..EVER! Not because I'm loyally to you, but because I'm loyally to how people treat the one's I love and care for. that!

 

(Zen) You know, for someone who gets upset when people treat others with complete disregard, and disrespect, I'd think that they would take a fairly firm position pointing out such things to someone, who purposefully does that very thing to their alleged "best/only" real friend. Because they actually feel like it matters. You know what I mean?

 

(K) U make it sound so confusing

Am I they ?

 

(Zen) Yes

 

(K) And r u saying I should point something out

Point out a disrespectful behavior

 

(Zen) Well.., honestly K***..., I'm no longer sure. See, I know you'd rather everything just "be"

 

(K) That ur bestie did to u

Jeremy I'm guessing?

 

(Zen) But nothing worth anything gets better by doin nothing

Not my bestie, his

 

(K) I do feel like it matters. He will come see u when he gets out, he's been gone for 26 days

 

(Zen) You really don't give a how someone treats others?

"Wasn't me they treated like right?"

 

(K) Of course I do

That's not true

 

(Zen) I find that difficult to believe

 

(K) Y shouldn't

 

(Zen) Not because you want to continue with someone like that.., but because you say you stand for something, you teach it to your daughter, yet really say or do nothing to uphold that.

 

(K) That's not true

Ppl make mistakes I understand that and don't judge a person based on their mistakes

 

(Zen) How can you expect tootie to stand up for certain morals and values, if you don't set a clear example....,?

 

(K) I set a nonjudgmental example and that's very important to me

 

(Zen) Mistakes are one thing, knowingly doing something is not a ing mistake!

 

(K) It can be

Sometimes we don't think clearly

Always

 

(Zen) If i smack you across the face, purposefully, is that a ing mistake?

 

(K) Could be

it depends

 

(Zen) Knowingly doing something to someone, knowing how it will affect them, without question, or uncertainty, is NOT A ING MISTAKE!

 

(K) Not everyone can 'know' what will happen some don't think about that

 

(Zen) It's really weird how you continue to defend something, and make excuses for something that you KNOW is ed up!

 

(K) I'm not defending any behavior or making excuses for any actions

 

(Zen) Yes you are. You keep trying to ing say that what, and how Jeremy did and went about things was just a "mistake"

 

(K) I'm only saying forgiveness and valuing nonjudemental attitudes is what I defend

Not one action or behavior ...but the person having the capacity to not base their entire judgement on a person by one action

 

(Zen) It's the biggest self slap to your intelligence, and continues to dumbfound me daily.

It's not just one ing action

 

(K) Well I disagree wit u

...so that leaves us to agree to disagree okY

 

(Zen) And non-judgement attitude is a straw man position, when it comes to knowingly doing something to someone, when knowingly stating how ed up it be if one were to do so..., then doing just that.

 

(K) I understand ur frustration

It's actually hard to be non judging

Letting one action define an entire person

That's easy

Hating is easy

 

(Zen) If I know you're deeply afraid of snakes, and know it will cause you mental and emotional distress by throwing one on you, and I do that..., how is that not ed up?

 

(K) Yes and forgivable

U don't go around hating them, that just creates absence of light

The goal is to be filled with light

 

(Zen) And it's impossible to be non judging, same as unbiased, or completely objectionable.

 

(K) Well I try

Nothing is perfect

 

(Zen) Good to know that you find it completely irrelevant how someone treats the ones they supposedly love and care about. And how such things make no difference to how you view them.., until it's you of course.....

 

(K) Not true !!!

 

(Zen) That's what you have clearly stated, and stand behind. I can read very well...

I'M blown away

 

(K) Read my msgs again then

 

(Zen) Don't judge people by their actions, is what you stated

Just trying to understand..., cause I truly thought I knew who I have loved all these years. ., that's all

 

SO!! Here's what I'd like your opinion on Please:

1st. Is it just me, or is she clearly playing the definition game when it comes to "Mistakes"?

2nd. Is it ed up to knowingly cause mental and emotional breakdowns in someone who you love and respect, and who you consider to be a friend?

3rd. If you state basically right before how ed up it would be, to do something to someone, and then do that exact thing, are you a decent person?

4th. One's actions ARE what you use (judge), to decide whether or not they are someone that you would want in your life?

5th. Was I making my point confusing? Being a ? Not giving clear concise examples? Or not being understanding within a LOGICAL Standpoint?

 

And last..., Am I just wrong to stand up for the right and righteous behaviour, amoungst friends and those you say you love?? Cause I've been wrong before.., obviously!! and wouldn't even bother to ask complete strangers, if I didn't feel the need and importance to validate such standpoints. Cause unless "WE" start actually "Making" a difference, and holding each-other "Accountable" for our actions, than we are doing nothing more then perpetuating disrespect, and setting a poor in' example for the next generation to go on...., And I will NOT just "Do Nothing or Say Nothing", cause some might find it too direct, Ya Dig!! Thanks to all, and to all who find this enlightening, insightful, or something positive to become better towards your fellow Human "Beings". -Zenson

[MissCanuck]

What in the fresh heck have I just read?

 

I'm sorry OP, but this conversation makes very little sense and is hard to follow. You need to explain the context if you are hoping to get valuable feedback.

 

What is this woman's relationship to you? Who are Doug and Jeremy? What is this circular, cluttered and vague debate even in reference to? Why are you so angry about it?

[Capricorn3]

What in the fresh heck have I just read?

 

I'm sorry OP, but this conversation makes very little sense and is hard to follow. You need to explain the context if you are hoping to get valuable feedback.

 

What is this woman's relationship to you? Who are Doug and Jeremy? What is this circular, cluttered and vague debate even in reference to? Why are you so angry about it?

 

I second this post. Utter confusion and nothing makes any sense.

[RedDress]

Ok... here is what I got from this. Please correct me if I am wrong because it's very confusing.

 

You and K have a mutual friend Jeremy who did you wrong. You are very upset with Jeremy - especially because he hasn't apologized or asked for forgiveness. You are now also upset at K because (she?) won't stand up for you and hasn't written Jeremy off as a friend. You feel she should and you are comparing it to when Doug did her wrong and you wrote off Doug. You feel she should determine that Jeremy is a bad person and do something about it.

 

You are wrong, IMO.

 

We don't know what Jeremy did, but generally speaking, you can be mad at someone and no longer be friends with someone but you can't ask your friends to feel the same way. You don't have the right to determine who your friends are friends with. You can feel that they are being foolish and that Jeremy is a bad person - but you should not be mad at K for making her own determination.

 

There is always two sides to a story.

 

As for forgiveness - people forgive all sorts of things that seem unforgivable. It's not uncommon for people to stand at a murder trial and talk about forgiving the murderer. It takes a whole lot of energy and focus to remain angry. You forgive for YOURSELF, to allow yourself to move on, it doesn't mean you have to forget.

 

People are under no obligation to be logical. While you can use logic on yourself to determine what you should do in a situation, you can't use it on others. The beauty (and sometimes frustration) in life is that we all have the right to self-determination whether your choices are logical or not.

 

I understand your hurt, but I think it would be a shame to throw away a friendship with K because she won't throw away her frienship with Jeremy.

 

Of course, maybe knowing what the situation was would sway my opinion... but if we are talking philosophically, I think you are wrong in your stance.

[RedDress]

Just to add... we really don't know what Jeremy did.

 

He could have stepped on your toe - in which case, no matter how mad you are, she is certainly entitled to be his friend.

 

He could have cheated on you - in which case, she may determine that he's not an overall bad person, he just sucks at romantic relationships. She is certainly entitled be his friend.

 

He could have shared nudes of you on the internet, affecting your life and your career, causing deep emotional scarring (and doing something illegal) which may impact you the rest of your life. In this case, she is still entitled to be his friend, but I may question what she values in friendship.

 

It matters. You do judge someone based on their actions, but not always based on ONE action. Sometimes. It really depends.

[hyden]

Also, one of my pet peeves. Many people don't seem to understand what an accident is and what a mistake is.

 

Accident - You do or say something unintentionally. ----> 'I accidently feel down the stairs.' This is an accident.

Mistake - You do or say something intentionally and then regret doing it. ----> 'I mistakenly attempted to walk backwards down the stairs and fell.' That was a mistake.

 

In your post, you are using the word mistake when you should be using accident. You said 'If i smack you across the face, purposefully, is that a ing mistake?' -----> Yes, that would be a mistake. It would not be an accident.

[indea08]

I didn't read the whole conv because quite frankly, it made no sense to me....but from what I did gather, K is right. Forgiveness isn't for the other person, it's for ourselves. Resentment breeds hate.

[HeartGoesOn]

I have never read a more confusing thread.

[Zenson]

Ok, so it's clear I need to put this into context... sigh..., something I didn't want to do but I guess I have to. And unlike most, I don't put things in any way other than how they took place, even when I'm wrong. So, Me and K where in a relationship, she broke it off with me. Jeremy was a friend of mine for 20 years. When she broke it off, he took me to my ma's, and said "I'm gonna go grab my , cause there is no way I'd contiune hanging out over there without you there, that's ed up and I'm not that guy." He realized how hurt I was, and how long I had waited, locked in my heart and mind for this girl to break the box. After he left.., he never called me back, never stopped back by, cause he took this as an oportunity to hook up with her!!! Right after he was warned to back the off, just until I smoothed things out, and then.., not a big deal. I was understanding, and showed compassion for them both. He crossed THE LINE, and still till this day, has said IN' Nothing!! And she, "really seems" to just OVERLOOK what he KNOWING did, and be fine with it!! How's that for context. And NO, we didn't break up for any reason on my part, she just wasn't feeling it anymore, is what she said! So, that's the whole truth.., nothing has been corrected to make anyone less or more, cause I don't do such.., EVER ya dig.

[RedDress]

Sorry - still confusing.

 

I understand that you are mad at Jeremy for sleeping with your ex within hours of the breakup. Totally understandable! That was a terrible thing to do.

 

But why are you not equally mad at K for sleeping with your best friend within hours of breaking up with you?? She is not an innocent flower in all of this. Unless he raped her, she made the very same decision that Jeremy did, also knowing that it would hurt you. There is absolutely no difference.

 

And you want her to cut ties with Jeremy because he's a bad person for sleeping with her? You want her to say "Jeremy, you should have been thinking about how Zen would feel!" when she, too, could have been thinking how you would feel? It doesn't make sense. They were equal partners in this.

 

I think you are blinded by your feelings for K and prefer to see her as a victim. She is not a victim (unless he raped her - in which case, she should go to the police).

[Zenson]

I give her a pass cause she at least went about things in the right way by breaking it off with me. As well as showing me how much she was sorry for the way things turned out. Jeremy did nothing in any respect to me, yet said far too much reassuring crap prior to going about things. Am I blinded by her.., not so much.., am I Way more hurt by Jeremy's actions..., absolutely, and it's caused some major breakdowns for me already. And due to the fact that he knew 100%, and was warned what could happen, and knew that such betrail is one of only a very few things YOU DO NOT DO TO ME.., I'm holding him WAY more accountable, cause..., I was lead to believe he was NOT THAT GUY,..., sigh... And I value her friendship more than his, cause he typically just uses women, hits them, and treats them like ...., I'll still end up smoothing things out, cause my friends are my family. But I will also stand up for what's right, cause a standard must be set.., and damn it.., it's worth it.

[ThatwasThen]

I think you'd do well to just stop all correspondence with BOTH of them, heal and move on from both of them. Keeping in contact with her and obsessing over the fact that she doesn't think like you do is just stagnating you from finding a partner in LIFE.

 

Any new girl you get with isn't going to likely take kindly to you still having an obvious emotional connection past platonic to someone you were in a relationship with.

 

Time to step out of this stagnated state you are hanging out in like ITS your best friend and move on to the next chapter in your adventures in dating once you've reached the stage of indifference to them and everything about them.

[Zenson]

Well said. And I can't say I disagree. Nor can I say that I haven't had that exact thought bombard my thought process. If I didn't value to such a degree what I've built with both of them..., it wouldn't matter so much to make such an effort to point out the flaws in what both of them have done. Cause it's not like either of them..., on so many levels. Once I have a face to face with Jeremy, I know I'll come to a full decision on what to do. For me.., I can't have things left unsaid, cause it doesn't allow me to get closure and move forward. My mind doesn't work like that, nor does my heart. I've walked away from many things.., but will not just walk away after being stabbed by those who I have been there for fully. If anything, I've got a deeper understanding of myself, which will make any future relationships, better, stronger, more trusting, and with less bull-. Much Mahalo' to all.