Is there a name for this guy's behavior? And why is he doing it?

[Rockchick26]

Is he the type that goes to Burning Man?

 

Yeah, that's actually one of the things on both our bucket lists! We have tickets to another festival in September but now we'll be going separately, if I can get my ticket, that is...the person whose name is on them has to pick them up at the gate, and they're in his name, so, I'm not sure if i'll even still be able to go unless he doesn't pull a d*ck move and not meet me there so I can get my ticket.

[Batya33]

"My point is, no matter which guy I am talking about, people will pick on his flaws, then I say 'but this guy has different flaws" then people will say "they are no good either, then!" I just can't win. Like Bob Marley said, "Everyone will hurt you, you just have to find the one worth suffering for.""

 

Then I would avoid those types of people who are so negative by default. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater with the cop-out "nobody's perfect/everyone will pick out flaws/can't win". Or of course you need not ask anyone's opinion and just make up your own mind, trying to stay positive and realistic. Of course everyone has flaws. In this particular situation, I was suggesting that claiming that someone was a wonderful boyfriend and was "annoying and desperate" didn't make a lot of sense with those particular downsides. Please don't take what I wrote to extremes or throw me in the same pile you've created of people who apparently are nitpicky about flaws and tell you not to date someone because he cuts up his meat oddly before eating it.

 

 

Of course you are not obligated to date at all. I wrote this with the assumption that you are looking for a potentially long term relationship. None of this matters if you are not. Being single is great, being in a relationship is great - with "great"meaning that you are comfortable in your own skin, reasonably happy/confident and positive. There are so many women looking for a healthy relationship who have a positive attitude and it can still be an uphill battle and like a part time job. Throw in the negative generalizations and the insistence on "well I can't win" and there's really no point in looking. There will be a point if you get to a different mindset/headspace - but no need to 'get there" unless it makes you happy. No pressure!!

 

I'm glad he treated you well for the first few months. The real test is after those first few months how does the person treat you. The first few months of course have some relevance .

[Rockchick26]

Wow, I have been researching and have realized...this guy is a psychopath! I never really knew what this word meant, I thought it literally meant they were psycho, but it just means they have these traits. And this guy has MOST of these!

 

Update on the last few days; he acted like he wanted to talk after work Thursday and Friday, but I knew he wasn't going to follow through. I played along anyway just to humor him, and both nights he came up with excuses why he couldn't make it. There was no contact yesterday (Saturday), and so far none today either. I bought a ticket to a festival at the same place as the one we went to a month ago (also same place where I took him last weekend), and I'm going alone! I know he isn't going. Hopefully i'll meet a decent man there who isn't a psychopath!

[Batya33]

Sounds like you need some sort of validation/reassurance about how things proceeded and ended.

[Rockchick26]

Ok, maybe he's not a psychopath...he just texted me this just now:

 

""I am very sorry if i have left you hurt or conflicted, i dont know what to say, at a really weird place in my life, i would really love to have you as a friend, i cant make a commitment to you right now. i dont think you want that anyways and you've made it pretty clear that its like an all or nothing thing for you so i dont know what to say, i wish we could remain friends but it seems like that's not going to happen."

 

As usual, I am more confused now. HE is the one that wanted a commitment, now he's saying he can't make a commitment? I never said I wanted marriage, by "all or nothing" I meant I want to know if i'm in a relationship or not so I can act accordingly. And how can he just want to be friends when it was so hard for him to wait 3 months to have sex with me? He kept saying it sucked because it felt like we were just friends. Now he WANTS to be just friends? i'm so confused.

[Rockchick26]

Sounds like you need some sort of validation/reassurance about how things proceeded and ended.

 

I wouldn't call it validation, I am just the kind of person that needs to understand things and why they happen. This was a relationship that ended and I need to know why, don't we all want to know why our relationships end? How can we learn anything from them if we don't get closure and understand what happened?

[Batya33]

I wouldn't call it validation, I am just the kind of person that needs to understand things and why they happen. This was a relationship that ended and I need to know why, don't we all want to know why our relationships end? How can we learn anything from them if we don't get closure and understand what happened?

 

Oh - for me, personally, I wouldn't have been able to learn by trying to diagnose a potential mental illness in the other person (which to me wouldn't make sense -I was not that person's doctor/therapist) -that would have been more along the lines of "see, he's not mentally stable so I need not take it personally). To me, learning is more about why I think I might have chosen this person and/or why I stayed with this person despite red flags (if that were the case) and learning to accept that it's ok if someone is just not that into me (if that seemed to be the case). To me, closure really was something I gave myself as long talks with the person who wanted to end things had little relevance (for various reasons) and if I were the one who ended it it was not fair of me to burden the other person as far as dissecting why it didn't work.

 

Just explaining the distinction I see between reassurance/validation and, on the other hand, learning so that you avoid the same mistakes or downsides in the next relationship. If I were you, I would learn to walk away earlier, avoid making excuses for the person, and avoid wasting time and experiencing the level of disintegration/stress that happened here. Obviously although it reads "simply" it's not easy to implement.

[Rockchick26]

Now he says, "i guess maybe thats why i am so nervous and have been avoiding you, there's no one else, i still like you, I'm just not ready to be in any kind of commited relationship with anyone." What the...he talked up monogamy before we even started dating, he asked me early on if I ever wanted to be married, and he told me it bothered him that I didn't have a marriage mindset...and now he suddenly doesn't want a commited relationship? This is probably a lie, but it sure took him long enough to give me an explanation of his behavior.

[Batya33]

Now he says, "i guess maybe thats why i am so nervous and have been avoiding you, there's no one else, i still like you, I'm just not ready to be in any kind of commited relationship with anyone." What the...he talked up monogamy before we even started dating, he asked me early on if I ever wanted to be married, and he told me it bothered him that I didn't have a marriage mindset...and now he suddenly doesn't want a commited relationship? This is probably a lie, but it sure took him long enough to give me an explanation of his behavior.

 

It may have needed time to gel and people do change their minds. He might not have been able to figure out the source of his doubts/panic and instead acted out (inappropriately ,and unfortunately to your detriment). What he did wrong was burden you with his own internal doubts - he should have been thoughtful enough to communicate "look, not sure what's going on but I don't feel right about continuing so let's take a break/stop seeing each other". That way you wouldn't have had to endure the rollercoaster stuff.

 

Yes, he could be lying or it could be one of those excuses of "it's not you it's me" but either way, he does not want to be with you (or maybe with anyone) so give yourself the gift of moving on and being at peace.

[Rockchick26]

Oh - for me, personally, I wouldn't have been able to learn by trying to diagnose a potential mental illness in the other person (which to me wouldn't make sense -I was not that person's doctor/therapist) -that would have been more along the lines of "see, he's not mentally stable so I need not take it personally). To me, learning is more about why I think I might have chosen this person and/or why I stayed with this person despite red flags (if that were the case) and learning to accept that it's ok if someone is just not that into me (if that seemed to be the case). To me, closure really was something I gave myself as long talks with the person who wanted to end things had little relevance (for various reasons) and if I were the one who ended it it was not fair of me to burden the other person as far as dissecting why it didn't work.

 

Just explaining the distinction I see between reassurance/validation and, on the other hand, learning so that you avoid the same mistakes or downsides in the next relationship. If I were you, I would learn to walk away earlier, avoid making excuses for the person, and avoid wasting time and experiencing the level of disintegration/stress that happened here. Obviously although it reads "simply" it's not easy to implement.

 

Well I stayed with him so long because it never got bad until now. There were WAY more pros than cons, and honestly the cons i wasn't even that sure if they were me being petty or if they were real red flags. Nobody is perfect. He just sent another text..."youre a lot older than i am, i'm still growing as a person and learning as I go. I'm sorry I said anything that confused you, i'm confused myself, I don't think i would have any answers to any of the questions that you have." Hmm. Well at least he's giving me SOME kind of reason here...it doesn't matter anyway cuz we are broken up and I convinced myself I don't want to be with him again. It is nice that he's being so normal though, not like a jerk about it.

[Batya33]

Yes- it's thoughtful of him to apologize. You've written a few times now "nobody is perfect". Obviously. I hope you don't use that as an excuse to settle or ignore red flags.

 

I think it often takes 3-4 months to see if a dating relationship has any serious potential.

[Rockchick26]

Yes- it's thoughtful of him to apologize. You've written a few times now "nobody is perfect". Obviously. I hope you don't use that as an excuse to settle or ignore red flags.

 

Well, love makes you blind, and stupid, lol But honestly at what point does a red flag become just some minor bump that keeps coming up like in all marriages?

 

I think it often takes 3-4 months to see if a dating relationship has any serious potential.

 

That is why I always wait until after 3 months to know how I feel about a guy, and he's only the 2nd one I've had sex with so obviously none of the other guys I dated made it this far. But I guess 4 months should be my new guideline.

[Batya33]

Well, love makes you blind, and stupid, lol But honestly at what point does a red flag become just some minor bump that keeps coming up like in all marriages?

 

 

 

That is why I always wait until after 3 months to know how I feel about a guy, and he's only the 2nd one I've had sex with so obviously none of the other guys I dated made it this far. But I guess 4 months should be my new guideline.

 

Head and heart so that you don't choose to let your in love feelings to trigger the blind, etc. choices. Red flag v. minor bump requires that you know yourself and your boundaries well and that you are reasonably confident so that walking away has less fear attached, etc. Some are extreme and no brainers, others require more thought/self-talk. One of my litmus tests used to be whether I would be ok in a marriage/family situation given the red flag. What is a red flag to you might not be to someone else. Just like with dealbreakers (for example, some people are ok with occasional drug use and some are not).

 

Also watch the feet and not the lips -what he says more than what he does with the exception of "I am not looking for a relationship" -then ignore the "play house" stuff.

[Wiseman2]

Ok that's pretty clear. He wants to be friends or fwb. He sounds like a free spirit.

"I'm just not ready to be in any kind of commited relationship with anyone."

[Rockchick26]

Ok that's pretty clear. He wants to be friends or fwb. He sounds like a free spirit.

 

He does want to stay friends but he isn't into FWB or casual sex/one night stands. I'm still so confused though. Tonight at work was the first night since he told me this and we barely talked, well I barely talked, he started a few conversations but I mostly replied with short answers. Then he said he was gonna call me after work so we could talk, and he's been super friendly and helpful and sweet so I have no idea what he wants to talk about but I am not falling for this crap again.

[boltnrun]

He senses you pulling away so he's trying to rope you back in to feed his ego.

 

No, he doesn't have a medical condition. He's just an infantile egomaniac ( to quote Days of Thunder)

[Rockchick26]

He senses you pulling away so he's trying to rope you back in to feed his ego.

 

No, he doesn't have a medical condition. He's just an infantile egomaniac ( to quote Days of Thunder)

 

I bought a book called Psychopath Free, and oh my god...the similaries are uncanny, it's scary, it's like they're talking about him. He doesn't fit all of the criteria though, but enough of them. If he isn't a full blown psychopath, he's well on his way.

[Batya33]

He senses you pulling away so he's trying to rope you back in to feed his ego.

 

No, he doesn't have a medical condition. He's just an infantile egomaniac ( to quote Days of Thunder)

 

I agree with this. I would stay distant but be polite on a professional level as needed.

[Batya33]

I bought a book called Psychopath Free, and oh my god...the similaries are uncanny, it's scary, it's like they're talking about him. He doesn't fit all of the criteria though, but enough of them. If he isn't a full blown psychopath, he's well on his way.

 

How is that going to help you move on? Even if he has a mental illness or disorder, that's a minority of the population, so the chances of you running into a guy with that type of disorder is very slim. On the other hand, since you can control your own choices and get to know yourself and your triggers, you can consider why you are still this focused on a man who doesn't want to be with you. That self-knowledge is far more valuable than playing at being a psychoanalyst IMO.

[Rockchick26]

I agree with this. I would stay distant but be polite on a professional level as needed.

 

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm doing. He told me last night he would call me (why, I have no idea), and today he apologized saying he fell asleep. I said "it's ok, I wasn't expecting anything anyway." He said "Either way, I apologize."

 

I shouldn't have to deal with him too much longer though, if he misses 2 more days of work he will be fired, and he usually misses at least a day every few weeks. He missed 4 last week. So i'm expecting him to be gone soon, then I can get over him.

[Rockchick26]

How is that going to help you move on? Even if he has a mental illness or disorder, that's a minority of the population, so the chances of you running into a guy with that type of disorder is very slim. On the other hand, since you can control your own choices and get to know yourself and your triggers, you can consider why you are still this focused on a man who doesn't want to be with you. That self-knowledge is far more valuable than playing at being a psychoanalyst IMO.

 

The book's second half tells you how to get over these men and change so you don't fall for them again. And the last guy I was with was one too, well i wasn't WITH him, of course, he just kept me on a string for 2 years. There are more of these men than you think, and most women who fall for them do it with other men too. What i'm learning is we have a set of traits that make us vulnerable to them, including empathy, the desire to help others, loyalty, and trust.

[Batya33]

The book's second half tells you how to get over these men and change so you don't fall for them again. And the last guy I was with was one too, well i wasn't WITH him, of course, he just kept me on a string for 2 years. There are more of these men than you think, and most women who fall for them do it with other men too. What i'm learning is we have a set of traits that make us vulnerable to them, including empathy, the desire to help others, loyalty, and trust.

 

Are you talking about a layperson's casual reference to "he's crazy" or a diagnosed psychopath?". If the latter, of course those people are a minority of the population. I would think that the traits that trigger getting involved with someone who doesn't treat you with respect/properly are: insecurity/low self-esteem/desperation/fear of being alone/people-pleaser,etc.

 

People who are reasonably confident and have a healthy sense of self can also be empathetic, loyal and trustworthy BUT they will have self-imposed boundaries and standards so that they will not end up going on more than a few dates with a man who exhibits the traits you described.

 

I am not attempting whatsoever to criticize you -and I would not go down the path of telling yourself that you get involved with men who treat you this way because of how good you are -that is true and what also is likely true is that you are vulnerable to them because with all those good qualities you are not good to yourself -you are not your own best friend.

 

It's easier to look at yourself as a victim of these men and harder- but so much more worth it- to look within yourself and see why you have made these choices twice as you describe it (twice is not a lot -for sure -but remember -he might have strung you along but you allowed it).

 

It's analogous in a way to how I deal with my 7 year old. He will say "you don't care about me!" because I set limits, say no to his unreasonable demands. He will say it is my fault that he got in trouble for making a bad choice.

 

Of course I want him to love me, like me -but I am his parent, not his friend and I have to put my need to be loved to the side in favor of making sure he knows how to treat me with respect. When he is calm I remind him "my setting limits and making rules is because I do care -it would be far easier if I just let you make bad choices with no consequences and you'd end up getting in trouble at school and not having friends".

 

So with a man, show him you love yourself, show him you have limits and set them without apology, nicely but firmly and without over-explaining. It sounds like this guy showed signs of disrespectful behavior early on and sure you can cut slack but it's a difficult thing because in this case, he saw that as a green light to treat you with even more disrespect. I say nicely nip it in the bud from the word go and if he doesn't like it and leaves it just tells you you weren't a good match.

[Wiseman2]

Yes he does, including the charming/fun part...and unfortunately the parasitic/irresponsible part. Sad to think everyone is just a place to stay or free ride or a few bucks or whatever they need at the moment.

 

As far as avoiding these types it's about recognizing parasitic behaviors and that the hard luck stories are skewed and presented to exploit empathy.

I bought a book called Psychopath Free, and oh my god...the similaries are uncanny, it's scary, it's like they're talking about him.

[Rockchick26]

Yes he does, including the charming/fun part...and unfortunately the parasitic/irresponsible part. Sad to think everyone is just a place to stay or free ride or a few bucks or whatever they need at the moment.

 

As far as avoiding these types it's about recognizing parasitic behaviors and that the hard luck stories are skewed and presented to exploit empathy.

 

That's the part that confuses me though, because he ISNT parasitic or irresponsible. When he was homeless, he lived in his car, not with anyone. He pays child support, he works almost 60 hours a week to support his daughter and he barely gets by because he lives alone so all his bills are his responsibility. One time he couldn't afford to buy more minutes for his phone and I offered to cover it for him but he said no he will just wait til he gets paid cuz he hates borrowing money from people. He also has never cheated on me or anyone (I guess, that I know of).

[Hollyj]

The book's second half tells you how to get over these men and change so you don't fall for them again. And the last guy I was with was one too, well i wasn't WITH him, of course, he just kept me on a string for 2 years. There are more of these men than you think, and most women who fall for them do it with other men too. What i'm learning is we have a set of traits that make us vulnerable to them, including empathy, the desire to help others, loyalty, and trust.

 

I would add: low self esteem and no boundaries.