Is this just "The 21st Century Woman?"

[Ms Darcy]

That's a great way to simplify I think. Seems more and more young people are keeping intimacy at arms' length as you say. Shame.

 

I don't think this at all. At least in my experience lots of people do want a relationship but are more likely what Annie describes or not interested.

[Ms Darcy]

 

I'm the first to put it all on me so don't worry. I'd wonder more about if it was the women I'm attracted to but all the men I've known in life have dated and married women that are self-absorbed and insensitive (like a stereotypical guy actually). Maybe it's a NYC/Boston/DC thing.

 

Really don't know where attractive, sensitive, mature, kind women exist and I'm not saying that as categorization of women. I'm saying it like...I really don't know WHERE they are. They must be somewhere. People talk and write about them all the time. They're unicorns in my world.

 

This answers a lot of questions for me personally. There are so many people in those areas that I know who have gotten married in the past seven years.

 

Of course there are situations where you can't understand why the person can't find someone. But I would suggest that for the most part there is a reason.

 

I have a couple of guy friends who are pretty picky but don't think they are. Fair or not, I have one friend who is into thin long haired bar loving young professional women. They're lovely people but an average looking semi socially awkward guy probably isn't going to interest them. The guy is a GREAT guy but the women he digs aren't really digging him.

 

So in my mind if you aren't too superficial there's no shortage of kind, mature, relationship oriented women in those areas. Also, please try to meet women in real life if you are not already doing that.

[Sportster2005]

When you meet a woman that is into you, she won't be too busy. Ignore all the Cosmopolitan crap. It's just out to make money and will publish any drivel if it gets people to buy it. And if a woman is gaming you by playing the 'too busy' game and/or she believes the crap in Cosmopolitan she isn't worth the time of day.

[mft3891]

This answers a lot of questions for me personally. There are so many people in those areas that I know who have gotten married in the past seven years.

 

Of course there are situations where you can't understand why the person can't find someone. But I would suggest that for the most part there is a reason.

 

I have a couple of guy friends who are pretty picky but don't think they are. Fair or not, I have one friend who is into thin long haired bar loving young professional women. They're lovely people but an average looking semi socially awkward guy probably isn't going to interest them. The guy is a GREAT guy but the women he digs aren't really digging him.

 

So in my mind if you aren't too superficial there's no shortage of kind, mature, relationship oriented women in those areas. Also, please try to meet women in real life if you are not already doing that.

 

This says a lot to me too. Your anecdote counts more than mine. It's always the guy that has the problem. I must be an inferior man. 2 of the top 3 third wave feminism male shaming tactics. You left out that I must be bitter.

 

I never said great women didn't exist.

[Ms Darcy]

This says a lot to me too. Your anecdote counts more than mine. It's always the guy that has the problem. I must be an inferior man. 2 of the top 3 third wave feminism male shaming tactics. You left out that I must be bitter.

 

I never said great women didn't exist.

 

Honestly, this isn't even a particularly intellectual response. It's just knee jerk defensive. You talk about a certain group of women in a certain way. Tadaaa, surprisingly 1) those women have standards and 2) if the women you pursue aren't really digging you, maybe you should rethink who you pursue.

 

This is true for men and women who are not finding what they are looking for.

 

You made a point of saying that all the men you have known have dated and married are insensitive and self absorbed says that either you have a very shallow circle or you have a generally negative view of women no matter what they do.

[TMifune]

This may be very true..but there is no way of knowing if this is really the case with individual people you contact. I think it would be a bad idea to generalize an entire generation of people as being intimacy-avoidant whenever they can't pencil you in for a date in a timely manner (based on your own terms). When I met my BF, it took two weeks to schedule a meet-up because he was in the midst of a company-wide inventory count at his work, and I was doing a 30 day fitness challenge for a charity. During that first month, it was really hard to see each other, because we were busy and important.

 

I accept your warning about overgeneralizing but I'm not sure how my statement implied that it was a generational thing, or that it was all busy people. I never mentioned generations and I specifically said "some".

[TMifune]

...because we were busy and important.

 

Eh, what if she is busy and important?

 

This isn't meant as a knock to either of you ladies, just an observation because it jumped out at me when I read it from one and then started blinking when I saw it again.

 

Maybe being busy or at least claiming how busy they are makes some people feel like they're important, or is supposed to communicate in some way that they're valuable.

[TMifune]

This says a lot to me too. Your anecdote counts more than mine. It's always the guy that has the problem. I must be an inferior man. 2 of the top 3 third wave feminism male shaming tactics. You left out that I must be bitter.

 

I never said great women didn't exist.

 

You forgot that you must just be a misogynist, but she covered that for you in the next post.

 

...or you have a generally negative view of women no matter what they do.

[agent1607307371]

This isn't meant as a knock to either of you ladies, just an observation because it jumped out at me when I read it from one and then started blinking when I saw it again.

 

Maybe being busy or at least claiming how busy they are makes some people feel like they're important, or is supposed to communicate in some way that they're valuable.

 

She might be important. And even if it's not the kind of important where she's taking meetings all the time or nursing sick children, people are allowed to think that their lives are more important than someone who they don't really know. No one knows what these ladies have going on in their lives.

 

I mean look at how irritated he got with the woman who had stuff on but was still trying to work at setting up a date. Anger that she didn't drop everything for him when she doesn't even know him.

[TMifune]

She might be important. And even if it's not the kind of important where she's taking meetings all the time or nursing sick children, people are allowed to think that their lives are more important than someone who they don't really know. No one knows what these ladies have going on in their lives.

 

I mean look at how irritated he got with the woman who had stuff on but was still trying to work at setting up a date. Anger that she didn't drop everything for him when she doesn't even know him.

 

I was more remarking on the phrase "busy and important". I think no matter how important that I actually was to any endeavor I wouldn't refer to myself as important. I might say I have responsibilities, but it's alien to me to present self-importance to someone else in that way.

[Sportster2005]

Some people are too busy to date, or have any type of social life. It may be voluntarily or a situation forced upon them. What seems to be missing here is that people spend their time on what is priority for them. They don't need nor should they desire anyone else's approval.

 

If a man or woman is so busy with their career that is their priority at that time. They get to choose that. If you choose to date them you do so with explicit knowledge you are not the priority. If a man or woman is a single parent and has little or no support their priority, hopefully will be their child. They may have little or no, or chose not to date. If you date them, you do so with the explicit knowledge you are not a priority.

 

If someone tells you they are too busy, their reasons and motivations are irrelevant. You only have the power to accept it or not. Life goes by better when we realize the only power we truly have is over ourselves. If you don't want to date busy people, leave them alone, and they will leave you alone.

 

When someone wants to be with you they generally find a way to make you a priority.

 

It's really that simple and should have nothing to do with gender politics/war.

[Wiseman2]

We make and find time for what's important to us. It doesn't really matter what they claim they are so busy with. After, say, three attempts at setting up a meet and they are just too busy or constantly reschedule, then tell them sorry we're not a match and move on.

[agent1607307371]

I was more remarking on the phrase "busy and important". I think no matter how important that I actually was to any endeavor I wouldn't refer to myself as important. I might say I have responsibilities, but it's alien to me to present self-importance to someone else in that way.

 

Happybear was saying that both she and her bf were busy and important and explaining how they manageda relationship that.

 

And Annie is a scientist and is actually important. She's necessary to important work. Self-important would means she was giving herself airs above her station. She's not. And she's allowed to point that out, without playing at false modesty. But she's making a comment on a message board, using it as an example of how she's busy and would have to schedule someone, not telling someone she can't date them because she's too important. There's a difference there.

[TMifune]

Happybear was saying that both she and her bf were busy and important and explaining how they manageda relationship that.

 

And Annie is a scientist and is actually important. She's necessary to important work. Self-important would means she was giving herself airs above her station. She's not. And she's allowed to point that out, without playing at false modesty. But she's making a comment on a message board, using it as an example of how she's busy and would have to schedule someone, not telling someone she can't date them because she's too important. There's a difference there.

 

It was a general wondering:

 

This isn't meant as a knock to either of you ladies, just an observation because it jumped out at me when I read it from one and then started blinking when I saw it again.

 

Maybe being busy or at least claiming how busy they are makes some people feel like they're important, or is supposed to communicate in some way that they're valuable.

 

I was wondering out-loud if some people who overbook themselves do it because being "busy" makes them feel important. I wasn't leveling it as an accusation at either annie or happybear. I tried to make that clear. Like I said, the turn of phrase is just alien to me. I would think that I'm busy because I have responsibilities......I wouldn't necessarily think that meant I was important.

[Seraphim]

Everyone is more important to themselves than someone they don't know from a coat hanger.

[itsallgrand]

Everyone's time is important, everyone is important. There are of course some people in the world who don't think or behave this way. It's not gender specific. And it's not class specific. There are rude and self involved people in the world, yes.

 

But OP, you can control to a degree who you surround yourself with. If all the men in your life choose self absorbed women, and you don't want that, time to go shopping for some new men in your life too!

 

You can't avoid coming into contact sometimes with behaviour you don't care for, but you can up your chances of meeting nice people with your values by surrounding yourself with those and vetting out the others with your choices.

 

And I agree with meeting in real life as much as you can if you aren't already.

[mft3891]

You forgot that you must just be a misogynist, but she covered that for you in the next post.

 

Hah she did immediately nail me with that.

 

You're "debating" with feminist robots so unless you're aware of this (in which case you're my hero) I'd recommend letting them continue viewing the world the way they do. Your humble rationality falls on deaf ears.

[mft3891]

Honestly, this isn't even a particularly intellectual response. It's just knee jerk defensive. You talk about a certain group of women in a certain way. Tadaaa, surprisingly 1) those women have standards and 2) if the women you pursue aren't really digging you, maybe you should rethink who you pursue.

 

This is true for men and women who are not finding what they are looking for.

 

You made a point of saying that all the men you have known have dated and married are insensitive and self absorbed says that either you have a very shallow circle or you have a generally negative view of women no matter what they do.

 

Whoa whoa whoa, you went out of order with: Inferior Man, Bitter, Misogynist, Inferior Man, Surrounded by Inferior Men, Misogynist.

 

The correct order is: Inferior Man, Inferior Man, Misogynist, Misogynist, Bitter, Surrounded by Inferior Men. Always lead off strong.

[renter]

This is why dating nauseating and people prefer FWB most of the time. It's too mentally draining to constantly say things to impress someone you just met so that they will want to continue talking to you

[notalady]

Every women tells me the busy thing too and I've had many first dates cancell over it.

 

The first dates were cancelled likely because they weren't that interested, not because they were busy. People need to stop paying attention to "busy" excuses and wasting time wondering why are these people so busy and important? Who do they think they are? because it's just that, an excuse.

[renter]

The first dates were cancelled likely because they weren't that interested, not because they were busy. People need to stop paying attention to "busy" excuses and wasting time wondering why are these people so busy and important? Who do they think they are? because it's just that, an excuse.

 

Or do like I do when a woman cancels a first date, delete her number. I had no other choice since the date set and the cancellation came the day of the date.

[FlashEng1]

Or do like I do when a woman cancels a first date, delete her number. I had no other choice since the date set and the cancellation came the day of the date.

 

But how's that been working overall? You do have other choices.. You can just as much shake it off and go about your day until a phone call or text comes about a second date, assuming you didn't already mention one after the first cancelled. Part of dating and playing the game (it's ALLLLL a game, don't ever forget) is to learn to loosen up and have fun. I always thought men that do this (immediately delete/nix a woman for the slightest reason) only build up strength in the resentment column towards dating, and it subliminally shows with the next date. You'll catch a lot more bees being sweet, understanding, FUN and adventurous, while remaining firm in your beliefs (different than this), and confident in yourself. And personally it feels like deleting a number you just got is a form of weakness someone masks as a strength, because they can't handle the emotion or rejection that is basically occuring from a cancelled date.

[renter]

But how's that been working overall? You do have other choices.. You can just as much shake it off and go about your day until a phone call or text comes about a second date, assuming you didn't already mention one after the first cancelled. Part of dating and playing the game (it's ALLLLL a game, don't ever forget) is to learn to loosen up and have fun. I always thought men that do this (immediately delete/nix a woman for the slightest reason) only build up strength in the resentment column towards dating, and it subliminally shows with the next date. You'll catch a lot more bees being sweet, understanding, FUN and adventurous, while remaining firm in your beliefs (different than this), and confident in yourself. And personally it feels like deleting a number you just got is a form of weakness someone masks as a strength, because they can't handle the emotion or rejection that is basically occuring from a cancelled date.

 

I didn't have another option but it didn't matter because I was turned off

[HeartGoesOn]

This thread has run its course...Closed