When rejecting guys gets you the reputation of a b!!tch

[RainyCoast]

Maybe it's your attitude? Do you politely say no thanks, or do you say it like "Don't even try loser".

 

There is a common denominator here, and it seems to be you.

 

the common denominator is this type of abuse againts every woman ever, including four year old girls and incapacitated 98 year old patients in nursing homes (I wonder how they're asking for it.i really do. what was that child wearing? how was that mute demented lady behaving?). it's not a matter of "why is she doing this or that" it's a matter of "why are they thinking like rapists".

 

obviously, it is an epidemic. this mentality is-- point proven--literally everywhere.

[Seraphim]

It's funny when a woman is always approached by douche bags somehow it's something she's done. And when a man gets rejected by women she's also a biatch so she's a biatch either way. **** rolling eyes****

[Seraphim]

the common denominator is this type of abuse againts every woman ever, including four year old girls and incapacitated 98 year old patients in nursing homes (I wonder how they're asking for it.i really do. what was that child wearing? how was that mute demented lady behaving?). it's not a matter of "why is she doing this or that" it's a matter of "why are they thinking like rapists".

 

obviously, it is an epidemic. this mentality is-- point proven--literally everywhere.

Yes ,there is this common attitude that women "ask for it". I swear to god if my son ever displays the attitude I'll knock his block off. But I raised him to believe PEOPLE should be respected.

[Helpexpressme]

Awsome, a man bashing thread.

 

But yeah guess what, the OP does have slight attitude in her post. But hey, maybe that's just my opinion.

 

Also, going from name-calling to assault, to rape is a huge stretch. Maybe the OP needs thicker skin.

[Seraphim]

Awsome, a man bashing thread.

 

But yeah guess what, the OP does have slight attitude in her post. But hey, maybe that's just my opinion.

 

Also, going from name-calling to assault, to rape is a huge stretch. Maybe the OP needs thicker skin.

 

No this thread is about misogynistic men not men in general. Most men are not the problem.

[Helpexpressme]

No this thread is about misogynistic men not men in general. Most men are not the problem.

 

Ok awsome. My advice to Greta is when she hits the town, all men should stay home.

[Seraphim]

Ok awsome. My advice to Greta is when she hits the town, all men should stay home.

 

Or how about they don't get offended when someone says, no.

[j.man]

What does it matter what other person think about you or what they might call you?

 

This is an issue with YOU and your perspective IMO.

 

If the guy called you a for rejecting him, well, that should only validate that he was no the right guy to begin with. Good job on rejecting him before finding out the hard way or down the road!

 

Let go of what other people think or say, these things are worthless and there is no limit to how far people will take it!!!

 

If they effect you, you lose, if they don't, it's NOTHING. As you can see, there is NOTHING to gain from it!

Jesus, guy...

[RainyCoast]

she and her friends are being harassed when asked to be left alone and somehow....it's men bashing. groping is sexual harassement. it is powered by the same mentality as any other type of sexual assault. certainly interesting to hear that a woman's "attitude" provokes that. i find a lot of men (people, in fact) have an attitude, yet i'd never harass them for it and concur thy're asking to be groped.

 

i swear, when any of the gents here (or anywhere) mention this happening to them i'll defend them just the same. that it is a matter of "someone's provocation" and not "someone's entitlement" is simply a subject we'll have to disagree on.

 

in fairness, i agree that it takes a very clear no, not a polite one. certainly a polite one should be enough but in practice it isn't. however her fear of retaliation is very much justified-- and if you have no concept of why that is, then i'm glad that's something you've never had to learn.

[j.man]

It's obviously not the OP's fault she gets sexually harassed. But things are what they are, as much as they should be changed. I like going out to drink and I enjoy dancing, but I'm not a fan of the whole get drunk and grind on each other scene. You pretty much come accross every unbearable archetype there is. A good rule of thumb is "where there is electronic music, there most certainly will be ***holes."

 

I don't know where you live, but I would go to a club that had an actual dance night going. It could be salsa, bachata, merengue, swing, jazz, really anything. Not only is the dancing actually dancing, but you generally have guys who interact much more regularly with women and have a much better sense of respect for boundaries.

 

In any case, I'm sorry you experience things like this. I know I've had to play the role of pretend boyfriend on a few different occasions because female friends of mine were tired of getting called names or getting lewdly hit on / touched.

[TMifune]

The problem is that simply being female nowdays means you're getting verbally and physically abused from the moment you leave the front door to the moment you walk back through it (not even mentioning the domestic cases). The problem is the male sense of entitlement being an epidemic and women being considered "on offer" simply because they're out, because they have breasts, because they're wearing such and such, because.....yeah, pretty much every "because" is somehow to do with the woman and not the abusive demeanour of these...these..these...ugh.

 

I'll preface this by saying groping, touching, assaulting, abusing, even generally being rude or overly aggressive are all things that guys absolutely should not be doing.

 

But, for the most part men are required to be pursuers or they will never establish a romantic relationship with a woman. Women tend to be more passive, doing things to show interest (to guys they KNOW and like) but not pursuing. The problem comes when a guy wants to meet or get to know a woman. He has to make that approach cold or he's never going to meet anyone.

 

It doesn't mean he thinks you're "on offer" it doesn't mean he thinks he's entitled to your vagina, it means that he noticed you and he wants to meet you. Some guys are pathetic, some guys get nervous, some guys are super smooth, and some guys are just aholes. But you can't really cast guys in the pursuer role and then tell them that approaching you makes them an ahole. It is only the guys who are rude and won't take no for an answer.

 

The problem is that aggressive guys read something like this and they don't care, they'll just pursue what they want and "not take no for an answer". Sensitive guys who actually, you know, care about how women feel, read something like what you wrote and think that by trying to approach a woman they're making her uncomfortable, annoying her, or objectifying her because that what you're telling them you feel when guys hit on you. I recognize that you're talking about certain guys, but those guys who are more timid are going to be even more reticent to approach women and as a result women are going to miss out on what could be fulfilling relationships with those guys.

 

The unfortunate truth is that if we're going to tell men that they have to be active pursuers and women that they are passive selectors, then women are going to have to fend off a lot of "pursuit" from ahole guys because those are the roles that we've set up.

 

On a more personal note, my anxiety to approach this girl I've been seeing around is now through the roof.

[Seraphim]

The pursuing is fine I understand that ,that's not the problem. The problem is when people can't take no for an answer. No doesn't mean hey pursue me harder because really no doesn't mean, well, no.

[Cheetarah]

Right, pursuing is fine. I expect it'll happen. No, thanks means exactly that. Pretty sure we taught this stuff back in grade school sex ed, but yet....

 

I love the idea of someone trying to use the common denominator explanation in regards to aggressive strangers.

[RainyCoast]

i don't think your anxiety needs to be going through the roof lol. it's certainly a very specific type of "approach" that she's describing and that's problematic. normal pursuits are not rejected bluntly (at least should not be), and are also not followed by *b!!tch* when declined.

 

we have certainly(obviously) all accepted a great deal of male approaches-- just not the caveman type ones.

 

anyways, we're derailing here. the original quest, about how to avoid this type of thing is very difficult to address. in my experience it means picking out different places. but it is insufficinet. she'll still have this happen on the sidewalk, carrying groceries to her flat, leaving the gym...gah.

[TMifune]

The pursuing is fine I understand that ,that's not the problem. The problem is when people can't take no for an answer. No doesn't mean hey pursue me harder because I really no doesn't mean, well, no.

 

I know, and you shouldn't have to deal with that. My comment was directed at RainyCoast's comment which I fear furthers the divide between timid and aggressive and leads to fewer of the more timid ones taking the chance, which only compounds the problem because it increases the number of aggressive guys someone remembers and sorta makes being approached more frustrating for women and the cycle compounds.

 

One problem is that there are, and I'm not saying all women by any means, but there are women who play Coy, women who basically use a soft "no" as a means to test whether a guy is confident enough to keep pursuing. And that unfortunately trains those guys to keep going beyond the original no.

[Seraphim]

I know, and you shouldn't have to deal with that. My comment was directed at RainyCoast's comment which I fear furthers the divide between timid and aggressive and leads to fewer of the more timid ones taking the chance, which only compounds the problem because it increases the number of aggressive guys someone remembers and sorta makes being approached more frustrating for women and the cycle compounds.

 

One problem is that there are, and I'm not saying all women by any means, but there are women who play Coy, women who basically use a soft "no" as a means to test whether a guy is confident enough to keep pursuing. And that unfortunately trains those guys to keep going beyond the original no.

 

Yes ,I totally get that people should mean what they say and say what they mean. And when women say no they should mean , no and when they say yes they should mean, yes. Both sets of societal situations are not fair. It makes it harder for both sexes.

[RainyCoast]

RainyCoast's comment which I fear furthers the divide between timid and aggressive and leads to fewer of the more timid ones taking the chance

the majority of my partners were not the least bit flamboyant. they certainly didn't approach by groping. there is such a thing as approaching with a normal conversation. plenty of guys can do it. also a normal response to "thanks but i'm really not here for that reason". plenty of guys can take that just fine too.

 

she's obviously describing something else entirely.

[Cheetarah]

I don't think there is any way to avoid it. I have heard those sorts of things walking to work, getting off a train, etc.

 

Once, when I was 17, some stranger tried to traffic me as I was walking to a friend's house. I was too naive at the time to realize it, but a couple years later it hit me, and scared the hell out of me.

 

I really don't like to respond because there is a low level of constant fear in those sorts of situations. I don't know what they will do, if they will react physically. I just want to get the hell out of there.

[TMifune]

the majority of my partners were not the least bit flamboyant. they certainly didn't approach by groping. there is such a thing as approaching with a normal conversation. plenty of guys can do it. also a normal response to "thanks but i'm really not here for that reason". plenty of guys can take that just fine too.

 

she's obviously describing something else entirely.

 

I understand that. It was your statement about the epidemic of male entitlement that I took to be a more general statement about men. My apologies if I applied it to a wider swath of men than you intended.

 

There is definitely no need for men to be rude. I can't possibly fathom where men would feel like groping would be okay. I just wish the whole thing was easier on everybody.

[Cheetarah]

One problem is that there are, and I'm not saying all women by any means, but there are women who play Coy, women who basically use a soft "no" as a means to test whether a guy is confident enough to keep pursuing. And that unfortunately trains those guys to keep going beyond the original no.

 

My suggestion to those men is to take the no at face value, and not play that game with foolish women.

[TMifune]

My suggestion to those men is to take the no at face value, and not play that game with foolish women.

 

I completely agree, but the problem is that they pushed passed the no, and then got rewarded for it, which trains them to try to push beyond the original no again next time. I'm not trying to say that's women's fault, but I just don't know how you convince someone to stop doing something that they're getting positive results from....even if it's kinda an assy thing to do.

[kpak]

To the OP, your waaaay over-reacting. Just brush them off and go about with your night. It only ruins your evening if you allow it to. Take it for what it is, a compliment on your looks that your so popular with the boys. But dont put yourself to their level and be bothered by their action. Be the adult here, it's harmless. To think otherwise is very misandric yourself.

 

Also how are you dressing when you go out? Do you dress provocatively or conservative? The way you dress can be an invitation for us to hit on you. If you're out in tight clothing that leaves little to our imagination you will seemmuch more approachable to us. Dress cconservatively if you want to avoid being hit on.

[Seraphim]

Oh for God's sake are we back at clothing AGAIN!

[kpak]

Well probably because how you dress matters to us. It doesn't matter what your intentions are when you dress but it is a communication tool for us. I dont know what else to tell you. Men take cues from women on how available they are. How you dress is a huge important bit of information to us. Sorry that reality doesn't fit in your perfect little world. But there is another world out there you women refuse to see. Its the side of men, and you haven't fully neutered us yet.

[Cheetarah]

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