Out with OLD and in with....older. Or....Matchmakers, why not?

[notalady]

I've recently experienced this too, and notice this a lot with men that are dating. They claim they are looking for a relationship in the beginning - just to get you to meet them.

 

I think it's naive to think that it's because they don't know what they want. These men aren't all stupid, are they? And this is not their first date. They do this repeatedly. It is done out of selfishness. They mislead the other person to get whatever they want out of this whether it be emotional intimacy, physical intimacy or just companionship.

 

I don't think it's a fair assumption that men who didn't want to commit to you went into it with the intention to deceive and told lies just to get you in the sack.

 

In some cases, yes that's true. Those men aren't hard to identify though. They mostly push to have sex quickly and when you want to take things slow, they disappear or cool down. In fact these are the easiest to deal with for me. I don't listen to what they promise, I watch what they do to assess if they genuinely want a relationship.

 

In my case, my ex wasn't someone I met online. We dated for 6 months, he asked me to be his girlfriend after only a month or so, and said I love you very very early on (all red flags), during the whole relationship he insisted about wanting to commit but would have random freak-outs about things becoming serious (even though I didn't push or bring up anything) and come up with various excuses for the freakouts. Even after I broke up with him, he didn't want to give up and claimed that his issues are all sorted out now and it wouldn't happen again. Of course I didn't give him another chance.

 

One of my friends had similar experiences with her ex.

 

Not everyone have figured out what they really want and are ready for (versus what they think they should want at a certain age), just like not everyone is out to deceive you, it'd be naive to make any of these assumptions. I'd focus on the facts and assess on a case by case basis.

 

And as always, Batya is correct to point out a large majority of people who are indeed looking for a serious relationship but did not want to proceed with you (general you) for various reasons but would commit to the right person.

[Applewhite]

I don't think sex is the only reason men do this. The guy I dated last, defended himself fiercely when I questioned his readiness for a relationship based on his past experience. He convinced me he wanted one. He was fine with not having sex (we never did) and wanted to see me often (every day almost?) and spend time with me and get to know me. He still wanted to see me when I ended things with him, and realized he was not at all ready to be in a relationship. He wasn't pushing for sex either. He even admitted he misled me. Other guys admitted similar things when I questioned them.

[notalady]

Sure in your case, that may be true.

 

All I'm saying is I wouldn't make assumptions about their intention to mislead or deceive to get what they want. Nor would I assume that they don't know what they want. I don't think it matters what was the reason they claimed to want a relationship and didn't end up wanting to commit to you specifically.

 

It may very well be that they will commit to the right person.

[IAmFCA]

Dating wisdom says one is supposed to ask up front whether the other person shares similar goals. I tried that, I don't like it.

 

I am now just going slow, which has always worked to my benefit. I don't right off the bat that I want to be serious with the guy anyhow. I watch his actions. If he wants to be serious, he will make himself clear. If not, I stay a measured distance. He needs to draw me in.

 

I offered this because I began to feel that by making my goals plain, men knew what I wanted to hear. Playing it close to the vest and not investing more than they are seem to be the approach that makes the most sense to me.

[Applewhite]

Dating wisdom says one is supposed to ask up front whether the other person shares similar goals. I tried that, I don't like it.

 

I am now just going slow, which has always worked to my benefit. I don't right off the bat that I want to be serious with the guy anyhow. I watch his actions. If he wants to be serious, he will make himself clear. If not, I stay a measured distance. He needs to draw me in.

 

I offered this because I began to feel that by making my goals plain, men knew what I wanted to hear. Playing it close to the vest and not investing more than they are seem to be the approach that makes the most sense to me.

 

This definitely makes sense, I just don't have the time or the patience for it.

[notalady]

I am now just going slow, which has always worked to my benefit. I don't right off the bat that I want to be serious with the guy anyhow. I watch his actions. If he wants to be serious, he will make himself clear.

 

I do agree with this. But I see that completely separate to stating what you're looking for in general (i.e. Long term, short term, casual etc.) just because you want certain things, doesn't mean you want it with this guy. It also helps to ask "what are you looking for" rather than saying "I only want a serious relationship, what about you?", as they can easily say "me too" without meaning it. The stating what you want part comes after they answer your question.

 

I'm not bothered with the whole staying at a distance thing though. Guys who are genuinely interested make it known very early on by scheduling dates in a timely manner, being respectful, being consistent, taking an interest in getting to know who you are, not pushing for things to go too fast (eg bringing sex into the equation too soon or instantly act like a couple or talking about the future / commitment like you've been dating for years), but not falling off the earth for days or weeks either. If the guy doesn't show serious interest like that within say 5-6 dates, if not sooner, I would conclude that he doesn't want anything serious with me so I'll just write him off.

 

But that's just me, I know you operate quite differently ITIC

[PH Suite]

I've recently experienced this too, and notice this a lot with men that are dating. They claim they are looking for a relationship in the beginning - just to get you to meet them.

 

I think it's naive to think that it's because they don't know what they want. These men aren't all stupid, are they? And this is not their first date. They do this repeatedly. It is done out of selfishness. They mislead the other person to get whatever they want out of this whether it be emotional intimacy, physical intimacy or just companionship.

 

 

Women do this too.

 

Frequently I find that women say they want a man with passions, and they love to brag to their friends about the shape I'm in, the wealth of diverse friends, the lifestyle, but when it comes time put time into maintaining all that, much less moving any of it forward, then too often it's time to get clingy and guilt trippy about it. Women who also have a full, rich life going on seem a great fit on paper, and the OLD sites give them high compatibility ratings, but I've found that if we're not at the same level with the same passions then there may be too much going in our lives individually to really connect or grow as a couple. It's a tough balance.

 

Point being, sometimes people are sincere about what they *think* they want, but when some sacrifice or effort is required they want a very different deal. In all aspects of life, most people repeat the same behaviors and mistakes over and over year after decade. Yo-yo dieting, complaining about the job, repeating relationship cycles and never changing a thing. They say they want a beach body by summer and to occupy the corner office, but they never make the effort. Not this year, not next or the one after. Most people are afraid to succeed. They have failure down pat, and they're comfortable with that. Their love life won't be an exception.

[Applewhite]

I don't see how in this context though. If I know I won't want a relationship with someone, even when I enjoy their company and like them etc, I feel obligated to end it after date 3. By date 3, or 5 at least, I know enough, I've asked enough to know if I want to try a relationship with them. (That doesn't mean it will work, it just means I am willing to try).

 

Why do people continue 'dating' other people when they don't feel it or aren't looking for a relationship, especially when they know thats the goal of the other party. It just sounds selfish to me. And I don't think it comes out of obliviousness. Just like we aren't oblivious about what happens when we yoyo diet. It's not that we are confused and we don't know what's going on. But dating is different in that your actions affect not just you (as in yoyo dieting) but the other person's emotions and mental well being. So that is where the selfishness comes in.

[IAmFCA]

I have operated so many ways.... !

 

In general though, I've held ontoen longer than others would. Generally, I stay engaged until I figure out what their purpose in my life is, and then I am more comfortable that I got what I needed and it's easier to let go.

 

In the beginning, pace is a big variable. I've gone fast if I feel it but more often Ive gone slow. More than once I've been told that a man initially thought I would be a short term sexual thing , and then on getting to know me became more serious. For me, I grow on people. It's to my advantage to go slow.

 

Also as my respect for myself and my needs has increased, I've been less willing to compromise my time to fit their schedules. So I end up slow anyway, if we both are busy.

[IAmFCA]

@Applewhite- re dating when the other person wants a relationship...

 

I don't think anyone relies on those statements we make about wanting a relationship. In a way, we all want a relationship. Some of us have given up, some of us assume it will find us when we're ready, some of are intentional. If the right person presents themselvea, perhaps most of think we will convert casual to long term.

 

I think most or at least many people do not grasp the fact that how we behave changes who we attract (even before the other person has had a chance to observe our behavior). Being casual changes our ability to attract someone else for long term, and vice versa.

 

We keep dating people because we think it's harmless, we are selfish, and because they keep dating us.

[PH Suite]

I'm suggesting, and I've seen, that often -very often - people don't quite realize what a relationship entails and requires, especially since that can vary from one partner to another. They tend to want to fix their last relationship with a new person however what's required to be in a relationship with your last bf might be very different than what's required to make it work with the next bf... especially if that next bf is much different or is the better man you may've wished for.

 

People will say they want to be wealthy and they want a relationship with an awesome partner, but are they willing to pay their dues? Most are not, so they should be careful what they wish for.

 

Everything has its costs, even if only opportunity costs. People tend to live in denial and blame when the piper comes calling.

[LoveSoDeep]

Some very good points here. I think we all know we can't assume any one population is all one way or another. It's just how we express what we're seeing in our experience.

 

We keep dating people because we think it's harmless, we are selfish, and because they keep dating us.

 

Honestly I think this sums it up quite well. Of course I'm not saying everyone is like this but I think in general as a society selfishness is more accepted now than it has ever been in the past. It's sad.

 

However, I don't think it's okay. I can't really relate to these selfish people and that's probably why I am so perplexed when men (and women) act like this.

 

The way the matchmaker interviews her clients I think she gets a real handle on what people really want. And maybe it's wishful thinking, but if I was not 100% sure what I wanted I wouldn't pay this much to find it. I'd be on the free/cheap OLD sites. Plus maybe I didn't mentioned this but there a no sex rule so guys who are out for a good time would not bother to join. In my experience in OLD the more expensive the site the more relationship minded the population seems to be. In the area I live in there are a lot of people with lots of money. Many pay more for coffee than they would for a link removed membership, so even that doesn't bring a highly committed crowd.

 

Maybe there's no way to know for sure but all I'm saying is I hope this method helps me to meet more of the kind of men who are ready to commit and know it....from there of course comes the challenge of finding one that wants to commit to me. But I'll feel like i'm wasting less time if I don't have to deal with the ones who just weren't ready to commit at all and either didn't know it or weren't being honest. If I can cut that population out of the equation I'll feel much better.

 

This weekend I plan to go to a Meet-up a big picnic and air show. Bound to be at least someone to talk to there. Then on Sunday I'm going for a hike with a co-worker. Oh and tonight there's a mixer at my apartment complex so more people to chat up there as well.

[LoveSoDeep]

Hahahah! Okay I shouldn't laugh. I told you all I was planning on going to a meet-up and I had RVSPed to it already. I just got a message through he Meet-up site from a man asking if I wanted to go "with him" to the meet-up.

 

It's just odd it's not like he lives near me and wants to car-pool(he's a good 20 miles north of me through the city so a good 45 min drive plus), and besides that he looks to be at least 50 in his picture! In my pic I'd say I look about 28 (which is how old most people guess I am just on looks) and he can't see that I'm a part of 20s and 30s age groups....which even if he could he seems to old for me.

 

Sorry, it grosses me out when men of that age hit on women they assume to be half their age (even if the assumption is wrong). I know it works for some people (including my favorite aunt!) but it's not for me! I hope there's a lot of people there so I can effectively avoid this guy.

[Batya33]

I'm suggesting, and I've seen, that often -very often - people don't quite realize what a relationship entails and requires, especially since that can vary from one partner to another. They tend to want to fix their last relationship with a new person however what's required to be in a relationship with your last bf might be very different than what's required to make it work with the next bf... especially if that next bf is much different or is the better man you may've wished for.

 

People will say they want to be wealthy and they want a relationship with an awesome partner, but are they willing to pay their dues? Most are not, so they should be careful what they wish for.

 

Everything has its costs, even if only opportunity costs. People tend to live in denial and blame when the piper comes calling.

 

 

What a cynical view of people and how they date/what they are looking for! I didn't find this in my experience and while I had/have a few friends who were definitely unrealistic in one way or another that was the exception.

 

(I never looked for anyone "wealthy" and very few people I know do - I did look for someone with compatible financial stability/values - which my 6-year old child is still learning "but mom you can afford (the trinket he wants) -just use your card!").

 

I think jadedness/bitterness is the top obstacle to finding someone which is why I knew I had to have a really thick skin about dating.

 

OP -I love the matchmaker's no sex rule - great way to screen out the non-relationship-minded types (with exceptions).

[PH Suite]

Batya, I did not write that you, or they, are looking for someone wealthy. I wrote that people say they wish to be wealthy themselves, fit, smart, etc. but how many put the work in? Few. That's fact, not cynicism, borne out of being around the block plenty of times and weeding out no end of misrepresenting frauds via OLD and in real life. It's common in all types of relationships. Business, music, friendships, you name it. Talk - Action = Zero.

 

People know that lack of desire is a major pitfall in a long-term relationship. Everyone swears they won't let that happen to them. Before long they're lounging around getting fat watching tv wearing stained ill-fitting sweatclothes. The baby weight stays on forever. Hubby's just too busy watching football and drinking Pabst to lose that gut. Blame and resentment set in. Then they post here in total confusion as to why their SO hooked up with the attractive young intern at work. Note the preceding sentence was not gender-specific.

 

Speaking of major pitfalls, as a virile man in his prime I concur entirely with the "no sex" rule until there's an established connection. It just gets in the way, puts the cart before the horse so-to-speak.

[Batya33]

Yes. As I wrote above I don't agree with your generalizations about "people". Maybe the individual people you know. Out of the hundreds of individuals I know a majority take action to meet their goals (and of course, don't brag/overshare about it). I think it's silly to say that you'll "never" do anything. A number of my friends and I gave birth in our 30s/40s (several, like me, at 40 or above) and we all lost the baby weight quickly - 5 months for me, plus a ew extra pounds under my slim pre-pregnancy weight. Same with my friends. For example.

 

Maybe time to meet new people - as long as you'll approach it with an innocent till proven guilty/positive mindset. It's a nice way to live - meaning not to be naive but to start off with a positive attitude about people and a sense of wonder/adventure. Maybe try it for a few days when you're in an environment to meet new people. It sounds to me that this is just what the OP is doing - going out of her comfort zone, determined to give this new method of meeting people her best and most positive shot.

[LoveSoDeep]

I think some of the things PH is talking about probably change greatly by geographic location. I know when I lived in the mid-west people were much more apt to let themselves go once in a relationship or married and become "fat and happy." Here I don't see that quite as much.

 

PH I think it's hard when you have high standards for yourself, which you obviously do because it can be hard to meet other who have the same high standards that you are also attracted to. It is disappointing when you know how much work a relationship is and you're ready to put in the work and then all you meet is people who say they understand and then do the opposite. I think this world of seemingly endless "instant gratification" and the belief that there are "more fish in the sea" makes it so much easier for people to throw in the towel early....because "if this person doesn't like me and think I'm perfect well there'a always someone else." When the problem really is that they aren't perfect and yes there may be someone else but they may not be any more right for you then last person.

 

Some people seem to be fed a bunch of junk about how awesome they are from birth (like those people on American Idol who have been told they can sing when they clearly cannot) and then lose sight of the fact that sometimes they need to work on and improve themselves. I used to call these guys "mama's boys" (and it's not just guys) but now it's not just that they think they are golden. Being a humble person...I know I'm not perfect...I just have a hard time understanding this mindset in others.

[Batya33]

I don't know - I like to think adults shouldn't blame their current mindset/attitude totally on their parents - we can and do make choices as adults or even younger despite what messages we received. I tell my child to remind himself "it's not perfect but it's still wonderful" and of course when he calls me Precious Mama I know that's entirely accurate ;-). I think humility from a perspective of confidence will take you very far including in dating.

[LoveSoDeep]

No, of course we can't blame it all on parents. I think society in general has changed slightly to bolster the ego of children....remember that phase when everyone got the same medal? Where they were basically no losers? Where everyone was cast in the school play even if they were terrible? That infuriated me. There's a lot of emphasis put on "you deserve the best!" Heck even my adult friends tell me that sometimes (and I know it comes form a place of love but still). No one is perfect, no deserves perfection....and I dare say very few really are the best and really deserve the best....these are not realistic goals. I think they can add to the indecisive nature of people today....people don't want to *gasp* settle! They see that as a negative thing....well I tell you what I'm ready to settle. No I don't mean I'll settle for something far less than what I have to offer....but for close to equal.

 

I feel like I've been digging through all the sale items on the rack of love for way too long and it's time to just find the dress that fits me and call it a day. LOL

[Batya33]

I think we all deserve the best equivalent to what we put in even though we're not going to always get it because life isn't fair. I am very specific in praising my son as much as I can be - that way it's not this global "you rock" (which is meaningless anyway) but rather "that was very thoughtful of you". And I think we should be selective in our use of superlatives and praising what should be a given (unless that person needs the extra reinforcement at that time).

I don't think anyone should settle. I do think people need to regularly reevaluate their standards and what it would mean to settle. Many years ago I read, in an article in a local newspaper, about a woman (whose husband I knew) that when she met him she knew he was the one because he fit her like a dress from one of her favorite chain stores - she compared it to putting on that dress and knowing it was the one. I am not a fan of "just know" but I've always enjoyed that analogy you mentioned!

 

If I had married my husband the first time around that we dated I would have felt that I was settling. The second time around I knew I wasn't. It is a key reason our relationship and marriage have worked. You don't always have to feel like you won the prize -that's kind of unrealistic - but you should be able to conjure up pretty easily -at rocky or tough times -that you felt that way in the past and you know exactly why. It can make a big difference.

[LoveSoDeep]

Batya - Sounds like you are not one of the parents I'm talking about. Good for you! I wish there were more parents like you around.

 

It's not so much settling as knowing that it isn't about winning 1st prize it's just about feeling that it's right and always being able to return to that feeling later.

[Batya33]

Yes, you're right -it's not about winning first prize as in a comparison to who others have in their lives - that's so important to get over!

[PH Suite]

PH I think it's hard when you have high standards for yourself, which you obviously do because it can be hard to meet other who have the same high standards that you are also attracted to. It is disappointing when you know how much work a relationship is and you're ready to put in the work and then all you meet is people who say they understand and then do the opposite. I think this world of seemingly endless "instant gratification" and the belief that there are "more fish in the sea" makes it so much easier for people to throw in the towel early....because "if this person doesn't like me and think I'm perfect well there'a always someone else." When the problem really is that they aren't perfect and yes there may be someone else but they may not be any more right for you then last person.

 

Bingo!

 

 

 

Some people seem to be fed a bunch of junk about how awesome they are from birth (like those people on American Idol who have been told they can sing when they clearly cannot) and then lose sight of the fact that sometimes they need to work on and improve themselves. I used to call these guys "mama's boys" (and it's not just guys) but now it's not just that they think they are golden. Being a humble person...I know I'm not perfect...I just have a hard time understanding this mindset in others.

 

Double-plus bingo!

 

 

No, of course we can't blame it all on parents. I think society in general has changed slightly to bolster the ego of children....remember that phase when everyone got the same medal? Where they were basically no losers? Where everyone was cast in the school play even if they were terrible? That infuriated me. There's a lot of emphasis put on "you deserve the best!" Heck even my adult friends tell me that sometimes (and I know it comes form a place of love but still). No one is perfect, no deserves perfection....and I dare say very few really are the best and really deserve the best....these are not realistic goals. I think they can add to the indecisive nature of people today....people don't want to *gasp* settle! They see that as a negative thing....well I tell you what I'm ready to settle. No I don't mean I'll settle for something far less than what I have to offer....but for close to equal.

 

I disagree with one point, that people don't want to "settle". Actually they DO want to settle. Their actions speak volumes more than their empty words. They are NOT afraid to fail, they are afraid to succeed! They are totally comfortable with settling. They're used to it and it fits them very well. One of the textbook definitions of settling is not putting the required work into something that benefits you, or into something you claim you want.

 

Your winning team requires you to step up your game because you're dropping the ball too often? A winner steps up. A loser quits and joins a different team with lower standards, happy to settle. OLD might enable them, however the attitude is already firmly entrenched. Conversely a gym on every corner won't make someone fit if they're willing to settle for being obese.

 

Most settle for falling far short of their potential and supposed goals in life, landing nowhere near offering what they claim they want from others - their dream SO, their employer, etc. - and they're comfortable with that because they can just sit back coasting in the life that they're used to and simply blame others if things aren't idyllic.

 

Bettering yourself takes action, few are into taking action. Rising to a higher level brings with it responsibility. Few wish to have it. Easier to watch Netflix marathons and repeat the same toxic cycles over and over in most, if not all, facets of their lives. Everybody's a winner? BS.

[PH Suite]

This weekend I plan to go to a Meet-up a big picnic and air show. Bound to be at least someone to talk to there. Then on Sunday I'm going for a hike with a co-worker. Oh and tonight there's a mixer at my apartment complex so more people to chat up there as well.

 

How'd it all go?

[Batya33]

I think everyone can be a winner if you define it as living up to your potential or constantly acting to achieve that potential -it's not a comparison game.