Big move, big job- Great, only thing is its Abu Dhabi- MUST GET MARRIED (law)

[itsallgrand]

I have no choice I must MARRY her to make it work. Its black and white.

 

I don't think so...but your life. Good luck with the marriage then!!

 

Would you marry her if you weren't moving? I think if you are going to do it, at least treat it like a real marriage. Cause it is.

[petite]

OP, if you are set on taking the job then do so. If you feel marriage isn't what you want right now you do have a few options. One is to move without her and have a long distance relationship for several years, two is for her to find a job there and have her apartment, three you can live together and take the risk.

It seems that perhaps everything is happening very soon, which could be why you're feeling unsure. you've already said you do not want to move without her. Do you see yourself with her in the next five years? Do you see yourself building a life with her? These are the questions you need to ask yourself.

 

Since you've already been there and know what to expect as a tourist, I hope you've also spoken to other expats to get their opinion on the lifestyle there. I've had the pleasure of traveling to UAE, in particular, Dubai many times, and if you accept the customs and laws, you're not likely to have problems. UAE is a very tolerant place to visit (and live according to expats I know). I have several friends living in UAE, and they love it. I hope your work is covering living expenses for a few months at least, be forewarned renting can be expensive. My friends that live in Dubai say in a good economic climate you have to pay your annual rent up front, in one cheque. That must hurt. I don't know where you live, but again, be forewarned life can be expensive. Everything besides taxis and diamonds is expensive. Sure it's tax-free but certainly not a cheap place to live.

 

It's the holy month of Ramadan now, which you will experience every day while there, so definitely ask friends and colleagues the ins and outs of how things run during the holy month. My experience in Dubai during the holy month of Ramadan: Restaurants and cafes were closed or had curtains drawn to hide the consumption of food. No eating, chewing, drinking during the day in public and try to avoid getting a taxi when it's time to break fast. Many people go on extended holidays from work, so you will most likely be finishing early during the holy month.

 

I've rambled on, but it's one of my favorite places to visit and to be quite honest I've felt safer in Dubai than I ever did in many other parts of the world.

[Hermes]

They aren't going until three months' time. Right, Chief?

 

Look, it's going to be all right. A job (in these recessionary times), a new milieu, new culture, new things to learn, besides earning lotsa money.

 

Btw, I think one-third of the population of my own country seem to be over there too LOL.

[Fudgie]

Would you marry her if you weren't moving? I think if you are going to do it, at least treat it like a real marriage. Cause it is.

 

This is a good question to ask yourself.

 

Fair enough on the prenup. Just be aware of the risks of marrying someone in a haste if you're not exactly sure you want to.

 

If all systems are go in my your mind, go for it.

[Hermes]

Once again, the OP did say he and his future wife have ALREADY been to UAE, and are not going over there blind.

 

It is quite human to feel a bit of cold feet when embarking on a marriage or serious undertaking.

[petite]

A little into for those that are curious about unmarried couples living together in UAE. link removed

 

Of course it's normal to experience a bit of cold feet, but at the same time it depends on the person and how cold those feet are getting. If it's just being afraid of taking the plunge versus being unsure if you want to get married, I'd say that's a big difference.

 

Three months isn't a long time to be honest, and especially not when you're planing to move internationally to a place you've only ever visited. Living in a new country with a new spouse can be hard, it isn't like it's just a walk in the park.

[Hermes]

Indeed Petite. I lived outside my own country for most of my life.

[abitbroken]

If this is all true, then why is everyone so gung ho she move there and he marry her?

 

Maybe I don't understand...because that sounds like a horrible situation to put herself in, then.

 

because of the tourist component, its a little more laid back than other places under sharia law. Women can work. I believe women can hold office. She can go wherever with him as her husband, but premarital sex, affairs, and living together is frowned upon. A woman from Norway was raped by a colleague and reported it - he was dismissed and she is in jail for having an extramarital affair - so you can imagine how women are not viewed equally on consentual sex and sexual assault. As long as she dresses modestly (skirt not above the knee, shoulders and stomach covered aside from at the beach, ), she will have no flack going places with her husband rather than with a single man. But the single gal spending the night at the boyfriends will not fly. and if his coworkers are not all ex pats from the US, Canada, the UK, etc, it may cultural affect him at work. I mean, I am sure as a tourist its different and you are a little more free - but then you don't have nosey neighbors when you are a tourist. That is as far as I gather from people who travelled there. I have a family member (female) that went on business, but they were pretty insulated between board rooms, and business related things and being catered to - that she didn't get to experience the real day to day. But did say when they were not eating as a group from the United States together and went out with colleagues that were from there and their wife, the men and woman ate separately.

[Fudgie]

A little into for those that are curious about unmarried couples living together in UAE. link removed

 

Of course it's normal to experience a bit of cold feet, but at the same time it depends on the person and how cold those feet are getting. If it's just being afraid of taking the plunge versus being unsure if you want to get married, I'd say that's a big difference.

 

Three months isn't a long time to be honest, and especially not when you're planing to move internationally to a place you've only ever visited. Living in a new country with a new spoke can be hard, it isn't like it's just a walk in the park.

 

I took this from the site you posted:

 

Note also that while it is possible for one party to obtain a residence visa for their spouse in the UAE, if you're not married, that will not be possible. At least not a husband or wife visa. If you employ your boyfriend/girlfriend, then it might be possible since they're an employee as far as the authorities are concerned.

 

Here's an interesting idea. I have no idea what sort of career you have or what your girlfriend's career is but what if you officially hired her for something? Like, I don't know, your maid/tax accountant/personal chef, something. I imagine she'll be at home a lot so she would be more of a homemaker than you in Dubai, that's something. Have a lawyer help you draw up the papers saying that she's your employee and then she could get her visa that way, being your employee.

 

Would that work?

[Hermes]

Why did you ever ask, OP? LOL

[RainyCoast]

Fudgie that quote! sounds like "we're not telling you to hire your partner but...hire your partner" LOL. OP you must've been in touch with someone from UAE to have landed yourself a job offer, are they someone whom you could ask about this in particular?

 

Also, it does sound like an issue a lawyer would be able to clarify in minutes, I'd ask.

[Fudgie]

Fudgie that quote! sounds like "we're not telling you to hire your partner but...hire your partner" LOL. OP you must've been in touch with someone from UAE to have landed yourself a job offer, are they someone whom you could ask about this in particular?

 

Also, it does sound like an issue a lawyer would be able to clarify in minutes, I'd ask.

 

LOL, I found it funny, but also could work, depending on the circumstances!

 

Loopholes!!!

[RainyCoast]

They're mentioning it...so i'm assuming it is in fact done in cases when you don't just want to marry for the sake of getting in. You may have won the internet today, Fudgie.

[abitbroken]

One fact that I would like clarified - she ALREADY quit her job, yet you are not going for three months? Its a little premature for her to do that, nO? I mean, does she expect you to support her for three months? I think it would have been far more prudent for her to wait until it was for sure - things can happen in three months - your date of employment could be delayed, etc.. Also, did you already ask her to go with you, but having to be married is something you just discovered? Does she know at this point that you must marry her? How does SHE feel about marrying out of necessity?

 

Also, what flaws are you noticing and are they little or big. The flaws of draping socks over the hamper - and it annoying you - that's small beans, but if the flaws are how she treats her family or something, etc, or gambling - then that needs to be examined.

[superfan]

If you are pretty sure you would have asked her to marry you on your own time anyway, then I see no reason not to do it now for this opportunity.

 

My husband and I faced a similar dillema:

 

I was with my husband for two years before we got married. Only 11 months of those two years was spent in the same country - on the same continent. We were extremely long distance (me in Canada and him in Scotland). I went to Scotland for a year to go to school and at the end of the year I was facing my VISA expiring. We knew we both wanted to move back to Canada so we looked into ways to sponsor a partner over.

 

He could have tried to immigrate on his own, but we operate under a points system and we weren't sure he would qualify. The easiest way was sponsorship but since I had only lived with him 11 months and HAD to come back before we hit 12 (which would have qualified us as common law) it was either get married right away and sponsor him as a spouse or take our chances with the points system.

 

We chose to get married.

 

His reasoning was the same as yours -that we would have done so anyway in our own time, so even though it wasn't the most romantic approach, we managed to have a small city hall service, rented out a pub and had a party and did it all extremely cheap.

 

I wouldn't change any of it for the world. We have been married now for 5 years.

 

If you know you want to be with her, and there is NO option in your mind of going without her and you know you would marry her anyway, then do it.

 

You can always do what we do afterwards and joke that you got married for the VISA

[winniethepooh]

I have great girlfriend. My second proper relationship, 18 months we live together, I love her, life is good! HERES THE PROBLEM:

I have been offered an amazing job in UAE and cant wait, we have traveled there and we loved it. Plan is we stay there 3 years make lots of money (tax free) and move home. However we MUST get married (by law) if she wants to live with me and get a visa etc.

Many expats talk about making cultural adjustments when living in another country. One of the adjustments to make in the UAE (and other countries, especially GCC states) is learning how big the gap is between what the law says you must do, and what the risks and penalties are if you do something different.

 

Generally, allow 3-6 months to adjust to a new expat environment and figure out what is acceptable to you and what isn't in terms of how you live your life.

 

Most people break the law to a greater or lesser extent at different times in their lives.

 

In the UK you can get away with breaking the speed limit by about 10 mph without much risk of punishment. Or more, I seem to recall traffic flow of 80-90 mph in some places last time I drove there.

 

Regarding living together in the UAE ...

 

Yes it's illegal. Yes many people do it anyway. Yes occasionally couples get in to trouble. If you are western, live in Abu Dhabi or Dubai, live in an area with mostly other westerners, call each other husband and wife anywhere outside a bar when drinking with your mates, behave yourselves in public, then the risk of a problem is low. But the price you pay if caught is high. Take this as an observation, not a recommendation that you should do this.

 

Until you actually live in a different country for a period of time, it's difficult to know from forum comments and website pages what the situation is really like on the ground.

 

If your partner is from a western country e.g. UK (or has a UK passport), then she can stay in the UAE indefinitely on visit visas, renewing it repeatedly. There are issues with this scenario but it's not impossible.

 

You've both been to Abu Dhabi already so you have some idea.

 

Rather than get married right off the bat, you could consider she goes independently as a visitor for a month or two and see how things go. With the big increase in salary you might be able to afford to pay for separate accommodation for her for a period of time if you want to avoid living together because of the legal risks. Although that's expensive in Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

 

If she gets her own job then she should get residence visa from the company she works for.

 

Your concerns about your relationship are significant.

 

At first I was cool with this, she is totally up for it (OK a bit nervous). Now I am getting nervous! The job is a no brainer I must take it, it essentially triples my pay. But now getting cold feet re the marriage.

Those concerns will be tested and multiplied when you move to a new country and depend on each more than you do at present.

 

I am not going without her.

Reconsider that. Not permanently but temporarily. Put all possible options on the table then weigh them up.

 

She is quitting her job etc

Perhaps she shouldn't, or you should have more discussion about that.

 

and I think its fair I make commitment.

I think it would be fair to talk to her properly. If you can't tell her what you've written here and have a conversation with her about it I think you are going to have serious difficulties with your relationship in Abu Dhabi.

 

Recently (last few weeks) I have been irritable and finding faults in her etc and having doubts.

Think hard about what those faults are and what they mean to you.

 

I would probably have proposed in 12 months if all was good.

Is that what she wants? From you?

 

Now if she is to come with me we MUST get married next 3 months (small ceremony).

There are many expat stories of couples in a similar situation who regret doing that months or years later. I'm biased because I'm one of those stories (a long time ago). There are also many stories of couples in a similar situation who don't regret doing this and live happily ever after ... I think ... perhaps ...

 

Rewind to your irritations with her and her faults. And her irritations with you and your faults. Fix them or accept them or be sure you can fix them or accept them, sooner rather than later. Or end it because otherwise it will end anyway.

 

If you and her don't both participate in this process, and both know what each others faults and irritations are, your relationship will end or be extremely difficult.

 

Its all or nothing though! There's no middle ground. I know we will love it there but what if?????

This is a recipe for disaster.

 

ARGHHHHHHH!

Oh yes.

 

Am I crazy doing this?

So far, yes, but love makes us crazy.

 

There's a forum called link removed which might be worth reading. There's a lot of trivial nonsense but underneath that trivial nonsense you'll get a better sense of one western perspective of living in different countries. They have a section for the UAE, or the Middle East at least. Look for topics about relationships.

 

Whatever you think of what I or anyone else says, I think the most important thing is that you talk to her about your concerns. Sooner or later you will anyway. Better to do it calmly and rationally now than when you or her or both are frustrated with your new situation, or worse. If that conversation is not hard work and stressful for you both then one or the other isn't trying hard enough to communicate properly. If it would be an easy conversation then you wouldn't have been posting here with doubts in the first place.

[winniethepooh]

I believe women can hold office.

I don't know what this means but women can work in almost any position, or own their own business. Women don't work as laborers on construction sites and similar positions. Men don't work as maids or nannies etc. Non-Emirati citizens cannot hold government positions I think (at ministerial level, or ambassadors etc), but both Emirati men and women can and do.

 

She can go wherever with him as her husband, but premarital sex, affairs, and living together is frowned upon.

It's illegal. A bit different from frowned upon.

 

A woman from Norway was raped by a colleague and reported it - he was dismissed and she is in jail for having an extramarital affair -

She's not in jail now, I think she was pardoned. There were aspects of that story which sounded very grey, nevertheless it is an example of how badly things can go wrong.

 

so you can imagine how women are not viewed equally on consentual sex and sexual assault.

That story is a bad example for that point of view because of the grey areas, although it is a valid point of view. Yes, reporting a rape is a risk because it can be taken as an admission of extra-marital sex.

 

A better example is the story of one lady (I think South African) who was accused of sleeping with her boss (Emirati) at work. I don't think there was any talk of rape. She was sentenced and jailed for illegal sex, despite DNA evidence allegedly showing they didn't have sex, but they were on the same premises late at night together. He wasn't sentenced or jailed.

 

As long as she dresses modestly (skirt not above the knee, shoulders and stomach covered aside from at the beach, ), she will have no flack going places with her husband rather than with a single man.

Dressing modestly won't really make much difference regarding whether or not they'll get in trouble for not being married. No one randomly stops and asks couples for evidence of being married no matter how they're dressed. If they're banging in a car and caught then the police are likely to ask if they're married (a couple was acquitted of just that in Dubai because they were married).

 

But the single gal spending the night at the boyfriends will not fly.

It's illegal but common.

 

I mean, I am sure as a tourist its different and you are a little more free - but then you don't have nosey neighbors when you are a tourist.

Sort of true but tourists get into trouble too, not from nosy neighbours but from offended residents or other tourists.

 

But did say when they were not eating as a group from the United States together and went out with colleagues that were from there and their wife, the men and woman ate separately.

Eating separately? That sounds like Saudi Arabia not UAE. Unless they were visiting the home of an Emirati or other Gulf Arab.

 

abitbroken, I'm not picking on you, just I happened to read your post first (I'm not sure why, can't remember how I ended up here).

[winniethepooh]

A bachelor cannot hire a maid or other female servant visa type legally in the UAE. I'm not sure about male servant visa for example driver, gardener but that's moot in this case.

 

It's not a situation where a lawyer would draw up papers. It could work if he was in a position where he is hiring staff for the company he works for, or he's in a position such that the company wants to help them out by employing her, or he sets up his own company and hires her. The last option is much more expensive than setting up a company in the UK.

 

Except for servant visas, only companies can employ people. Referring to your example about a tax accountant position.

[Fudgie]

Aww men, I wasn't aware of that. So much for a loophole.

 

Thank you for posting such informative stuff, Winnie.

[SoulTaker]

Wow thanks for the advice all.

RE Prenup- not required (I wouldn't believe in it)

RE- her getting a role there She is very skilled will probably make more money than me after a year or two! (if she has work visa ie married to me!)

 

If it wasn't for the marriage thing it would be so easy, she would definitely come etc. Its just making it official is kinda scary. Its a big break for us both to be honest.

I have no choice I must MARRY her to make it work. Its black and white.

 

I think I need to man up and do it! Cold feet is natural I hear but I would be lost without her over there!

 

You don't get married in order to take a job, period! You do it because she's the right person for you. I'm surprised at the number of people who are telling you to rush off and get married, in order to get a job. This is all being influenced by money, which isn't a good thing in this case. As others have noted, if you had no plans, or thoughts on getting married before the job offer, then why do it now?

 

Now, if you have experience in being in relationships, and you know that she stands out from the others, then that's a positive (you're just having "cold feet"). But if that's not the case, or you're not in that stage of your life to commit to one person for a lifetime, then you need to reconsider, and turn it into a 3 year LDR (people have done it). If it's a LDR, and one of you end of being with someone else, then so be it (the two of you weren't the best fit after all). Also, if you go LDR, you can always get married during the 3 years.

 

Last, but not least, always look at the worst case scenario for this situation. 3 years of having a better paying job, pales in comparison with 18 years of child support (planning or accident) if things don't work out.

[Hermes]

This was the last word BigChief spoke here:

 

"I think I need to man up and do it! Cold feet is natural I hear but I would be lost without her over there!"

 

He wasn't asking for a float of info about UAE. His OP was about his bout of stage fright (normal) about getting married.

[Bigchief]

Many thanks everyone for the information. So here's my update:

 

Engaged, thats public!

Small secret wedding planned now big wedding early next year!

We are both quitting or jobs have a few months to do then a month off to travel and moving to Abu Dhabi in November 100%

 

Super excited and defo the right thing to do. Extremely happy. Knowing this is going to be a challenge and not Naive but best decision ever. Here we go!

 

 

[Hermes]

Heartiest congratulations, Bigchief on your engagement and future wedding. You sound like a sensible kind of person.

 

The best of good luck too with your new job, life in the new country and all the adventures that lie ahead.

 

Fortune favours the brave.

[WithLove]

Good luck and congrats to you!