Court again with no expanded visitation and now mediation

[Seraphim]

Jim has had GREAT results recently and the court is seeing his spiteful ex for what she is and has even threatened her with jail if she continues to act that way. I don't think he's going to be stuck with the worst case scenario .

[ynguns251]

I can only hope and pray that they see the junk she is throwing out there. I heard it is like $5,000 and there is no way I can afford these tests ( let her pay as she is requesting it ) and also have her take one so they can see her narcissitic behavior.

[ynguns251]

Very true Sargon, She is a master of manipulation for sure and always projects her fears on me.

[lukeb]

she was in a bad mood or something and said " fine and I am calling my lawyer " I said please do then her Dad came downstairs calling me a liar and a loser and I swear on my life I never threatened him.

 

No threatening towards Kelly or Avery just that I advised her father that I felt threatened when he came downstairs.

 

Luke, seriously dude!!! I am not lying for any apparent reason ( why would I ). I have do e nothing wrong except file for custody ( which upset my ex ) and now she is using the courts to hide behind. I can take any test and pass it, in fact I take the MMPI-2 every 5 years as a firefighter with outstanding results. You are like a Debbie Downer and always promoting the worst case scenario but what about the best case scenario and how honesty and integrity shall set me free.

 

The reason why this isn't an honest account is because we get to hear what your ex's Dad said and did but we don't get to hear what you said, just your conclusion that you never threatened him. So for whatever reason you are not being honest with us. The judge is not going to ask for your conclusion, the judge will more likely ask you what you directly observed her Dad doing, what he said and what you did and what you said in return in verbatim. I have no idea if you did anything wrong, because you never told us what you said and did, just your conclusion that you never threatened him. All I know is that you had an exchange with her dad, and in a previous thread you stated that you didn't want him around during your visits. I'm not a Debbie Downer, I'm just more objective.

[ynguns251]

Here is what happened with her father. I went to her house and asked her why her dad was there after we had agreed he was not to be at her house when I visit as I was not allowed to bring any of my family members to her residence. This happened on Aug,3rd and later that same evening we had both had an appt with a therapist on co-parenting. I arrived at her house on that Monday and was greeted at the door by Kelly saying " Avery is asleep, so I don"t know what to tell you? ". I said thats fine I will go up to her room and sit in the nursing chair and then she said " No you wont because my dad is up there so you can just sit down here and read a book or watch tv ". I explained that the judge had said " Avery is to be awake and or ready to go when I have visits " and she immediately got ticked off ran upstairs and grabbed Avery brought her downstairs and said " here is your crying daughter, now you deal with her ". Her father then came down calling me a loser and selfish to expect her to wake up my daughter but I expkained I am here to see her not Kelly or him. He proceeded to walk towards me and knowing I was a professional boxer and also that I teach Jiu Jitsu I said to him " I will not fight but will defend myself " then he backed down. I did not deserve this and at our therapy appt the doctor said " Kelly you are wrong here " and that she should be in individual therapy and not getting anywhere with her reluctance in allowing me parentage.

[lukeb]

That is actually a threat to get him to back down. When you were saying that you advised him that you felt threatened was not really true. We know that there was more dialogue but it is believable that this is close to what happened. A while ago I said that your ex's house is not an ideal place to have these exchanges that it would be better at a police station or social services building. I can't remember if said that before this happened or not. This is for two main reasons basically to protect yourself against false allegations because then these exchanges are supervised and also to prevent actual violence because this is on the table.

[ynguns251]

It is not a threat I advised him I felt that he was out of line and needed to stand down and leave me with my daughter. The social services or police station would not be ideal for a child however any place other then her house is a better option and she is always reluctant to cooperate saying " she is a baby not a ping pong ball " and that is basically it.

[lukeb]

I would take it as a threat, like you were saying, you were saying it because you felt threatened and you wanted him to stand down. Many fights have started with a lot less. You were arguing with your ex in her own home, and her father came down the stairs clearly agitated, he was in protect his family mode. In any case regardless of how you feel about what you did, it was clearly a volatile situation. Regardless of who you or anyone else wants to blame, that incident shows that your ex and yourself are two people not capable of handling a simple exchange unsupervised.

[lukeb]

Setting aside if you think she is right or not. You do understand that your ex believes that you are a stalker and using the court and her daughter as a means to do so.

[Moontiger]

Sounds like you handle the situation with her father well. You communicated that you felt threatened and would defend yourself if needed.

 

Keep at it. Just as the court are seeing her for what she is, one day your daughter will also. There might be some rough years but to have a relationship with your daughter is totally worth it. I know in some states they allow couples to film child exchanges and the like. Might be worth looking into just so there is always a record and her family knows they can't get away with that crap.

[sargon]

He walked towards you, so what? Next time say nothing, do nothing, just stand there. He provoked you, and you played right into it.

 

Unfortunately he can say and do whatever he wants and Kelly will back him up and there are no witnesses to support you, but the least you can do is not create more problems by bringing up all of the "I know jujitzu and I feel threatened" because that gives them plenty of ammo to twist your words around.

 

You can bet at the next court appearance they will say you threatened her father with jujitzu or something. Even liars have a tough time fabricating something out of nothing,it's much easier to take something you said or did and twist it. You need to watch every single thing you say and do, as if you're under a microscope.

 

It blows that they make visitation so difficult.

 

I did not deserve this and at our therapy appt the doctor said " Kelly you are wrong here " and that she should be in individual therapy and not getting anywhere with her reluctance in allowing me parentage.

 

Jim, there's no easy way to say this lightly, so I'll be dirrect. Forget about what you deserve and what's fair and what the therapist said. Kelly doesn't give a rat's ass about you, your parental rights, or anything else. For whatever reasons, at times she's somewhat agreeable but most of the time you are nothing but a nuisance to her and you need to approach it in this manner. Figure out how to get her to be more cooperative, what makes her moods change, that sort of thing. There's things you can't control but anything you can do to minimize the conflict and tension will be in your best interest.

 

When your father calls you a loser and walks towards you, stand your ground but don't respond.. until and unless he gives you good solid reasons to do so. The cards are stacked against you, so you need to be more careful and conservative in your words and actions.

 

You could have just said "Look , I just want to see my daughter, as a father surely you can understand that". As compared to "I know jujitzu and I will defend myself".

 

Sends the wrong message, it escalates conflict, it makes the next visitation that much more difficult.

[lukeb]

Sounds like you handle the situation with her father well. You communicated that you felt threatened and would defend yourself if needed.

 

Keep at it. Just as the court are seeing her for what she is, one day your daughter will also. There might be some rough years but to have a relationship with your daughter is totally worth it. I know in some states they allow couples to film child exchanges and the like. Might be worth looking into just so there is always a record and her family knows they can't get away with that crap.

 

No the exchange wasn't handled well at all. I also disagree with you that his daughter will one day see her mother for what you perceive her to be. If you put yourself in Kelly's shoes it is not unreasonable for her to believe that the OP is nothing more than a scorned lover who found an opportunity to exact his revenge through where he can hurt her the most through her daughter. Whether it is true or not, the OP has done very little to make her believe otherwise. I think under these circumstances a good relationship with his daughter is exceptionally unlikely. Court ordered visitation rights aren't going to change that.

[Moontiger]

You disagree with me. Shocking!!! Not sure what the point of your reply is.

[lukeb]

You disagree with me. Shocking!!! Not sure what the point of your reply is.

The point is it explains why the ex is behaving the way she does. How would you deal with some who you believes stalks and harasses you, and found the perfect vehicle to do it, where you are the most vulnerable, your child?

 

It can be argued if her believes are true or not, but I will tell you this, considering how the relationship ended it is not an unreasonable thing for her to believe. The OP has actially done very little to make the ex believe otherwise.

[ynguns251]

First off Luke ( I do not stalk the woman ) and secondly I won in court on Friday😊. The judge was getting tired of all her allegstions and said that this is basically childish and needed her to grow up to get this out of the system already. I have every week at least 6 hrs at her house ( I can pick daughter up and do whatever I like ) and every other weekend I have overnights, however I do not feel confortable as of right now so ai agreed to have Avery from 10 am till 8 pm and when I feel comfortable I write a letter and sign it and submit to my attorney who will forward it to the appropriate people. The next step is custody and I am wanting joint and I had seen a case before mine where neither party got along but the father was there for the child and he was awarded " joint custody " so I feel pretty good. Kelly has been nice to me lately and advised me that she was told by her lawyer to file the motion on me taking a psych test and also just wants this to end already.

[Seraphim]

Good for you Jim!

[Moontiger]

Jim, everyone sees very clearly what is going on (both on ENA and IRL with the judges). Keep at it, love your daughter and as you get more comfortable you can thinking about asking for even more time.

[lukeb]

First off Luke ( I do not stalk the woman ).

 

I did not say you did, I said it was reasonable for her to think you are, and you haven't given her a lot of reason to think otherwise given your history and your behavior. I just wanted to make that clear.

[lukeb]

Jim, don't worry about Luke, he is in the minority here. Everyone else sees very clearly what is going on

 

If it is all so clear to you and everyone else I'd be curious to know what you re basing your beliefs on. Some things are clear to me but I will admit many things aren't. From what I can tell your starting point was never an open mind but clouded by your feelings around deadbeat father's.

 

Often the things that seem to be true are not necessarily true so you have to be careful to sort that out.

 

I would be happy to see Jim have a great relationship with his daughter, I just doubt he can get there without some kind of a functional relationship with his ex. You don't gain trust through court orders.

[ynguns251]

Your right Luke, this will be a struggle for awhile and I think now that she has to abide by the court she in a sense may feel ( at rest ) and I know as even she has told me is that she was being advised to fight me on this. After thousands of dollars of uneeded expenses I finally get some satisfaction. The system is very screwed up in the fact that a father who wants to be involved in his childs life has to pay all this money to have even the slightest chance of having a relationship. I feel sorry for those who don't have the funds to fight in court and I promise you this much ( I will involve myself in the fathers rights movement and make sure others have a voice and a shoulder yo lean on when in times of need )

[sargon]

and every other weekend I have overnights, however I do not feel confortable as of right now so ai agreed to have Avery from 10 am till 8 pm and when I feel comfortable I write a letter and sign it and submit to my attorney who will forward it to the appropriate people.

 

Jeez man the court was going to give you overnights with your daughter but you said you wanted to wait until you were comfortable?

 

Seriously you can be your own adversary! How difficult do you think it would be to take your daughter overnight? How do you think 15 year old teenage single mothers do it? You think they know any more about parenting than you do? You fight for your rights and then when you get them, you say "no thanks I'm not comfortable right now".

 

I just don't understand it at all.

[Cheetarah]

Yeah, I have to agree with sargon, here. I don't get why you don't feel comfortable.

 

I'm going to use mother in this case, since I am a single one - But no book prepares you for how to deal with your child You don't have a choice! Once that baby is out and taking a ride home in the car seat, that's it. If you don't know, you figure it out. You rely on instincts, common sense, Google, 'been there done that' family and friends, etc...You get my drift.

 

I am just sitting here imagining if I told someone I didn't feel comfortable taking my baby home yet. Lol.

 

Sorry Jim, don't mean to poke at you - But it does confuse me, too.

[sargon]

Jim I read that you are still going for joint custody. How can you expect to achieve joint custody when you won't take your daughter for overnights, even when the court's have awarded you that responsibility? The judge has GOT to be shaking his head, thinking "Here I am trying to give this guy a break, how can I award joint custody if he's not even comfortable taking his daughter for one night?".

[avman]

Jeez man the court was going to give you overnights with your daughter but you said you wanted to wait until you were comfortable?

 

Seriously you can be your own adversary! How difficult do you think it would be to take your daughter overnight? How do you think 15 year old teenage single mothers do it? You think they know any more about parenting than you do? You fight for your rights and then when you get them, you say "no thanks I'm not comfortable right now".

 

I just don't understand it at all.

 

I hate to admit it but I'm with sargon here. You do not want to convey to the judge that you are uncomfortable caring for your daughter. The judge will really mull that over whether you can handle higher amounts of care if you still aren't ready for overnights yet. Do you have family that could stay overnight with you the first time or two so you have someone you can ask questions of? I'd strongly suggest going that route rather then waiting any longer to tell the judge you're ready to take her overnight. It only strengthens the mothers case that you aren't fit to do this.

 

Go buy this book if you don't already have it: link removed

[Cheetarah]

I am sure your mom would love to stay at your house with Avery the first time or two.

 

Riddle us this, why are you uncomfortable? Is your home ready for a 1 year old?