modesty/shy guy vs. arrogant bad boy

[spatzcolumbo]

And so it comes round again to what i am trying to say - at heart, i'm a nice guy. Everyone tells me what a nice guy i am. But what has changed in the last few years is that in a dating / attraction context, i have maybe changed slightly. I'm a nice guy, but i know the subtleties needed to show that there is an edge there too. I realise that women like someone who won't just fall at their feet and do whatever it takes to be with them. I've learnt a lot about using my eyes. I've learnt a lot about using teasing. I've learnt a lot about a bunch of other stuff.

 

But underneath it all i'm still just a nice guy. Its just i do certain things if i want to catch someones attention. There's nothing wrong with that, and i'm still being myself.

 

At the end of the day, for me, its not about bad guy vs nice guy, but about how you interact with different people. In a dating context you have to often have to act slightly differently in order to get the date, or to catch someones eye. It's always been that way, and it always will be that way - these are the games which we talk about - knowing how to interact with different people.

[discordant_verse]

Spatzcolumbo,

 

That's true. That is to say, if we WANTED to get dates

 

It has to be said that its no point getting a gals interest if you have no real interest in her anyway. And it also has to be said, SEXUAL interest is a valid interest, it just depends on your principles.

 

In regards to how we interact with different people, its who we are inside that shines through when acting with people. A nice guy becomes even more attractive than the arrogant guy when he stands up with confidence. Why is this so? Well, its the difference between the uncouth barbarian and the chivalrous white knight. The barbarian treats his gal carelessly and often with disrespect. The white knight however, is a different story.

 

There is that story about squires, quite literally the stereotypical nice guy, aspiring to be knights. Well, squires have all the requirements except experience and to manifest confidence. Once they get into the action however, there are no reasons why a squire will not become a knight. Also, princesses have been known to fall for squires... who then become knights due to the motivation.

 

DV

[Beec]

Spatz shows what is a good thing. It's not terrible to be a nice guy and somewhat modest. Nice guys can get plenty of women. Whimps who are afraid to bust a move don't get many women at all. Bad boys have enough confidence or fake it sufficiently to be able to go up to a woman, let them know that he sees her, at least in part, as a sexual object and that he has some desire for her. He's not so shy and insecure that he cannot let her know her wants her.

 

Have you ever considered the whole thing about men wanting women who are nice and sweet, so that they can be taken home to Mom. But also wanting a woman who will meet him at the door wearing nothing or hardly anything and tell him: "f*** me." It's often referred to as a madonna-_____ complex. Many men want women who can be sexually wanton, but for them and only them, and who appear to the rest of the world as decent and sweet.

 

Most women are not too different, they want a guy who can be a wanton sexual animal towards them, only them, and who can control it so the rest of the world need not know. Often they settle for one of the other.

 

Younger women often seem quite happy to take the thrill of the bad boy, and then switch to a nice guy later. Put a bit of both in you, and like Spatz, you'll be better off.

[Sli]

Just gotta add some stuff to my previous comments about ShySoul's input...

 

Your lack of objectivity I did/do not agree with ShySoul… your principals…honesty, respect, trust, friendship, abstinence, love, honour, individuality, romance I do... these are not in question.

 

There's so much more to this... Unfortunately you made the mistake early on in releasing personal details about yourself, and I know there should be no reason to hide anything, however in offering these facts up they unfortunately undermine your ability to make informed judgments. Your debate and views are based on other people's lives.

 

Fact is there is a whole world that you have not even touched on yet. It is just not as black and white as labelling people 'nice guys' or 'bad boys' there are too many variables in the world of human relationships to be able to put people in boxes like that. Human's are not always rational and consistent, they are irrational passionate and complex and just act nuts for no apparent reason sometimes. Ever heard the term 'acting out of character' You might be the nicest guy a girl ever dated in the whole world, but at some point in your life it is very likely that something will make you 'act out of character' what will you do then? Immediately call yourself a 'bad boy'?

 

You simply can't make judgment until you have seen and experienced the irrational passion of an emotional and physical relationship for yourself. Relationships change people, these intense emotions and feeling are what makes the world go round, most songs are about love and relationships for a reason. Believe me once you have experienced a 'real' relationship, your views will change, not your principals but your views.

 

The reason that I looked at this thread in the 1st place is cuz I recognised Spatz' name from ages ago. I remember this guy from last year, you probably do to. Actually very close to the 'stereotypical' nice guy image presented here from what I have read, but ask him if his last relationship changed the way he thought about love and relationships and you might as well ask him if the Pope's catholic.

 

Remember this thread…Security Tennis… an epic thread about a bunch of really 'nice guys' including Spatz trying to get back with their partners…

 

link removed

 

It's worth a read, if only to prove the point that where relationships are concerned things are not as simple as following a set of principals or a method which you think will work… there are always 'games' involved and you cannot be blinkered in the way you view them.

 

ShySoul…your principals should form the basis of any loving relationship (perhaps not the abstinence bit ) but there is so much more to this crazy game of dating that you just gotta go and see for yourself before you draw such steadfast conclusions.

[spatzcolumbo]

Ah Beec, the voice of knowledge!! How are you?? It's been a long time since i've read much from you, tho i've seen a few posts here and there - i remember coming to you for advice a year or so ago, when i was nowhere near as confident and happy as i am now!! Hope you're doing well!!

 

To everyone else, listen to Beec - he talks a lot of sense. In fact, Beec is probably the person who first got me thinking about all this stuff, and he is the reason i did a lot of reading up on the net about things like body language, and push-pull, hot/cold in the context of dating.

 

Like Beec says, its not about being either one or the other, as there are desireable traits in both. It is more important to focus on trying to get the right mix - having the best qualities of both types of person. This in theory helps you to interact with people more confidently.

 

I know that it worked for me!! Its about having a confidence in yourself that puts you on equal footing with everyone else in the room, if not higher than them!! You've got the confidence to be yourself (the nice guy) but with that added edge. It is that edge which allows you to talk to women in a certain way, but with a huge degree of confidence that you can get away with it. Again, its not about being Rude or Jerk-like - its about being cheeky and fun. It is your body language and attitude thta says to the most beautiful woman in a room "i know that most of the guys in here would love to date you, but i'm not intimidated, and even more than that, i'm gonna be cheeky to you, and i'm pretty sure you're gonna enjoy it!!". It is that kind of confidence (if used correctly and in the right measures) that will score high with people.

 

You have to be careful not to go over the top and become arrogant, but just sit right on the edge of it. Get it right, and people will have a great time talking to you, and you might even get a number!

 

I'm still learning, which is a good thing, but i've got a much better grasp of things than i did this time last year!!

[Beec]

Thanks Spatz. Keep complimenting me, I like it. But soon, I may have to grease my ears to get through a door.

 

One other great thing Spatz says: HE IS STILL LEARNING. Don't stop Spatz. Don't stop anyone. Start if you have not started. I continue to try to learn. Although, I hide from my woman the fact that I have a copy of "The Rules", but I am reading it in part because she has. (FWIW, the whole thing about the Rules seems to be for women incapable figuring out how to deal with a man and otherwise incapable of controlling themselves. Too simple for anyone who really wants to hunt successfully.)

[spatzcolumbo]

Yup, my exact point - you gotta keep learning, keep thinking, keep working out what you're doing and what you could be doing. This works regardless of whether you are playing 'the game' or not, or whether you show more 'nice guy' traits than 'jerk' traits. You should always be learning new things, and keeping yourself up to date on ways to either meet people, or on ways to keep your partners happy, but also 'on their toes'.

[aphrodite24]

I don't know why the "bad boy" thing is so effective. I learned the hard way; that what I really wanted was a guy who "worshipped" the ground I walked on. I wanted a guy who was sweet repsected not only me, but my family and himself as well. What I wanted was your old-fashioned good boy (who could be a bit naughty when prompted ). I believe that girls/women will learn that the "bad boy" is not the way to go.

 

The guy I have now is all my dreams come true.

[spatzcolumbo]

What I wanted was your old-fashioned good boy (who could be a bit naughty when prompted

 

Nail on the head.

 

The guy who has all the nice guy stuff going on naturally, but has the ability to be a bit naughty every now and then in the name of fun!

 

At least thats the way i see it!!

[Beec]

I think the balance of "bad boy" vs. "nice guy" is goign to differ from woman to woman. Some may want more of one and less of the other than other women do. It will vary.

 

Have some of both and see what the woman you want responds to.

[spatzcolumbo]

Yes very much so - this is why i feel the need to be able to adapt to the different people you interact with. I don't see this as being limited to dating, but applies to all areas of social interaction - it is important to be able to adapt to different people, and to have the social skills to talk to different people in different ways. In addition, different situations call for different types of interaction. Once again, it is important to stress to Shysoul that this is in no way being dishonest, and is not about pretending to be someone you are not. It is just being able to adapt to differnt people and situations.

[Jecto]

I for one would like to defend the stance originally stated b y ShySoul, that I am a nice guy, went through high school without a date, gf, kiss, anything, and now I have finally found the one girl for me. I believe that being a nice guy pays off, especially if you know how to

be a bit naughty when prompted

[yahoo2]

The thing is, if ShySoul got his dating act together, he would be one of the most dangerous men on the planet, which is a nice guy that knows how to treat women. Not in the sense that he gives them everything they want, but that he would be great to be around AND know when to call the shots.

 

That's much harder for a nice guy to learn than a jerk, and women will ultimately read past the jerk's motives and dump him for a decent guy-that has game.

[ShySoul]

I'm back. First I want to say that I respect everyone's opinion and I'm fine with whatever you say to me as long as you are not being hostile or insulting about it. This has been an interesting topic and I'm hoping everyone gets something out of it.

 

Second, I find it interesting that I get told to go out and be more active and yet, the couple days where I'm to busy to post is when several people decide to join the conversation. Weren't you guys following your own advice? What were you doing sitting at a computer when you could be out meeting people? Just kidding.

 

DV, where were you 15 pages ago? I could have used your help all this time. Thanks for your support. You have the right idea. I have to make my own choices and do what is right for me. Which is precisely what I was letting this girl do. Doing so will let things turn out for the best. Your also right in that you have to show confidence, which I have. I think thats really where people get off track and I've said this before. You can be a nice guy, not play games, not tease, not be seeing multiple people, etc. and still have plenty of confidence. Meanwhile, its those who do these types of things that are more likely not to have real confidence. I'm not saying you can't have confidence and do these things, but most who do are really just trying to fool themselves. I also like your knight/squire analogy.

 

Jecto, thanks for your support. You have the right idea and I'm glad it's paying off for you. Don't change.

 

Now for everyone else, I'm sorry to be the one to burst your bubble but I can now say for certain that everything I have been saying works and works well. I have been told that this girl won't pick me because I'm not being man enough to stand up for myself, because I am catering to much to her, because I'm coming off as desperate and clingy, because I'm not seeing other woman and letting her know that I could drop her at any time. I was told that she would pick him because he's giving her the physical aspect and she's just stringing me along as a friend. Well, nothing could have been further from the truth.

 

We talked again last night, as we do everynight. She told me that she had given up on things working with the other guy because there were too many complications. I, having the cofidence in myself that I've had all along, made sure she was ok with things and didn't still need time to clear her head. Seeing that she was fine, I then proceeding to tell her that I needed to be honest and that I want to be the one she is with, that she is the one that I've been waiting all this time for. And sure enough, she wants to be with me to. Granted, its not official yet. We still need to work out some things before any kind of commitment. But not only am I not on the sidelines, not only am I still around while he isn't, but I'm so close to this that I can taste it. And I did it all my way. The giving her time and being patient was what she needed. As I had always planned, once I knew she wasn't going for him, I made sure she knew what I wanted. Every sign pointed to her favoring me, not her using me. In fact, things were the opposite of what people have been saying. She said I was the opposite of desperate and clingy. That for awhile she felt like she was liking me too much, that I didn't feel the same way, and that she needed to back away before she became to attached. She started liking me before I was really attracted to her. I made a good impression without trying or noticing. All I had to do was act naturally, not change a single thing. And the one concern she has with our relationship is that we won't be able to see each other enough. We talk eveynight online and on the phone, but we don't see each other in person often. And being a couple would mean having that physical presense - for the cuddling, holding hands, etc. nothing too sexual. So it looks like I didn't have to worry about being too available, just not available enough.

 

And the most interesting thing about all of this is that I didn't have to look for anything or really make much of an effort. If we remember, we met after I went in a chatroom for all of two minutes, just long enough to put my age and location. She messaged me, did so again the next night, and we kept talking from there. She suggested talking on the phone, she suggested meeting, she fell for me and I did nothing but be myself, the true nice guy. There was never the need for meeting other women. Actually, the more I spent with her, the closer I think we got. So I didn't need to change anything, I was always on the right track from day 1. I am, as she put it, perfect for her and I got to be that way by not "getting my act together" or "having game." My act was already together and I have always known what a women wants.

[DropToZero]

My act was already together and I have always known what a women wants.

---Shysoul

 

Enough said...It's been a while, but I ...TRULY hope that this works for you. In all honestly, I would love to see it work, b/c I never have before. I do think you'd have a great relationship if that's what you both want....but I still have never seen one last....prove me wrong. I still think what I think, I don't think you will be with her long....she'll meet someone who will be 'just' a little more available...and just a little bit less honest than you, someone who knows how to be unpredictable, and you'll lose her. It's just my opinion...I don't care how much you disagree, It's just what I've learned....it won't work. If it worked, I would have been dating all thru-out highschool, even now in college....I've just learned what works, and what won't. I'm not some 'bad' guy or anything...I've just learned how to keep back my 'be nice' 24/7 act to be yourself, and FLIRT!

 

Taken from a free email from David D's site...

" Here are a few ways to make a person want something:

 

1) Create a challenge.

 

2) Give her a little, then lean back.

 

3) Give her the gift of missing you.

 

4) Be unpredictable.

 

When you create a challenge, you really ENGAGE a

woman's mind and emotions.

 

Women don't feel ATTRACTION for men that are push-over

Wuss Bags. Women feel ATTRACTION for men who are a

CHALLENGE.

 

When you give a woman a little bit, then lean back,

you set up a "Hey, I want more of that" situation.

 

If you just keep pouring on the attention and giving

her everything she wants, you'll become uninteresting.

 

When you give a woman the "Gift of missing you",

you realize that for women, thinking about, missing,

and anticipating the next time is often even more

powerful than the actual EXPERIENCE of "the next time".

 

Men often get insecure, and feel that they have

to call and keep an eye on a woman all the time. This

is a huge mistake. It says all the wrong things.

 

When you're UNPREDICTABLE, you do something that

is almost MAGIC... when a man understands how to make

a woman feel ATTRACTION, then he doesn't do things

that are PREDICTABLE, women will tend to think about

him ALL THE TIME.

 

Things that are predictable don't require much

thought. They're uninteresting and boring.

 

Things that are UNPREDICTABLE, on the other hand,

require a LOT of thought. Unpredictable things are

FASCINATING to people... especially women.

 

What makes a movie lame?

 

Predictability.

 

What makes a movie great?

 

A well-written story that ISN'T predictable.

 

Predictability and BORING-NESS are the enemies

of ATTRACTION.

 

Here are a few thoughts on the questions you asked:

 

1) If you call her the next day, be cool about it.

Don't try to be too "suave", and don't try to set

up another date immediately. Call and say "Hey, what's

up?" Make a little small talk, then hang up. Lean

back, and she'll be thinking about you for the next

several days (if you didn't act like a dumb-ass the

night before, that is).

 

2) If you email, keep it light as well. In this day

and age, I find it natural to email or call.

 

3) Your TONE should be cool, calm, laid back, busy,

and upbeat. Never complain about things, whine, or

act like you're in a bad mood and need attention.

 

4) Be very cool about this. Don't act like you might

want to get married within 90 days, or like you've

met the woman of your dreams. Give her some space,

and the gift of missing you.

 

5) For the first 10 dates or so, don't see her more

than once or twice a week. Stay busy with your life,

and always have things going on.

 

6) Until you decide that you really like a particular

woman and want to "settle down" with her, or have

a long-term relationship, don't focus too much energy

on the relationship. If you're dating other women,

don't stop. When you focus all of your energy and

time on a woman that you've just met, it often creeps

them out and makes them run."

 

Just....read it. You'll learn in time how well it actually works.

[ShySoul]

Lt Awesome,

 

I looked over the article. Some people will say anything to feed peoples tendency to buy into popular thought. It's not so much a case of saying the truth as it is telling people what they think the truth is. And yet, I can still follow the general gist of the article while still doing the exact things I have been doing.

 

1. Create a challenge

 

Seems I inadvertantly created a challenge from the very start. She liked me and I didn't have those kinds of feelings yet. It was a challenge for her to wonder if she liked me a little too much and was too attached. And being naturally shy and quiet, you don't think it could be considered a challenge to get me to the comfort level where I can talk about anything? You don't think it was hard for her, wondering if I was going to say how much I like her? None of these were intended, yet they could be viewed as a challenge. But I'm not going to intentionally create challenges, there just roadblocks on a road to something great. Why delay the trip?

 

2. Give her a little, then lean back.

 

Ok, not going to do this one. No point again. We're taking it slow, not for any challenge or game but because we want to make sure this is right. Go slow at the start but once I'm in, I'm all in.

 

3. Give her the gift of missing you.

 

Seems she does and we still talk nightly. So I get the benfit of hearing from her often, and this whole notion of absense making the heart grow fonder. Double dipping, getting the best of both worlds. How can you beat that? And if you doubt she can miss me, she's told me she does on more than one occation. She says she thinks of me when she hears certain songs. If we can't speak one night, she says the next day she misses me. She's told me she wishes I lived closer. Hmm... sounds like she misses me. But not being around isn't a gift, it is more likely to be harmful, especially if its done intentionally. I say the samething I've always said, keep your regular schedule, see each other as much as you can.

 

4 Be unpredictable.

 

I am unpredictable. And witty to if I say so myself. I surprise her with my words and actions. She's said I do different things, that I'm not your typical person. That's being unpredictable. We've seen how differently I think, I surprise her with my ideas and believes. I surprise her with the things I say, even though there still sweet. And I'll surprise her with my actions. I'm the guy that dreams big and comes up with romantic gestures that are touching and memorable, things you wouldn't expect. I'm unpredictably unpredictable, not in the way you would expect one to be unpredictable. And if you understood that sentence, congratulations.

 

I'll engage her mind and emotions by touching her heart. When you reach a persons heart, there emotions will start to intensify and they'll start to think about things more. Women feel attraction for people who understand them and touch them, which I've done and will continue to do. I've got a situation where she wants more and I haven't pulled back. I don't pour on the attention, I let her know that I'm there but that I'll let her have the space if she needs it. Pouring on the attention would have been telling her i like her repeatedly. I gave her space, which is what worked.

 

The experience is what makes the waiting worthwhile. You can have a great buildup, but unless you get the payoff then the buildup went to waste. And the best way to get that buildup is to show her a great time and let her know she'll have it again, hopefully an even better time. Take going to a movie. You can watch the trailer and get all excited, but the movie may disappoint. The experience has to match the excitement. So if your in a situation were the anticipation is better than the experience, thats not a good thing. On the other hand, your favorite movie you can watch over and over because the experience of watching it is always enjoyable. Your not worried about the next time, your in THIS time.

 

If you call and get an eye out all the time, that's becoming a stalker. You do have to respect her enought to have some distance, but you don't need to be intentionally creating it because you think it makes you unpredictable or more desireable.

 

Odd, boring is such a bad thing. Yet, I know I'm not the most outgoing person there is, she knows it even though she is more outgoing, and she likes me anyways. We even joke around about how boring I am. Actually, that can be a good thing in my case. Imagine how special it feels to know that your the one that gets someone to try things for the first time. I wasn't going to go to a concert, but for her I'll go. That's a special thing that only she'll share with me. And that feeling intensifies for something like a kiss.

 

I would like this to last, but I make no illusions guaranteeing forever. I know full well things could happen. But it won't be because she meets someone less honest or unpredictable. She's not like that. I'm sorry you've seen otherwise. Honestly, for most people it won't work. Most people aren't ready for a really long term relationship. They don't have an good enough understanding of love, or themselves. But theres always exceptions and I've spent my life being an exception. I'll make the impossible possible, and have something that lasts a long time.

[Sli]

Dude you would be able to give some awesome advice on the 'friendship and friends' forum!

 

Anyways nice to see you back and happy up there on your little cloud.

 

Have a great weekend…don't go too wild at that concert of yours!…just teasin

 

Sli

[spatzcolumbo]

Shysoul,

 

Take going to a movie...they show you the tralier as a little glimpse of things to come...they tease you with it (hence the name 'Teaser trailer'). They want you to come back for more. They show you enough that it gets you interested and you really wanna see what's gonna happen.

 

But they don't show you the whole film straight away. They let the anticipation build up, and they let you enjoy looking forward to it.

 

Same theory in relationships / dating and attraction - show her the teaser trailer of YOU. Show her some of the best bits, but imply that there are more best bits to be discovered, but she'll have to wait until 'Shysoul: The Movie' opens nationwide!! Thats the theory - give a taster of things to come, but don't give the whole plot away right from the start.

[Beec]

2. Give her a little, then lean back.

 

Ok, not going to do this one. No point again. We're taking it slow, not for any challenge or game but because we want to make sure this is right. Go slow at the start but once I'm in, I'm all in.

 

Shysoul,

 

This is, imo, a mistake. I'm not telling you not to be committed. You should be. What you should do is have a little on and off switch.

 

An example. Every single time my woman talks to me on the phone, she ends by telling me she loves me (pretty cool, yes.), but I don't always respond in kind. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. I will not do it for a few times in a row and then I wait, I wait and hear her have a little pause, a small moment of silence near what we both know is the end of the conversation. When I hear wondering should I tell him I love him, when a tiny, itsy-bitsy bit of TENSION has developed in her, then I stop and say, "hey wait a second", acting like I have something more to tell her and wham, then comes in my "I love you".

 

My not saying it created tension. My saying it relieves the tension. Create tension, then release it. As soon as that tension is released, she will have an emotional high (if she doesn't, you have a real problem). This tension and release thing creates emotional highs. It makes us feel great.

 

Now, doing the same thing all the time, every day, being absolutely constant, not moving in and backing off. Not giving and then leaning back, you have NO TENSION. What you give becomes taken for granted. It's almost as if she is not receiving it. It will stop giving her what you want it to give her. She won't have any good emotional reaction to something you do every single day.

 

The good husband who takes out the trash, cleans the dishes and does the wash, all the time, gets no good reactions for doing this when he does it all the time. The good wife who does it also gets little in the way of a good reaction. The only reaction they get is a negative one when they stop doing it. The good stuff they do is taken for granted.

 

But the guy who drops his clothes on the floor, and never works around the home. The one night he does the dishes and cleans, etc., that's the night his wife looks at him and gives him a great reaction.

 

Now, you do not want to be the guy who always cleans and is taken for granted, and you should not want to be the guy who never does either. What you need to do is turn it on and off. Give some then lean back. How much to give, how much to lean back. That differs from woman to woman. You need to watch her and see how she feels. When taken for granted a little, lean back.

[Double J]

I agree with Beec. I could add another example which is kind of different but very similar in principle. When I kiss my g/f, I sometimes pull away right when she puckers her lips. She doesn't expect this at all, so what does this do? Exactly, it makes her want the kiss more.

 

Teasing works wonders, and being unpredictable definitely creates more attraction because it makes a girl crazy to know what's going to happen next.

[spatzcolumbo]

Hey Double J...did you read a few posts back...thats exactly one of the things i love to do...like you can be gissing your gf, then randomly when you go in for another kiss, you go in as normal, but then pull back just a bit so that she leans in more...only takes a few seconds, and then a big smile bursts on to her face, and she wants to kiss you even more!!

 

Its a great way to build the kiss up. I've been trying to get Shysoul to try it, but he just won't consider it as a good thing!!

[ShySoul]

Sli, I post on the friendship board and any board where I feel I can help. Now, I stay away from the pregnancy board, don't know anything about that . You or someone else was wondering how I can give advice on dating when I've never done it. Perhaps thats what some people need, a freash voice not convinced you have to follow any certain rule. Someone who doesn't play the game but changes the game. And I've got people saying thanks and that I've helped them out a lot. Odd but true, you can be a help without ever having experience things yourself.

 

spatz, I've noticed a tendency for movies to put all the best parts in the trailer and then you go to the movie, they get your money, and you end up sitting for two hours at something you were bored with. Appearances can be deceiving. If I'm going to watch a movie the trailer is only a small part of what intrigues me. I want to know the plot because the plot is what gives it substance. I want to know who's in it, is there an actor that I enjoy and can expect to be pleased with their performance. I want to know from people who have seen it what they thought, if it was really worth the hype. In terms of dating, or even friendship, I know not to spill out everything right away. Hence the taking it slow. Once comfortable we have been able to open ourselves up more and more. Yes, the best is yet to come. But theres no problem with letting her now what she has to look forward to. I want to take her out, treat her to a special evening, etc. let her know. Let her know how much you care. Why build the anticipation when you can live it? And I don't think she'd like "ShySoul: The Movie" nationwide. I think I private show would be better.

 

Beec, you love this girl, right? Yet you are making her wondering if your going to tell her and if she should tell you? If you love someone, say it. Don't hesitate, act. She should have an emotional high just from hearing the words since she knows in her heart its true. Why put her through an emotional low just to bring her back up when she could have been up all along? It's not the tension that creates the high, its the feeling of love that exists.

 

Yes, telling her I like her and treating her well will get boring, I'll be taken for granted, and she'll eventually leave me for a moorcycle riding rock and roller. Or she'll wonder how lucky she is to have found someone like me. I'm not trying to get an emotional reaction from her, I'm trying to be nice and do the right thing. The emotional reaction will take care of itself. I loved the talk of the husband and wife, though its inaccurate. The husband who is a slob and then decides to do the chores one day will get praised that one day, assuming she can believe it, and get nagged at for not doing it the rest. Meanwhile the guy who does his share all the time won't get the one night of praise, but will get a steady constant stream of gratitude. The guy who does it once in a blue moon will get a view nights of "sleep on the couch." Plenty of women appreciate someone who is willing to be Mr. Mom.

 

Yes, you don't want to be taken for granted. But the way to avoid it isn't to lean back, its to talk things out. Say you are feeling unappreciated and work it out with some sort of compromise or solution. Talking does wonders.

 

Double J, like I told spatz, the kiss is what she wants. If you care about each other and both want the kiss, then kiss. Why delay something you both want? The waiting doesing make it better, the kiss is going to be wonderful regardless because of the love and emotion put into it. And again, I'm unpredictable, just not in the ways you would expect. I mean, if everyone thinks that pulling back makes you unpredictable, then everyone will start doing it, and it will gradually become expected that you are going to do that. Then it becomes predictable. Meanwhile, the unpredictable thing is to be the one person not playing those kinds of games. It makes you the exception, something surprising to find and you become more special for it.

[spatzcolumbo]

hehehe

 

I can't wait for you to finally be in the position to kiss someone, and then you will see exactly what we mean about the whole pulling back for a few seconds.

 

Right Friday night, off out, no time to post now!!

 

have a good weekend everyone - no doubt i'll be back online tomorrow!!

[Beec]

Beec, you love this girl, right? Yet you are making her wondering if your going to tell her and if she should tell you? If you love someone, say it. Don't hesitate, act. She should have an emotional high just from hearing the words since she knows in her heart its true. Why put her through an emotional low just to bring her back up when she could have been up all along? It's not the tension that creates the high, its the feeling of love that exists.

 

She knows I love her, she has heard it many times. But, that does not mean you can have no tension. You must have some tension, or you will be taken for granted. Simply put, unless you have some bit of emotional downard movement, you will not be able to take her higher. So, you go up and down, in order to make her get that high.

 

dreamweaverdude's sign off on his post is very applicable:

 

Absense is to love what wind is to fire; it extinguishes the small, it inflames the great.” — Bussy-Rabutin, French soldier and writer (1618-1693)

 

 

Also, I think you need a little taoist thought:

 

Without the high there is no low.

Without the dark, there is no light.

Without the heavy, there is no light, and

Without the yin, there is no yang.

 

____________________________________________________

 

Or as Lao Tzu wrote in Chapter 2 of the Tao De Ching:

 

When people see some things as beautiful,

other things become ugly.

When people see some things as good,

other things become bad.

 

Being and non-being create each other.

Difficult and easy support each other.

Long and short define each other.

High and low depend on each other.

Before and after follow each other.

 

thereforeeee the Master

acts without doing anything

and teaches without saying anything.

Things arise and she lets them come;

things disappear and she lets them go.

She has but doesn't possess,

acts but doesn't expect.

When her work is done, she forgets it.

That is why it lasts forever.

___________________________________________________

 

Of course, you can resisit if you want. But, I am just trying to tell you what works and works for the long haul. Based on much reading, research and experience. You might change your mind with soem mroe experience, but time will tell.

[discordant_verse]

Shysoul,

 

stop wasting breath. Get in a relationship and figure it out for yourself.

 

Then you can speak from experience.

 

I do admire your convictions. A word of caution. When you have too many principles, it becomes like a cage. A cage that prevents change, prevents growth. Practice wisdom in thought and action.

 

Look at the people who are speaking here. Think: is there merit to their words? Ask why they say these things and keep them in mind.

 

I can only speak so much in your defence. I believe that everyone is entitled to their point of view and they are always of merit. I believe that sometimes, experts dont know everything. Sometimes, even amatuers are capable of genius. But it still has to be proven.

 

 

I do agree with Beec, you need to create and sustain chemistry in a relationship. It is a fact of life that people take things for granted. In order to avoid this, there must be a give and take, back and forth, up-down interplay. If all you do is give and give and give, you're just setting yourself up to be taken for granted. That's not chemistry. Saying "no" every so often or a "thinking about it" once in a while is a good thing - for yourself and your relationship.

 

For example, when asked by a girl the ever silly question "Do you like/love me?" there are two reactions:

 

1. "Of course I do" - which is pretty much meaningless because the confession is illicited instead of given freely.

 

2. Give a vague look and say that you're thinking about it. When she pouts, smile and show her you love her. THAT is chemistry in the making.

 

Like it or not, you have to keep the chemistry going in a relationship. Because once that is gone, the relationship becomes dull and the lovers become susceptible to temptation outside.

 

DV