modesty/shy guy vs. arrogant bad boy

[ShySoul]

link removed

 

Read it, at least someone gets it. It comes down to what you want and standing for what your heart and soul tells you is right. I'm not being stubborn or afraid of trying anything. I'm standing up for what is right and willing to subject myself to constant criticism because I believe it with everything I am. It's constantly been "nice guys are whimps" or "it'll never work, you have to change." But everyone has been so quick to assume that it's being nice is the problem, when in fact thats been the greatest strength you can have. If something doesn't work, there is another reason and the "nice guy" label is just the convenient excuse so a guy doesn't have to face the real issue.

 

You want to know what a nice guy is? It's not a whimp, a wuss, or someone who lets himself gets walked on. It's this:

 

"Being a 'nice guy' simply should identify one's lifestyle to practice that which we hope to find scarcely in mankind... Kindness. The willingness to respect and treat others with the same measure we hope for ourselves. I say 'hope', for true virtue will extend these kindnesses even to those who fail to give them in return."

 

As I've always said, it is doing what's right because it is right. It's about being respectful and kind. Not only do girls want this, we all do.

 

To those who say that selfishness is ok or that you have to play games, show a lack of interest, or demand things your way:

 

"But search among those who abuse leadership... the arrogant, the gang-member, the wife-abuser, the quick-tempered, the violent, the insensitive, the demanding.. and you will find that in place of courage they have substituted nothing more than bold Selfishness. This being the very opposite of Love coincidentally."

 

What your doing won't lead you to love or success because you don't even know what love is.

 

"Being kind has been misunderstood as synonymous with being weak, effeminate, or unmanly."

 

A real man, a strong man, is willing to be kind and considerate. He doesn't play games or think about what he gets from something. He gives to give and if it is right she should respond in kind. When two people give unselfishly, when they though out all games or rules, then you have a real relationship.

 

"The only thing necessary for evil men to succeed is that good men do nothing." Any selfish-hearted windbag can stand up and demand this or that with no more than a bellow of hot air and the threat of his exaggerated might. But who amongst all other men, will use the true elements of Leadership... Courage and Kindness?"

 

That's what I'm doing. Standing up for all the nice guys who know that kindness, honesty, respect are what's important.

 

"But sooner or later I believe each man has to ask himself, "Of what good are my beliefs concerning love, respect, kindness.. if I never make a stand to defend and lead in such areas?" Unkind men, or shall I say... not-nice-guys, are willing to make a noise and live by their creeds of selfishness and callousness even at great cost to themselves. And though no one observing can really endorse their foolishness, they quietly compliment the arrogance it takes to do so."

 

Notice how much noise is made by so many guys who claim that being a nice guy doesn't pay? And how quick guys are to back them up. But in the end you will only hurt yourself. Maybe the reason so many guys are so bound and determined to say nice guys don't win is because they know in their heart that they do win? And since I'm sure someone would jump at the chance to turn that around on me, I've been defending my stance so fiercly because 1) I believe in it with everything I am 2) it works 3) no one else seems willing to do so and us nice guys need a voice too.

 

"But as a true, bona-fide, trying-your-damnedest-to-be-a Nice Guy.. as soon as you screw up it'll fly back in your face faster than you can say, "Uh-oh." And you will fail. That much is unavoidable. And therein lies the fear. But when you want it bad enough, when you're ready to begin leading... you lead as best you can against the odds, whether anyone follows or not, and surely whether or not some woman decides to give you her heart or not. And when you're done wiping the mud off your face you get back up again and continue on your course. And day by day you make it known, "This is where I'm going." And you lead. "

 

How often do us nice guys get it thrown in our face that we haven't had a relationship so we can't possible know what we are talking about? Sure, we have failed to get possible relationships in the past. Sure, some girls may think of us as only friends. But we don't change. We don't change because we know who we are, and we know where we are going. We lead by example, knowing that being a nice guy is right and that in the end someone will come along and respect that. So all nice guys, don't listen to anyone else. Don't play games, don't tease. Don't develop an edge, you've already got all the edge you need. Your so far ahead of the "game" that all these other players can't see you. In the meantime everyone who says you have to play the game, there the ones being played by the game. Come on nice guys, stand up and say your proud of who you are. Stick to your beliefs and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

 

(Hmmm... maybe I should see if Bush needs a new speechwriter )

[yahoo2]

Being "so far ahead of the game" that you do not get women is not a place that most guys want to be, and they very much want to improve. They do not want to wait for the right one; they want to change their behavior so they can attract the right one without having to wait for years. Most men want to be successful at dating women. Is this surprising?

 

All we are doing is discussing why certain behaviors work, and what you are acknowledging is that your behaviors do nøt work. You don't offer much hope, since your dating life is extremely undistinguished.

 

Not a very sound endorsement, so you'll have to excuse us if we think your determination to offer relationship advice is well intentioned, but naive and rather odd. You seem much less interested in dating successfully than defending your point of view at all costs. My take is that your personal honor has to be defended in this series of posts. Whether or not your advice works seems moot to you, which indicates low interest in dating and women in general.

 

It's nice to be wedded to a principle, but this is about dating, remember? "Standing for what your heart and soul tells you is right" isn't the point. You want to see this as a morality or nobility issue. It is not. It is about dating women. Successfully. To do so, successfully, does not require you to compromise anything, just change behavior that has not worked in the past. Learning from past mistakes in failing to attract women does not involve "selling out."

 

ShySoul, you are determined to ride this post and topic all the way to the end, so everyone reads your point of view. Fine, that's you're business. Just don't proclaim your actions to be a winning policy with women until you know it to be so.

 

What else can we think? Get some success with women, then presume to offer advice.

[ShySoul]

yahoo,

 

Right, who wants to be ahead of the game? Who wants to be called the perfect guy and have ever girl he talks to telling him how well he understands women? Who wants to have a clear vision of what love and romance is? Who wants to know that there true love will be there when the time is right? Why have all that when you can be struggling in the "dating game?" Yeah, lets drive ourselves crazy with preconceived notions of how a person is suppose to act, try to figure out all the games being played, only to find out your too slow and theres another way taking its place. Yeah, lets improve and change our behavior to suit what everyone says you have to do when deep down we already know who we are and should just be doing that instead.

 

Why is everyone so quick to assume they must be the one doing something wrong? Perhaps it's their fault for not seeing what a great person you are? And if someone is the right one they shouldn't expect you to change your behavior one bit. They should love you for you and not want you to change.

 

I've always acknowledged that my behavior does work. I mentioned in another one of these posts about a guy that messaged me saying that he agreed with me and that being a true nice guy will lead you to success. He found the love of his life out of the play, not going around dating to find her, and she appreciates the fact that he is a gentleman with no games or teasing involved. In fact, he said he was about to ask her to marry him and judging from how things sound, with her saying he's the man of her dreams, I'm pretty certain the answer was a yes. How's that for success, marriage. The only reason it hasn't "worked" for me yet is becuase I haven't found the right person with whom I really connect.

 

For such naive and odd advice, I sure do seem to get alot of requests for help and thank you's from people whom I've gave advice to. Seems like my advice is working for a good number of people.

 

When you think about it, what does dating successfully even mean? At what point does it become a success? Is it a success when you ask the person? If she says yes? If you have a relationship? If you end up married? From all of your guys perspective, success is equivalent to dating lots of people and having a relationship. Big deal, if the relationship goes nowhere then you'll be right back in the same place you started at. In my mind sucess comes from staying true to yourself and finding one special person who loves, understand, and appreciates you for you and will spend the rest of your life together. And you guys have even admitted that my way gets you that.

 

Personal honor only began to play a very small role in this when my beliefs and values, and my extension me, started to get attacked. I don't back known when under fire, I fight harder. When I know that my advice works because I have seen it work firsthand, and when I get told I can't possible understand love, then I have to respond. And wasn't it you yahoo who crossed the line and started making negative remarks about someone I care about and then insulting me? When people do something like that, do you blame the person for standing up and not backing down?

 

Low interest in dating and women? Haven't you been paying attention? Don't you remember those Pm's I sent you? I like and apprreciate women far more than most guys probably to. Hence the reason I took the time to learn what they like from the source themselvesm, by talking with them, instead of assuming I know all about them. And in case you hadn't noticed, there seems to be a good number of girls agreeing with me on these things.

 

What you see as past mistakes, I see as relationships that simply we're not ment to be. What you see as failure, I see success. True nice guy is who I am, and its who girls seem to like. Nice guy has never been the issue with me, thats always been my biggest strength. If only you could see the value in it instead of assuming its a negative thing.

[yahoo2]

Let's DATE, and get women. That needs to be you.

 

Not hypothesize like you are doing, taking comfort in what women say.

 

What women say they want is different from what they do. Men who date know this. You do not. Your past failures are confirmation of this.

 

You need experience. Then you may state that your ideas work.

 

It's not a personal crusade, like you are making it. It's dating women.

That's all.

 

You do not date women, you do not touch them in an intimate way. You've never had a girlfriend. You've never even kissed a woman before. Yet somehow you have an unshakeable belief, based on nothing at all, and cling to it so determinedly that somehow this trumps actual, real life experience.

 

Odd. And somewhat delusional.

[sasha505]

I don't think it's about being a nice guy or a bad boy, to me, a guy is either exciting and fun or predictable and dull.

 

If you can be a nice guy, who's confident and a lot of fun to be around, I'll pick you over an arrogant jerk of a guy any day.

[avman]

This topic now closed due to continued disrespect.