Another online daing journal

[reinventmyself]

Not much to report. I spent a day and half with S before his next trip which was today. He'll return on Saturday.

I tabled my insecurities as expected. Not much I could do about seeing he hasn't given me any reasons to not trust him.

Add in that on one the groups excursions, (whale watching) he bought me a tshirt and necklace while in the company of these women. So it's hard to imagine him having anything but good intentions. .

 

Also as expected, seeing our time together is brief, with long absences, it's nothing but honeymoon time.

Things are good in this respect but I know it's not indicative of what a normal life relationship would be like. .but at the same I trying to not borrow trouble and just enjoy it for what it is.

 

This pace will ease up by the end of May and seeing each other regularly will be back in place.

In between we do spend hours skyping in the evenings. This in itself has been good. Filling in a lot of space with philosophical conversations that we wouldn't otherwise be having. . at least not at the end of 4 months.

 

I really admire and respect him. Sadly, I can't say that about the men in my past life.

[reinventmyself]

I had a challenging talk with S last night.

There were some things that were building up for me and I didn't want to put it off any longer.

I realize each one of us has sensitivities where relationships are concerned.

He has trust issues and I have issues with fear of being controlled.

It seems these two very things are triggered in each other and it creates this cycle. When you think about it long enough, this is a rough combination.

 

S is gone a lot. I spend a lot of my time with my friends, men and women in nicer restaurants in the evening listening to music while he's away.

This was an issue in the beginning as S is a little more conservative than I am and up until he met me he had no other reason but to think the only reason women go to bars is to meet men.

I suppose if you have this belief and we are now a couple, what would be the purpose of me still going? He hasn't said that. .but I can't help but think he's wondered it once or twice before. But if you know me and my friends, it's not why we go. It's the camaraderie and outlet.

 

I have taken S, he has met my friends and is a little more comfortable with my lifestyle. While he's gone he does ask questions that start out as casual small talk but along they way they tend to cross over to what could be considered an inquisition. I try to be patient and transparent and he's been pretty good at keeping his insecurities in check. But as much as according me to me, he's teeters crossing the line by asking too many questions. .I can often smell control when it's not even there. But my patience is getting weary.

 

Last weekend we had a tentative time to Skype, yet I was out with my friends. I left early feeling resentful because I wasn't leaving because I was ready or I wanted to, but rather because I felt like I had to. I was concerned the S would have been upset had I not kept my commitment to Skype at time discussed. I was running late so I called him on the phone my way home instead and I wasn't unable to hide my annoyed attitude.

S in turn actually felt pretty bad that I left before I was ready and understood how I felt.

He was kind and generous about it, but I couldn't regroup my attitude in that moment.

 

I shared with him that it's these things that feel controlling. .and being accountable. .though being accountable to some degree is part of being in a relationship.

Having been in controlling relationships I tend to swing too far the to other side and don't want to answer to anyone at all, but I am working on it.

Navigating the two in a healthy relationship is honestly challenging for me. I can get easily defensive and want to push him away.

S was honest and has owned his part in the insecurities and admits maybe he asks me too many questions at times and he was glad I brought to his attention.

 

I shared with him while he was away with the 4 women, I asked him how he might feel is the tables were reversed. He smirked and repeated in a playful mocking way. `well, I guess you'll just have to trust me then' Which is something I say to him. Fair enough. I dropped the conversation. Though one week later he is asking for reassurance I am reminded again the double standard that existed. I shared that with him and he apologized and said he understood how I might have felt.

 

S can compliment me and tell me that I don't need to wear makeup when I complain (allergic, tho I wear it anyway) It's a compliment but if I am being hypersensitive I hear it as control. I don't need to blow dry my hair, because he likes it curly. I don't need to wear thong underwear if it's uncomfortable or shave all my body hair off of certain private areas just for him. Now, there is two ways to hear this. He is either being sensitive and complimentary or if you come from an abusive marriage where my ex told me what to wear, what to say and how to act. . .someone like me wonders if it's about being conditioned and controlled. I am not proud of this but it's true.

Uhg. . This is such a testimony of the damage unhealthy relationships do to you and no matter how much time goes by and the money invested in therapy, intimate relationships cause these things to revisit. So I spend a lot of time discerning what's mine. .because it's there. .And what's his . .because he respectfully owns it.

 

The good news is we are responsible and willing to work at doing things differently

 

It's hard when the very things we trigger in each other, the reaction causes the other to be triggered.

It was good to put into to words. .hear someone, understand and be heard in return.

 

In the end, in the scheme of things this is minor. . when everything else is so good.

The rest remains to be seen . .

[Fudgie]

I'm afraid I don't really have any advice. As you know, I was in an emotionally controlling relationship too once and yeah, it really ruined me mentally for a while. I still feel the effects.

 

My ex N used to tell me, you don't have to wear make-up, you don't have to do x y z, and honestly, it was all well and fine. The issue is not that someone thinks that, it's what they do when you deviate from that. My relationship with N got really bad when he went from just complimenting me like that to not appeciating me when I wore something different and/or he would insist I change. I still remember wearing pajama pants (and not form fitting ones at all, they were loose (over one size too big) and comfy) and he kept saying "So and so is coming over (his friend), you don't have to wear that, you can put something else on, etc". It bugged me and I asked why and he finally said "I don't like how it makes your butt look. You need to put on something else" and he pointed to a bar of pants that were 2-3 sizes too big.

 

That is how you can determine control. If you put make-up on and doll yourself up well really well for a date with him (in public), what does S say? If he sees you put make up on before a grocery store or seeing some friends, what does he say? If he's just saying "You don't need it" when he hears you complain, it's fine, he's just responding to your discomfort. But if you see him say it during times where he doesn't actually want you to wear it, then it could be a sign of control.

 

The icing on the cake for me was when my ex could not, I repeat, could not handle me wearing a Renaissance costume at a Ren fair. He was there with me and dressed up too! There was some cleavage (I was in a corset) but that's typical of some Ren costumes. Again, we were side by side the whole time and no one was flirting with me or anything. It was a classic case of "You are mine and I don't want to risk anyone else seeing you as attractive even though you are with me and are not putting yourself into inappropriate positions".

 

Gah, sorry, I get worked up. I hate the idea of him playing 20 questions with you. I had that done to me and it just makes me angry!

 

Here's a semi-serious question, if he was about to play 20 questions with you and you said something off the wall like, "Yeah so my friends and I went out and met up with these dudes and boy, they laid some good pipe! How was your evening" How would he respond? Would he recognize that it's a joke and laugh? Would he flip out?

 

I couldn't joke like that with N. Nowadays, if K is coming by and calls me on his way there, I'll say "Whew I'm so glad you called, I have time to get the other gentleman out of here" and he laughs.

[notalady]

Funny that one of my ex used to make comments like you don't need to wear make up, you don't need heels, I don't really like them (because he was a physio), you don't need to straighten your hair, I like it messy and curly, you don't need to lose weight, I like your belly (I'm not fat but had at the time gained 6kg and quite a muffin top during the relationship, I looked 3 months pregnant, so I wasn't happy with that at all and finally became motivated enough to lose most if not all of it after we broke up). I'm sure his intention was good, but it seemed to achieve the opposite. So I became slack with make up, and barely did my hair stopped wearing heels, because of these things he said. I never thought about all this until after we broke up, and after I lost weight and was able to fit into one of my more fitted skirts again, I did my make up and hair and wore heels along with the skirt, and I suddenly felt this confidence and pride in my appearance rushing back, that's when I realised that I had lost it along the way of this relationship. Current boyfriend doesn't make any comments about what he likes or doesn't like when it comes to my appearance, he just compliments whatever I wear (if he sees it for the first time he'll say that it's nice and he likes it), and tell me I'm beautiful, and that's it. I much prefer that. It shows that he's accepting of whatever I choose to do with my appearance and allowing me to be free to choose what I want.

 

I never saw my ex's behaviour as controlling, but I don't think it's helpful. Sometimes making each other a better person in a relationship also includes being supportive of the other person take pride in their appearance.

[reinventmyself]

Thanks Fudgie.

It's nice to hear someone that's been through it.

 

I do differentiate when someone making a comment in a complimentary away, that maybe I don't need make up - instead of trying to convince me of it otherwise. There is a difference. Either way it's such a trigger for me it's hard to not react. S is saying it in complimentary way. But if he says it a second time my hackles go up. Or collectively, the combination of the comments I've shared.

 

If he's just saying "You don't need it" when he hears you complain, it's fine, he's just responding to your discomfort

 

I've been stewing over the trip he had and how he responded to my mention of a double standard, along with the questions and skyping.

I've been locked and loaded and looking for ammunition as each day passed. So hopefully having said it all out loud and it can diffuse it a little.

 

I recall my ex husband giving me`the look' once because at a bbq I laughed too loud (for me) Seriously. That and one time from across the room he gestured to me to cross my legs rather than sit with them squarely in front of me. The look on his face was so disapproving. Geeez, my skin crawls just writing this. I could go on an on but I won't.

 

So when all that didn't work any longer my ex started wearing down my self esteem in an attempt to cause me doubt myself. What better way to keep someone then to try to get them to not think enough of themselves to walk away from such a mess. Because after all I must be depressed or crazy.

 

So you see. . my ghost still haunts me at times. On top of that I have been guilty of attracting or being attracted to the same types.

And yah. . S wouldn't find the humor in those jokes. I think they're hilarious. . him not so much.

[reinventmyself]

Funny that one of my ex used to make comments like you don't need to wear make up, you don't need heels, I don't really like them (because he was a physio), you don't need to straighten your hair, I like it messy and curly, you don't need to lose weight, I like your belly (I'm not fat but had at the time gained 6kg and quite a muffin top during the relationship, I looked 3 months pregnant, so I wasn't happy with that at all and finally became motivated enough to lose most if not all of it after we broke up). I'm sure his intention was good, but it seemed to achieve the opposite. So I became slack with make up, and barely did my hair stopped wearing heels, because of these things he said. I never thought about all this until after we broke up, and after I lost weight and was able to fit into one of my more fitted skirts again, I did my make up and hair and wore heels along with the skirt, and I suddenly felt this confidence and pride in my appearance rushing back, that's when I realised that I had lost it along the way of this relationship. Current boyfriend doesn't make any comments about what he likes or doesn't like when it comes to my appearance, he just compliments whatever I wear (if he sees it for the first time he'll say that it's nice and he likes it), and tell me I'm beautiful, and that's it. I much prefer that. It shows that he's accepting of whatever I choose to do with my appearance and allowing me to free to choose what I want.

 

I never saw my ex's behaviour as controlling, but I don't think it's helpful. Sometimes making each other a better person in a relationship also includes being supportive of the other person take pride in their appearance.

Well .. I may not have learned much but one thing I do know for sure and I am consistent doing. . Is not changing my behavior or routines for a man. . no matter how 'complimentary' they are. S knows this. He often refers to me `as one tough broad'

I consider that the highest compliment

[Ms Darcy]

Funny that one of my ex used to make comments like you don't need to wear make up, you don't need heels, I don't really like them (because he was a physio), you don't need to straighten your hair, I like it messy and curly, you don't need to lose weight, I like your belly (I'm not fat but had at the time gained 6kg and quite a muffin top, I looked 3 months pregnant, so I wasn't happy with that at all and finally became motivated enough to lose most if not all of it after we broke up). I'm sure his intention was good, but it seemed to achieve the opposite. So I became slack with make up, and barely did my hair stopped wearing heels, because of these things he said. I never thought about all this until after we broke up, and after I lost weight and was able to fit into one of my more fitted skirts again, I did my make up and hair and wore heels along with the skirt, and I suddenly felt this confidence and pride in my appearance rushing back, that's when I realised that I had lost it along the way of this relationship.

 

I don't know ladies. I think there is a level of personal responsibility here. If you feel you're gaining weight or you don't wear makeup (which is not a good or bad thing in my opinion - makeup is just personal preference), then it's up to you to eat better, hit the gym, put on makeup etc. It's like sometimes men can't win because they don't have a magnifying glass to see our baggage.

 

I think it's a loving thing for someone to say you look fine without makeup or you don't need to lose weight. Had he said you should wear makeup or need to lose weight, folks would be out with pitch folks talking about how controlling he is.

 

There is a bit of confirmation bias. If the relationship is bad or going bad, everything is going to be seen in a bit of a negative light. If it's good, it will be seen a little more positively.

 

For a lot of women, I'm sure if a bf said nothing about how you looked at all, that would soon become a problem.

 

Oh women!

[notalady]

Well .. I may not have learned much but one thing I do know for sure and I am consistent doing. . Is not changing my behavior or routines for a man. . no matter how 'complimentary' they are. S knows this. He often refers to me `as one tough broad'

I consider that the highest compliment

 

I didn't change on purpose for him but I did get slack because since he didn't seem to appreciate these things, I couldn't be bothered to do them. Now I know better

[Ms Darcy]

He often refers to me `as one tough broad'

 

I'm not saying he means this negatively, but that doesn't seem like a compliment. It's along the lines of stubborn. Not a big deal or anything though.

[reinventmyself]

I didn't change on purpose for him but I did get slack because since he didn't seem to appreciate these things, I couldn't be bothered to do them. Now I know better

 

ouch. .that must have hurt.

But I guess there is something said for being grateful for the lesson.

Even if it's a difficult one.

[reinventmyself]

I'm not saying he means this negatively, but that doesn't seem like a compliment. It's along the lines of stubborn. Not a big deal or anything though.

It is mentioned in the context of me recounting my day at work. . or holding a firm boundary with him or someone else and checking him pretty quick with he crosses a line.

 

I can be pretty direct and seeing I wasn't always this way. .being a tough broad is a compliment to me. .at least in the spirit he intends it to be.

[reinventmyself]

I think it's a loving thing for someone to say you look fine without makeup or you don't need to lose weight. Had he said you should wear makeup or need to lose weight, folks would be out with pitch folks talking about how controlling he is.

 

Oh women!

Oh women, is right. . lol

That's my challenge, trying to decode the meaning behind it and knowing the difference.

[Fudgie]

I think at the end of the day, you have to do what is important to you. I believe in taking care of my body healthwise, but I don't wear make-up, I don't use a blow-dryer, etc. If I'm not at work, it's t-shirt jeans or my workout get up. K is better dressed than I am, looks pretty put together, always styles his hair in a certain way, etc. But that's HIS choice, just like it's MY choice to do what I want. I think on my last outing (weekend) I wore a Star Wars t-shirt and pulled my hair back. K has actually said to me "I think you look good without makeup and I bet you'd look good with it, just in a different way" and that's nice and all, but I'm not going to change my habits for him or ANYONE and he knows that because I said so.

 

If you are wearing make-up or changing your clothes to suit someone - bad move. If you're forgoing make-up or clothes to suit a someone - also bad move.

 

reinvent, I know the "look". I remember the "look" that my ex N used to give me. When I would do "verboten" things. These included: mentioning a no-no topic (my father, any mention of an ex even if it was a "Years ago, when I was with ex boyfriend, I went to a b c and I did x y z activities solo, etc), or making jokes he didn't like, or not reciprocating lots of affection, or looking at my phone at a time that he felt I shouldn't have, etc.

 

Does S do "the look" at all?

 

I think the fact he brings it up only when you express discomfort is key. To me, that does not say controlling.

 

But I know that you have a past and are looking for "red flags" so to speak and are on guard. It's an awful feeling.

 

My ex N couldn't take a lot of jokes. It bothered me. I don't like it when people can't laugh at themselves, in spite of themselves. I think the anger/inability to take a joke comes from insecurity on certain subjects.

[notalady]

I don't know ladies. I think there is a level of personal responsibility here. If you feel you're gaining weight or you don't wear makeup (which is not a good or bad thing in my opinion - makeup is just personal preference), then it's up to you to eat better, hit the gym, put on makeup etc. It's like sometimes men can't win because they don't have a magnifying glass to see our baggage.

 

I think it's a loving thing for someone to say you look fine without makeup or you don't need to lose weight. Had he said you should wear makeup or need to lose weight, folks would be out with pitch folks talking about how controlling he is.

 

There is a bit of confirmation bias. If the relationship is bad or going bad, everything is going to be seen in a bit of a negative light. If it's good, it will be seen a little more positively.

 

For a lot of women, I'm sure if a bf said nothing about how you looked at all, that would soon become a problem.

 

Oh women!

 

Haha yes absolutely, I did have responsibility in this too. We also used to eat a lot of unhealthy, oily stuff together so that was a big part of the cause of the weight gain. After I lost the weight I vowed I'll never let myself go like that again lol..

 

Of course no one would like it if someone told you you need to wear make up or need to lose weight lol! I don't think a guy needs to comment on what their partner should or shouldn't do with their appearance. If they want to compliment, just say something that shows he appreciate her appearance like you look great or you're beautiful or whatever.

 

I didn't think my ex's comments were bad necessarily, but I don't know, it was only after that relationship I realised I wanted a partner to show he appreciates (or even encourage) the efforts I put into my appearance instead of making deterring comments even out of good intention, because sometimes I need that motivation to not slack off when in a relationship lol.. It's certainly not a deal maker or deal breaker but it helps my efforts when I need help lol...

[reinventmyself]

 

 

Does S do "the look" at all?

 

My ex N couldn't take a lot of jokes. It bothered me. I don't like it when people can't laugh at themselves, in spite of themselves. I think the anger/inability to take a joke comes from insecurity on certain subjects.

 

No, no `looks' But it's still early!

 

As far jokes. S has a great sense of humor and mine is pretty dry and sarcastic. I can say something playfully sarcastic and he doesn't know I am joking at times.. . I also know sarcasm isn't appreciated by everybody so I've learned choose my audience.

 

Seeing that the insecurity is still a sensitive issue. . but so much better than before, it may not be time to joke about it.

But I understand what you're getting at.

[Realitynut]

When I was reading about you hating to be 'controlled', I couldn't help think about my now ex. He HATED being told what to do. He left school and home at 16, because he didn't want to be told what to do. He always told me...you can't tell me what to do! At the beginning, he was 'jokey' about it. At the end, one time when he was going off the deep end, I rubbed his shoulder trying to soothe him, and I said...'calm down'...and he said...YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

 

I never understood it.

 

I'm hyper sensitive. And have rejection and abandonment issues. He wanted space and 'no control' which he thought relationships did....control you.

 

So were were at odds.... a LOT. He said no one ever made him as angry as I did.

 

I never got it. or why? Until I read your post. I figure he has some deep seated issues.

 

Funny, because my dad was such a controlling person, I thought of it as 'normal' I remember one time, I was 23 and had been living on my own since I was 18. At the time, I was living with a bf. (Alcoholic) So my dad won a trip to Rome from work...and they always took my younger sister. (favorite...lol) this time they took me also.

 

It was hell. It finally dawned on me that my dad was a control freak. I couldn't leave and go to the bathroom, unless I asked! huh

 

When I was 50 I got a credit card to go back to school on. He yelled at me so much I cried! (Asking about interest. I said, 1.5 for the life of the loan...and he didn't believe me)

 

3 weeks before my dad died, he had me crying in a parking lot, because he was berating me. I was almost 60! So yeah, control....i'm use to it. I think I could almost handle that better than the rejection I feel of 'not caring'.

 

Isn't it funny how we all have our baggage. What I would like...some people would call it suffocating. *sigh*

 

The ex in Wisconsin always wanted me to look my best. Hair done, makeup on...etc. One time we were going to go ride bikes, and I had my hair in a pony tail. He didn't like that. I said, for Pete's sake...we're riding bikes! I also changed into multiple outfits so he could tell me which one I should wear...and really had his opinions.

 

This last guy...totally opposite. Didn't like makeup. Liked natural. Hiker. Mud. Practically lived in a shack.

 

I need to find a guy somewhere in the middle of these too! lol

 

Good Luck....and good luck to me too. Life sure throws out the challenges....and I know I sure have my issues! ugh

[Fudgie]

I agree, now is not the time to joke. Humor is how I deal with bad things though so I am guilty of having really bad joking thoughts about things that maybe I "shouldn't" but I think it's just how I process grief and insecurity so I don't judge it anymore.

 

In a way, you almost have to laugh. He's away on a trip and playing 20 questions? Like, really? You could go off and guzzle Zeus for all he knows and then clean up for Skype and say "Oh no, it's fine sweety. I just sat here and knitted all day long and watched the classic movie channel".

 

My one concern for him is that his insecurity will translate to a need to control you and requesting reassurance into a bottomless pit. Being, you can play 20 questions all night, day after day, but it won't really help. It's a bandaid. Why? Because the end result is that you are going out with friends and he cannot truly monitor you.

[reinventmyself]

I agree, now is not the time to joke. Humor is how I deal with bad things though so I am guilty of having really bad joking thoughts about things that maybe I "shouldn't" but I think it's just how I process grief and insecurity so I don't judge it anymore.

 

In a way, you almost have to laugh. He's away on a trip and playing 20 questions? Like, really? You could go off and guzzle Zeus for all he knows and then clean up for Skype and say "Oh no, it's fine sweety. I just sat here and knitted all day long and watched the classic movie channel".

 

My one concern for him is that his insecurity will translate to a need to control you and requesting reassurance into a bottomless pit. Being, you can play 20 questions all night, day after day, but it won't really help. It's a bandaid. Why? Because the end result is that you are going out with friends and he cannot truly monitor you.

 

The knitting comment made me laugh out loud. Isn't that the truth! What's Zues?. . lol

 

Besides I shared with him in the past. . we will only be together if we `want' to.

If either of us doesn't, there isn't a dam* thing you can do about it. Learning to let go and have faith is all you can do. Worrying about the 'what it's' is pointless. Just to be the best partner you can be.

I was mad at him one night a couple weeks ago when he asked too many questions.

I said `don't be that guy!' and hustled him off the phone.

I know he was embarrassed.

 

Time will tell. . he leaves on Thursday for another trip and I have plans with my friends for the weekend.

He volunteered if I am busy in the evening he'll just tell me to go have fun and we'll catch up in the morning.

I am a skeptic. . I still am. But what I do see in this man is a true willingness to own his sh** and the desire to do things differently.

I've asked for something. I have to give him the opportunity to come through.

[Ms Darcy]

... I realised I wanted a partner to show he appreciates (or even encourage) the efforts I put into my appearance instead of making deterring comments even out of good intention, because sometimes I need that motivation to not slack off when in a relationship lol.. It's certainly not a deal maker or deal breaker but it helps my efforts when I need help lol...

 

Well I hope you communicate this from now on.

 

As Jman says, men aren't mind readers!

[Ms Darcy]

It is mentioned in the context of me recounting my day at work. . or holding a firm boundary with him or someone else and checking him pretty quick with he crosses a line.

 

I can be pretty direct and seeing I wasn't always this way. .being a tough broad is a compliment to me. .at least in the spirit he intends it to be.

 

That's definitely a good thing at work.

[notalady]

Well I hope you communicate this from now on.

 

As Jman says, men aren't mind readers!

 

It's all good, current boyfriend is good at knowing what to say and when to say it, and more importantly when not to comment. Never had a problem in that regard. Smart guy that one

[Fudgie]

reinvent,

 

Zeus is the Greek name for the Greek God (aka Jupiter in Roman terms). He was known for having loads of sex with mortals. I was making a crude reference to oral sex.

 

It will be interesting to see if he does change his ways. I applaud you for calling him out on it with "don't be that guy!" and drawing attention to his interrogative questions.

[reinventmyself]

I'm laughing. I know who Zues is just the reference to guzzle, I'm thinking it's a fancy drink I'm not aware of. . Well having said I guess it is

[reinventmyself]

S said something last night about what he thought of my old profile picture. He said my teeth looked shiny and therefore had concerns about my teeth? He has said how relieved he was more than once. I told him there are some thoughts one should just keep to themselves

[Ms Darcy]

It's all good, current boyfriend is good at knowing what to say and when to say it, and more importantly when not to comment. Never had a problem in that regard. Smart guy that one

 

My poor husband would never pass with ya'll. I'm just sayin'. No mind-reading, no guessing, no "knowing what to say and when to say it" according to things I have never said. Lol. As long as what you have is working, it's all good.