Confused...Should I fight or should i move on?

[catfeeder]

If GF were the one writing us about your unwillingness to propose marriage, I'd respond like this:

 

Ask yourself, "If you knew that BF would never give you anything more that what you have together right now--no less, but no more--would you stay or go?"

 

If the answer is 'stay,' then take marriage off the table and enjoy your relationship. If the answer is 'go,' then the next question is 'when'?

 

I'd pick the day that I'm done, put my plans in order, and I'd tell BF that I adore him but deserve to be with someone who envisions the same future as me, so I wish him well. Then I'd move on to grieve, heal and when ready, launch a search for the man who will become my husband.

 

You write:

I told her it wasn't going to happen by her birthday but said I was planning on it. [...] but I admit I had no exact plans for this to happen.

 

So she knows you, and she's not stupid.

 

Just as you aren't required to marry if you don't want to, she's equally entitled to want marriage and family for herself. She gets that you're not there--and may never get there for her.

 

I'd let GF go and focus on where YOU stand--and where you want to stand--because unless and until you resolve that for yourself, GF's movements and intentions are irrelevant.

 

Deal with the elephant in your own room first, then operate consistently with your decision from there. Until you own clarity, there's nothing you can offer GF but limbo--and she's done with that.

[Ms Darcy]

Completely agree. 5 years is a long time to drag your feet.

 

I think she was wise to bounce because it seems like you weren't really interested in marriage (because you didn't propose). Her values include marriage and you were not on the same page.

[can1328]

Completely agree. 5 years is a long time to drag your feet.

 

I think she was wise to bounce because it seems like you weren't really interested in marriage (because you didn't propose). Her values include marriage and you were not on the same page.

 

That's the thing. I am interested. Like some people have mentioned on here, she liked the idea of marriage but I don't think she was really ready for it mentally. She showed it by a lot of her actions. Maybe time apart will heal that or maybe it will break it. I don't know. She's an impulsive person and that was always a tough trait to deal with. Sometimes it was good but other times it was negative.

 

I'm unsure if I should wait for her to contact me. I've told her how I feel but I guess they're just words. She was probably waiting for more of an action and she wouldn't have moved out. I guess I'll just need to wait this one out although that's not what I want to do.

[can1328]

She wants you to marry her, and she left the house to make you miss her enough to propose to her with a ring.

 

5 years is a long time to be with someone & still not "know" if you want to marry them.

 

You seem to bring up a lot of negatives about her, her friends, her grammar......if you are trying to change her to turn her into the woman you "want" to marry then this is doomed from the start.

 

I don't think I'm trying to change her. I just always felt there was still some immaturity there. It takes her a little longer to grow out of that but I've seen a lot of change in her. The negative of her hanging out with friends will change with time. Her friends are all single at the moment. Once they get a bf/husband they disappear. It's happened before. It's not her grammar, it's the way she communicated in our relationship. Some people just can't get there feelings out accurately and she's one of them. Don't need to change that just need to adapt to it and learn the best way to communicate which we have done lately by writing to each other.

 

It seems like when I was the closest to being ready to propose, her time was up and she left. If she had only waited a few more months...

[t1lersm0m1]

That's the problem, she can only wait a few more months so many times. Do you ask yourself how many times she told herself "This time is really it, in just a few months he is finally going to propose." This has been five years in the making.

[can1328]

That's the problem, she can only wait a few more months so many times. Do you ask yourself how many times she told herself "This time is really it, in just a few months he is finally going to propose." This has been five years in the making.

 

What are my options? I don't want to lose her? We've had no contact since Monday and that's the longest we haven't spoken in 5 years.

[t1lersm0m1]

If you are ready, then go buy the ring NOW and go after her!

[sky09]

If you are ready, then go buy the ring NOW and go after her!

 

BUT don't do it to appease her. If you are not feeling it, let her go. In a solid relationship, things like these should be talked about, without one person escaping and/or strong-arming another into submission. If you have doubts - do not do it.

[t1lersm0m1]

He says he is ready, he was going to do it in a few months.

[can1328]

He says he is ready, he was going to do it in a few months.

 

I am ready. Now the only thing holding me back is the moving out and the spitefulness during the move out. I wish it were possible to discuss it before I drop down on a knee. This wasn't exactly the way I pictured a proposal.

[mhowe]

If she needs to put a gun to your head to make you propose..she isn't the right one.

[annie24]

I am ready. Now the only thing holding me back is the moving out and the spitefulness during the move out. I wish it were possible to discuss it before I drop down on a knee. This wasn't exactly the way I pictured a proposal.

 

Well, it sounds like she's been giving out "warning signals" for a while, but you either didn't take them seriously, or didn't think this would happen? I dunno. If you want to talk to her, tell her you want to have a serious talk to her, and will officially propose to her next weekend, or suggest you go ring shopping together. Granted, I know that's not the "surprise proposal" you were planning (thinking of planning??) but let's face it - most couples agree to get married and have many talks about marriage before actually going ring shopping.

[Ms Darcy]

Dude, ready means that you ask. I'll ask in a few months after five years together is insulting. She reached her own breaking point.

 

I don't think you two are right for each other. After five years you don't think she is ready then she is not suddenly going to be ready in a few months. You are just panicking.

[t1lersm0m1]

I agree. You keep waffling. You have all of these excuses lined up. I think you should just heal and move on. I tell you if you were truly ready to do it then do it, and you give more excuses.

 

She's not the right one, or you're not ready, and she's not willing to wait any longer. And no one really blames her since you dragged your feet for five years.

[lavenderdove]

>>I know I want her to be my wife,

 

Then you better put a ring on it. I suspect what has happened is she has gotten tired of waiting for you to get engaged. And she went to her reunion and saw that the majority of people her age are either engaged, married, already having babies, are building equity in a home, all the things she wants for herself.

 

Then she comes home again, and there you are saying 'not yet' (yet again) and she's living in YOUR house not a house you own together and she's thinking, i want marriage and kids, and this is going nowhere. 5 years is a long time to invest in a relationship without a marriage proposal. And you are getting no closer.

 

So you have to decide whether you want to marry her or not. And if you do, you'd better put a ring on it before she meets someone else since you are now broken up. She's at the age where people want to marry, and obviously isn't the type to want a permanent live-in relationship and what she sees as empty promises since you've been promising that ring for 5 years and haven't done it.

 

So you've got a narrow window of opportunity here to get her back. And if you want her back, don't wait too long.

[lavenderdove]

btw, doesn't matter WHY she moved out (i.e., even if she moved out to try to trigger a proposal) because frankly you've had 5 years to get it together and that is long enough. Either you don't want to get married (at all, to anyone) or you don't want to marry HER. If you do want to marry HER, then it is time to do it.

 

If you're still not sure, then wave bye-bye to her and watch her go off and get a new man and marry him.

 

So i suggest if you want to marry her, you go ring shopping and propose SOON.

 

btw, you say you never envisioned it happening this way. well, i'm sure she never envisioned being with a guy for 5 years and not getting a proposal yet. Expectations and a dime will get you a cup of coffee. You need ACTION at this point in time rather than more waffling and no real plans for anything at all other than doing the same old same old. She's looking for action at this point, not more of the same waffling and foot dragging.

[Ms Darcy]

There is another guy on here who was in a somewhat similar predicament in that his then gf gave him an ultimatum.

 

He wanted to live in the city and she wanted to live in the burbs. She said that if they didn't move to the burbs, she would leave him and not marry him. To keep her, he moved. Two years and an unhappy year of marriage later, he wants to move closer to the city. She wants to stay in the burbs.

 

The problems before marriage don't disappear just because you are married. They just get worse.

[sky09]

 

The problems before marriage don't disappear just because you are married. They just get worse.

 

This. Who cares if all her friends are married and babied-up? That's the most ridiculous reason to want to get married (for her). Be careful before you pull that trigger.

[lavenderdove]

^^

I think the issue in this particular case is that he says he KNOWS he wants to make her his wife. And if she is ready now (after 5 years which is a long time to date without commitment), and he continues to waffle and doesn't commit, there is a good chance that he will lose her. There are people on this board who have conflicts and don't resolve them well, but there are also lots of people who drag their feet on commitment then are devastated when the person they feel is the right one for them gets sick of waiting for a commitment and leaves them because they are squeamish about moving to the next life phase (engagement and marriage). Then it is too late.

 

Not all opportunities stay open forever. It is like expecting a house to stay on the market for years until you are in the mood to buy it. Doesn't work that way.

 

So if he is 100% sure he wants to make her his wife (which he says he is), then he is just being squeamish about moving to the next life phase. Either that or he is not being honest with himself about what is really going on here, and he does need to let her go and move on so she can find a man who does want marriage.

[lavenderdove]

btw, seeing her friends married and babied up isn't a reason to get married. but it is a strong wake up call for her that she has been hanging around for 5 years waiting for him to propose while nothing ever changes and the relationship is not proceeding to marriage or children, which is her goal. So she gets that wake up call, then comes home and breaks up with him because she realizes her goal is marriage and family, and not a perpetual live-in situation with someone who is stalled and not moving to the next life phase of marriage/family which is extremely important to her.

 

So it is one of those reality therapy moments where she realizes that she sees these people who all have the goals she is interested in, and she is in a relationship that is stuck in neutral and not getting her any closer to her goals of marriage and family. And i suspect if she talks to just about any of her friends who is married they will be puzzled that after 5 years together she still is not engaged, and they will tell her that sadly if this guy isn't getting on with it after 5 years and is not moving on to marriage after all the talks they've had about it, it is probably time to cut her losses and look for a guy who is interested in marriage. He could try to put her off for another 10 years for all she knows, and make it too late for her to have children of her own.

 

The only people who would encourage her to stay are those people who do not find marriage to be important, or who believe it is better to not marry than to marry. Those who believe in marriage will tell her it is time to move on if after all these years he still won't do it. It's all about having the same goals, and timing.

[sky09]

All true points. However, finding another guy to marry is not going to set her back a few more years? Life's crazy like that, though, and her potential husband could be months away lol

In the end, people just need to communicate with each other instead of throwing tantrums.

[lavenderdove]

>>her potential husband could be months away lol

 

Or it could be never at the going rate.

 

I think she is putting this to the litmus test. As in seeing whether he was sincere or not. And frankly she didn't throw a tantrum, she just had some time on her own to think and communicate with some old friends, then realized she wasn't interested in a live-in relationship that could drag on forever or who knows how many years, and came home and calmly made her plans and moved out.

 

It is a perfectly reasonable and acceptable choice for her to decide that she's not interested in being a permanent live-in GF when she talked to him many times about her desire to get engaged and married (and as recently as a month or so ago) and he still doesn't do it. In fact, it is a SMART thing for her to do after 5 years, because that relationship is stalled and stuck in neutral.

 

So she has voted with her feet, as in letting him know that a live-in relationship is not her end goal, and if she wants marriage and something different than that, then he is going to actually have to marry her rather than made endless broken promises to do it in some nebulous future time. He himself admitted he had no real plans to do so. So it needs to crystallize in his mind whether he wants her as a wife or not.

 

She is doing what is a very accepted negotiating tactic. She is asking for his best and final offer (BAFO). As in, she has let him know she's is not interested in being his live-in with no plans to marry, and she's done negotiating, so he can either make his best and final offer (engagement and marriage), or she's done and walking away from the table and looking for someone who doesn't want to endlessly haggle over marriage, but to actually do it.

 

At 28 she can easily meet another man with the clear intent to marry, and if he proposes in a year or so, she'd be a wife and mother by 30 or 31. And if the next guy doesn't work out, she still has time for another one or two before her fertility declines.

 

I think though that she won't make the same mistake again, staying with a guy for years or moving in with him if what she wants is marriage and not just to be a permanent live-in GF. So her odds have already improved by learning from this experience and vetting her potential BFs to see whether they want marriage (and when), and if they don't come thru within a year or two with a proposal, she knows they are stringing her along, so she needs to find someone who is ready for marriage.

 

I always advise that people don't live together unless they are engaged and have a wedding date planned and a commitment in place. Otherwise they can get stuck in these kind of live-in situations that just drag on and don't go anywhere because one person feels no incentive to get married anytime soon because they are already living together, or doesn't believe in marriage and hasn't really clued the other person in to that.

[can1328]

Well my worst fear has come to light. That "connection" she claimed to have with the guy at her high school reunion has become a strong one. After moving out of the house on Monday.... She was with him on Saturday. I saw it with my own eyes. I pulled up next to them in the car by complete accident. I guess it was fate that I saw that. Can't believe after 5 years she could jump in the sack with someone righT away. Especially one she talked to for the first time at a reunion. I'm heartbroken. Everything was a lie.

[annie24]

Ugh, that must have hurt. Well, just because she's in the car with him doesn't mean they are having sex, but it certainly sounds like it was a date.

 

Look - I don't think that everything was a lie. It sounds pretty clearly like she was getting frustrated that it's been 5 years, no ring, no wedding proposal, and she finally decided to move on. It's not a lie, it sounds like there was a real love there for 5 years, but like we've said, she went to the reunion, saw people were married and having babies after dating a much shorter time, and maybe she started to doubt that it would happen for her with you? I've told my own boyfriend that if we aren't engaged after 2 years (or seriously close to engagement), then it's best to move on. I'm not going to wait around forever.

 

You've been having serious doubts though, like you told us, about her maturity, and that you didn't think she was ready to be married. I dunno what you want to do now, if you want to have a talk with her and see if she wants to marry you (I suggest you guys go ring shopping together that day), or if she wants to see where things go with this guy? We'll have to see what she says.

[can1328]

He flew in from OKlahoma. We are in RI. This was obviously a planned trip all along. It hurts. Especially since she called me Friday night and cried to me about everything. Then the next day she's with him. It makes no sense to me. I guess she left me and moved out to see where this went. If it didn't work she would come back. That's all I can think of.