shelty24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Am I the only one here who thought that feminism was less about ignoring differences and forcing equality in expectations/roles, and more about recognising existing disadvantages and unique difficulties resulting from gender/sex and taking those into account? I always just thought its about being treated with respect regardless of gender and not having double standards like "one rule for him, another for her" Link to comment
Elsewhere Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 OK thanks guys, I needed a confirmation as I started feeling like a spoiled princess when he said noone ever has brought it up. Supposedly none of his ex girlfriends ever complained about any of this. I dont think theres any ill will here, he's probably just oblivious to the social standards, which baffles me. Was he raised under a rock??? Link to comment
Kendahke Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OK thanks guys, I needed a confirmation as I started feeling like a spoiled princess when he said noone ever has brought it up. Supposedly none of his ex girlfriends ever complained about any of this. I dont think theres any ill will here, he's probably just oblivious to the social standards, which baffles me. Was he raised under a rock??? The operative word in that paragraph is "ex". They found other guys who treated them with common, basic manners, as everyone with whom we enter into an intimate relationship deserves to be treated. Link to comment
Iggles Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OK thanks guys, I needed a confirmation as I started feeling like a spoiled princess when he said noone ever has brought it up. Supposedly none of his ex girlfriends ever complained about any of this. I dont think theres any ill will here, he's probably just oblivious to the social standards, which baffles me. Was he raised under a rock??? Why are you with a dude who makes you feel bad about yourself for confronting him about his boorish behavior? He is the inconsiderate one and has gaslighted you pretty well. It's not spoiled to expect to be treated well by your partner. I dump him. Why waste times when you clearly have different views right out the gate. Instead of discussing them in a mature manner he blamed you for speaking up! This pattern will continue. He will always be right and you wrong. Link to comment
savignon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OK thanks guys, I needed a confirmation as I started feeling like a spoiled princess when he said noone ever has brought it up. Supposedly none of his ex girlfriends ever complained about any of this. I dont think theres any ill will here, he's probably just oblivious to the social standards, which baffles me. Was he raised under a rock??? He's not oblivious. He's making excuses for being rude which you are accepting and even defending. I can't count how many times I've held a door for guys at work who were carrying things or simply behind me. Absolutely nothing to do with gender. And who orders first/introducing people/carrying bags....he's gotten away a ton of crap behavior and throws it all under "gender equality" when NONE of those things have to do with gender. Let me translate "I'm not going to treat you special because you're a girl" ..."I'm not going to treat you special" If you're cool with that just wear a helmet for when the door keeps hitting you in the face. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No, he does not make an explicit point of it. It was his response to me pointing out that his manners could use some work. His attitude is more like: we are a team and I will help you out when needed but I'm cutting you no slack whatsoever for being a girl. How does he treat waitstaff(whether men or women) or similar people in service roles? How does he treat elderly people? Otherwise I agree with Savignon and others who've written similar opinions. Link to comment
Elsewhere Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 How does he treat waitstaff(whether men or women) or similar people in service roles? How does he treat elderly people? Otherwise I agree with Savignon and others who've written similar opinions. He's very respectful to all service staff. He claims to definitely do these things for the elderly. So do you think it's possible to teach him manners? I don't want to take on a role of a teacher cause that blows the romance right out the window and will make us both resent each other. Link to comment
shelty24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No you cant change him. My bf is a pig sometimes-burbs, farts, snores. It really pisses me off sometimes coz he wouldn't even try to be subtle about it or say excuse me but Ive accepted it as hes great in every other way but my point is hes not gonna stop doing it just coz I dont like it. He thinks its funny when I throw him a look in disgust Link to comment
Elsewhere Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 How old is this guy? Mid 20s. You're thinking it would be somewhat understandable if he was 17 right? I remember boys in high school always did these things for me. Link to comment
annie24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Wow. Like the others said, he's just rude! Link to comment
missmarple Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 If he's mid 20s and behaves like that, I don't think he can change. Link to comment
Kendahke Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He's very respectful to all service staff. He claims to definitely do these things for the elderly. So do you think it's possible to teach him manners? I don't want to take on a role of a teacher cause that blows the romance right out the window and will make us both resent each other. you can't teach anyone anything if they dont' feel they need to learn anything, especially not from you, the object of him being rude and boorish in the first place. You actually think he's going to learn something from someone he keeps telling to "quit whining and walk it off"? Link to comment
shelty24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 So what are you gonna do about it OP? Its not the actions that necessarily bother me. Its his attitude and his reasons to try and justify it. Have you asked him his opinion on important things like marriage or kids? Whats his opinion on the male "equal" role there since hes already proved to be a hypocrite in lesser issues Link to comment
annie24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 OK thanks guys, I needed a confirmation as I started feeling like a spoiled princess when he said noone ever has brought it up. Supposedly none of his ex girlfriends ever complained about any of this. I dont think theres any ill will here, he's probably just oblivious to the social standards, which baffles me. Was he raised under a rock??? Eerrrr yeah, they found new boyfriends!! what you are describing is a man who is a boor and a jerk. When I'm with my female friends, we hold the door for each other. If you go to a party and bring a guest, you always introduce that person to the host. He's just plain rude, no manners. I think you should find a new boyfriend. Link to comment
shes2smart Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 No, he does not make an explicit point of it. It was his response to me pointing out that his manners could use some work. His attitude is more like: we are a team and I will help you out when needed but I'm cutting you no slack whatsoever for being a girl. They clearly COULD used some work. He doesn't want to hear that. Being nice/kind/polite/considerate to someone you love is not "cutting them slack for being a girl." Link to comment
savignon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You are correct that taking on the role of "teacher" will breed resentment and contempt...not to mention make you UN-equal which he won't like a bit. As with all relationships, you need to accept him how he is or move on. No doubt you could do better. You said yourself guys in High School were more considerate. Link to comment
Elsewhere Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 So what are you gonna do about it OP? Its not the actions that necessarily bother me. Its his attitude and his reasons to try and justify it. Have you asked him his opinion on important things like marriage or kids? Whats his opinion on the male "equal" role there since hes already proved to be a hypocrite in lesser issues So far he's been great in all other aspects so I'll try to give a good example and hope he can draw some conclusions. As far as marriage and kids he claims to also believe in equality, which means a woman can work and he'd stay home with kids if that makes more sense financially. Link to comment
Tanzi Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He's very respectful to all service staff. He claims to definitely do these things for the elderly. So do you think it's possible to teach him manners? I don't want to take on a role of a teacher cause that blows the romance right out the window and will make us both resent each other. So he picks and chooses who he is respectful to. ... just about everyone apart from you. No, you can't change him because he is doing what he wants to do and doesn't think he needs to be taught anything. He is the one who is doing the teaching. He is teaching you how to expect to be treated. It would be different if he were totally unaware of what he was doing. He might then be grateful to be told "perhaps you wouldn't mind holding the door open for the person behind you, just so it doesn't swing back and hit them" but, to be honest, he must be aware that these things are basic manners. No doubt he has had the door held open for him before and I bet he would still get pretty pissed off if a person ahead of him marched through a door and let it swing back and hit him in the face! No he is just choosing to be obstreperous! Link to comment
Tanzi Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 so I'll try to give a good example and hope he can draw some conclusions. As far as marriage and kids he claims to also believe in equality, which means a woman can work and he'd stay home with kids if that makes more sense financially. Umm?!?! Not sure what to say about that! Link to comment
savignon Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 He is the one that is doing the teaching. He is teaching you how to expect to be treated. Well said!! OP sounds like you have it pretty bad for this guy. I can't think of anything else to offer. Link to comment
Tanzi Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Don't get me wrong. Being a stay-at-home single mum of 3 (of sorts, I have an online business) I can honestly say that being a mum was equally as hard, if not harder, than the years I worked as a PA. However, trying to get inside this guys mind, I'm not entirely sure that is how HE sees it and whether his remark was meant the way you took it but rather with a touch of feminism about it. Maybe its just me though. Link to comment
shelty24 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 That's just another example of his lazieness. Probably thinks minding kids is "easy". He has not met my lunatic cousins Link to comment
lavenderdove Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well, sometimes men resent the fact that women want to hold onto the old-fashioned 'chivalrous' acts like him paying for everything and walking around the car to open your door for you when you're perfectly capable of doing that yourself on your own, yet on the flip side these same women don't want to do the traditional female roles of cleaning his apt. and doing his laundry for him because he is busily paying for all their dates. And women can resent men who want women to be 'equal' and earn their own wages and pay for things and not benefit from the chivalrous acts they feel entitled to, and end up taking care of the house and kids just because they are female. So both genders have a tendency to want to 'claim' the old fashioned things they see as perks, while avoiding the old fashioned things they see as detrimental (i.e., a man will want the woman to keep a job and pay for half, but he'll also want her to cook and clean for the both of them, and a woman will want the man to be chivalrous and pay for everything, but she won't want to cook and clean for the both of them). So selfishness can be at the root of these kinds of discussions, where you want to hang onto those old fashioned perks of a man being chivalrous, like him paying for dates and pampering you by opening car doors etc., but you otherwise don't want to play the female role of being subservient to him. So I think he has gone overboard to prove his point, and it is rude to not introduce you at a party where you don't know people, but other than that, he is taking his stand that he wants to have a modern relationship rather than a traditional one. And if you want a traditional relationship with all those perks, then you probably should look for a man who is old fashioned, but also keep in mind that the kind of man who does all those chivalrous things will probably expect you to be a traditional woman and clean his house and take responsibility for the kids while he comes home and ignores you because it is your 'job' to take care of the house and kids if he is a traditional man and plays that role of chivalrous breadwinner. So what do you really want? If you MUST have chivalry to be happy, then this guy is not the guy for you. But if he is an otherwise good guy, perhaps you need to think about whether having someone pull your chair out for you is more important than having a guy who is willing to do half the household chores with you rather than sitting in the basement watching ESPN and asking you to bring him beers because that is your female role, to wait on him at home and do all the traditional female tasks because he is doing all the traditional chivalrous male tasks and earning/controlling the money. Link to comment
Tanzi Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 That's just another example of his lazieness. Probably thinks minding kids is "easy". Yes. This. Just what I was trying to say in a rather ridiculously long-winded way! Link to comment
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