At what point do you just give up entirely?

[Blue Spiral]

I've mentioned more than one way age has to do with it. More women wanting to settle down. Fewer younger chicks who will want an older man who is continuing to age and the ultimate fact that you will soon be physically not in the running with younger males, whether alpha, beta, or delta.

 

I was never able to compete with them in the first place, so I adapted accordingly, and I think it actually gave me a head-start on things. I've always been forced to rely on my non-physical traits.

 

If you don't find anything helpful or ringing any bells in anything I've said, feel free to reject every word.

 

I just did, at least for the section right before that statement.

 

But you said that shutting off your desire/need for sex is as easy as flipping off a switch. So as I said above in my post, that problem can be 100% SOLVED.

 

But I'm greedy, and want as much as possible. There are a lot of things that people are capable of going without, but why should they just give up, when they could possibly get more? That's what I'm dealing with, here. If people went by that advice, we should just shut down ENA--it's full of other-people-related problems, but social contact isn't a physical need like food or water or air, so just flip the switch and problem solved.

[Blue Spiral]

Why create so much drama around this? If you want to be alone, just go do that. If you want an open relationship, just go find poly folks. Why the drama?

 

I don't think I'm being dramatic at all. if anything, I'm one of the least-dramatic people you'll ever meet. But when I state my preferences, people tend to react in a dramatic way. Please, don't blame me any more than you'd blame a feminist or a gay person that walked into a room of traditional people and inadvertently caused a freakout.

[tiredofvampires]

But I'm greedy, and want as much as possible. There are a lot of things that people are capable of going without, but why should they just give up, when they could possibly get more?

 

You have said you can take it or leave it with sex. That you can switch off the need at will.

 

So if you're greedy but you can switch it off because there's not enough around to fulfill your greed, I'd say use the ability to switch it off and the greed issue is solved. SOLVED = NO MORE PROBLEM.

 

If you're asking why should you do that when you can get more, either there is more supply to meet your demand than you first said, so go for it, or you're not as facile with the on/off switch as you've said. You said you're tired of trying and getting nothing, so only you can balance these apparently contradicting statements.

 

When all else fails, HIT THE OFF SWITCH if that's the easiest for you; if it's easier to follow the greed because of the ache of the demand, then do that. This is all just up to you, no one can decide these things.

 

But you do sound a bit like a child saying, "I don't wanna get outta the car!!" and the parent says, "Well then, you won't get the ice cream." Child whines "I want the ice cream!". Parent says, "Then get out of the car, so we can go!" Child screams, "I WANT ICE CREAM BUT I DON'T WANT TO GET OUT OF THE CAR!"

 

Again, that's going to be up to you.

 

There are plenty of people on ENA with plenty of different kinds of problems, and I wouldn't say that this thread is representative of any of them except that it's a post. And I don't know of any other posters, or at least I haven't run into many, who post about the things they need/want/crave/chase after who also say cavalierly, "But of course, I could just do without it." There would be a lot fewer threads IF that's how people really felt.

 

but social contact isn't a physical need like food or water or air, so just flip the switch and problem solved.

 

You won't die within days to weeks deprived of social contact, but over months and years, it can destroy a person. It is known that without touch, babies fail to thrive, and that for mental health, human interaction is essential. Some people can handle being loners more than others, but social contact is considered to be by all social and psychological scientists to be a BASIC HUMAN NEED.

 

Again, though -- milk that switch since/if you can and it solves the problem!

 

Since you've rejected the most important points I've made (imo) with such an arrogant and dismissive tone, this will be my last post on this thread. I have hesitated to post on this thread, anticipating this reaction, but it was worth a shot anyway. I wish you well in your search for whatever will make you happiest, in a true sense of happiness, not a band-aid sense (and sex can be a band-aid).

[tiredofvampires]

Actually, I will add one more thing.

 

You said that you have really low self-esteem. I'm wondering if -- even though earlier in the thread you said there is no problem within you that needs fixing -- you might reconsider this as a primary problem worthy of your time, effort, attention, and healing. I don't know if you've ever done anything in your 34 years to address that directly.

 

It's quite hard, to impossible, to live happily with low self-esteem, no matter what else goes on.

[goodheartlady]

I don't think anyone cares that you want to be alone or polyamorous or whatever it is.

 

Creating a 8 page long thread = attention seeking + drama.

[figur]

You want a lot of sex and with women that, to you, their most important offering is physical beauty. But sex, by definition, takes two to tango, so what are you seriously offering a human woman when it comes to sex?

 

If you know that answer it will be easier to get what you want.

[Blue Spiral]

So if you're greedy but you can switch it off because there's not enough around to fulfill your greed, I'd say use the ability to switch it off and the greed issue is solved. SOLVED = NO MORE PROBLEM.

 

I'm sorry, but I put this in what I call the "go away" category. I've seen it time and time again on ENA. A guy lists his problems, and women eventually tell him to just go to a prostitute or the like, as the dating system just isn't working for him. Earlier, you accused me of not honestly wanting answers--well, I'm going to accuse you of not honestly wanting to help me with my issues. "turn the switch off" and "go to a prostitute" isn't "problem solved" for me and guys like me, it's "problem solved" for you, because it gets us out of the dating pool and stops reminding people that the system doesn't work for everyone. It's a lot better for a store if the angry customers go away, as opposed to sticking around and complaining about the product. I know, you want to sell giving up as a "positive" thing, where I just stop wanting sex and stop bringing up certain points that, completely coincidentally, might make other guys think.

 

You won't die within days to weeks deprived of social contact, but over months and years, it can destroy a person. It is known that without touch, babies fail to thrive, and that for mental health, human interaction is essential. Some people can handle being loners more than others, but social contact is considered to be by all social and psychological scientists to be a BASIC HUMAN NEED.

 

Babies =/= adults. I agree, most people do seem to need to be around others...but not all of us. From the time I graduated high school until the time I was about 26 or 27, I was basically a hermit, only going out in public for three or four hours a week. (Getting groceries, FWB stuff, etc.) Later, when I changed jobs, I had to increase that a bit, but not much. Somehow, I'm still here.

[Blue Spiral]

I don't think anyone cares that you want to be alone or polyamorous or whatever it is.

 

Creating a 8 page long thread = attention seeking + drama.

 

I...didn't realize that people have to care about something, in order for one to post about it. Perhaps you could give me a list of what people care about, so I'll know whether or not to post about it in the future? This is basically argument by social approval. "No one cares about your problems, so please shut up." I already knew that, thank you, but I appreciate the reminder. Guys like me are extremely disposable to women.

[Blue Spiral]

You want a lot of sex and with women that, to you, their most important offering is physical beauty. But sex, by definition, takes two to tango, so what are you seriously offering a human woman when it comes to sex?

 

If you know that answer it will be easier to get what you want.

 

I'm offering...sex. I admit, I pretty tame/vanilla guy, though.

[Batya33]

I mean this with all sincerity - I would think that with all the on line sites/meetup/ out there that there are plenty of women looking for a sex partner. What happened when you tried adult friend finders -or if you didn't, then why not (maybe I'm missing something here).

[Silverbirch]

I'm offering...sex. I admit, I pretty tame/vanilla guy, though.

 

Realistically, most women want more than sex. A few might just want that for a while, but if that is all that is on offer, after a while they will get bored and go looking for more.

[Batya33]

Realistically, most women want more than sex. A few might just want that for a while, but if that is all that is on offer, after a while they will get bored and go looking for more.

 

So then he'll just find a new partner.

[Silverbirch]

So then he'll just find a new partner.

 

Yes so no issue really.

[tiredofvampires]

Okay, I do feel I need to respond to this:

 

 

 

YOU are the one who said you can "turn the switch off" -- on the need for sex, on the need for companionship, on all things people-interactive. But as it relates to this thread, which is about sex, YOU are the one who said this is something you're very capable of doing: shutting off your need for sex and turning your attention to other things. Your last thread said the same thing -- that you can shut it off at will. It's a repeat point with you, juxtaposed starkly with your "sex obsession."

 

So I'm merely referencing what you, yourself have said about yourself and advising, THEN IF/SINCE YOU CAN DO THAT, THAT SOLVES YOUR PROBLEM because anyone who doesn't need sex is not going to be agonizing over how much effort to put into it anymore, feeling unsatiated greed, etc.

 

You handed me the answer to your own question by posting again and again that you can "turn the switch off", and I just said hey then, there's your answer to this "problem."

 

Why, if you can shut off sex urges like a lightswitch, isn't this a viable response to you? Why shouldn't it give you relief to have an answer which seems obvious and straightforward?

 

Apparently, this very direct solution doesn't seem to make you very happy.

 

Now you're telling me that my saying so, offering plainly self-evident advice based on your own words and account, is an affront, an effort to make "men like you" "go away" and rid the dating pool of you, and that this is part of a larger conspiracy to subvert the truth that you're trying to get out to other men.

 

Allllrightee then.

 

But find one instance where I advised you on a particular choice as the right path, or moreover, told you to go to a prostitute and I will concede everything. I have not even used the word prostitute until this post, addressing your extraneous reference to it.

 

Unbelievable, Blue Spiral. I overestimated your ability to at least play fair in debate. Personally, I am untouched, but intellectually, I'm gobsmacked.

[tiredofvampires]

So then he'll just find a new partner.

 

My understanding is that if it was that easy, he wouldn't have created this thread, which is predicated on the theme that this has become almost too hard to come by, to his satisfaction.

 

To which I recommended then that he utilize a rather unusual ability he says he has: being able to shut off the desire for sex. He's said that despite being a sex fiend, he can also take it or leave it. He's said that in numerous threads. So if he can't procure new partners, or it's too hard and tiring, this would be a viable and acceptable plan B. You'd think.

 

But that advice apparently constitutes a female conspiracy to help line the pockets of prostitutes with the bills of beta men.

[Blue Spiral]

Realistically, most women want more than sex. A few might just want that for a while, but if that is all that is on offer, after a while they will get bored and go looking for more.

 

You don't need to tell me that--I've had it happen to me twice, and I'm well-aware of how women prefer relationships to FWBs.

[Blue Spiral]

So if he can't procure new partners, or it's too hard and tiring, this would be a viable and acceptable plan B. You'd think.

 

It's Plan A, now. In the words of Tobias Funke, "Let the great experiment begin!" (Though, technically, it began a little while ago, when I lost interest in my FWBs. Without constant pursuit, they naturally gravitated towards the many men that were willing to pursue them. I've rarely encountered women that get into FWBs and develop feelings. No, I get the ones that have a lot of men competing for them, and barely notice when I'm gone, as they have so many other options to choose from. Meanwhile, my other option is...celibacy. But this stuff is equally hard for men and women! Yes, I totes believe that.)

 

But that advice apparently constitutes a female conspiracy to help line the pockets of prostitutes with the bills of beta men.

 

I don't think there's a female conspiracy. (That said, when I was in gradeschool, I had a lot of dreams about a nefarious all-girl conspiracy of some sort. They had hovercars, one of them was a princess, and they were trying to lure me into some sort of arranged marriage. Even then, I knew that marriage wasn't to be trusted. I believe I made a getaway from what would have been my royal wedding.) Now, there's an expression of the female collective will, just as there's an expression of the male collective will. We see the effects throughout society--men/women want this, or won't put up with that. I actually think that women, as a whole, should be against the idea of prostitution. Women benefit from scarcity of sex, and as sex becomes easier to get, we've seen how monogamous relationships have declined. Future internet archaeologists, take note: I predict that legalized prostitution will act as the Second Sexual Revolution and turn the western world upside-down. If even just ten percent of men are like me, things will get very, very interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it. A lot of super-successful women competing for a shrinking number of not-quite-successful men, while the rest of us obtain sex via other means.

[Silverbirch]

Err . . . . BS, my own prediction is that with legalised same-sex society, in even 20 years time, society views will have changed that much again that I think it is far more likely that there will be LOTS more same-sex relationship. At some of the highschools here, at their debut/ formals = equivalent of American prom, some kids attend with a same-sex partner now, and I know of boys who have celebrated their "coming out" by arriving in a pink cadillac. If I could just feel sexual attraction towards a woman, I would go for it. I wonder if there will be many marriages between women where sex isn't part of the deal. BTW, there has been legalised prostitution for many years where I live. Might surprise you to know that not all men are interested in that for various reasons. I don't think it has transformed the society where I live - prostitution has always been available here - it was just less visible.

[potd2009]

If even just ten percent of men are like me, things will get very, very interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it. A lot of super-successful women competing for a shrinking number of not-quite-successful men, while the rest of us obtain sex via other means.

 

LOL. As previously posted in this thread, I fall into the female demographic you are describing -- and I have no intention of competing for any "not-quite-successful" man. I'm happy either to be single or to "obtain [romance] via other means," per Silverbirch's suggestion - I have dated women in the past (actually came out as lesbian at 20), but for the past few years have dated only men. When I made my post in this thread discussing how I prefer to make the same or more money than my partner (more challenging when you're in the top 1% of female earners and the top 2-5% overall); how I need a partner who does not feel "emasculated" and is comfortable with assertive feminism, etc., I also acknowledged that there might not be a male partner for me who fits this bill as well as my other parameters, including being childfree and committed to an urban lifestyle in my current area. And as I've chewed on that idea some more offline, it's occurred to me that I might be more likely to find a female partner than a male partner who fits the description of what I'm looking for. And as I now live in a state that has full state/federal marriage equality and anti-discrimination protections and in a very pro-gay rights area, the practical downsides of a same-sex relationship have greatly diminished from when I was 20. I'm planning to start actively exploring this possibility in the next few weeks. All I'm sayin' is ... the "not-quite-successful men" (whether we're talking career-wise or in romantic relationships) should not flatter themselves as to their indispensability to women.

[goodheartlady]

From a purely evolutionary prospective, men who are the fittest should pass on their genes. If a bunch of betas become too bothered to date woman (and become shut in's), it is probably a good thing in the long term.

[waffle]

I actually think that women, as a whole, should be against the idea of prostitution. Women benefit from scarcity of sex, and as sex becomes easier to get, we've seen how monogamous relationships have declined. Future internet archaeologists, take note: I predict that legalized prostitution will act as the Second Sexual Revolution and turn the western world upside-down. If even just ten percent of men are like me, things will get very, very interesting. I hope I live long enough to see it. A lot of super-successful women competing for a shrinking number of not-quite-successful men, while the rest of us obtain sex via other means.

1) I want to be in the line of women that's being paid for sex rather than giving it up for free

2) I, personally, don't actually care about monogamy--for me or for anyone else. In fact, I rather hope to see polygamy become legal but since polygamy has no political agenda, I don't know if that will ever happen. I would love to do the sister wives thing. Well, as long as they get saddled with the housework and I can score the majority of the sex. Except that prostitution will be a non-issue, just like it is now.

 

Overall, reading this thread, I'm not grasping the point. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince us of the "boo! relationships are bad!" stance, or if you're trying to convinced yourself. Bottom line is you're going to do what you want, and we're going to do what we want . . . what was the question again?

[quirky]

I'm offering...sex. I admit, I pretty tame/vanilla guy, though.

 

If you spice it up you might get more options. It might set you apart..offering something edgy that others don't. Because ok, you don't want a relationship but if you're very vanilla about it too then what's your competitive advantage?

[Blue Spiral]

If you spice it up you might get more options. It might set you apart..offering something edgy that others don't. Because ok, you don't want a relationship but if you're very vanilla about it too then what's your competitive advantage?

 

My competitive advantage is: I'm nice. My parents told me that would be enough...

 

I don't think I'm cut out for this aggressive, demanding sexual marketplace. Thus, I've gotten out of it. It's going pretty well, so far. Less stress, more time for me to do the things I enjoy, etc. This situation (dealing with women in a social context) has been eating away at me for my entire adult life--and before that, really. It feels good not to have to deal with it.

[Silverbirch]

That's great Blue Spiral! Enjoy!

[goodheartlady]

Hey good for you for knowing what you want! Enjoy!