Journaling my "personal growth"

[bulletproof]

Granted, I'm sure someone will tell me some "new age"y-sounding comment about how you CAN choose to "break up" with yourself and flush all that stuff away, but that's such an oversimplification of something that is wildly complicated.

 

Being dismissive of people's advice is a portion of your problem, in my opinion. You are the one making it "wildly complicated." It's actually quite simple.

 

I would say at this point, given your absolute insistence that you just "can't" change, then you should consider medication. I am now ready to hear all the reasons you "can't" take medication.

[blueidealist24]

 

What I'm trying to say is that I would rather devote myself to figuring out how to make someone else (as in, a romantic partner) happy, than trying to figure out how to make myself "happy". Is that really such a bad thing? I feel like some would say that's quite romantic and admirable. Can you give me some rhetorical examples as to how this could create problems in a relationship? Perhaps that would help me to see the point you're making.

 

 

In theory, it does sound romantic and admirable, but in practice it isn't always. There was a guy like that who liked me a few years ago. He was very intelligent and nice, albeit very introverted, spent a lot of time on his computer, but him always trying to serve my needs and not caring about himself or his own interests made me feel pretty GUILTY. I didn't like feeling guilty, like I was the taker in the friendship, which I guess I'd call it, since it never turned into a relationship. I don't want a completely selfish guy either, but there has to be some balance between pleasing another and having your own interests and desires too.

[blueidealist24]

Btw, I just wanted to add that the guy I mentioned above ended up dating controlling, arrogant, bossy women. If some woman like that perceives that you are like you are, you could get majorly taken advantage of.

[MattW]

Some people aren't cut out for friends or relationships. I think you should start coming to terms that you are one of those people. You say you are content and happy with your computer, within the confines of your room in your parents' house, well I say good for ya. Many people search all of their lives for contentment.....

 

Perhaps, but you do realize that's not any easier for me than the alternative, right? I don't know how to come to terms with that any more than I know how to work through my problems and make a better life for myself. Because of my inner turmoil, those options are equally difficult and daunting.

 

In the past, I've... alluded to "suicidal" thoughts, and I've kind of been "scolded" for taking that concept lightly. And I'll admit, it's not something I'm seriously considering right now. But if I ever get to that point, it's not going to be because of simple sadness and apathy. It's going to be because I can't stand this inner turmoil of mine. My perpetual inner turmoil is... well, bordering on unbearable at this point.

 

I mean, on the one hand, I so desperately want to have the wonderful life I've always dreamed of, and I don't want to force myself to accept that I can't have it. But on the other hand, I'm incredibly stubborn, and insistent on being unhappy. This friction, this constant inner turmoil, it's overwhelming and it's crippling. I worry that it may drive me insane.

 

Being dismissive of people's advice is a portion of your problem, in my opinion. You are the one making it "wildly complicated." It's actually quite simple.

 

I would say at this point, given your absolute insistence that you just "can't" change, then you should consider medication. I am now ready to hear all the reasons you "can't" take medication.

 

I... Well, I mean... *sigh*

 

What type of medication, exactly, are we talking about, and how would I get it (would it HAVE to be through a therapist?)?

[enalover143]

Perhaps, but you do realize that's not any easier for me than the alternative, right? I don't know how to come to terms with that any more than I know how to work through my problems and make a better life for myself. Because of my inner turmoil, those options are equally difficult and daunting.

 

By your logic, you yourself say these are the only 2 options. Well then, that is too bad then, those are the 2 options. So pick one and stick with it, since you are unwilling to see a 3rd, or 4th, etc.

 

In the past, I've... alluded to "suicidal" thoughts, and I've kind of been "scolded" for taking that concept lightly. And I'll admit, it's not something I'm seriously considering right now. But if I ever get to that point, it's not going to be because of simple sadness and apathy. It's going to be because I can't stand this inner turmoil of mine. My perpetual inner turmoil is... well, bordering on unbearable at this point.

 

If this is you being dramatic or trying to extract pity/sympathy again, then yes, don't take such a subject lightly. On the other hand, if you are being serious, then THIS IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET PROFESSIONAL, MEDICAL HELP.

 

What type of medication, exactly, are we talking about, and how would I get it (would it HAVE to be through a therapist?)?

 

People on the board can point you in the right direction, but don't expect anyone here to be a professional who can diagnose you or prescribe correct medication. Nor can you self-diagnose and self-medicate. Do not try to figure out yourself what over-the-counter drugs to take. Best to seek and consult with a medical professional, as suggested to you thousands of times over 5 years.

[Mesemene]

It almost feels bizarre to continue with this metaphor, but I feel like it's apt to say that I'm in a dead end "relationship" with myself. There's the part of me that tells the other half "Let's try this, let's give this a chance, let's do this, etc.", but my "partner" just doesn't want to do anything and responds with "No, that's stupid, that's a waste of time, etc.". Unfortunately, I can't simply "break up" with myself; I'm stuck with me

 

I haven't read through all your threads - but have you ever been evaluated to see if you have clinical depression? I'm not judging, but it sounds like "part" of you has the intent, and the other "part" is dragging you down like a ball and chain. Talk to your doctor and see if he/she can give you a referral to get checked out. Worst case is they say it's just you - which you've already been dealing with. Best case you have a name for the emotional drag you've been fighting and can talk it over with the doctor to get an idea of what options may help.

[Wayfara]

No, though I'm not sure how that relates?

 

I was curious because if exercise used to be your thing then you would have been relatively fit at that time but if you only did it a few times then you don't really know if it would have made you happier. What you enjoy and what makes you happy aren't always the same thing. Exercise is pain sometimes, it hurts, it takes time, you get sweaty, I don't do it because I enjoy that. It does however make me happy as I like being healthy, thus I like making efforts for my health. Sometimes I even like doing the exercise itself, the adrenaline and seeing how I have improved but that is not the reason I do it. Watching the TV would have been more enjoyable for me than doing exercise but that in return wouldn't make me happy, it even would make me unhappy to waste my life in front of a TV.

 

I guess I meant more of a general thing, rather than specifically "for" meeting people; as in, any time over the years I've gone out somewhere by myself for some other purpose but the possibility for meeting people SHOULD exist.

 

I don't see going out shopping by myself or going to the movies by myself as being out there trying to meet people unless I'm are cold approaching people to befriend them while doing so, that would be me trying to meet people, albeit in an ineffective way as people aren't really into making new friends at the grocery store or the cinema. Trying to meet people means making an effort to meet people in my opinion. Going to college can be a way of meeting new people but going to college doesn't automatically mean you are out there trying to meet people, you have to specifically make the effort to meet the people there, if you only there listening to the teachers and responding to those who talk to you first then you are not out there meeting people. Going out for drinks with co-workers and talking to them, that I can say is one way to be out there trying to meet people.

 

I just didn't really feel very good, coming out of that session. I know it's not really "fair" to judge something that quickly, but I just walked out of there not really "feeling it".

 

There are more therapists out there than just one, you might connect better with the next one.

 

I don't really see it as something to be proud of or commend myself on, considering it's such a mundane thing that most people get taken care of in their teens.

 

Getting a driver's licence might be a mundane thing for someone who thought it was a piece of cake. For someone who had a fear of driving overcoming that is an accomplishment. Other people have other fears and other circumstances, thus you can't compare yourself to them, the one you can compare yourself with is yourself. You were scared of driving and now you are driving, thus you have improved, this is where you can feel proud of yourself.

 

There's the part of me that tells the other half "Let's try this, let's give this a chance, let's do this, etc.", but my "partner" just doesn't want to do anything and responds with "No, that's stupid, that's a waste of time, etc.".

 

These two halves are both you and you have control over both. So why do half of you think it's stupid and a waste of time to give it a chance? Is there something you rather want to do? What do you hope to accomplish by doing nothing? You must have had some appealing clinchers to have convinced you other half it's better to be miserable, so let's hear them.

[Batya33]

In theory, it does sound romantic and admirable, but in practice it isn't always. There was a guy like that who liked me a few years ago. He was very intelligent and nice, albeit very introverted, spent a lot of time on his computer, but him always trying to serve my needs and not caring about himself or his own interests made me feel pretty GUILTY. I didn't like feeling guilty, like I was the taker in the friendship, which I guess I'd call it, since it never turned into a relationship. I don't want a completely selfish guy either, but there has to be some balance between pleasing another and having your own interests and desires too.

 

And in a way it's selfish because if you (OP) are so "giving" without being in a position to accept healthy love and giving you're depriving the other person of that opportunity. Plus your way is safer -if it is that imbalanced then you don't have to be vulnerable -you can simply be the martyr" and not get truly close.

[bulletproof]

What type of medication, exactly, are we talking about, and how would I get it (would it HAVE to be through a therapist?)?

 

Yes you would have to see a therapist. However, I'm sad to say that there are many who simply get the prescription but don't attend therapy regularly in conjunction with the meds. I realize that may well be the route you choose, if you choose any at all.

 

I can't say what kind of meds he/she would give you. Possibly an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety, or both. I really don't know.

[MattW]

By your logic, you yourself say these are the only 2 options. Well then, that is too bad then, those are the 2 options. So pick one and stick with it, since you are unwilling to see a 3rd, or 4th, etc.

 

Right, but again, both "halves" of me want the opposite option, and that opposition creates friction, and that friction results in inaction. Meaning, I can't exactly "pick one and stick with it". Granted, I'm basically submitting to the side of me that wants to be unhappy, but the other side is just constantly kicking and screaming the whole way through, which is starting to feel like a perpetual nightmare at this point.

 

If this is you being dramatic or trying to extract pity/sympathy again, then yes, don't take such a subject lightly. On the other hand, if you are being serious, then THIS IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO GET PROFESSIONAL, MEDICAL HELP.

 

Well, again, it's not something I'm actually considering right now, but no, I'm not trying to be dramatic or gain pity or sympathy. It just makes me feel insane having these two opposing forces constantly clashing with one another, it's torture, and it's been that way for far too long. And worse than that, I still believe I'm already too "broken", too "messed up", too far gone for any kind of professional to do me any good.

 

I haven't read through all your threads - but have you ever been evaluated to see if you have clinical depression? I'm not judging, but it sounds like "part" of you has the intent, and the other "part" is dragging you down like a ball and chain. Talk to your doctor and see if he/she can give you a referral to get checked out. Worst case is they say it's just you - which you've already been dealing with. Best case you have a name for the emotional drag you've been fighting and can talk it over with the doctor to get an idea of what options may help.

 

No, I haven't been evaluated, or anything like that. Honestly, I don't even "have" a doctor, and I haven't been to one since I was in my early teens.

 

I imagine this doesn't actually count as an "evaluation", but I did go to my first and only therapy session a couple months ago, but that's about the closest to any kind of proper "evaluation".

 

I was curious because if exercise used to be your thing then you would have been relatively fit at that time but if you only did it a few times then you don't really know if it would have made you happier. What you enjoy and what makes you happy aren't always the same thing. Exercise is pain sometimes, it hurts, it takes time, you get sweaty, I don't do it because I enjoy that. It does however make me happy as I like being healthy, thus I like making efforts for my health. Sometimes I even like doing the exercise itself, the adrenaline and seeing how I have improved but that is not the reason I do it. Watching the TV would have been more enjoyable for me than doing exercise but that in return wouldn't make me happy, it even would make me unhappy to waste my life in front of a TV.

 

Yeah, I guess I just don't really care enough at this moment in time about being "healthier" or "having a better body". I'm not even close to being grotesquely overweight, or anything, I have a fairly average body, and I'm smaller overall than a vast majority of people. If I were worse off that way, it might be a bigger concern to me, and I'd be more interested in it, but it's just not something that's a major concern to me.

 

I did try a number of times to start exercising in the past, and it was mostly always just a "Why not? I have nothing better to do..." kind of thing. Each time I started, I would generally stick to some basic exercise plan for three weeks or so, then it would just peter out and by the fourth week, I'd just stop caring and stop doing any of it. Interestingly enough, one of the times where I really wanted to get serious about it was when I was looking to pursue the girl from five years ago that I liked. I had seen pictures of the last guy she dated, and he was a massive athletic type, so I felt like I had to get in somewhat of a decent shape in order for her to be attracted to me. But, unlike the way I overcame my driving fear, I guess I just didn't care enough to stick to working out this time, either, and I gave up after a few weeks.

 

That said, I'm still going to try to give the gym thing ago with the guy I know, and perhaps having someone else there will keep me from losing interest. Although, he still hasn't made any kind of actual plans with me about it, and by now I've mentioned it to him enough times for the ball to be in his court. I don't know if he's still recovering from his injury, or what, but then again, I don't really care much about it to dwell on it a whole lot, at least not until he actually makes plans with me.

 

I don't see going out shopping by myself or going to the movies by myself as being out there trying to meet people unless I'm are cold approaching people to befriend them while doing so, that would be me trying to meet people, albeit in an ineffective way as people aren't really into making new friends at the grocery store or the cinema. Trying to meet people means making an effort to meet people in my opinion. Going to college can be a way of meeting new people but going to college doesn't automatically mean you are out there trying to meet people, you have to specifically make the effort to meet the people there, if you only there listening to the teachers and responding to those who talk to you first then you are not out there meeting people. Going out for drinks with co-workers and talking to them, that I can say is one way to be out there trying to meet people.

 

Perhaps, but when you don't have friends to actually go places with very often, you kind of have to make the best of what you have. I can't go to some social event or location by myself, because I would have a horrible time, I'd keep to myself, not approach anyone, probably bury my face in my phone the whole time, then just go home feeling unfulfilled. That's why I don't really go to stuff like that unless I'm invited. Heck, like the last time I went out to a bar with coworkers back in the summer, I got there a good 30-45 minutes before any of them showed up, so I just kinda sat there with my drink, watching the TV the place had on, sort of looking around the place, and I just felt uncomfortable and "reserved" the whole time. All I really saw were couples and groups of friends, and whatnot, and I just felt so disconnected from everyone else. That's how I am if I go to a place like that alone, and thus, that doesn't do me any good, because while it may get me out of the house, I'm basically just "doing nothing" in a public place.

 

There are more therapists out there than just one, you might connect better with the next one.

 

I suppose. I guess my mindset right now is that, regardless of any kind of "connection" with a specific therapist, I feel like therapy is generally going to be the same. And if I couldn't commit to the simple things this woman asked me to try, why should I think I'll commit to them if a different therapist says the same kind of things? If I can't fully commit to therapy and "believe" in it, what good is it really going to do me?

 

Anyway, I continue to run some searches on local therapists, and I always get the same little handful of results, and none of them make me feel like they're someone I'd want to go talk to repeatedly.

 

Getting a driver's licence might be a mundane thing for someone who thought it was a piece of cake. For someone who had a fear of driving overcoming that is an accomplishment. Other people have other fears and other circumstances, thus you can't compare yourself to them, the one you can compare yourself with is yourself. You were scared of driving and now you are driving, thus you have improved, this is where you can feel proud of yourself.

 

Perhaps my "fear" of driving simply affected me in a different way. To be quite honest, it wasn't a fear that I would dwell on or even think much about. I don't even know where the fear originated from, but I remember in my late teens, I simply made a decision that I was going to submit to that fear and just not drive, and from that point on, it was merely a "decision" rather than a fear that caused me any kind of anxiety. Granted, there were external factors that often lambasted me for this choice, namely my parents (particularly my mother), but I always just tried to brush off that stuff. There were a couple times where they forced me to get my learner's permit and go driving with my dad, and each time, I did feel a lot of anxiety, and I avoided continuing to learn how to drive at all costs each of those times.

 

When I finally learned last year, my attraction for this girl simply outweighed my past decision of feeding into my fear of driving all those years ago, and I pushed through. So, I guess in a way, I just don't really feel like I "overcame" anything. Basically, I just made a stupid decision to give into the fear I felt as a teen, and then last year, I found a reason that meant enough to me to reverse that decision.

 

These two halves are both you and you have control over both. So why do half of you think it's stupid and a waste of time to give it a chance? Is there something you rather want to do? What do you hope to accomplish by doing nothing? You must have had some appealing clinchers to have convinced you other half it's better to be miserable, so let's hear them.

 

Technically speaking, yes, we all have control over ourselves, but it sure doesn't feel like it to me. I feel like the inside of my head is one of those mechanical bulls, bucking around all crazy and such, and I just can't get a grasp on it.

 

As far as my two halves go, it basically breaks down like this:

 

Half 1: This person is extremely pessimistic, cynical, and stubborn. This person believes that, over the last 7-ish years, I've tried enough times to connect with people that I should've made SOME progress by now. This person believes that my future is already determined and that absolutely nothing I do is going to change that in the slightest. This person also has an extremely dominant personality.

 

Half 2: This person is a bright-eyed, optimistic dreamer, who wants to create a good life for himself, who wants to have friends, fall in love, have a good career, a good happy healthy life, etc. This person is fairly timid to the outside world, and while he makes a LOT of noise to "Half 1" about having a better life, he also has an extremely submissive personality.

 

So basically, I perpetually keep myself trapped in a cycle where #2 cooks up all these nice dreamy life scenarios, then #1 shoots them all down, then #2 argues with #1, but #2 ultimately gives in to #1, and #2 sulks while #1 gets his way again, then some time will pass, and then the cycle starts all over again.

 

You ask why I (or rather, in this case, half #1) think stuff is stupid and a waste of time, if there's something I'd rather do, and what I hope to accomplish by doing nothing. Half #1, again, simply believes that I've put in enough effort over the last 7 or so years that I should be in at least a slightly better position than I'm in right now, and thus, if I haven't been able to make progress yet, I'm simply not going to be able to (making any future efforts basically a waste, because the result will be the same no matter what, in my eyes). What #1 would rather do is just get away from everything and everyone (because all it does is make #2 get antsy and start dreaming big all over again, which in turn leads to a lot of turmoil and sadness), and just crawl in a hole and die, basically. I guess what #1 hopes to accomplish is shutting out the outside world, so that #2 isn't reminded of the things he wants so badly to have, keeping #2 quiet, and giving #1 the piece of mind knowing that he doesn't have to have another big fight with #2.

[bulletproof]

Anyway, I continue to run some searches on local therapists, and I always get the same little handful of results, and none of them make me feel like they're someone I'd want to go talk to repeatedly.

 

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? By looking at a name and maybe a paragraph description?

 

It's interesting to me that you are basically writing walls of text arguing your position on staying stuck, depressed, and unhappy. It does seem that you truly enjoy your victim status, your "tragic" life, so I'm thinking there's not a whole lot more to talk about. Either fix it or don't. You're really just at an impasse at this point.

[Wayfara]

Half #1, again, simply believes that I've put in enough effort over the last 7 or so years that I should be in at least a slightly better position than I'm in right now, and thus, if I haven't been able to make progress yet, I'm simply not going to be able to (making any future efforts basically a waste, because the result will be the same no matter what, in my eyes).

 

Imagine an isolated home schooled kid named Tom, he wants to learn to read but his parents only give him picture books, he isn't allowed to have books with text because his parents feel he is too stupid to learn to read so text would only make him frustrated. The years go by and he keeps nagging on his parents. When he is sixteen his father tells him once for all "you have had sixteen year to learn to read and you haven't, you don't have the brains for it" and to prove his point further he throws him a piece of "War and Peace" and tells him to try reading the first page aloud. Having never seen a full page of letters before Tom doesn't know where to begin. His father snatches back the book and says "there you go, you can't read and never will, stick with your picture books". Do you feel Tom's parents gave him a fair chance to learn to read? How many tries do you think they should have given him before prohibiting him to have books with text?

[MattW]

How exactly did you come to that conclusion? By looking at a name and maybe a paragraph description?

 

Well, pretty much, but what's the alternative? Going to "first sessions" with a number of therapists until I maybe find one I want to stick with? I feel put off a bit by that because I hate the "introductory" stuff and having to go through that a bunch of different times seems pretty draining to me.

 

It's interesting to me that you are basically writing walls of text arguing your position on staying stuck, depressed, and unhappy. It does seem that you truly enjoy your victim status, your "tragic" life, so I'm thinking there's not a whole lot more to talk about. Either fix it or don't. You're really just at an impasse at this point.

 

I'm not trying to defend my position, I'm simply saying that I constrict myself so much and I just don't know how to make myself stop. Yes, technically, I'm "in control" and I can "choose" to stop constricting myself and weighing myself down, but I haven't been very successful at getting myself to do that over the years. Again, I'm not trying to justify the way I act, or anything, I'm just trying to get accross to all of you how I have such a tight unrelenting grip on myself and can't get myself to let go.

 

Imagine an isolated home schooled kid named Tom, he wants to learn to read but his parents only give him picture books, he isn't allowed to have books with text because his parents feel he is too stupid to learn to read so text would only make him frustrated. The years go by and he keeps nagging on his parents. When he is sixteen his father tells him once for all "you have had sixteen year to learn to read and you haven't, you don't have the brains for it" and to prove his point further he throws him a piece of "War and Peace" and tells him to try reading the first page aloud. Having never seen a full page of letters before Tom doesn't know where to begin. His father snatches back the book and says "there you go, you can't read and never will, stick with your picture books". Do you feel Tom's parents gave him a fair chance to learn to read? How many tries do you think they should have given him before prohibiting him to have books with text?

 

I mean, I guess I see what you're getting at, but it's not like I haven't had any sources with which to learn. I've spent a lot of time observing people and their behaviors, trying to learn what makes their relationships tick, trying to learn how to become friends with people. Heck, even if they're not the best, most accurate sources, I've watched plenty of shows and movies with people who have friendships and relationships, which gives me another source of information, and personalities to try to model myself after. And yet, I've learned nothing from that.

 

It'd be more apt to compare me to a child who was given plenty of books yet just couldn't learn how to read. Perhaps my "efforts" over the last years may not seem as big and plentiful as one would demand, but I still feel I've tried enough that I should've made SOME progress by now. I've been out in the world enough that I shouldn't be as bad off as I am. I've seen enough of people around me and via other means that I should be able to connect with people, make friends, date, and everything else, at least on a basic level. And yet, I just can't make it happen.

[Wayfara]

You didn't answer the question. How many attempts to learn how to read should Tom's parents give him before they take away all his books? One attempt? Ten attempts? Infinite attempts? How many attempts are one too many according to you?

 

It'd be more apt to compare me to a child who was given plenty of books yet just couldn't learn how to read.

 

Let's say Tom's parents have a change of heart and give him free access to books but every time he opens a book his father comes up behind him saying "you are stupid, you can't read, you never will, you have no brains, you have no nothing" over and over so Tom can't concentrate on the letters. Can they say they have given Tom a fair chance now to learn how to read?

 

I've spent a lot of time observing people and their behaviors, trying to learn what makes their relationships tick, trying to learn how to become friends with people.

 

Observing people can't replace direct experience. You are not them and they will do what will work for them which doesn't help you much as you need to learn what works for you, different people have different strenghts and weaknesses.

[MattW]

You didn't answer the question. How many attempts to learn how to read should Tom's parents give him before they take away all his books? One attempt? Ten attempts? Infinite attempts? How many attempts are one too many according to you?

 

Uh, well... I mean, I don't know. I don't remember how long it took me to read, and I'm never around kids enough to know how long it takes them to read. So I don't really know what a "normal" time span would be, you know?

 

Let's say Tom's parents have a change of heart and give him free access to books but every time he opens a book his father comes up behind him saying "you are stupid, you can't read, you never will, you have no brains, you have no nothing" over and over so Tom can't concentrate on the letters. Can they say they have given Tom a fair chance to learn how to read now?

 

Well, no. I see what you're saying, and how that relates to me. But I can never really get that "voice" in my head to shut up. At least in your example, it's an external factor; while the child's father shouldn't be doing that to begin with (simply on the principle that that's not so good parenting), at least the child can physically remove himself from it some how, such as reading when his parents aren't around, or something like that. My "voice" is internal, though. I can't remove myself from it, and as much as I try to internally tell it to shut up and leave me alone, I always submit to it in the end.

 

Observing people can't replace direct experience. You are not them and they will do what will work for them which doesn't help you much as you need to learn what works for you, different people have different strenghts and weaknesses.

 

Perhaps, but I feel like "being me" just isn't good enough, at least not in the long term. I seem to have some short term appeal, but it never has any legs. The most prominent example is, again, last summer. I was so on top of the world, that I felt like a whole new person, and for a good 4-5 months, I was trying my hardest to be warm and personable and fun to be around, but I was just "being me", and it seemed to work for a little while. Then it all fell apart, and came crashing down around me, and I ended up right back where I started. In a way, it was like half #2 ran away for a few months, had a ton of fun, but then lost everything I had amassed in those few months, and then went crawling back to half #1, who simply said "Didn't I tell you that's what would happen?".

 

Heck, that's not the only example. There are plenty of times where I let the "real me" shine through, and I had some short term appeal to people, but no longevity. There was a brief couple of months back in high school, for example, where I lucked out and managed to get away from my tormentors, and I found a group of people that seemed alright, and I was really happy and I started opening up and being more fun, and they seemed to enjoy me, but then after those few months ended, the group just kind of scattered, and lost interest in me, and I got sucked back in with my tormentors.

 

So, I always try to look for inspiration in others, I always feel like I'm missing something, I'm not understanding something, I'm not doing something right, so I look to the world around me to show me what "works", and everything, and none of it ever really sinks in with me. I never learn how to apply it, I never learn how to be a proper "person", a person that people want in their lives. In my experience, I'm just the guy that's good for a few witty jokes here and there, or when I have some particular skill that someone may need to temporarily borrow me for, but that's about all I ever amount to, to people. I'm never the guy that people want to have deep conversations with, the guy that people want to spend time with, the guy that people want to be intimate with.

[blueidealist24]

I feel like #1 might be your mother's voice in your head, or maybe the voice of your past tormentors, and not really you. When I read the words "extremely dominant personality," I thought of your mother, especially since you've said that she's tried to discourage you from doing things in the past.

[Wayfara]

Uh, well... I mean, I don't know. I don't remember how long it took me to read, and I'm never around kids enough to know how long it takes them to read. So I don't really know what a "normal" time span would be, you know?

 

Does the normal time span matter? Let's say you are Tom's father, Tom has no half #1 to save him from trying to improve uselessly so as a caring father you have to be his half #1. Tom has already overdrawn the normal learning period to read by two months but he is still enthusiastic so you are afraid he will keep trying. When do you interfere and take away his books?

 

Well, no. I see what you're saying, and how that relates to me. But I can never really get that "voice" in my head to shut up. At least in your example, it's an external factor; while the child's father shouldn't be doing that to begin with (simply on the principle that that's not so good parenting), at least the child can physically remove himself from it some how, such as reading when his parents aren't around, or something like that. My "voice" is internal, though. I can't remove myself from it, and as much as I try to internally tell it to shut up and leave me alone, I always submit to it in the end.

 

You said earlier half #1 thinks you have already had your chance to improve but can half #1 really say he has given you a fair chance to improve yourself when he has been there behind you distracting you with his negativity every time you try? I think no, which makes half #1's argument false because you were never given a chance to begin with. As you are both half #1 and half #2, what do you hope to accomplish by bringing yourself down like that?

 

last summer. I was so on top of the world, that I felt like a whole new person, and for a good 4-5 months, I was trying my hardest to be warm and personable and fun to be around, but I was just "being me", and it seemed to work for a little while. Then it all fell apart, and came crashing down around me, and I ended up right back where I started.

 

Last summer you were on top of the world because you thought this girl liked and your coworkers liked this new happy MattW. But then you were turned down by this girl and your self confidence was destroyed and the new happy MattW was gone making you less fun to be around for your coworkers. Did I get the timeline right? In that case being happy worked, the problem was that you based your happiness on this girl. Had you instead been happy within yourself you wouldn't have been destroyed by this girl turning you down.

 

There was a brief couple of months back in high school, for example, where I lucked out and managed to get away from my tormentors, and I found a group of people that seemed alright, and I was really happy and I started opening up and being more fun, and they seemed to enjoy me, but then after those few months ended, the group just kind of scattered, and lost interest in me, and I got sucked back in with my tormentors.

 

Another example where being happy worked for you. Personally I don't see why the group scattering would indicate that you only have a short term apeal to people. Groups scatter and lose contact all the time, it's life, has happened to me too.

[bulletproof]

Well, pretty much, but what's the alternative? Going to "first sessions" with a number of therapists until I maybe find one I want to stick with? I feel put off a bit by that because I hate the "introductory" stuff and having to go through that a bunch of different times seems pretty draining to me.

 

That is usually what people do, yes. They go to a number of people until they find one they like. And if that's too draining for you, then again, you are at an impasse, and you have run out of options to get out of this situation.

[MattW]

I feel like #1 might be your mother's voice in your head, or maybe the voice of your past tormentors, and not really you. When I read the words "extremely dominant personality," I thought of your mother, especially since you've said that she's tried to discourage you from doing things in the past.

 

Could be. But regardless of whose voice it is, it's still there and it's pretty powerful.

 

Does the normal time span matter? Let's say you are Tom's father, Tom has no half #1 to save him from trying to improve uselessly so as a caring father you have to be his half #1. Tom has already overdrawn the normal learning period to read by two months but he is still enthusiastic so you are afraid he will keep trying. When do you interfere and take away his books?

 

I dunno, it's hard to put myself in that scenario, because if I had a child, I wouldn't abuse him that way. I may be self abusive, but I would never abuse someone else in any way, especially my own child, if I had one.

 

You said earlier half #1 thinks you have already had your chance to improve but can half #1 really say he has given you a fair chance to improve yourself when he has been there behind you distracting you with his negativity every time you try? I think no, which makes half #1's argument false because you were never given a chance to begin with. As you are both half #1 and half #2, what do you hope to accomplish by bringing yourself down like that?

 

Well, half #1 would argue that he hasn't been behind me, distracting me every time, he was simply there for me to come crawling back to every time I failed. And every time I came crawling back to him, that's when he tells me how wrong I was for believing in something better for myself.

 

Last summer you were on top of the world because you thought this girl liked and your coworkers liked this new happy MattW. But then you were turned down by this girl and your self confidence was destroyed and the new happy MattW was gone making you less fun to be around for your coworkers. Did I get the timeline right? In that case being happy worked, the problem was that you based your happiness on this girl. Had you instead been happy within yourself you wouldn't have been destroyed by this girl turning you down.

 

My feelings for her really brought out a lot in me. Yes, I was mostly driven by what would increase my chances with her, but I was seeing everything in a different light. Truth be told, it didn't all go down the crapper when she said no; that's when it stated, yes, but I wanted to hold on to the good feelings I had, and I wanted so badly for something good to come of all of that, but then everything else started going wrong, the people I wanted to be friends with all pulled away from me, she started dating another guy that I hated, and it was all just too much for me to keep holding on. I lost the grip I had on those feelings. I have trouble tapping into those feelings by myself, as well as holding onto them when everything else goes to hell.

 

Another example where being happy worked for you. Personally I don't see why the group scattering would indicate that you only have a short term apeal to people. Groups scatter and lose contact all the time, it's life, has happened to me too.

 

Well, it suggested such to me because they didn't necessarily stop being friends with each other, and the group itself changed a little. Yet, it felt like I sort of got cut out, and they didn't have much interest in keeping me in their social circle. That's when I drifted back to my tormentors, because as abusive as they were, they were "there" for me to come back to.

[Wayfara]

I dunno, it's hard to put myself in that scenario, because if I had a child, I wouldn't abuse him that way. I may be self abusive, but I would never abuse someone else in any way, especially my own child, if I had one.

 

So why is it okay to abuse yourself but not others? You tell yourself you have already had your chance but if your hypothetical children would need longer time than average to learn things you would keep encouraging them. As you are both half #1 and half #2, what's the logic behind that distinction? Wouldn't they also need be saved from making efforts uselessly?

 

Well, half #1 would argue that he hasn't been behind me, distracting me every time, he was simply there for me to come crawling back to every time I failed. And every time I came crawling back to him, that's when he tells me how wrong I was for believing in something better for myself.

 

Talk me through it, let's say you have decided to take a ten minutes run a day (or whatever activity half #1 is against). Half #1 interferes saying you have already tried working out before so trying again is useless. You keep strong though and still want to go out and take that run. For how long on average does half #1 try to convince you what a waste of time running is? When does half #1 leave you to run? Does he ever come out discouraging you while you are out running too?

 

Anyway back to Tom. Sometimes his father let's him read aloud without directly distracting him while forming the words but every time Tom gets a sound wrong, which happens a lot like it does for any beginner, his father tells him what a failure his is, that Tom was stupid to believe that he ever could read and how getting the sound wrong is just another proof of what a hopeless case he is. As punishment Tom will have to go to bed without dinner and Tom feeling discouraged doesn't try to read again that month. Can Tom's father now say he gave Tom a fair chance to learn how to read? He didn't distract Tom, he just picked him up where he failed and told him "the truth" so Tom would learn not to waste his efforts uselessly.

 

Truth be told, it didn't all go down the crapper when she said no; that's when it stated, yes, but I wanted to hold on to the good feelings I had, and I wanted so badly for something good to come of all of that, but then everything else started going wrong, the people I wanted to be friends with all pulled away from me, she started dating another guy that I hated, and it was all just too much for me to keep holding on. I lost the grip I had on those feelings.

 

When did your coworkers notice you were sad about this girl?

 

Well, it suggested such to me because they didn't necessarily stop being friends with each other, and the group itself changed a little. Yet, it felt like I sort of got cut out, and they didn't have much interest in keeping me in their social circle.

 

When groups change the dynamic changes, it probably had nothing to do with you. Or did they specifically tell you "run back to your tormenters, we don't want you here"? Anyway in my opinion I don't think you realize how much "failing" is part of life. The average person loses friends too over the course of their life. I have lost friends. Most times it wasn't even something I did or they did, we just lost contact/interest somewhow as life got busy, maybe they kept contact with other friends for whatever reason, they lived closer or had been friends for longer, doesn't mean we weren't friends while it lasted.

 

That's when I drifted back to my tormentors, because as abusive as they were, they were "there" for me to come back to.

 

So you only gave yourself one attempt and when it fell through you gave yourself up to the tormenters and let yourself be abused for a few years more? How many do you think would have friends if we after every failed attempt decided to abuse ourselves a couple years as punishment? Not many I would say. The average person get friends by practicing more not from abusing themselves and practice involves even more failing. It wouldn't surprise me that if the average in fact has failed more than you have, asked out more girls and thus got rejected more, tried to make more friends and thus has more friends lost over the years, learned the social cues by embarrassing themselves, learned to tell funny jokes by telling a ton of unfunny ones first. Had they punished themselves like you have after each attempt they wouldn't have learned nearly as much. The road to success is accepting failures as part of it.

 

To another topic, what were your interests as a kid? What did you like doing? Was there any subjects in school that you were particulary good at?

[Batya33]

"I dunno, it's hard to put myself in that scenario, because if I had a child, I wouldn't abuse him that way. I may be self abusive, but I would never abuse someone else in any way, especially my own child, if I had one."

 

And there is your answer. You are not doing as well as you want to be in meeting good partners because as you admit you might be "self-abusive". That is a concrete mindset and behavior that you can work on in therapy. It's not that life in unfair or that "everyone else" is at a certain point -it's that you have chosen to have obstacles and self-sabotaging behavior to meeting people in a healthy way. Therapy can help with that a great deal. It's up to you.

[MattW]

So why is it okay to abuse yourself but not others? You tell yourself you have already had your chance but if your hypothetical children would need longer time than average to learn things you would keep encouraging them. As you are both half #1 and half #2, what's the logic behind that distinction? Wouldn't they also need be saved from making efforts uselessly?

 

I guess I'm simply much stricter with and harder on myself than I am with others. Why? I don't really know. I can't come up with anything right now to explain why I feel that way, I just know that I do.

 

Talk me through it, let's say you have decided to take a ten minutes run a day (or whatever activity half #1 is against). Half #1 interferes saying you have already tried working out before so trying again is useless. You keep strong though and still want to go out and take that run. For how long on average does half #1 try to convince you what a waste of time running is? When does half #1 leave you to run? Does he ever come out discouraging you while you are out running too?

 

Anyway back to Tom. Sometimes his father let's him read aloud without directly distracting him while forming the words but every time Tom gets a sound wrong, which happens a lot like it does for any beginner, his father tells him what a failure his is, that Tom was stupid to believe that he ever could read and how getting the sound wrong is just another proof of what a hopeless case he is. As punishment Tom will have to go to bed without dinner and Tom feeling discouraged doesn't try to read again that month. Can Tom's father now say he gave Tom a fair chance to learn how to read? He didn't distract Tom, he just picked him up where he failed and told him "the truth" so Tom would learn not to waste his efforts uselessly.

 

Well, if I were to contemplate doing a 10 minute run, half #1 would kick in almost instantly and start an internal conversation with myself, typically asking questions and planting seeds of fear or doubt. Such internal conversation would sound something like "And where exactly are you going to go for this run? Around the block? You realize how dangerous that is? Remember a few years ago when the mailman was shot and killed on the street you live on in a random act of violence? Do you want to get attacked, or mugged? Do you even know where you're going? What if you go for a run somewhere else and get lost and can't find your way home for a while? What if something happens to you? How would anyone know?", not to mention, in the winter time, there'd also be weather concerns, like "Do you see how much snow is outside? How do you expect to go for a run when you can barely even walk in that? Do you know how cold it is? You're going to freeze to death, or get very sick", etc.

 

Sometimes I can fight through it, and half #1 will basically allow me to do something, just to appease my curiosity, but if/ when it doesn't go so well, half #1 is basically there to say "I told you so..." and harp on me for doubting him. For instance, the therapy thing. Half #1 argued very hard against therapy for the longest time, and then finally said "Okay, fine, go ahead and try it, if it's going to make you shut up". So I did. And after I got out, half #1 basically asked "Well? How did that feel?", to which I responded "Eh... Not that great...", and half #1 then basically went into "I told you so" mode and convinced me that it was a waste of time and didn't make me feel good and wasn't worth the effort.

 

When did your coworkers notice you were sad about this girl?

 

It was probably about 2-3 months after she had rejected me. After she turned me down, I had the bright idea that I could bide my time, stay flirty, and win her over later on, so that kept me afloat for a little while, while I also tried to make friends and build up a social circle to have that for myself. When I started noticing how she had kind of pulled away from me and had started getting chummy with that other guy, I started feeling jealous, and when I found out she actually used to date him, that really burned me up, and that's about when I started spiraling out.

 

When groups change the dynamic changes, it probably had nothing to do with you. Or did they specifically tell you "run back to your tormenters, we don't want you here"? Anyway in my opinion I don't think you realize how much "failing" is part of life. The average person loses friends too over the course of their life. I have lost friends. Most times it wasn't even something I did or they did, we just lost contact/interest somewhow as life got busy, maybe they kept contact with other friends for whatever reason, they lived closer or had been friends for longer, doesn't mean we weren't friends while it lasted.

 

Well, no, they never specifically told me to get away, or anything, but it's kind of a case of actions speaking louder than words. I tried to keep with them, but they just seemed disinterested, compared to how they were for the few months I was friends with them.

 

To another topic, what were your interests as a kid? What did you like doing? Was there any subjects in school that you were particulary good at?

 

I generally did well in school, but there weren't really any subjects I "liked". Classmates and teachers, and whatnot, always made it out like I was very smart, but it was never a matter of me "liking" learning anything, I just felt like I paid attention to the material and did the work that was required of me.

 

As far as what I actually liked, well... I mean, I was always kind of a nerd, and into video games and comic books, something I still retain. I used to like drawing, as a kid; I always wanted to draw my own comic books and stuff, and I thought that would be cool. But, I lost interest in that. I also used to like writing, although it was mostly me writing myself into my favorite cartoons and comics, and whatnot, and making fictional stories.

 

For a number of years in my teens, I had this fictional story I would write regularly; it was basically a weekly TV show with completely fictional characters and stories, and I also used a particular video game to simulate elements of it for me to write out to add to the story. But, it got to a point where it was simply too much work, and I often became frustrated because I could see how creatively lacking it all was. I lost interest over time, and by the time I was about 18 or 19, I had kinda given up on it. I have tried a handful of times over the last several years to revisit that fictional world I created (and little story ideas always pop into my head for it here and there), but it's just never something I can stick with anymore, not to mention, the video game simulation aspect wouldn't quite work out so well anymore and I'd have to completely rethink the mechanics of how to do any of that. I haven't really done any "creative"/ fictional writing in ages, by now. I'm simply too creatively bankrupt, and don't have much of an interest in it anymore, at this point.

 

And there is your answer. You are not doing as well as you want to be in meeting good partners because as you admit you might be "self-abusive". That is a concrete mindset and behavior that you can work on in therapy. It's not that life in unfair or that "everyone else" is at a certain point -it's that you have chosen to have obstacles and self-sabotaging behavior to meeting people in a healthy way. Therapy can help with that a great deal. It's up to you.

 

Perhaps, though I'm not sure how to conquer that "self abusiveness" long enough to give therapy a proper chance. Like I said a little ways up in this post, I basically allow it to talk me out of therapy, and that's not going to work out too well if I'm conversing with my therapist, then having a separate conversation after the fact with half #1, who's convincing me that the therapist is wrong.

[enalover143]

Matt, time to cut the BS with all this half #1 and half #2 nonsense. Now that posters have forced you to stop blaming other external factors (e.g. the world, your mom, your coworkers, etc.) for your inability to grow, you are forced to look within yourself for answers. And instead of doing that you are creating yet another separate entity to put the blame on so you don't have to take responsibility for the change - In this instance "Half #1".

 

No doubt you have conflicting issues and opinions within yourself, but by segregating and isolating the "bad side" into this "Half #1" entity, you are fooling yourself yet again. You are consciously or sub-consciously allowing "Half #2" to play the victim yet again and throw a pity party, and put all the blame and causation on "Half #1" for your troubles.

 

Sure, for simplicity of writing, you can keep calling them Half #1 and Half #2, so it's easier to post. But you should recognize both halves are YOU. YOU are choosing the negative and abusive behavior generated by Half #1. It's all you man. Don't think for a second that isolating this new, separate entity absolves YOU of the responsibility and accountability to take action, take control of your life and change it.

 

Both halves are you. You are one person. They are one and the same, two sides of the same coin. Don't use these mental tricks to delude yourself into thinking Half #2 is all to blame. Reconcile these halves and understand all actions and thought patterns generated from either one originate with YOU, a SINGLE PERSON.

 

Rather than word things like, "Half #1 argued very hard against therapy for the longest time...", you should instead own up to it, 'fess up and say something more along the lines of, "*I* did not want to go to therapy for the longest time." Just be honest with yourself.

[penelope13]

please google: "how to stop negative self talk"

 

there are many simple suggestions how to start working on minimizing the impact of the negative self talk and overcome it. (there is a short youtube video from a tony teegarden that is a good start).

 

while you have said that both halfs are part of you, it seems you are identifying with #2 as your real self - that is hopeful!

 

so PLEASE read up on this google search, and follow some of those suggestions; you can post here about your experiences.

 

additionally, i would recommend (based on some of the things i read

while searching for this), give #1 a silly nick name and start posting in your journal from the perspective of #2 (your true self) only and specify in your responses exactly what is a response from 'insert nick name for #1'.

 

it is apparent as long as #1 believes 'he is in charge' it will be difficult for you to try to implement any kind of change

[enalover143]

please google: "how to stop negative self talk"

 

there are many simple suggestions how to start working on minimizing the impact of the negative self talk and overcome it. (there is a short youtube video from a tony teegarden that is a good start).

 

Completely agree with penelope. Do not think for a moment that the semantics of how you word things and how you tell them to yourself are not important. These are the little things that, over time (i.e. years; your whole life), the more you tell yourself these negative things, or word them in a certain way, they slowly form into bad habits and ingrained thought patterns that become difficult to break out of.

 

You need to start small and a good starting point is to stop talking in: a) Negative, self-defeating ways and, b) Ways that absolve yourself of responsibility / accountability. Rather, start talking in positive, self-empowering ways to yourself and in ways that take ownership for your actions and choices.

 

Those videos would be a good start.