Journaling my "personal growth"

[enalover143]

I think, though, that I'm simply addicted to misery, to pain. As much as I lament about it, I'm completely addicted to the idea of being miserable, of hurting, of heartache, of crying myself to sleep most nights. I'm so addicted that I just don't want to actually consider anything else. As sick and twisted as it is, I think what I really want most is simply to suffer. So that's what I do.

 

So please explain to us then how this is the mark of a person who is happy with themselves and their life?

[MattW]

So please explain to us then how this is the mark of a person who is happy with themselves and their life?

 

Well, I mean... People say "fake it til you make it", right? I guess maybe I hope I can convince myself things are well long enough for things to actually start going my way. I dunno.

[bulletproof]

Well, I mean... People say "fake it til you make it", right? I guess maybe I hope I can convince myself things are well long enough for things to actually start going my way. I dunno.

 

That saying does not mean what you think it does... it means going through the actions to make change until that change becomes a reality. It doesn't mean fake it to yourself, in your mind, only.

[MattW]

That saying does not mean what you think it does... it means going through the actions to make change until that change becomes a reality. It doesn't mean fake it to yourself, in your mind, only.

 

Ah. Well, I've never heard in that context before. I've always heard it about things like, say, confidence, for example. "Pretend you're confident, and eventually, you'll believe it!", or something like that. So, from my perspective, if I pretend I'm happy and upbeat, maybe some day, I'll eventually convince myself that it's true.

[bulletproof]

Ah. Well, I've never heard in that context before. I've always heard it about things like, say, confidence, for example. "Pretend you're confident, and eventually, you'll believe it!", or something like that. So, from my perspective, if I pretend I'm happy and upbeat, maybe some day, I'll eventually convince myself that it's true.

 

That applies as well. But what you're doing is not going to change anything. I think you know that, because it hasn't changed anything so far. Action is what will change things, although a positive attitude certainly helps. But you know that you're not really faking it until you make it even in the attitude department, either, if you're going to be real and honest with yourself.

[MattW]

That applies as well. But what you're doing is not going to change anything. I think you know that, because it hasn't changed anything so far. Action is what will change things, although a positive attitude certainly helps. But you know that you're not really faking it until you make it even in the attitude department, either, if you're going to be real and honest with yourself.

 

True, though I still don't feel like I really know what "action" I'm supposed to take. I'm going to be flat out honest, I really don't want to pursue therapy if I can avoid it. The reason why is simply because I don't see how talking to a therapist will help me to do anything. I've been "talking" to people (albeit, admittedly not "professionals") for years now, dissecting my problems, going over them, and trying to change my line of thinking, all to no success. Yes, I'm a very resistant person, as you've all seen, and unfortunately, I see no reason to believe that wouldn't also apply to a therapist. Why would I listen to them any more than anyone on here? Heck, the one time I did go to a therapist, I didn't feel anything good from it, and I couldn't even do the simple things she suggested I try, and then I never returned again. How can therapy help me if I don't want to listen to it, if I don't want to do anything the therapist suggests me to do?

 

Beyond therapy, what else can I do? Go to random bars and other places by myself, and hope that maybe I'll strike up conversations with and befriend strangers? More likely, I would just go places by myself, and keep to myself, then go home. There aren't any activities or locations I find desirable or interesting enough to go to on my own, for no other reason than to just enjoy myself. If I don't have people to go out somewhere with, I'm content just sitting at home doing whatever.

 

The thing is, I'm trying to pretend to be happy to convince myself that I actually am, because when I really look at things, aside from the complete lack of human companionship, my life really isn't that bad. I have a lot of nice things, I have a job that pays the bills, I have an education that I actually enjoy pursuing, I have a cozy home, I have more media at my disposal to consume than I'll ever have anywhere near enough time for. I SHOULD be happy, with all of these aspects of my life being the way they are. I SHOULD be able to be happy to go about my daily life while not stressing myself out over how lonely I am. I SHOULD be able to be happy and live my life knowing that the good things I want will come along eventually.

 

There's no good reason why I shouldn't be happy with my life in general, beyond the lack of a social life. I have it pretty good, to be honest. I should absolutely be happy with my life.

 

Yet, there's still this void, this "hole" I feel inside me, that I just can't fill with anything. I can't really appreciate the good things I have, I can't stop thinking about how lonely I am, I don't feel any kind of interest or excitement from most things, I don't derive real pleasure from anything, really.

[Batya33]

"Yet, there's still this void, this "hole" I feel inside me, that I just can't fill with anything. I can't really appreciate the good things I have, I can't stop thinking about how lonely I am, I don't feel any kind of interest or excitement from most things, I don't derive real pleasure from anything, really."

 

Once again it's not about "can't" it's about "choose not to". Once again, you have to figure out how to get from "choose not to" to "I choose to grow and these are the ways I'm going to go about it (whether that is seeking professional counseling or figuring it out on your own. Every time you say "can't" in this context -and you say it a lot - force yourself to stop making excuses with words like "can't" or "don't know" or "but/but it's hard". You know what my child learned to do recently? Put on his own socks. For months he told me "it's too hard" "I can't try" until one day he realized how cool it is to put on your own sicks like a big boy. So be a big boy and stop making excuses.

[bulletproof]

True, though I still don't feel like I really know what "action" I'm supposed to take.

 

This is a 90+ page thread that has suggested many actions besides therapy. People have suggested exercise, moving out from your parents, joining meetups, volunteering, initiating outings with coworkers, and so on, and so on, and so on. For you to say you don't know is not true- you just don't want to do anything.

 

Furthermore, you are not entitled to say you tried therapy. You went to one session with one therapist. That is not trying therapy.

[bulletproof]

If I don't have people to go out somewhere with, I'm content just sitting at home doing whatever.

 

I can't really appreciate the good things I have, I can't stop thinking about how lonely I am...

 

Total contradiction. You are not content.

[MattW]

Once again it's not about "can't" it's about "choose not to". Once again, you have to figure out how to get from "choose not to" to "I choose to grow and these are the ways I'm going to go about it (whether that is seeking professional counseling or figuring it out on your own. Every time you say "can't" in this context -and you say it a lot - force yourself to stop making excuses with words like "can't" or "don't know" or "but/but it's hard". You know what my child learned to do recently? Put on his own socks. For months he told me "it's too hard" "I can't try" until one day he realized how cool it is to put on your own sicks like a big boy. So be a big boy and stop making excuses.

 

What I'm saying, though, is that this:

 

I don't feel any kind of interest or excitement from most things, I don't derive real pleasure from anything, really.

 

Leads to this:

 

Yet, there's still this void, this "hole" I feel inside me, that I just can't fill with anything. I can't really appreciate the good things I have

 

I'm not trying to make excuses or say "I can't", "it's too hard", etc., but at the root of things, I just don't really derive pleasure or satisfaction from much of anything. To me, it's all fleeting. The rare occasion that something does bring me pleasure or satisfaction, it's very temporary. Even the things that I LIKE doing don't bring me much pleasure or satisfaction. That interest, that excitement, that feeling of satisfaction is always completely lost on me. Nothing ever interests me or excites me. Even when I do something good, even when I accomplish something, I feel no sense of satisfaction from it. Hell, I conquered my crippling fear of driving in the span of two weeks, a year and a half ago, and I take no real pride or satisfaction in that. That should be a big deal to me, I should feel good about myself for having been able to do that. But I don't. I never really did. Maybe very briefly when it actually happened, but beyond that, nothing.

 

I don't know how to operate under that mentality... I just never really feel like taking any action, because I feel nothing about it. I feel no interest or curiosity beforehand, I feel no excitement or pride during, and I feel no sense of accomplishment or satisfaction after the fact. To me, it's all just a series of motions to go through that I feel nothing for.

 

This is a 90+ page thread that has suggested many actions besides therapy. People have suggested exercise, moving out from your parents, joining meetups, volunteering, initiating outings with coworkers, and so on, and so on, and so on. For you to say you don't know is not true- you just don't want to do anything.

 

This ties in to what I just wrote above (although, again, I've attempted to initiate outings with coworkers many times over the last 16-ish months, and it always resulted in failure unless they invited me). Yes, you're right, it's not particularly accurate of me to say "I don't know how", but that's not what I'm directing the "I don't know how" at. I'm directing the "I don't know how" at my inability to feel anything. Interest, curiosity, excitement, a sense of accomplishment, pleasure. Yes, I could go through all these motions, but what is it really doing for me if I feel completely disconnected from any of them?

 

Furthermore, you are not entitled to say you tried therapy. You went to one session with one therapist. That is not trying therapy.

 

I didn't mean it like that. I meant exactly what I said; I went to a therapy session, I had no real interest in absorbing what she had to say, and I felt no desire to even attempt the little things she suggested I try, nor did I feel any desire to return.

 

Total contradiction. You are not content.

 

I'm "content" in the sense that I know I SHOULD be "content". Again, I fully recognize that I have things pretty good, all things considered. I should absolutely be happy about what I do have in my life.

[bulletproof]

Yes, I could go through all these motions, but what is it really doing for me if I feel completely disconnected from any of them?

 

The point is to go though them until you do feel something. But you are unwilling to do so. You may have made half-hearted attempts in the past, but it wasn't enough.

 

You can extract points all day and argue semantics, but it's irrelevant. If you are this dispassionate about your life, these are your results.

 

And yes, you are making excuses and saying it's too hard, despite you backtracking and saying that's not what you meant. By saying you don't feel excited about something, so therefore you don't want to do it, that's an excuse. I am not excited about everything I do, but I do them because I understand there are long-term results I desire. That is the difference between an adult and a child.

[penelope13]

what you describe is severe depression: inability to derive pleasure from anything and severe lack of motivation - there are medicines to treat this

[Rosti87]

Matt,

 

You have started so many threads now. All of them having the same theme. And hours of advice has been thrown your way. The question you have to ask yourself at this point is how many more threads do you have to create before you take action? How many more hours of time will be spend by others to help while you do not take action?

 

ENA is not a therapist. You say you don't want to go to one, but you are obviously using this site as a therapist whether you care to admit it or not. The amount of months you spent here could have been used in therapy and you may have discovered a few things about yourself in the process.

 

I feel that here you are pushing off your responsibility and procrastinating on taking action. PLEASE be honest with yourself and stop wasting not only your own time but the time of others who sincerely want you to get better.

[enalover143]

So be a big boy and stop making excuses.

 

Matt, are you man or mouse? You must decide. Which would you rather be?

[MattW]

And yes, you are making excuses and saying it's too hard, despite you backtracking and saying that's not what you meant. By saying you don't feel excited about something, so therefore you don't want to do it, that's an excuse. I am not excited about everything I do, but I do them because I understand there are long-term results I desire. That is the difference between an adult and a child.

 

But it's a lot deeper than "I don't want to!". I'm not saying I expect to feel excited about everything I do. Rather, I'm saying that I have no interest in things because they don't bring me any kind of satisfaction of sense of accomplishment. Even the things that I would say that I enjoy doing just seem so... hollow, to me. Like, if I play a video game, read a comic book, watch a movie/ show I like, heck, even the times I've gone out with coworkers, I basically enjoy the activities while I'm doing them, but immediately afterwards, I just feel empty. Like "Alright, well... Now what?".

 

And again, even accomplishments don't bring me any sense of pleasure or pride. Like I said with the driving thing, I pretty much don't care at all that I conquered that fear. There have been times people here, in this topic, have commended me for taking certain actions and doing certain things, and I always brushed off those things because I didn't feel any kind of accomplishment or pleasure from those things.

 

Not to mention, I'm finding myself in a place with my education where I'm starting to get kinda "indifferent". I mean, I like what I'm learning, and I want to get into this kind of career, and I'm not contemplating doing anything silly like dropping out, but I would say I was getting enjoyment out of my classes for at least the first few months, and now I'm sort of at a point where I just feel indifferent about it.

 

Call it a crutch or an excuse if you must, but this also plays into why I'm so desperate to keep something going with the girl I like. Getting to spend time with her brings me pleasure, I actually "feel" something. Granted, yes, I've gone through a lot of disappointment as well as bouts of jealousy and anger, but I don't want to let go of the one thing I've been able to find in years that I actually derive some form of pleasure from.

 

You have started so many threads now. All of them having the same theme. And hours of advice has been thrown your way. The question you have to ask yourself at this point is how many more threads do you have to create before you take action? How many more hours of time will be spend by others to help while you do not take action?

 

I don't know if I've ever made this clear or not, but this is the last thread I will ever make on ENA. The whole point of this "journal" thread was so that I could centralize it all over time instead of making a new post every other week to talk about the same stuff. Rather than clog up the board with my issues, they're all here, in this one thread. It's going to take some time, but either one of three things will happen: 1) I'll get better and move on from this journal, 2) I'll get bored and simply take a leave for a while, or 3) I'll continue posting in it for the next several years. Either way, I do not intend to ever start another thread at ENA. This one is it for me.

 

ENA is not a therapist. You say you don't want to go to one, but you are obviously using this site as a therapist whether you care to admit it or not. The amount of months you spent here could have been used in therapy and you may have discovered a few things about yourself in the process.

 

True, but I see things this way: I'm going to be resistant to who I'm talking to either way; therapy costs money, coming here does not. Why waste money on something that I'm not going to be open to, when I can use this free, open environment to discuss things and maybe, just maybe, eventually hear something that'll trigger something in my head? Therapy seems pointless to me if I'm just going to ignore everything the therapist says and/ or give them excuses as to why I don't listen, but that's what I'd end up doing. So why bother with it?

 

Matt, are you man or mouse? You must decide. Which would you rather be?

 

Well, I'd like to be a "man"; unfortunately, I've always been more of a "mouse", and that's all I really know how to be.

 

what you describe is severe depression: inability to derive pleasure from anything and severe lack of motivation - there are medicines to treat this

 

I suppose that's always what it comes down to, isn't it? I just wish it didn't have to be that way. I wish I could fix my own problems, I wish I could do it without needing to rely on chemicals to do so... See, having these issues makes it difficult to even make a commitment to therapy long enough for medication to even be a factor.

 

I dunno... I'll keep therapy "on the table", but I just don't have faith in it to go back and pursue it, at least not right now. Not to mention (and I fully admit that this is an "excuse"), I just can't stand driving with the way the weather is for me right now. The ice, the snow, the slipperiness, the inability to control the car, it just makes me a nervous wreck, and considering the nearest therapists all seem to be about 30-40 minute drives, I just don't want to have to deal with that much driving in these conditions. If I could find someone more local, I'd be up for that, but I just can't stomach the driving in this winter weather.

[bulletproof]

But it's a lot deeper than "I don't want to!".

 

Rather, I'm saying that I have no interest in things because they don't bring me any kind of satisfaction of sense of accomplishment.

 

These two statements are more or less the same.

 

So here we are. You are depressed, so depressed that you cannot do anything. That includes getting medication for it. So you're done, then. That's pretty much it.

[penelope13]

start looking for a psychiatrist and discuss medication. you may be more ammenable to therapy once the medication kicks in.

 

after years and years of being unhappy, crying yourself into sleep, not experiencing any joy i don't follow the logic in preferring to stay miserable rather than try something that is helping millions of people on a daily basis.

 

you ARE dependent on chemicals, the ones in your body that are out of balance as well as the ones you are feeding your body and that (by your accounts) don't seem to be a good choice in counterbalancing this imbalance

[Deciduous]

Hi Mattw,

 

You are a testament to where hard work and dedicated commitment will get you. You have made your choice and you remain faithful to it. Throughout this thread, you have staunchly remained committed to inaction. Your life will continue to reflect those choices of fear and inaction.

 

The rest of us can learn a lot from this thread. I have. This thread has taught me the most about life. You have been the best teacher I could have had, mattw.

 

I had no idea how much negative thought patterns dictate one's outer experience. I had no idea how important my positive meditation sessions were. No idea how important it was to focus on my positive goals and hold my focus there, instead of being distracted by my fears.

 

You have allowed fear to conquer and direct your life. You have allowed the bullies and your parents to dominate your waking life and completely dominate your path - because initially that was the easiest path to go down. The path of least resistance.

 

There is a lesson in this for all of us.

 

YET THIS IS YOUR CHOICE. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THIS.

 

The bullies have won. They win every day, every minute, every second. The have won for the last decade. They will win for the next decade. You will continue to do what you have always done. You will always get what you've always gotten. I will bet money on it.

 

But that is your choice. In a way I do admire your tenacity. You've made a commitment to your lonliness and unhealthy thought patterns. and you are dedicated to sticking with it. Until death do you part.

 

You have taught me so many wonderful lessons about fear, and for that I am truly, truly grateful. I am not kidding. I'm so pleased I clicked on your thread all those weeks ago.

 

You've probably taught me more than any-one, mattw.

 

Deci

[Batya33]

"But that is your choice. In a way I do admire your tenacity. You've made a commitment to your lonliness and unhealthy thought patterns. and you are dedicated to sticking with it. Until death do you part."

 

I see what you're saying -and I so enjoyed reading your insights -but I wonder -isn't it so much easier to commit to inaction and negativity than to commit to what you have done and continue to do, for example? I think so.

[MattW]

Look, I'm sorry that I never actually make any progress, and that I'm just one disappointment after the next. I just... can't get myself to "feel" anything. For the most part, any positive feelings or emotions I have are extremely brief and fleeting. How can I do anything to make any kind of progress with my life when I feel nothing about anything? I don't feel happiness, or joy, or excitement, I don't feel proud of myself for accomplishing things, I just never feel "good".

 

I don't like this lack of feeling, but it drains me of any motivation I may have to do much of anything. Even get help.

 

I don't know what to do with myself. I have all these thoughts and desires in my head, but I have no "feelings" for which to pursue them. All I really have is... well, here. Maybe I upset you guys all the time and make you angry, but at least I have this place to turn to. In some sort of way, this place gives me one string to keep hanging on to, to stop me from falling into complete insanity, complete despair.

 

But, yes, perhaps my presence here is not fair to any of you. So let me ask this... What do YOU guys want me to do? Would you all like me to leave? If that's what you guys want, I can do that. Heck, I'll even try to get my account banned, so that I can't EVER post here again. Before you say that I'm being dramatic, though, keep in mind that I can't make any promises by staying here. I can't promise when or even if I'll get better. I can't promise when or if I'll ever stop posting about the same issues.

 

I don't want to leave, but I can't promise I won't continue to be me. So, I ask again, what do all of you want me to do?

[Catherine_3]

If something isn't getting you the results you're looking for, why not try something else?

 

When I drink coffee, I get really happy. Maybe you should try that.

 

And why don't you start a new journal where you write down all the little things (the smaller the better) that are interesting, pretty or that make you joyful.

[penelope13]

How can I do anything to make any kind of progress with my life when I feel nothing about anything?

 

Get treated for your depression (i.e. find a psychiatrist)!

 

Clinical depression is due to a number of chemicals/hormones etc being not expressed in their right amounts. Medication can help to rectify this imbalance.

[enalover143]

Look, I'm sorry that I never actually make any progress, and that I'm just one disappointment after the next.

 

Why are you sorry to us? We're just observers/trying to help. You should be sorry to *yourself* for what you are doing to *yourself*. We aren't the ones going home lonely at night with no one to warm our beds, which is what you claim to desire.

 

Maybe I upset you guys all the time and make you angry, but at least I have this place to turn to.

 

Oh no Matt, don't play the victim again and do the pity party. Don't turn it on US. We aren't upset or angry. Just confused why you would go in circles like this. Why would we be upset? It's your life. You should be upset with yourself. I'm pretty sure most posters to this thread are well-adjusted and we don't get upset because a person doesn't take advice. You are thinking of this from your perspective, because you probably would get upset at a little thing like that. Again, be upset with yourself and that you are not achieving what you want.

 

But, yes, perhaps my presence here is not fair to any of you. So let me ask this... What do YOU guys want me to do? Would you all like me to leave? If that's what you guys want, I can do that. Heck, I'll even try to get my account banned, so that I can't EVER post here again. Before you say that I'm being dramatic, though, keep in mind that I can't make any promises by staying here. I can't promise when or even if I'll get better. I can't promise when or if I'll ever stop posting about the same issues.

 

I don't want to leave, but I can't promise I won't continue to be me. So, I ask again, what do all of you want me to do?

 

Oh good Matt, doing your usual thing and turning it around and blaming the posters who are trying to help you. Very gracious of you. Very passive-aggressive too. Playing the victim card, making it seem like you're being yelled at / ostracized, so you can do the pity party. Why don't you just own up to your actions for once. You love the drama. You started this thread and as I mentioned several times, YOU chose to keep it open so people can respond. If you want to close the thread, or start a read-only one, or close your account, or leave ENA forever, so be it. That is YOUR choice. That's not us making you do it or asking you to do it. Don't use as an excuse for running away from your problems or running away from criticism, which you obviously can't face. You won't make us feel bad with your tactics. We don't want you do to anything...you have to want to do it for yourself. Honestly, I can't speak for others, but I just give my advice, but if you don't do anything with it, well that's your loss. I sleep just fine in my bed at night whether someone takes my advice or not.

 

And why is your presence unfair to us? You're making it seem like you're the center of our world or something. What an odd statement. You can go or leave I don't think people would be upset one way or the other. This is a community where people post, share ideas, advice, thoughts, emotions. But it is not the center of our worlds. Maybe it is yours (and if so, all the more reason to find other external interests and motivators).

 

But yeah, just stop with the victim thing man. Just own up to your actions / desires. If you wanna close this this thread or leave, then please do so. But I can bet my money you'll be back posting again sometime, be it in 5 days, 5 months, or 5 years.

[enalover143]

Before you say that I'm being dramatic, though, keep in mind that I can't make any promises by staying here. I can't promise when or even if I'll get better. I can't promise when or if I'll ever stop posting about the same issues.

 

I don't want to leave, but I can't promise I won't continue to be me. So, I ask again, what do all of you want me to do?

 

Oh and everyone recognizes you may not keep your promises, or even change at all, or you might take years to change. But since this is an open thread, we are free to try and help and helping often means challenging you to stretch yourself, to do more, etc.

 

So just as you can't promise to move forward, we also can't promise not to push you forward. It works both ways. If you think that statement means people will stop giving you the same advice or giving constructive criticism, you are dead wrong. I honestly feel you just don't like facing constructive feedback and you cower away from it. If that is the case, then I suggest you close this thread or make it read-only, because this is an ADVICE FORUM. People will, by nature of this board, POST ADVICE.

 

If you can't handle it, don't come to play ball.

[bulletproof]

So, I ask again, what do all of you want me to do?

 

You are, to the bitter end, avoiding making a choice. If you don't want to post here, don't. If you do, do. But by posting on a public forum, you are opening yourself up to critique and response.

 

I also see that you resorted to extremes again ("just one disappointment after the next"). Nobody has said anything even remotely close to that. Please re-read that speech and try to pinpoint where you are falling into victim mentality.