Journaling my "personal growth"

[Deciduous]

Mattw,

 

I can tell you what I don't want. Emotional manipulation. The post above is designed to make us see you as a victim of your circumstances. It is dishonest. It is designed to elicit sympathy.

 

I have a great deal of sympathy for all people caught in abusive situations not of their own making. Children, innocent prisoners, people in the third world, etc. I don't have sympathy for you mattw, because I understand that you have designed your world exactly as you want it.

 

So you must be getting some-thing out of it. And who am I to disparage your choices. But don't try to elict my sympathy, because that does annoy me.

 

You have free-will. With that free-will, you have designed your current life.

 

 

 

What do I want??? Honesty. How about responsibility. The above post takes no responsilibilty. It shirks answerability. Please don't tell me about you "lack of feelings." Penelope and others have told you what you need to do if suffering from depression.

 

It's fine if you don't do it. It does not affect my life one jot. BUT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR CHOICES. Admit that you are choosing this. I have yet to see an honest paragraph in this thread where you say.

"Thank you guys for your suggestions, for your time and your input. I know that your suggestions will help me. The walks, the therapy, the positive thinking. I know that they will help because they have helped hundreds of thousands of people before. But I will not be acting on those suggestions, because I choose not to. I prefer seeing myself as a victim. I enjoy being victim. I gain comfort from this persona. . It feels safe being a victim.

 

Almost everything I have written is a lie. It is a lie to protect me from change. If you don't like that, you are welcome to leave my thread. If not, you are welcome to hang around and see how it all turns out.

 

I work hard to keep my illusions. I don't like people trying to break them. It makes me feel threatened. I work very hard to keep them in place. So hard in fact, that there is no room or energy to change my life. I've written hundreds of pages to keep those illusions. I need them. I don't want those illusions to die or what will I be left with. It is too terrifying and scary.

 

I don't want a therapist to start tearing them down. They are my comfort blanket. I would rather die alone than lose them. You are now asking me to work hard to tear them down, but I don't want to. So there, deal"

 

So when is that post coming mattw?? When is a real post coming. You want a real relationship, mattw??? Yet you are struggling to be honest with a bunch of anonymous strangers on the internet. We are inconsequential in the great scheme of things. 10 years down the line, you won't remember our names. This is your training test in interpersonal relationships. This is as interpersonal as it gets.

 

I ask you for one thing, mattw. Honesty. Yet what do I get? Emotional manipulation.

 

Deci

[MattW]

I... *sigh* What can I say, Deci? You're right.

[MattW]

I've been doing some reflecting, and I'm ready to attempt to be as honest as I possibly can.

 

Yes, on a very deep level, I'm resistant to change. I'm scared. I have doubts. I choose to give in to those fears and those doubts, because that's what I'm comfortable with. I don't like going out of my comfort zone, because when I do, I panic, and when I panic, I make bad choices and mess things up. And unfortunately, I don't learn from past experiences. If I make a mistake, even if I know it was a mistake, I'll still make the same exact mistake if I find myself in the situation again some time later on. I realize that no one likes stepping out of their comfort zone, and I also realize that you have to step out of it to advance in life. But it just scares me too much, and I choose to give into that fear every single time.

 

Any time I "play the victim" and twist around anything any of you say, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth; rather, I'm expressing how I feel about myself. For instance, most recently, I know that no one said I was "one disappoint after the next", but that's how I feel about myself, and I project it onto others to tear myself down.

 

I absolutely appreciate all the time and energy people here have spent responding to me. We may butt heads on occasions, but there's not a single person I've encountered in any of my topics that I disliked, hated, or had any ill will towards whatsoever. There's not a piece of advice any of you have given me that I think is "bad", "worthless", or "wrong". I don't want the discussions to stop, I don't want you guys to leave me. I have nothing against constructive criticism; again, I simply choose to let my fears and my doubts dictate my actions (or inaction, in this case), I choose to give in to them, and keep myself stuck.

 

You have to realize, though, that much of what I've said hasn't been dishonest, per se. The thing is, I like to think I understand my problems, but the truth is, I'm a very confused individual. Sometimes the thoughts and ideas I have just don't add up, sometimes the things I express are contradictory, but at the end of the day, it's all just me trying to make sense of the giant mess that makes up the inside of my head. Sometimes I say this, sometimes I say that, and it's all me just grasping at straws, trying to figure out how to clean the mess in my head. It's overwhelming. It feels like I'm constantly drowning within my own head. Could a professional help me sort through all thus muck? Perhaps. But for some stupid reason, I want to do it myself. I want to be able to say that I worked through my issues and became a better, healthier person on my own. Unfortunately, I have too much pride to be willing to admit that I don't have the capabilities of doing that.

 

Not everything I say is meant to be some kind of smokescreen to protect my status, either. Some of it is very real. The lack of good feelings, the lack of interest in most anything, the lack of any kind of sense of accomplishment, satisfaction, or pleasure; that's very real, and very scary.

 

Another thing that is very real is that, regardless of how much I go in circles and spin my wheels, there IS a part of me somewhere in there that DOES want to get better, that DOES want to be a better, happy, healthy person. That's not a lie. I wouldn't be here if that part of me didn't exist. If that part of me didn't exist, I would've just shut the world out completely, and went through life hating the world, hating anyone and everyone. But I'm not. I have this little shred of "good" in me that's buried underneath all my crap, and I sincerely hope I can dig it out some day.

 

What actions do I intend to take? Therapy? Medication? Joining meetup clubs? Finding new hobbies and/ or activities? For the sake of honesty, I admit that I don't intend on doing any of that any time soon, because again, I'm too terrified to step out of my comfort zone. That said, I'm not saying "never"; I just need to learn how to get out of my own way, first. I make little steps, I make steps that make sense to me. Going to lunch with this guy from work, for instance, didn't force me to step that far out of my comfort zone. But I get frustrated very easily, I get frustrated with myself. I want more than the little steps I actually take, I want more progress in a quicker span of time, but that's all the progress I'm willing to make in that kind of time frame. I get frustrated and irritated with myself for being so slow and so behind, yet that frustration only makes me want to hide in my comfort zone even more.

 

And that's where I'm at.

[enalover143]

Deci, one of the most insightful posts I have ever read on ENA. Excellent analysis and perspective.

[Batya33]

"I admit that I don't intend on doing any of that any time soon, because again, I'm too terrified to step out of my comfort zone. "

 

Then what do you get out of posting here?

[MattW]

Then what do you get out of posting here?

 

Honestly? I guess part of me just wants to be able to talk to people, and part of me wants to feel like someone cares. Maybe I'm just some anonymous person that has no bearing on any of your lives, but deep down, I like to think that you guys continue talking to me because you do care, at least to some extent, and that you do want to see me succeed. As much as I butt heads with most of you, I feel like this is the only place I have where anyone at all really cares about me to any extent.

[Batya33]

No one is butting heads with you. People just continue to call you on your various attempts to evade simple truths. You've now been honest that you don't intend to take meaningful actions -actions outside your comfort zone -to support personal growth. The concern then is that someone showing that he/she care is in effect enabling your decision to stay, basically, at the status quo.

[penelope13]

What possible worse thing than being lonely, crying yourself to sleep, not having any motivation, not having any joy and pleasure (emotionally, mentally), not having any friends or love could possibly happen to you if you were to step out of your comfort zone?

[bulletproof]

Could a professional help me sort through all thus muck? Perhaps. But for some stupid reason, I want to do it myself.

 

I agree that is stupid. I also think it's dishonest- I think your main agenda is to do it the simplest and quickest way possible, which therapy is not. However, it might end up being the only way.

[MattW]

No one is butting heads with you. People just continue to call you on your various attempts to evade simple truths.

 

I mean that I've been butting heads with you guys, though, by being as resistant as I am.

 

You've now been honest that you don't intend to take meaningful actions -actions outside your comfort zone -to support personal growth. The concern then is that someone showing that he/she care is in effect enabling your decision to stay, basically, at the status quo.

 

Fair enough. Though even if everyone backs off so as to stop enabling me, that's not really going to amount to much besides me feeling even worse.

 

What possible worse thing than being lonely, crying yourself to sleep, not having any motivation, not having any joy and pleasure (emotionally, mentally), not having any friends or love could possibly happen to you if you were to step out of your comfort zone?

 

That's a good question that I simply don't have a logical answer to. I guess sometimes, the way you feel about something and the way you react it just don't make much sense.

 

I think on some level, I've simply taken past failures to heart, and I don't want to go through that again. I know everyone fails and has to pick themselves up and keep trying, and I'm not trying to argue that. Again, though, I've taken my past failures (and lack of successes) to heart, and I'm too scared of the pain that comes along with further failure.

[Batya33]

"Fair enough. Though even if everyone backs off so as to stop enabling me, that's not really going to amount to much besides me feeling even worse."

 

And perhaps feeling worse might end up being a motivator for change. So, you're asking people to spend their time responding to your venting/musings/rationalizations so that you can be enabled and not have to take real action. Your baby steps would be VERY meaningful except for the problem that you won't take things all the way to the actual goal -with your artificial ending point, sure, you might have short term bandaids ("see I went out for lunch with a new person!" "see, I noticed some positive things today!) but not long term results.

[Deciduous]

The concern then is that someone showing that he/she care is in effect enabling your decision to stay, basically, at the status quo.

 

And perhaps feeling worse might end up being a motivator for change. So, you're asking people to spend their time responding to your venting/musings/rationalizations so that you can be enabled and not have to take real action. Your baby steps would be VERY meaningful except for the problem that you won't take things all the way to the actual goal -with your artificial ending point, sure, you might have short term bandaids ("see I went out for lunch with a new person!" "see, I noticed some positive things today!) but not long term results.

 

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

 

This is the equivilent of serving tea and sympathy to a man with an sucking chest wound. From time to time we tentatively suggest you phone for a ambulance (read: therapist) where upon you assure us the Darjeeling is helping and you have high hopes of digging the bullet out yourself.

 

So now we're all being asked to collude in the illusion. That matt needs cups of tea for his recovery.

 

The truth being, without us you would simply go back to the way you were. Nothing would change apart from the fact you'd be able to fit into more video games into your day, and feel your very real lonliness and the sucking wound, realistically.

 

So here we are, on the road-side, proferring a small kleenex every time you show signs of bleeding-out.

 

From time to time you sink into delirious confusion and imagine you are going to be rescued by an emotionally healthy and endlessly giving girl, who will magic the bullet from your side, and raise you to your feet, Lazuras-like, before you depart into the sunset.

 

At this point we toss cold water into your face bringing you round to reality.

 

But the pain is so bad, so stark, so lonely so devastating - that we always find you swooning back in unconsciousness.

 

...Where upon you enter your 2nd favourite dream. You start muttering that you don't know what to do, you don't know what an ambulance is and all surgeons are hacks.

 

And again the get the Evian bottle out, slooshing over your face...

 

And so it continues...

 

Isn't that about the size of it, mattw? We collude with the illusion that you are on the mend- that the sucking wound is spontaneously healing - without intervention - and you are moments away from successfully performing minor open heart surgery on youself. As long as we keep the cups of tea coming.

 

At this point the only question remains...is how many sugars do you want?

 

If you want us to pretend that there isn't serious issue here, that requires theraupic intervention and medication, then we can certainly play that game. This is your thread.

 

You have forced us all into your illusion, Mattw. The illusion that we are providing adequete social and human contact, that you aren't desperately, and painfully isolated from personal emotional input and support.

 

Deci

[bulletproof]

I guess sometimes, the way you feel about something and the way you react it just don't make much sense.

 

This is where I believe one of your primary issues lies: we often cannot control how we feel about situations, because feelings are not logical. However, the way we react is perfectly within our realm of control. How you react is a choice.

[MattW]

And perhaps feeling worse might end up being a motivator for change. So, you're asking people to spend their time responding to your venting/musings/rationalizations so that you can be enabled and not have to take real action. Your baby steps would be VERY meaningful except for the problem that you won't take things all the way to the actual goal -with your artificial ending point, sure, you might have short term bandaids ("see I went out for lunch with a new person!" "see, I noticed some positive things today!) but not long term results.

 

Fair enough, and very true. If you or anyone else wants to back off due to enabling me, I respect that, and I wouldn't hold it against any of you personally.

 

But I've taken self-imposed leaves from here in the past, and it ultimately did nothing for me. The time I gained from not coming here was just spent doing nothing but feeling bad. I understand not wanting to enable me, but is it really that bad compared to me just doing nothing but feeling bad and alone?

 

Isn't that about the size of it, mattw? We collude with the illusion that you are on the mend- that the sucking wound is spontaneously healing - without intervention - and you are moments away from successfully performing minor open heart surgery on youself. As long as we keep the cups of tea coming.

 

At this point the only question remains...is how many sugars do you want?

 

If you want us to pretend that there isn't serious issue here, that requires theraupic intervention and medication, then we can certainly play that game. This is your thread.

 

You have forced us all into your illusion, Mattw. The illusion that we are providing adequete social and human contact, that you aren't desperately, and painfully isolated from personal emotional input and support.

 

I guess the truth is, I don't really know what I want from you guys, Deci. I just... don't want to be alone. I don't know if I can hack it in the "real world", making friends, dating, any of that. I've been completely unsuccessful thus far, and often times, I think it's simply too late for me. I have no one, even my own family doesn't really care about me. Even if you guys get harsh with me, even though I tend to say a lot of stupid things and get on your guys' nerves for being the way I am, at least I have people here who will talk to me, familiar faces that want to see me succeed.

 

I dunno. All I know is that I'd much rather have this place, than to be completely alone.

 

This is where I believe one of your primary issues lies: we often cannot control how we feel about situations, because feelings are not logical. However, the way we react is perfectly within our realm of control. How you react is a choice.

 

True, and that's an issue I struggle with; I allow my emotions to go wild and dictate the way I react, and often times, the results are not so good.

[Deciduous]

I dunno. All I know is that I'd much rather have this place, than to be completely alone.

 

But you are completely alone in the real world.

 

This virtual reality is not enough to sustain or heal you. It simply allows you to tread water. And you will remain completely alone until your desire for emotional health and real companionship - outweighs - your fear of failure.

 

You can do this dance for years. I know people that have.

 

I have a friend called Paul who suffered severe and spiteful bullying during his university days. He remained angry and alone and devoid of healthy relationships until he was 45. At which point the penny finally dropped. He realised on his current track he was never going to get married or have the children that he wanted. He also had Aspergers which complicated the issue and increased his self-hate.

 

Eventually he went into therapy in January 2012. Can you believe it? The bullying occurred in the late 80s. Yet he was one of the lucky ones. At least he finally paid for therapy. Some men just get tired of the struggle and the pain and commit suicide.

 

Deci

[MattW]

But you are completely alone in the real world.

 

This virtual reality is not enough to sustain or heal you. It simply allows you to tread water. And you will remain completely alone until your desire for emotional health and real companionship - outweighs - your fear of failure.

 

You can do this dance for years. I know people that have.

 

Yes, that's true. I just can't forget my past failures, and I always choose to give in to the pain those memories bring me. "Failure" itself doesn't scare me, rather, I know how hard I take failures, especially ones I have a strong emotional attachment to (i.e. people); I fear that pain that I feel from it. I know you're supposed to get up and dust yourself off when you fail, but for me, I feel like I just sink lower and lower each time. I don't want to keep sinking lower, but the way I see it, it's much more likely I'll see more failure than success in the future, so I choose to shelter myself from it, because I'm afraid I will hit a breaking point that leads to me doing something I can't come back from.

 

I have a friend called Paul who suffered severe and spiteful bullying during his university days. He remained angry and alone and devoid of healthy relationships until he was 45. At which point the penny finally dropped. He realised on his current track he was never going to get married or have the children that he wanted.

 

To an extent, I feel like I've already hit that point. Silly as it may sound to the average person, I really truly honestly believe the last girl I liked was supposed to be the girl I ended up with. And I blew it. I couldn't make it happen. I can't see myself meeting anyone like her ever again, I can't see myself ever feeling the way I feel about her for someone else. In my mind, any chance I had for a fulfilling love life died with her rejection. And now she might be about to become completely absent in my life if I can't figure out how to establish a friendship with her. Then what? I'm back to living life not knowing what it feels like to be attracted to someone, back to being left with a giant question mark. I don't want that...

 

And I get that the odds and sheer numbers make that notion seem silly to the average person, but regular odds don't really apply to me. If they did, I'd have friends by now. If they did, I'd have been on tons of dates over the last 8-ish years. If they did, I would've been in at least one or two relationships by now. But I haven't. Thus, those numbers and odds don't mean anything to me.

 

Yes, I "choose" to believe this stuff. I don't deny that, nor am I going to make excuses for it. We talked about how the way we feel about stuff doesn't often make sense, and this is simply the way I feel about my life and my romantic prospects. Thus, the action I choose is to lament. Why should I want to do anything else? According to my logic, all hope is lost for me to have a happy fulfilling love life.

[Deciduous]

Hi Matt,

 

Given what you have said above, surely it is time to give up officially and shut this thread down. I'm not trying to be hard, I'm simply stating the obvious. Continuing a journal called "Journaling my Personal growth' is pointless and misleading. You have made your choice. The decision to stop. So 'commit' to it.

 

Deci

[MattW]

Hi Matt,

 

Given what you have said above, surely it is time to give up officially and shut this thread down. I'm not trying to be hard, I'm simply stating the obvious. Continuing a journal called "Journaling my Personal growth' is pointless and misleading. You have made your choice. The decision to stop. So 'commit' to it.

 

Deci

 

That's a fair suggestion. However, I don't want to fully commit to giving up, either. I know that I've made a choice for right now, but my hope is to eventually change that. When, I don't know. How, I don't know. But I don't want to "give up". I realize that this places me in a bit of a "limbo"; I don't want to go out of my comfort zone because I don't feel like I can take any more failure, but at the same time, I don't want to "give up" and crawl down into that hole. So where does that leave me? I don't really know.

 

I hope that I can break out of that, I hope I can figure out a way to rise above the pain of further failing and find a way to make a happy life for myself. But for now, it's all one big question mark, and I don't have the answers. I don't know what it would take for me to get out of this mindset of mine. I don't know what it is that I need. I don't even really know what I "want". All I know is that I don't want to be alone.

 

Whether that means figuring out a way to have a social life in the "real world", whether that means continuing to come here and use this place as a social environment for myself, I don't know. For now, though, this journal and you guys are all I have. If I shut this thread down, then what? Then I'm just alone. And that's what I don't want.

[Deciduous]

I see.

 

So you'd like us to acccompany you on standing still.

 

You read the enotalone blurb You are not alone. Articles and threads about relationships and personal growth. - and took this mean, "have a chat and make new virtual friends, whilst permanently retreating from the real world, if it's too scary for you."

 

At the same time, mattw you started a thread entitled "Journaling my "personal growth" to give yourself and others the illusion that you were ready to tackle your despair and face your greatest fears.

 

Am I understanding correctly?

 

You set out to deceive yourself and others? The questions you've asked me and others, about the solutions we've proferred, was merely to engage us in conversation for as long as possible?

 

And this deception, you see as gaining valuable skills in creating and sustaining healthy social relationships?

 

Deci

[Rosti87]

Hi Matt,

 

Given what you have said above, surely it is time to give up officially and shut this thread down. I'm not trying to be hard, I'm simply stating the obvious. Continuing a journal called "Journaling my Personal growth' is pointless and misleading. You have made your choice. The decision to stop. So 'commit' to it.

 

Deci

 

I have to agree with this. I think it is time for a bit of 'tough love.' Please stop seeking attention through negative behaviour. You are short changing yourself. I don't want to participate in your 'treading water.' You may continue to have a few stragglers here that will feed your behaviour but over time if you do nothing to work on your issues, they will give up as well. Either get to work on your issues or stop this misleading thread.

[bulletproof]

 

 

 

And I get that the odds and sheer numbers make that notion seem silly to the average person, but regular odds don't really apply to me. If they did, I'd have friends by now. If they did, I'd have been on tons of dates over the last 8-ish years. If they did, I would've been in at least one or two relationships by now. But I haven't. Thus, those numbers and odds don't mean anything to me.

 

This is not logic. First of all, you are not the highly individual and unusual person that you believe you are. Regular odds do in fact apply to you. Your "proof" that the odds don't apply to you isn't proof at all. The reason you haven't had friends or dates or relationships is because you choose to isolate yourself and you don't address any of your socializing issues, and you've allowed it to go on for so long that it's become your reality. The odds are not against you- that's just another way of placing the blame somewhere else.

[MattW]

I intend to follow through on my promise that I'll never start another thread here on ENA. So if I shut down this thread, that essentially means I leave here and don't come back. I don't want to leave, I really don't. But if that's what you guys really think is best, I suppose I should take it into consideration.

[Rosti87]

I intend to follow through on my promise that I'll never start another thread here on ENA. So if I shut down this thread, that essentially means I leave here and don't come back. I don't want to leave, I really don't. But if that's what you guys really think is best, I suppose I should take it into consideration.

 

Again playing the victim. NO ONE here told you to leave. We question the intent of your thread. It is called 'personal growth' and you are NOT putting any effort into that growth. Just retreading the same victim minded positions and deferring responsibility elsewhere and doing nothing about making the change. This is merely tough love Matt. Start making firms steps toward change.

[Batya33]

I intend to follow through on my promise that I'll never start another thread here on ENA. So if I shut down this thread, that essentially means I leave here and don't come back. I don't want to leave, I really don't. But if that's what you guys really think is best, I suppose I should take it into consideration.

 

I think it's best for you to avoid using a message board as a further excuse for inaction. There are many ways to use this message board productively towards your stated goal of personal growth. No one is suggesting you stop posting. Many are suggesting you stop posting excuses, etc.

[bulletproof]

Agree with those saying that nobody is saying not to post here. Everyone should feel free to post. But understand that people are going to post here and call you out on the behavior that's keeping you in the same position. Whether you post or not is your own decision. You could probably find another message board where people are not hip to your situation and you can start from the beginning, but it will probably hurt you more than help you.