Is it possible for people NOT to be turned off by too much contact/interest?

[Batya33]

I'm NOT a supermodel, far from it. I'm barely 5'2. haha. I also didn't mean I can't say "no" to guys in a relationship. I did that for 2 years while with T. I meant when I'm single.

 

I'm confused as to what I'm supposed to be doing? I'm just trying to figure it out but it seems like I'm doing all wrong?

 

As to my friends? Come on Batya I'm SURE some of them are settling. As I'm sure some of them are in love and sure about. But are you saying everyone gets married to men they are excited and sure about? I know 2 of my very close friends who were FAR from sure.

 

I don't think they are all settling. I mean excited and sure meaning reasonably so, at least. And no, not necessarily over the moon - but I say "excited and sure" because many years ago a friend of mine said that that's how she would want to feel and out of all the input I've received over the years about making a marital commitment that one resonated with me the most (ironically, despite being a wonderful person inside and out -so pretty, intelligent, interesting, she is single at age 47).

 

What I would do if I were you is date whoever you're interested in and most of all remain honest with yourself about why you make the choices you make and the intentions of those choices. I think you have a hard time being honest with yourself and not indulging in overanalysis when the truth is far simpler (despite being harder to handle at times).

[justagirl2]

How am I not being honest with myself this time around? What is the truth that I'm not accepting/seeing?

[Batya33]

How am I not being honest with myself this time around? What is the truth that I'm not accepting/seeing?

 

I don't think you're being honest with yourself when make excuses for why you choose to hook up with men, or when you make excuses for Z's behavior towards you, or when you go down the path of trying to talk yourself into being with T now or in the future.

[justagirl2]

I don't think you're being honest with yourself when make excuses for why you choose to hook up with men, or when you make excuses for Z's behavior towards you, or when you go down the path of trying to talk yourself into being with T now or in the future.

 

I genuinely don't know the answer to any of those 3 questions. Why do you think I choose to hook up with men? How can I be sure that I won't/or will workout with T in the future?

 

The reasons I went on dates/hooked up with guys were because I wanted to, because I don't know, wanted to give a shot to see how I would feel, and just wanted to do it. No deep thoughts about it you know?

 

The T thing is a head vs. heart matter. Rationally, it feels like he's the right guy for me but in my heart/gut it doesn't feel right at this moment.

 

The Z part I agree. It's clear that his focus now is NOT a relationship so I do have to stop making excuses for him. Not even for him. Excuses for me to believe we have a chance of a long-term relationship when it's clear that he doesn't want that right now or in the near future.

 

In the end of the day I think it boils down to I should be alone for a little while so I can be ready for my next long-term relationship, but I am VERY scared of being alone. I think a lot of women feel scared to be alone.

[Batya33]

I understand that you're scared. When I talk about self-honesty I mean, avoid rationalizing that you hook up with men because you get hit on a lot, or that you hooked up with the guy in Miami to test how sex would be with someone else (meaning, you hooked up with him because you felt like it, end of story, right?). Of course you can't be sure what will happen with T.

 

I think admitting that you're very scared of being alone is very self-honest - that's a great example of you being honest with yourself and it's also a great example because it will help you the next time you make a choice that has to do with dating someone or hooking up with someone- you can evaluate whether you're motivated out of fear of being alone (and if the answer is yes then maybe you'll choose not to have casual sex or hook up because of that self-honesty).

 

I don't think you need to be alone to be ready for a long term relationship. I do think you need to continue to be honest with yourself, figure out what you really are looking for in a long term partner (i.e. so your head and heart won't be in conflict), and decide whether you can be happy without the type of excitement that comes from the drama and challenge of unavailable men. None of that requires you to stop looking for a long term relationship. It might require you to abstain from dating, hooking up with or spending hours texting unavailable men.

[justagirl2]

Z is visiting me tonight. It will be 100% friends only. Z is very shy I doubt he'll kiss me or be romantic towards me on a mundane post work Tuesday. So yeah, I won't be able to gauge if he changed his mind about relationships. Annoying.

[Deciduous]

Z is visiting me tonight. It will be 100% friends only. Z is very shy I doubt he'll kiss me or be romantic towards me on a mundane post work Tuesday. So yeah, I won't be able to gauge if he changed his mind about relationships. Annoying.

 

Are you suggesting he may have changed his mind about relationships (after five years) and declined/forgottten to tell you - there-by forcing you to guess. Justagirl,is this a realistic scenario???? Honestly and truthfully, would it have slipped his mind to tell you?

 

Deci

[justagirl2]

I haven't seen him in person since last month so would he text me that? I don't think it changed though. It will take more than a month.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm surprised this thread is still going. While I would love to catch up on the past 56 pages, can someone give the cliffs notes version of what's happening?

[justagirl2]

I guess a lot has happened but nothing really?

 

Anyways, Z is coming soon. I'm so exhausted almost not in the mood to see him. I'm so tired. Also, just hearing you guys reassuring the notion that this guy doesn't want a relationship is like… damn, what am I doing?

 

I also get stressed thinking what if he doesn't want to come and is just coming to be nice? I don't want anybody to feel pressured to hangout with me.

 

The conversation went like this:

 

He talked about the days he could hangout.

 

I said I was going to have dinner with my dad yesterday, but that he could come over after work today to say bye.

 

He said: will do, asked when I was leaving, etc…

 

Then we were just having small talk and he said that it sucks that he hasn't been able to pack at all because of the presentation and he leaves (back to the US for good) on Satuday.

 

So I get paranoid and think he means it's going to be a hassle to come over tonight. So I say, don't feel pressured to come if it's going to disrupt your packing.

 

He says: "It certainly won't! Besides, I have until Saturday so I'm not totally screwed yet".

 

I mean, I gave him an out and he didn't take it. I'm assuming he wants to come over then? But then what if he just wants to come over because he feels bad about saturday? I psyche myself out.

 

I don't know, I guess I'm very tired of always having to guess what his feelings are about all this. It's like, am I forcing something? It feels like I am… I'm so tired of him being passive.

 

Well 2014, no more Z.

[Batya33]

There's no need to be able to "gauge" whether someone wants a relationship with you. When a man does, you will know, and especially in this case.

[justagirl2]

It's not about wanting a relationship RIGHT NOW or not. For me it's more of a question of does he sees us in a relationship in the FUTURE? I don't want to be in a relationship with him RIGHT NOW either. For me, the ideal scenario would be for us to make plans to keep hanging out and see where it leads us… you know? But only if he SEES a future, like I do.

 

The visit was amazing as usual. We had an awesome time together. It's midnight where we live now and he just left. He got here at 10:50pm right after working and after a 72 hours grind the past weekend. His eyes were so… I felt so bad for him he looked exhausted. I know how much of an effort it was for him to come over hangout you know? I kept saying he looked exhausted and he should go to bed, I felt really bad he look exhausted, and he kept saying he didn't care that he wanted to spend some time with me. He was really cute. We talked about everything, his new job, his move back home to NY. He seems very happy but looked exhausted. I mean, that's the thing. I would not have made that effort to see someone I didn't care about. I don't think he would either. Why would he?

 

We didn't make out, I knew we wouldn't, I mean we were just chatting and both very tired. I know Z very well to the point I know he needs a little bit of liquor to get romantic with a girl. The thing is, after that casual sex debacle this felt so nice. So nice to just talk to a guy you know? I have this relationship with Z that I don't have with any other guy. We genuinely like talking to each other. It's not just about kissing/sex. In the end he was hugging me and clinging on to me and asking when he'll see me next. I mean, I don't know Z. So he just texted me saying: "I can't wait to see you again soon".

 

I mean, I CANNOT and WON'T stop my life for Z. But I kind of always knew this was a long-term thing and I had to have patience. I am going to live my life and at the same time keep this going to see where it goes. Specially now that we'll be so close finally. We were planning a million of trips.

[justagirl2]

Ugh I'm back to square 1. Obsessed w/ Z. He's soooooo smart. Most knowledgable guy I know.

[justagirl2]

Double post

[Batya33]

I'm not surprised. You enjoy hanging out with him and it's stress-free in the sense that he is not asking you out on dates much less asking you be in a relationship with him. So you get to pine away for him while he is just out of your reach -and that situation is very tantalizing for you. I don't think he is doing anything wrong -I think it's nice that he came over to hang out and very gentlemanly of him not to make a move on you. But you do have your answer -he does not want to be in a relationship with you. That should let you move on comfortably. Yes that might change in the future because anything can happen but don't live your life with any focus on that remote possibility.

[lady00]

My New Year resolution for you is that you find a guy to date who has the same goal of eventually being in a long term serious relationship and who wants to date you to see if that can happen. I am not sure what you mean by saying you don't want a relationship now. Isn't everyone like that? Does anyone want to jump into a serious relationship without dating first to see where if there is compatibility first?

[Justnotsure]

I think this just needs to run its course. Many of us have been "in love" with an unavailable man. It usually ends in a predictable way (as you know from previous situations), but sometimes you have to let it all play out. Of course, there is always the chance that it could be an exception, but it's certainly not prudent to bank on exceptions (the irony being that wanting to BE the exception is a big part of what is so enticing about these guys!) So just do it with your eyes open. No pointing fingers about time wasted/being led on if it doesn't work out. Own the choice to invest in this.

[Justnotsure]

And I'm not saying the above to be flip or harsh. I was in a relationship with an unavailable man -- and from the moment he told me "this won't go past a certain point" - I reminded myself that EVERY DAY that I stayed was my choice, even if part of it was based on my hope that given time, he'd change his mind. When 2 years later, he hadn't changed his mind and we broke up, that ownership of my part in it was very liberating. My friends tried to convince me he was a jerk and I should hate him for sending mixed signals, etc. But I *knew* what he'd told me, and though I hadn't quite believed him/thought I'd try to change it, that wasn't his fault. I moved on much quicker with that knowledge and it was a BIG part of preparing me for a real relationship with someone who I knew was on the same page and didn't need to be convinced.

[Justnotsure]

One more thing! Watch your lens again. Now that hook ups were "debacles"? I thought they were you being young and carefree and you had no regrets? And it's pretty tough to compare a guy who you've known as a friend for several years with someone you met in a bar on vacation. Of course you have more of a connection -- you've cultivated one. Not trying to diminish your feelings/interactions with Z, but really pay attention to how you re-frame things for yourself to create the story that you want.

[Batya33]

Justnotsure -hats off to you -where do you get that wisdom and insight from? I was in a similar situation with an unavailable man but not for as long and you are right I got over it faster because I knew what I was getting into. OP -please read and re-read her words.

[justagirl2]

The last thing that I regret this year were those two one night stands. I have zero regrets. I don't even know what a debacle mean, haha, all I meant is that it's a lot more fulfilling to spend time with somebody you really care about than have casual sex. I always knew that. Again, zero regrets to what happened but I don't plan on repeating that again in 2014.

 

As for Z, that's the thing, we don't have any relationship. He's not a jerk because he literally never promised me anything. I am in this willingly and if I told Z I wanted to distance myself from him he would 100% stop talking to me. Look at the thread title - I built "us". It just seems like slowly he grew attached to me and actually really enjoy my company and our friendship.

 

Honestly, next year is going to be very telling. He's back in his city. There are strong chances that I won't even hear from him now that he's not the lonely foreigner anymore. Like he told me yesterday, he's going to be working on Park, the avenue he grew up. All of his friends, family, everything. I won't be surprised if we just lose touch because he is back living his UES life. But then again, if that's the case, he's not who I thought he was and will be easy to cut the loss.

[justagirl2]

Not only that, but I'm not wasting more than 1 more month with this Z thing. I want to be in a place where I can start a commited and serious relationship and wasting time with some unavailable kid is not the way to do it.

 

He basically has until Jan 31rst to either come visit me or plan a weekend trip together. I'm not waiting longer than 1 month.

[Batya33]

Not only that, but I'm not wasting more than 1 more month with this Z thing. I want to be in a place where I can start a commited and serious relationship and wasting time with some unavailable kid is not the way to do it.

 

He basically has until Jan 31rst to either come visit me or plan a weekend trip together. I'm not waiting longer than 1 month.

 

I think one month is far too long and your standard doesn't make a lot of sense. Big deal if he plans a trip with you or comes to visit you -that doesn't tell you anything relevant about his wanting a relationship with you given your past interactions. Do not wait even 60 seconds and I don't mean to be dramatic. There's nothing to wait for. He's living his life -you live yours, with nothing on hold not even an iota of a "waiting" mindset. You're just making excuses to avoid being in the place you claim to want to be in.

 

I don't think he's a jerk in the least. If you ask him if he wants to be in an committed relationship with you and he says no but continues to be flirtatious, invite you to hang out then that would be jerky. But he hasn't. This has nothing to do with geography at this point -if he's coming to the U.S. soon for work and he wanted to be with you he would never risk you being snapped up by someone else. And you don't even need to go there - he's a go-getter. He is not trying to get you. Whether he does in the future is anyone's guess. And "anyone's guess" is never a reason to "wait" even a little bit.

[Justnotsure]

Justnotsure -hats off to you -where do you get that wisdom and insight from? I was in a similar situation with an unavailable man but not for as long and you are right I got over it faster because I knew what I was getting into. OP -please read and re-read her words.

 

Thanks, Batya! Though I think someone with wisdom and insight probably would have gotten out before the 2 year mark!

 

Justa -- re: the one month plan - I think it's flawed for the reasons that Batya mentioned, and also because you're looking at it the wrong way. It's like when he came to visit and you say "well, if he didn't care, he wouldn't stop by and see me" and then sometimes you think to yourself, "he doesn't care at all - he was just lonely and leaning on me." I don't think there is ANY doubt that he cares about you. I don't think you need more evidence. He obviously likes you and enjoys spending time with you. It's that, currently, you seem to want different things out of your interaction with each other. He's fine where it stands. You want more. And unless and until he tells you he's on the same page, he can travel around the world with you, and you will still be in the same position.

[justagirl2]

The problem is - yes, he's a go getter, but he's not like that with woman AT ALL. I highly doubt he'll ever go after a woman. He's just SO awkward/shy/passive around woman, it's weird. He hasn't dated anyone in 5 years. So it's not like he's not being a go getter with me - he's not being a go getter with ANY woman.

 

I highly doubt he will be dating someone else anytime soon. This wasn't like it was with J - the other unavailable guy - where he would date a ton of girls. Z literally does NOT date.

 

I REALLY believe the woman that he's going to end up with will really have to be patient and slowly win him over. I really do believe that.

 

This is where my conflict lies. Do I just let go? If I do, he won't come after me at all. It will be over.

 

However, if I keep slowly becoming a bigger and bigger part of his life, I feel like there's a chance.

 

This is the conflict. It's almost like I have control of the situation in a strange way.

 

So you girls say just let go, right? And lose him forever. If I let go of him it's going to be over.

 

At the same time, I know there's no guarantees here. It's just hard to gauge the situation when you girls don't really know him. He's not a typical push/pull unavailable guy.

 

I do understand it can end up being a waste of time.

 

Also, it's weird but we are so close yet we are yet not intimate at all - so I can't imagine being in a relationship with him before we get more intimate. I honestly don't know him as a man enough to be in a relationship with him. That's why I don't mind the hanging out/meeting up more before being in a committed relationship.

 

My problem is much less the fact he's not ready for a relationship and much more the fact that he's so closed off. If we start spending more time together, I think things can evolve. But, seeing each other once every 1-2 months is not enough. Specially with such a closed off person. That's why I don't understand why you guys think it's such a big deal he doesn't feel ready for a relationship. I don't either. I don't know him well enough on a romantic sense to be sure if we are going to workout. My problem with him is before any of that. It's the fact I don't know when I'll see him again or if he genuinely wants to spend time with me. It's actually a step before where you girls are.