Is it possible for people NOT to be turned off by too much contact/interest?

Batya33 · January 29, 2014

I know people will write "oh don't worry, age is only a number" but let's get real. If you were turning 37, still wanted to try for a biological child, and had no one in sight, yes I'd agree with you that that was a worrisome situation. And that's so "wrong" of me to say - but it's realistic. It's how I felt. And the 10 years go faster than you think especially since you'll be new in your career for a good part of that. One thing I would do is stop all social drinking because when you choose to drink you tend to choose to make those dishonest (to yourself) choices about hooking up with guys who don't have relationship potential. Find non-alcoholic drinks that look like drinks and ignore people who say silly things. At some point perhaps you'll be much better at knowing your limit but you have too many stories of choosing to drink and then choosing to make choices inconsistent with your long term goal. I wrote a lot just about drinking but it seems to be a pattern with you.

I'd also stop with the "I'm only 27" excuse for those types of decisions. Who cares. You want a marriage and family, so act like it.

justagirl2 · January 29, 2014

I do not think 27 is old - I think 27 is old to be pining over unavailable dudes.

Batya33 · January 29, 2014

I do not think 27 is old - I think 27 is old to be pining over unavailable dudes.

I understand exactly what you meant and I agree for the most part -the sooner you can change that habit the better.

justagirl2 · January 30, 2014

Some news: I'm really making a conscious effort to move on. Tonight I actually dressed up for my night class as I know there's a very cute guy there. He sat next by me tonight and is such a good kid. The problem is... he's too sweet and a first year. I feel like I definitely intimated him and came up as the high maintenance international girl when he's just a sweet midwestern boy. How do you deal with these situations? Where someone is clearly intimidated by you? I keep being attracted to these guys like Z and now this kid who are a little immature/shy/boyish. I am an Aries woman. Strong, outgoing, outspoken. But, I want them to come to be. How though? Do I add the guy on Facebook? Do I ask for his number? I mean what do you do in these situations? We have TNDC tomorrow where everyone goes out to the same club and he said he will go so let's see if anything happens.

I spoke to T today. He got invited to interview at Harvard and Wharton, as expected. So chances are getting bigger now that we might be very close starting this fall. NY-Philly or NY-Boston. It will be nice to have him around and who knows maybe we'll reconnect and see what happens... or maybe we'll just be really great friends. I'm very happy for him but I know he still has to go through the interviewing process. It's about a 50% chance from now. He hears from Stanford next week, which is his first choice.

Plus: Batya and Soph were right about this Dukan Diet. It seems like a healthy diet but it's looking more and more like a crash diet. I'm having menstrual cramps and spotting on the middle of my cycle. I've been taking the pill every day as usual and this has never happened. It must be because of the weight loss. Also, I need to get blood drawn because losing 10% of my body fat probably messed with my thyroid as well. Do you think I can do this in Walgreens Walk In Clinic or should I go to a proper doctor? Endocrinologist or Gyno? I think endo since I have thyroid issues and he can probably talk about the period as well. Any advice? I wanted to lose weight but I want to be healthy. I'm 103 pounds, 5'1. I have nothing less to lose. I am going to start eating carbs again slowly and exercise. I'm very happy with how disciplined I was with this but I want to be healthy, before anything else.

Batya33 · January 30, 2014

I would stop with the astrology stuff because it allows you to externalize what you should be taking responsibility for -your choices and behavior -nothing to do with your sign, just what you choose to do or not do. If he seems intimidated by you then back off and let him talk to you now that he knows you'll likely respond. And I wouldn't stereotype him -you have no idea who he really is or what he's really like. He's not a kid or a sweet boy. He's an adult man.

missmarple · January 30, 2014

I feel like I definitely intimated him and came up as the high maintenance international girl when he's just a sweet midwestern boy. How do you deal with these situations? Where someone is clearly intimidated by you? I keep being attracted to these guys like Z and now this kid who are a little immature/shy/boyish. I am an Aries woman. Strong, outgoing, outspoken. But, I want them to come to be. How though? Do I add the guy on Facebook? Do I ask for his number? I mean what do you do in these situations? We have TNDC tomorrow where everyone goes out to the same club and he said he will go so let's see if anything happens.

Well, when you have to deal with someone who seems intimidated by you (and Aries women have a tendency of doing that to men..one of my closest friends is an Aries and she always complains about the same thing), what you should do is focus on the things you have in common with him, not your differences. If he's shy, it's ok if you take the first steps..I wouldn't go as far as fb or his number yet but tomorrow you can start a conversation with him..you're in the same class so, you have something to talk about. Also, from my experience with shy guys (I've given up on them but they always seem to be drawn to me, unfortunately), it's better to take it slow or they may run for the hills..lol

Batya33 · January 30, 2014

Well, when you have to deal with someone who seems intimidated by you (and Aries women have a tendency of doing that to men..one of my closest friends is an Aries and she always complains about the same thing), what you should do is focus on the things you have in common with him, not your differences. If he's shy, it's ok if you take the first steps..I wouldn't go as far as fb or his number yet but tomorrow you can start a conversation with him..you're in the same class so, you have something to talk about. Also, from my experience with shy guys (I've given up on them but they always seem to be drawn to me, unfortunately), it's better to take it slow or they may run for the hills..lol

I wouldn't assume he was shy -he just might have felt overwhelmed by the OP. I agree with your approach otherwise. I'm not an Aries and knew I might intimidate certain types of people because of my personality and if I had my "career hat" on, etc so I just did more listening than talking and worked on being in tune with the other person's energy/vibes rather than my need to talk or share with the other person.

Deciduous · January 30, 2014

Some news: I'm really making a conscious effort to move on. Tonight I actually dressed up for my night class as I know there's a very cute guy there. He sat next by me tonight and is such a good kid. .

Hi Justa,

And yet this isn't moving on. This is avoiding pain. Justa, my darling, you are in no position to offer some-one a full and healthy relationship. This precisely the route you took in November.

"If it hurts too bad, then let's storm into the next situation, without a breath. Let's not have time to think or heal or look at old patterns. Let's move, move, move. Let's not think, think, think. Thinking hurts. Let me rush onto to the next situation."

Justa, IS IS TIME TO STOP. You've tried this route, in November.

If you want a healthy relationship in the future, then it is time to take a pause and a time out. You'v got stuff to heal and reconcile. What happens if you are alone right now? What are you running from?

Feeling these different painful emotions is actually how we release an attachment and get to a healthy place. This pain is temporary. To heal your pain connected to Z, you first need to face and feel the painful emotions that come up.

This healing process occurs automatically as long as you allow it. Yet you are looking to this new guy to save you from the pain that you are in. He cannot do that. He is not the solution. If anything it seems that he is adding to those feelings of rejection, that remain unhealed.

I think that there has been a lot of avoidance, particularly the last time you experienced rejection in November. You ran away from those feelings and they never got healed. You ran to bed with other men, you were all over the place. This time, stand and face those feelings.

Long before the heart is ready to let go, the mind wants to move on. This speedy thinking is fine for the mind, but it is not the way the heart heals.

It seems practically wise to blank this experience from your mind. It is not. There is a lot to learn about yourself from this experience. And what you learn and take away from it will stop you from repeating the same dynamics with another person.

So now is the time to explore what happened here with Z, and genuinely own your emotions, no matter how negative they seem to you right now – they are trying to teach you something.

Without the knowledge and insight into how to process and move beyond our negative feelings, our emotions can become unbearable. To find relief we seek to escape our feelings of loss. By moving out of our feelings too soon, we unknowingly sabotage the healing process. We make decisions and plans that bring short-term relief but are counterproductive in the long run. This tendency to avoid and to resist painful feelings is the very thing that can cause various degrees of depression or numbness.

On 19 November 2013, I wrote this. Don't you feel that this is what is happening here - with the new chap?

So I will ask again....What happens if you are alone for now? What happens? What is it you will feel, that you don't want to face.

Hi Justa,

What you are struggling with is...acceptance. You are in a great deal of pain, and desperately want to jump out of it.

You have twisted this way and that. Eventually you will need to accept that you are very, very hurt over Z. You are running from a terrible sense of rejection and that needs to be confronted and grieved in an honest way.

It is okay to feel your love for Z. It is okay to feel your pain and disappointment and sadness. You keep trying to run away from this. Instead of mourning his decision, you have tried to suppress this loss.

It is time to recognise that you were deeply invested with Z, at an emotional level. Something you cared about has been lost. You block yourself from recognising this fact and truly morning the loss, because you fear your sorrow will overwhelm you.

But you can face it - and by going through this honestly and facing the depth of your feelings - you will eventually emerge out the other side. At the moment, instead of going through it, I think you are trying to go around it, leap over it, dig under it.......

All the best

Deci

Batya33 · January 30, 2014

In my opinion she should get out there and meet people and take heed of the warning signs of unavailability which she now knows well. With her lifestyle she's not going to be willing to live like a hermit (which is what that would feel like to her) and I think she can do all the work you suggested while still being out there and meeting people. I'd definitely avoid alcohol and casual hook ups but socializing, going on dates with single, available men -all good, IMO.

justagirl2 · January 30, 2014

I'm avoiding alcohol for sure. I've always kind of avoided alcohol. That day with Z I had 1 and 1/2 glass of wine. I wasn't drunk, just a little buzzed because of my diet. But yes, I plan on avoiding alcohol altogether because of my diet and just I don't feel the need to drink, never have.

However, I don't think the alcohol was to blame for the casual hook-ups. I know it wasn't. It was a conscious decision I made last year and don't regret it: simply don't want to repeat it.

Deci - I think you guys aren't giving much credit to my break-up with T back in November. It might seem like my 2-year relationship didn't mean much to me because of how I wrote about Z, but it did mean a lot to mean and it was VERY tough to let that go 100%. It was tough having that final talk with T and losing my emotional crutch. I honestly think at that moment - that was harder than the rejection from Z. To be honest I was still very hopeful about Z back then - specially with the prospects of him moving back to the US.

I understand I might be childish to avoid "pain" but I'm honestly just trying to be practical about the situation. Z was never my boyfriend. Heck, it seems like he wasn't even a real friend. I tried everything I could and honestly don't see a point in pining over someone who never gave me anything. Like I said, I really prefer to choose to live and not to suffer - that's my mantra. It is probably what caused me panic attacks though: when I was a kid I never cried or suffered over my mom's issues and I ended up having an anxiety breakdown later on for holding on so much. But, it's how I deal with life. I wake-up, get up, new day. New opportunities. New people to meet.

I don't think I can jump into a serious relationship right now - it's going to take me a while to fall for someone again. Heck, I've only had 2 boyfriends in my life. I'm not the type of girl to date someone seriously if I'm not in love. So I honestly don't see a point on staying in and closing myself off.

As for my classmate, I just don't have much faith in it. I mean, you guys say I'm judging but I have a really good first impression of people. I'm also kind of over shy guys after the saga with Z. And my classmate may not be shy, but he's not a man's man who is confident and aggressive. I actually REALLY miss the guys in my home country. Latin man are aggressive and assertive and I feel like there I can be much more of a "calm" girl myself because the man actually do their jobs. The guys who live in the US and American guys are just so... passive. I'm a little over that and I don't feel like this new guy is going to be more assertive. He actually added me on Facebook though, which was nice.

I then sent him a message last night after the add: "TNDC tomorrow? I've heard some people will go, some won't... what else there is to do, right? haha"

Him: "Hey, I'll be there, hope to run into you there!"

I mean, yes, hope to run into me. But what are you going to do? I just can tell if he sees me it's going to be a little awkward and he's going to have zero attitude and I'm just over making the moves like I did with Z. So not that excited. To make matters worse, my girl friends all have other plans tonight so I need to find someone to come with me or I won't be able to go.

sophie274 · January 31, 2014

You can't to by yourself to the event? I don't know what it is of course.

As much as I hate to generalize, I do think what you're saying about the Latin guys is true based on my experience as well. They are very assertive and also persistent. I also find them much more physically affectionate in general and they're very sweet talkers. That being said, if we're going all the way with the stereotypes, lol, then A LOT of them are serious players as well. So I'm not sure we're better off, ha ha!

There are lots of confident assertive men in the US, M! Honestly, you seem to meet so many attractive guys that you at least somewhat hit it off with. I really don't think you're going to have trouble finding someone to date (and not just someone, someone you really like).

justagirl2 · January 31, 2014

Batya underestimates my ability to have a very strong intuitive sense. I saw the classmate,he came over all shy said hi, great to see you and then ignored me the rest of the night.

Anyways, I had a fun time with my friends. Honestly, I know that in the environment I am right now, the way I look or dress maybe intimidating, but I want somebody who is not scared of me just because I look a little better than our average classmates. After this Z debacle, I want a man with balls.

Batya33 · January 31, 2014

Batya underestimates my ability to have a very strong intuitive sense. I saw the classmate,he came over all shy said hi, great to see you and then ignored me the rest of the night.

Anyways, I had a fun time with my friends. Honestly, I know that in the environment I am right now, the way I look or dress maybe intimidating, but I want somebody who is not scared of me just because I look a little better than our average classmates. After this Z debacle, I want a man with balls.

I don't think so. A big part of this thread is that you did not "read" Z properly (which is fine - I'm not criticizing- just pointing out that I think doing the quick read/stereotyping is a mistake)- big deal that the guy avoided you - could be many reasons for that. You might be a good read on people I just think that you indulge in stereotyping of various kinds (including based on astrology) as a substitute for getting to know someone, especially when you put the person on a pedestal (remember J?).

I'm glad you had fun last night and I agree that someone who is intimidated by you is probably not a good match. I don't think that the intimidation is because of your looks. I think that it's just a natural way some people are or are not.

justagirl2 · January 31, 2014

Even if Z is head over heels in love with a girl, he is still shy and passive. His brother, sister, friends - I've heard that from everyone. Z is shy with woman. Yes, I misread that he wasn't into me, but it does not change the fact that he's shy.

I guess in the end of the day though, I am attracted to those types of guys.

For example, there is another guy in my class. He's ZERO passive and shy. However, I'm not into him even though he's very very attractive. He had always been attracted to me and yesterday we talked and I told him I was single now. He was opening his own business so had been MIA last semester.

So today at 9am he texts me: "M! I meant what I said last night. Let me take you to dinner! I missed seeing you".

Thing is... I'm not into him. Why? Because he is aggressive? Isn't that what I want? He's SO good lucking and obviously very very smart and ambitious.

But, he's smooth and aggressive with woman, I guess that doesn't attract me but isn't that what I want? He's a total MAN with capital M but I tend to be attracted to these boyish guys? What is wrong with me?

I'm not sure if that is the problem or the fact that he was a ranger and is literally a wounded veteran... He was wounded in Iraq and deployed to both Iraq and Afghanistan. With my history with my mom, I really don't want to deal with man with issues and I just find it hard that this ex soldier - a ranger doesn't have serious issues from war.

Batya33 · January 31, 2014

I think the problem is that you generalize so much when it comes to defining what makes someone "manly" in your eyes and you stereotype so much that of course your snap impressions are going to bear out to some extent -because they're so broad/stereotyped/cliche to begin with. And it's to your detriment -it narrows your dating pool unnecessarily as you write people off based on these stereotyped assumptions and then you make broad assumptions about how these people -some near strangers -see you - assuming for example that they are intimidated by your looks because according to you you are more attractive than your classmates.

I think you're ignoring that people have individual tastes when it comes to attraction, chemistry and looks, and individual emphases on how much looks matter, etc. I also think you dwell too much on comparing yourself favorably and unfavorably to others -another impediment to your finding a healthy relationship.

Why not just go with the flow -if you feel a spark or a connection with someone, and he is single and available, go for it, stop questioning so much about whether he is "boyish", "manly" or something in between. If this guy who asked you out doesn't appeal to you, that's cool - he'll find someone who finds him attractive, no big deal.

justagirl2 · January 31, 2014

This guy that asked me out, we spent 2 weeks together in Fiji for a bschool trip last year. We actually know each other very well as we spent 14 days together camping, kayaking, spending nights talking and days on a bus. I was serious with my boyfriend back then so didn't really think much of it but this is someone I actually know and am not judging based on assumptions. I also know Z really well and know what he is like. He even told me last time we hangout that nobody knew him better than I did - not even his mom.

This other kid from my class, maybe I'm judging but I don't understand how you can't tell if someone is shy or not - it's easy to tell. It's also easy to tell when someone adds you on Facebook and says: "I can't wait to see you on the party" but says hi to you in an awkward way and can't really hold a conversation.

Anyways, I'm probably going out with my friend D, the ex soldier. We were actually really good friends last year and distanced ourselves because he was always a little too flirty and at that time I didn't feel comfortable around him. He's a really, really interesting guy and I can't see harm in dinner. I like how he isn't intimated by me at all either.

Batya33 · January 31, 2014

I think that often what people mistake for "shy" could be temporary discomfort, being in a quiet mood, being uninterested in the people around him or her, many reasons. Sure there are extremes -I'm just suggesting that you cut wayyyy down on the labeling/generalizing/stereotyping/astrologizing and do the harder work of treating people as individuals. I promise it's far more rewarding than thinking you are "right" about snap judgments (and yes it's fun to be right about snap judgments -far more fun IMO to withhold those types of broad judgments and get to know the individual).

The guy from your class might have had an awkward moment, or perhaps since he senses you are into him he didn't want to lead you on and ended up being awkward. Who knows. (and no big deal either way).

As far as the guy who you describe as "manly" I'd just rethink whether you really want to hang on to those tired old stereotypes of what is "manly" or use your obvious smarts and again, do the harder and more insightful and perceptive work of challenging those stereotypes and getting to know people as individuals. Don't you want that kind of treatment from others?

Have fun at dinner!

justagirl2 · February 3, 2014

I haven't been doing too well. I feel like that moment of weakness where I talked to Z realllllly brought me down. I just feel so stupid for everything, and like he is honestly not even 1% worried about any of this. It's more than Z though. I just feel like before business school I had a job, I had great boyfriend, I had my confident/self worth intact. Now almost in the end of school, I am unemployed, single and just generally lost. What is wrong with this scenario? This was "my dream". I worked so hard to be here, living abroad in one of the best schools in the world. I guess it all comes down to high expectations. I thought everyone in a top business school would be so interesting, it would get me the best job, I would feel confident. Well, what? Business school is just not all that everybody talks about. People are A LOT less interesting than I expected, you get a LOT of "no's" and it's just a big bruise to my ego. I've always been the best in my job, in high school, in college. Easy #1. Now I am in the bottom of the pack. I'm probably legit in the bottom 20% of my class. And then I look around and I don't even think these people are that great. They are not that impressive. But, they obviously are. They are obviously super smart and accomplished but I guess I always expect more and am disappointed. It's just a really weird feeling. I guess it's my upbringing of always being among the most privileged, the people with the top jobs that make it feel like nobody is good enough.

In the end I did not go to the dinner. Honestly, I'm not interested in this guy so I didn't think it was smart to go when I know I'm not into it. I kind of don't want to do what Z did to me I guess.

I spent time with my classmate last night again. The no dating bschool guy. We always end up spending time together, specially on the weekends. It's a really weird friendship. There's nothing conventional about it. We just normally talk for hours, sleepover, cuddle, but no sex. He's really, really hot. But, there's just something weird about us that is not sexual at all. I am 110% my crazy self with him. It's funny but when I'm lonely I literally text him 100x times, call him and am super annoying. But I just know he's not judging me for it. It was funny, on Thursday I was super down so called him and he didn't pick up. So my guy friend called him and left a voicemail and I was like, ok, this guy will think I'm insane. Yesterday he told me the voice message was the funniest thing he ever heard. He's just so... chill? It's like with Z if I send him 2 text messages I feel like he's freaking out and needing space. I always had to walk in eggshells with him. With this guy it's like, I can send him 100 texts and he just doesn't judge me at all for it. I mean, I literally bombard him when I'm bored/lonely. It's of course because I don't care that much. I don't care what he thinks so I just do whatever. I don't know. Yesterday it was cute. I was very down and he texted me to come hangout with him and his friends. We played beer pong and just chilled and he was very affectionate with me in front of his friends. Then he came over and spent the whole night and day together today but it was just not sexual at all. We kiss and make out a little but that's it. It's just good and comfortable. I enjoy being with him. But, this is never turning into a relationship.

Batya33 · February 3, 2014

I'm sorry you're feeling down about grad school. It's hard to take on these kinds of challenges -I still have dreams (nightmares?) about aspects of it - but I had different expectations going in -I expected to be at the bottom -but met a number of people who had your expectations. How it all worked out is for another day but was ironic.

Anyway, glad you had fun hanging out with your friend. It sounds like right now you're not interested in waiting till you meet someone with potential and this guy sounds like a safe place-filler (I know being alone when you're feeling vulnerable is not your thing). I would stop the 100 texting thing because even though he's totally cool with it you don't want him mentioning your behavior to others since you're both in the same school environment. Your classmates could end up being your co-worker or even boss someday so I would keep that in mind. (and yes he sounds nice/chill but he might mention it just in a joking way or casually).

justagirl2 · February 3, 2014

Batya - Agreed with everything you said, including the texting!

justagirl2 · February 9, 2014

Ugh, things have not been easy for me at all. I don't know... I'm just so broken. I can't even think about seriously dating again.

Things haven't been great. I've kind of been seeing my classmate and it's sooooooo bad for me. Like the worst thing ever. I feel so down about it all the time because I guess I like him? I don't know it's such a weird feeling. I want to be with him all the time but I think I'm just SO needy. And we are just not good to each other. It's just a disaster but I'm addicted to him. Like addicted. I can't go one day without seeing/talking to him. What is going on with me. Yesterday we went to a bar and ended up in a bad fight because apparently I was mean to him at the bar? I mean we don't want people at school to know about us so I was not acting all lovey dovey with him how is that being mean? So today he ignores me the WHOLE entire day. I texted him at least 20 times. Ok, I know horrible move but I'm addicted to him. It's unhealthy. So he ends up coming over with ice cream and we talk and decide we are not hanging out anymore at all. I'm just so over the way he makes me feel. Then he is like, "Let's bet, if we go 1 day without texting each other we owe each other drinks". No loser. I am not talking to you anymore. I am not going to drinks with you. I'm not seeing you again. You are not good for me. So he is just all charming and sweet and says he's jealous about Latin boy and likes me a lot and then ugh. So I ask him for a kiss... and he refuses. He's like, no we are just friends now. Ok, why did you BEG to come over then? This is like ridiculous. I don't even like him that much but I'm addicted to him. I've never felt this way. I just hate the control he has over me. I'm just sad because I'm obviously so broken over stupid Z (who I don't talk anymore) that I'm pining over some guy that I legit don't even like that much and giving him all this power.

Deciduous · February 9, 2014

Hello Justa,

Just read your last post. I'm going to say everything I said at the end of January again...

Justa, IS IS TIME TO STOP. You've tried this route, in November. And feelings of extreme neediness arose then, due to unhealed and un-examined pain. You are doing exactly what you did before and it resulted in you going back to Z.