Groom sexts on Thursday Sunday and Monday, gets married Saturday. What to do?

[pl3asehelp]

Honestly, I have a lifetime of guys wanting to see me every other day, text me in the morning, call me before bed. I love that attention. I do. They capture my time and my attention, demonstrate how much they are interested by focusing on me. The jerk about whom I started this thread was like that. My exH was like that.

 

Now, I am doing the choosing. I would rather he already have an active life, and a desire to add me to it as he gets to know me better. You dont get to have that much of my calendar (a few days a week even is more than I have anyway) until I know what you are made of. And if you are a complete stranger to me, that takes time and consistency to prove out.

 

Wow. This actually made me shudder. You are half right that you are doing the choosing. Choosing which loser to date next. Quality men don't chase women like this nor do they find this dependence on men, drama, and attention attractive.

[IAmFCA]

Wow. This actually made me shudder. You are half right that you are doing the choosing. Choosing which loser to date next. Quality men don't chase women like this nor do they find this dependence on men, drama, and attention attractive.

 

can you explain to me where the drama is in that excerpt? dependence? I do not see what you are seeing. I was responding to another post who suggested I needed to find a man who would be attentive in these ways, and my point was ok have often had that attention, but if not from the right man, it's meaningless or worse. it is not what I am seeking, though yes, from the right man, it's nice to have the end of day connection.

 

I still don't see the drama and dependence that you see.

[iamstrong]

Wow. This actually made me shudder. You are half right that you are doing the choosing. Choosing which loser to date next. Quality men don't chase women like this nor do they find this dependence on men, drama, and attention attractive.

 

COMPLETELY AGREE! This is the point I have been trying to make! You have a history of losers! Married guys: for which I will include the Crush. The crush on his own demerit and the 9 month guy. Each of these guys sound like complete losers. And the sad thing is that you allow it to happen. I pity the next man you are intimate with because it seems that you are only in it for the sex and to validate your stance as a woman. Of the three was the ex the only one you've been intimate with? I'll suggest that is not the case.

 

As I have said and other has, Karma is a heck of a thing.

 

And on the one hand you say that the ex was sneaking over after your children went to bed as to not involve them or however you said it and just prior to say that his daughters and your children play the same sport and that now you will have to come up with an excuse to tell your children why you no longer speak to him. I'm sorry: really I am, but you just sound completely over the edge!

 

You have drama: you ARE drama! I wonder how many times you have checked in on the wife's facebook page to see if more wedding pictures have been posted. You might be pretty to look at but it seems to several of us that there isn't much of an interior to check.

[iamstrong]

The drama seems imbedded in the fact that you are shocked that the ex got married without your permission and that you appear to have a history of dumping others in a lesser form: without getting married. You say you are over him but they 10 days ago you say you aren't. You have studied his picture to figure out if he is happy or not.

 

The crush as a girl where he lives and a girl local to you, so you are the loser of this conquest. Your interest might well be in the fact that you don't want to lose again in quick secession, so you might put a little more effort in this creep. Crush has shown you what kind of "man" he is based on your admission that he has someone at home and when you wouldn't sleep with him, he took on someone else in your town. Classy! I don't care how cute he might be: he is a loser.

 

9 month is playing your role and you that of the ex. Fun to have around but just not that into him and certainly not willing to commit. I would suggest you wanting to "properly kiss" him is influenced and generated by the news of the ex getting married. You will be using him as the ex used you: which means you are NO better than your ex. You are looking for and struggling with finding validation that you are desired.

[iamstrong]

my point was ok have often had that attention, but if not from the right man, it's meaningless or worse. it is not what I am seeking, though yes, from the right man, it's nice to have the end of day connection.

 

I still don't see the drama and dependence that you see.

 

Just how mean spirited are you? Having a man being attentive can be meaningless or worse????? I have a friend who died this morning from terminal brain cancer and she died alone in a hospice bed: ALONE! I can only imagine what she would have given to have a friend be attentive to her. Karma, as was suggested, is definitely in play in your life! How dare you say that a connection with someone can be meaningless or worse?

[IAmFCA]

iamstrong, you continue to make assumptions that are unfounded and mean spirited. I will no longer try to engage with you on this topic because you seem determined to read selectively. For example, more than once I referenced the fact that I have not been physically intimate with anyone for months, by choice, because I am clear what I am looking for and the physical relationship will come in time, after I establish a foundation of trust friendship and emotional intimacy.

 

I saw your thread about your friend and saw that you said, she was diagnosed with cancer and that caused you to pull even farther away from her how sad for you that you are struggling with your choice. I like to believe your friend is now at peace and would wish the same peace for you.

 

I hope you find it.

[iamstrong]

OP: I was simply pointing out that you are terribly wishy-washy when it comes to men that you are "selective" of. You have two sets of rules.

 

Thank you for your concern about my friend. I wonder if you would have done the same thing since the attention might not have been within your world: Would a dying friend looking for normalcy have been neatly considered "meaningless or worse" because all they would have to offer would be attention.

 

I will leave it alone. You obviously have issues: as we all do: to work out.

[IAmFCA]

OP: I was simply pointing out that you are terribly wishy-washy when it comes to men that you are "selective" of. You have two sets of rules.

 

Thank you for your concern about my friend. I wonder if you would have done the same thing since the attention might not have been within your world: Would a dying friend looking for normalcy have been neatly considered "meaningless or worse" because all they would have to offer would be attention.

 

I will leave it alone. You obviously have issues: as we all do: to work out.

 

Iamstrong, I surely would seem wishy washy when data is conflated and over simplified. I never dated a married man, not ever. The crazy person I did date who caused this post is someone I let into my life years ago and not today. My dating goals today are very different than they were in recent years. My approach today is necessarily different. I am happy with my approach. You aren't. That is okay, I am not dating you.

 

I began this thread about a man who trespassed on our friendship in ways I could not have expected. Who kept my friendship under false pretenses. I have not found a way to tell anyone else relevant to them, as that would be inflammatory. I will let it go, and as ENA has done in the past, ENA has once again given me the clarity to know and understand my answer. I would that I could find a priest who knows them, but I cannot.

 

I still have anger, and I still have a feeling of violation. I just keep asking myself and sometimes God to forgive me and show me faith that his repercussions are legion.

 

And I am still dating, in my way, ignoring most on line queries, occasionally making a new first date, rarely getting past a third date. Still glad to be friends with my crush, as maybe that is what is intended and if not that will show itself in time. Sometimes the crush feeling is powerful, sometimes it wanes and I am glad to have the friend. Still glad to have my slow goer of a man, who has begun to appreciate me more deeply and I him, and to take a day trip with him now will be a welcome opportunity to know him better.

 

It may be 2014 before any of these friendships blossoms into something more serious, or perhaps they dont and something develops with someone I havent met yet. I am so very glad to be single all this time and not beholden to anyone. The longer I dont choose a mate, the better I become and the better my potential mates become. Maybe I am getting ready for a more casual relationship, but I dont think I am ready for that. I still think I would get too involved.

 

This journey has been a fascinating maturation process!

 

Iam, though I disagree with your characterizations of my behavior and the conclusions you have drawn, I am grateful for the rich discussion. I have learned from it.

[Batya33]

"I began this thread about a man who trespassed on our friendship in ways I could not have expected. Who kept my friendship under false pretenses."

 

From what you posted, this wasn't a friendship entirely -it was in part- in large part? -a crossing friendship boundaries flirtation and not a harmless flirtation. So once you crossed those boundaries I'm not sure how he trespassed - the friendship rules no longer applied. Once you interacted with him in a sexual way (I understand, only in typing) I'm not sure what he was required to tell you about his personal life. If you didn't want those boundaries crossed you could have said something or walked away. Because you didn't choose those alternatives then you clearly were comfortable with going beyond platonic friendship. I write this mainly because if you are choosing to perhaps get involved again in romantic relationships being honest with yourself especially about boundaries is probably a good idea if not essential.

[IAmFCA]

Batya, yes, we had a very sexually charged relationship when we were dating, and as we rebuilt our communication we brought that back into it. So yes, I used the word friendship because what word is there? The friendship included an intimate aspect not shared among friends. I am honest about that. It doesn't reduce, and in fact increases, his responsibility to take himself out of that exchange with me, rather than further himself into it as he did and sully me along the way.

 

Our friendship was not a light exchange between trollop and master. Respect was earned and due.

 

Once I crossed the boundaries of discussing sex, how did he trespass? By engaging himself to be married while representing himself to me as conflicted about even being her "figurehead bf". By talking about his life decisions while excluding this most relevant and primary detail of being engaged. By letting me engage in intimate banter, knowing I would never have done so had I understood the nature of his commitment. By carrying on as if he were sincere about being my friend, sex or no sex, all the while hiding this wedding from me. The conversations about school, job hunting, being serious about sticking around in our home city -- was any of it sincere? All of that is a trespass. All of it. He led a double life, plain and simple, and I never would have bothered with him had he told the truth, which is why he didn't.

 

Unless his truth changed to a place of devotion to her and no attraction to me, a friendship with him would have been, and was (in retrospect), inappropriate. I am angry that he let it go on as he did, he being in full knowledge and keeping me in the dark.

[Hazyillusions]

^ Hun this man didn't force your hand nor have a gun pointed to your head forcing you to behave the way you did. You should take a step back and take responsibility for your actions as well. I would have thought at your age you would be mature enough and worldly enough to know the typical 'ambivalent' talk is just a cheater's way of having his cake and eating it too (I knew this years ago and I've just turned 24).

 

Regardless of what he said, you knew he had someone. Despite the distance, despite their 'issues' (according to him), he wasn't single and you knew it. So accept that you need to work on yourself and not ever get into this sort of situation again. We attract what we project afterall.

[Batya33]

Once I crossed the boundaries of discussing sex, how did he trespass? By engaging himself to be married while representing himself to me as conflicted about even being her "figurehead bf". By talking about his life decisions while excluding this most relevant and primary detail of being engaged. By letting me engage in intimate banter, knowing I would never have done so had I understood the nature of his commitment. By carrying on as if he were sincere about being my friend, sex or no sex, all the while hiding this wedding from me. The conversations about school, job hunting, being serious about sticking around in our home city -- was any of it sincere? All of that is a trespass. All of it. He led a double life, plain and simple, and I never would have bothered with him had he told the truth, which is why he didn't. ""

 

And you didn't inquire or tell yourself the truth about what you really wanted -if it was just a friendship as you claim you wouldn't have cared. I don't think you're taking enough responsibility for this, in my opinion and that might hurt you in future platonic and romantic relationships.

[IAmFCA]

My responsibility in this is that I chose to continue contact with a person whom I knew had the capacity to lie.

 

I did not want a relationship with him.

 

I accepted and enjoyed the sexual banter. I do not judge myself for this. They had a history of permitting certain indiscretions in one another. His representation that she just wanted a figurehead bf is believable. I trusted him to manage his relationship appropriately.

 

Nobody has ever misrepresented himself to me this way.

 

And now I go very slowly as I get to know someone. anyone wonder why??

[Batya33]

My responsibility in this is that I chose to continue contact with a person whom I knew had the capacity to lie.

 

I did not want a relationship with him.

 

I accepted and enjoyed the sexual banter. I do not judge myself for this. They had a history of permitting certain indiscretions in one another. His representation that she just wanted a figurehead bf is believable. I trusted him to manage his relationship appropriately.

 

Nobody has ever misrepresented himself to me this way.

 

And now I go very slowly as I get to know someone. anyone wonder why??

 

I wonder why you see your responsibility in this as so limited. I agree that you should take things slowly but I know for me and for most people I know if someone didn't want to see me more than once a month to get to know me I'd assume lack of interest in general and specifically in long term potential.

I understand this person lied about the extent of his relationship but you were playing with fire too and of course you chose to continue what you were doing even when you knew he had someone in his life, and lied to yourself by continuing to tell yourself it was appropriate behavior for platonic friends. I also think you should avoid friendships with men who do not tell their significant others about your existence (and typically friends want you to meet their SO if at all possible). And if it was an open relationship then all the more reason he should have been comfortable having her know about you in some way even if you couldn't meet in person because of distance.

 

I think you'll grow a lot more as a person if you are more honest with yourself and spend the energy on that rather than focusing on the other person's lie.

[lavenderdove]

>>>>This thread has become, and I have let it become, an analysis of my dating behavior, which is interesting to me.

 

OK, I think one reason people are doing this is because this is a case of 'blame the victim'. This happens for a couple reasons. Most people genuinely can't believe that there are people like that out there, who will live a double life and betray their friends/loved ones like this, but it is more common than people know. So they think that YOU must be the problem if a guy does this to you, when frankly you were his friend and as single adults however you choose to carry on your relationship (how deep or fast you let it go) is your business and your choice.

 

the second problem you run into is that such stories SCARE people, is in, oh, this would never happen to me because I am smart enough to recognize when someone is a problem so this woman must be doing something wrong to have this happen. So it makes them feel more secure and less afraid in their own lives if they tell themselves it must be YOU that attracted a lying cheating sociopath. And it is arrogance when people tell themselves 'that would never happen to me because i'd figure that out...' because it happens ALL THE TIME. There are sociopaths in all levels and types of society, and some of them are trying to steal money, some of them are sexually exploitive, others enjoy the thrill of the romantic hunt and chase etc.

 

The point is that sociopaths like this who live double lives are something like 3-5% of the population, about 1 out of 20 or 25 people. And most sociopaths victimize LOTS of people. So you start with a one in 20 chance of encountering one, which in reality goes to something like 1 in 4 to 5 people will probalby encounter at least one during their dating life becuae these sociopaths really get around and have unstable lives hopping thru a series of romantic relationships that they use to get sex or money. They are very charming, manipulative, liars, without conscience, do not form normal bonds with people etc. People think socipaths = serial killers but that is just not true in most cases, they are out in society and are predators who use and prey on people to get their needs met.

 

So if people tell themslves you must have 'brought this on yourself' they are seriously not taking into account that most socipaths are extraordinarly charming and glib and mimic 'normal' behavior very well. So most victims of sociopaths are truly and genuinely normal and decent people who have no clue what they're really dealing with til something like this comes out.

 

So that is why you are getting so much criticism. People don't 'get' that as an adult and a woman in your late 40s, you're first off not going to date like a teenager and if single at that age will likely have more men friends than you do serious romances. So I don't think you really did anything wrong other than discover you had a sociopath on your hands. You honestly got off easy as far as sociopath's go, and the person i feel sorry for is his new wife! It is hard and shocking for you, but you didn't co-mingle finances or your life with him, whereas his wife did, and I'm sure she has no clue at all what she has on her hands at this point, but eventulaly will, and I hope not before she donates her life savings or too much of herself to this man before he loses interest, strips her of assets, and moves on.

 

Socipaths try to take whatever they want at the moment, and have a high need for stimulation because they are 'hollow' people who don't make normal connections though they mimic them. So he was sexting you before and after the marriage to stimulate himself. And that marriage was most likely a means to an end, and i'd be VERY surprised if she didn't offer him something substantial like having a lot of money, social standing or something that he could gain from that had very little to do with love.

 

The good news is that most women who've ever been involved even for a short time with a sociopath do recognize the hallmarks of one, and do MUCH better in future relationships becuase they have honed some 'weeding out' skills to help them determine when a man is sincere vs. manipulative or trouble. It's a painful lesson to learn, but anyone who comes into contact with a 'double lifer' can't be blamed for much other than drifting into the realm of a sociopath, and the best advice there is just get out, as fast as you can, and never speak or interact with him again.

 

You may have gotten some good dating advice on this thread, but the tone that somehow faults you for being 'bad' or at fault for his behavior is way off the mark.

[Batya33]

"You may have gotten some good dating advice on this thread, but the tone that somehow faults you for being 'bad' or at fault for his behavior is way off the mark."

 

I would agree with this other than the OP decided to play with fire by having sexual conversations with her "friend" and having done that she took the risk that things could get unnecessarily complicated or worse. As she wrote, she made that choice because she enjoyed the sexual flirtation. I don't think she deserves to be lied to to the extent she was but I don't think that people who think she is at fault to an extent have a lack of understanding about sociopaths (if that was what he was -we don't really know that).

[IAmFCA]

"You may have gotten some good dating advice on this thread, but the tone that somehow faults you for being 'bad' or at fault for his behavior is way off the mark."

 

I would agree with this other than the OP decided to play with fire by having sexual conversations with her "friend" and having done that she took the risk that things could get unnecessarily complicated or worse. As she wrote, she made that choice because she enjoyed the sexual flirtation. I don't think she deserves to be lied to to the extent she was but I don't think that people who think she is at fault to an extent have a lack of understanding about sociopaths (if that was what he was -we don't really know that).

 

Playing with fire... ? I never ever complained about the nature of our relationship or theirs. Maybe I am simply being judged for having a sexual aspect to my friendship? Had he been even the normal amount of dishonest, like maybe she actually didn't know about me (she does, but who knows what ), and maybe she expects more from him, then no surprise. that's what I've been preaching to him all along.

 

LavenderDove describes this situation exactly. I have never seen anything like what I observed here. And indeed she offers social standing and is well- established. He hasn't been employed for months and has few friends (shocker).

 

With respect to others' interpretations of other men in my dating life, I do not question my own assessments, am in love with no one and haven't yet found what I am looking for. Again, that is exactly what dating is for, and I am glad to have the dating life I do without the entanglement of a relationship with someone whom I do not intend to marry. Now that my long term goals are clear to me, most nobody qualifies, out would qualify, till I get to know them first.

 

Sending appreciation to Lavenderdove for the post, which took time and effort and is a spot on assessment. I did not know the stats and take comfort in them.

[Batya33]

"Maybe I am simply being judged for having a sexual aspect to my friendship? "

 

I'm not judging you for that. I'm surprised you insist on calling it a "friendship" -once you started the sexting, etc. it was no longer a platonic friendship -by definition. At that point, since you knew there was someone else in the picture (even if you didn't know they were engaged) you were playing with fire in my opinion. And yes it was wrong of him to lie to you.

 

Let's put it this way -I think it's fine for people who are in relationships to have friends of the opposite sex under two conditions - the friend is supportive of the relationship and the significant other knows about the friend and has the opportunity to meet the friend (or at least speak to the friend if it's long distance) . If that's not the case then the friendship is probably inappropriate and certainly an interaction that involves sexting by definition is not supportive of the relationship.

 

I do understand that if he told you that he had an open relationship - that they dated other people - then sure, send x-rated texts to your heart's content -but don't call it a platonic friendship.

[IAmFCA]

I don't think I ever called it a platonic friendship. in the beginning I characterized it as a FWB of sorts, only by fb message only, and with an ex, and with some significantly meaningful caring behaviors.

[pl3asehelp]

I have never known a person considered charming who was not a selfish jerk to the people that really know that person well. Charming is a tell. A major one. Ignore that red flag at your own risk.

[pl3asehelp]

Friendships don't have sexual aspects. Romantic relationships do. Calling a romantic relationship a friendship is somethin people do because they either are afraid to admit their feelings or to disguise the truth of the relationship from others.

[IAmFCA]

Friendships don't have sexual aspects. Romantic relationships do. Calling a romantic relationship a friendship is somethin people do because they either are afraid to admit their feelings or to disguise the truth of the relationship from others.[/quote

 

um, okay.

 

my friends all know the nature of my relationship with him. If you have a better word, more power to you. Me personally? I haven't a clue what one calls an ex with whom one is rebuilding a communication pattern with no objective of dating, but more intimacy than normal.

 

and my entire office is charming. we all work in technical sales of a sort. we are not sleazy or superficial, but we are charming. still, I get your point.

[Batya33]

"my friends all know the nature of my relationship with him. If you have a better word, more power to you. Me personally? I haven't a clue what one calls an ex with whom one is rebuilding a communication pattern with no objective of dating, but more intimacy than normal."

 

 

The label doesn't matter. What matters is that you're using the "friendship" label to downplay your responsibility and role in this situation. Same issue with your "rebuilding a communication pattern" etc - just for yourself, try to tell it to yourself as simply as possible like it is, for example "I wanted to sext with him again".

[IAmFCA]

"my friends all know the nature of my relationship with him. If you have a better word, more power to you. Me personally? I haven't a clue what one calls an ex with whom one is rebuilding a communication pattern with no objective of dating, but more intimacy than normal."

 

The label doesn't matter. What matters is that you're using the "friendship" label to downplay your responsibility and role in this situation. Same issue with your "rebuilding a communication pattern" etc - just for yourself, try to tell it to yourself as simply as possible like it is, for example "I wanted to sext with him again".

 

Batya, Your prior post objected to the use of the word friendship.

 

Maybe you are trying to show me that at any moment I might have lost him, because I knew he was not committed to me and was involved with someone else. But losing him to her is not my issue. I wouldn't have taken him back even if it had been an option. I have come way too far in my understanding of who I am and what I want to get back.

 

The point is not the sex. The sex is a distraction from the point, an indication of the depth of his deception.

 

Had he said, "ITIC, we always have turned each other on, and that has been a great gift, but its time to turn the page. I am serious about this woman, this could really be something, so, let's keep it a pure friendship. If you can do that, and I can do that, then our friendship can continue." I would have said, "Wow, that is great news, you are unstuck for the first time in 5 years or more. I will respect your space and support your decision." Boom, goodbye to the sexting, just like that. Because the friendship always was more important that the sex, even when we were dating the knowing of one another always was more important than the sex. It took us 7 dates just to kiss.

 

This man did not do that. His violation is that he kept his engagement secret, kept his just-now wife secret. The depth of deception is increased by the sex talk. It also is increased by other discussions of life choices he was making about where he would live and work.

 

In the end, one could say, well obviously it was just about the sex because look how he threw the friendship away. And that would be rational, if were talking about a rational guy. We are not. I have had friends who have met him struggle with this same challenge. It was not just about the sex.

 

It is about his need to live a double life, which he did and he did only moderately well, sometimes engulfed in his own conflicts. Now I understand the depth of those conflicts and why he hid out by himself as he sometimes did. Living a double life is exhausting!

[Ms Darcy]

I did not want a relationship with him.

 

I accepted and enjoyed the sexual banter. I do not judge myself for this. They had a history of permitting certain indiscretions in one another. His representation that she just wanted a figurehead bf is believable. I trusted him to manage his relationship appropriately.

 

I think most folks on ena don't follow this moral compass. If a guy has a girlfriend, he has a girlfriend. If a guy has a wife, he has a wife. It doesn't matter what their internal agreement is - most would steer clear.

 

From that standpoint, most again would not understand or agree with laying all of the blame at his feet.

 

Like I say, I would just stay away from not only him but also all guys who are in a relationship - period.