Another person told me that I am "too nice"

[Deejmonster]

So I have heard this from at least 5-6 people now in the last few months or so from friends, family, and dates.. I am just too nice and it is probably the reason why I am still single. I have done a lot to fix what I can about myself. I have started to become more assertive at work, I am not longer a doormat, and I have cut down on how frequently I talk to a girl when we are dating. But, I still don't present a challenge. I still have trouble making the first move, I still struggle with having a real opinion when I disagree with someone. When something says something that I don't like, I dont agree with them.. but I also attempt to avoid confrontation. I have no clue how to walk up to woman and start a conversation, I solely stick to online dating anymore. I have caused my own frustrations here.. and I have made myself the way I am.. but I feel like I have been like this for so long that I don't know how to stop it anymore. I want to break out and be a little rebellious. I want to not care for once.. I dont want to be a jerk, but I dont want to be "the people pleaser" anymore. I still struggle to make friends which does give me a lot of time on my hands. I went out last night for the first time in weeks. It felt nice to be in a bar filled with crazy people all near my age.. and yet I stuck to my table with my friend and I just felt out of place. I used to be shy and college really broke me out of that shell... and now I live a life of solitude... afraid of hurting anyones feelings or making anyone mad. I know I need a lot of work and I would love to good direction to start in. Any help? Thanks everyone.

[annie24]

I don't think that 'nice' is the problem because I and most women i know want a nice guy!! Maybe you just haven't met the right girl? you said yourself that you can be shy. have you tried doing meetup groups or volunteering? somewhere you can meet women naturally?

[disneyfan]

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with a nice guy. As long as you are able to stand up for yourself when the occasion calls for it, I think you are on the right track. Don't change yourself for society. It's not worth it. You sound like a wonderful guy, and you'll find someone who likes you for who you are soon. Maybe try a different dating scene. Loud, crowded places probably aren't your scene. Try something more...you. I don't really know if you are the geeky type, the book worm type, ect. But try doing things that make you feel very comfortable and very you.

[Deejmonster]

I have looked into meet up groups but it always seems to attract an older crowd. I dont want to be selfish or anything but I would really like to try and maintain friendships near my age. Its just easier when the people you become friends with have similar interests and are not trying to raise families. I do have a long history with being quite passive and a people pleaser though. I have been unsuccessful for almost 2 years now. Its me. I just dont know how to tell me people no and add mystery to my personality. I will be starting grad school shortly and its online. So it will definitely consume time but again it wont be easy to meet anyone since the program is online as well as accross the country. haha

[Batya33]

It might help if you don't think about it as a nice-jerk dichotomy but rather that being passive/non-assertive isn't particularly "nice" so it's a behavior you might want to change. No need to act like a jerk of course -arrogance is typically about insecurity anyway.

[disneyfan]

I would still suggest going out and doing things you like, but don't go looking for dates. Do you like animals? Go volunteer at a shelter. Sports? Join a league. Reading? Book clubs. You'll meet new people, and you'll become less shy the more you interact with them! It will boost your confidence. Then maybe you'll have better luck going to a bar and meeting women your own age.

[Purusha]

It sounds to me like you want to develop more self belief and esteem more than anything, which will in turn give you more strength to be assertive and to express yourself more freely and confidently.

 

The problem with being passive is that people will find it difficult to get to know you, as you're not being yourself and hiding a large aspect of who you are and they will sense it quite easily.

 

A good way to start doing this without it being too overwhelming is to practice being honest as much as possible - maybe setting yourself a goal of saying 'no' twice a week, and build it from there. Practice expressing your opinion (you can team this with the saying 'no' exercise as you can explain your reasoning), you can start with less threatening situations, such as people who are closer to you who you feel will more readily accept your point of view, and then extend it to people you don't know so well.

 

After that, make it more challenging, be creative and expand your comfort zone - ladies like men who know who they are and believe in themselves, it's that mysterious 'confidence' that people exude that draws people to them.

 

Remember also that people are always too busy mainly thinking about themselves, what they're doing and how they're perceived, not about you, so you have less to worry about than you think!

 

From here, I'm sure many girls will be more receptive to you and you'll find it easier - once you embrace who you are it allows others to do the same.

 

The plus point also is that it will benefit lots of areas of your life, not just the ladies!

[LikeWater]

It might help if you don't think about it as a nice-jerk dichotomy but rather that being passive/non-assertive isn't particularly "nice" so it's a behavior you might want to change. No need to act like a jerk of course -arrogance is typically about insecurity anyway.

 

It seems to me that you don't believe that there are guys who are just genuinely nice people. Every time there's a thread about this kind of thing, you come in and say pretty much the same as what you said above. Always with nice in quotation marks.

[catcountry]

I have nothing except.....are you me? ....in a male body of course.

[Deejmonster]

I love this advice, definitely the part about people being mostly concerned about themselves when on a date or in a social situation. It makes sense and does take the pressure off. I dont want to be an "alpha male" its just not my type but I dont consider myself the "nerd" either.. somewhere in between. I have a lot going for me. I am a college grad, going back to grad school. I have a full time career, good pay, a car, and I support myself on my own. I have good manners and a good demeanor... I just dont trust others and I dont trust myself. At the same time I feel like I need to "win" the respect and love from other people and it often comes out when dating. I have talked to/dated near 40 some girls in the last 2 years. I settled with 1 for about 2-3 months. Before this, I had two relationships. One being 2.5 years and one being just under a year. After that... zap.. nothing. I still struggle. I wonder if its girls my age... I know a lot of girls and guys aren't ready to settle yet whereas I am.. I have contemplated just waiting a few years but I feel like I would be missing out. So I guess I am just trying to figure out exactly what the issue is... I know I have flaws and I am working on them.. but it still seems that I can't keep a girls attention to save my life.

[Purusha]

I think it's great that you're focussed on the positive aspects of yourself, and you certainly do sound as if you have a lot going for you in many respects.

 

The intention is to really get you to trust yourself implicitly, enhance your sense of belief and trust in yourself - this will have a massive impact on your life.

 

You have a lot of insight in terms of feeling that you need to win the respect and love from other people - usually the reason is because in some way you don't accept yourself for who you are and are seeking validation from others - this won't work whilst you hide a big chunk of who you are by being passive and non-authentic.

 

Do you have an inner critic like most of us? There's something I've discovered recently that might also help in this respect - the little voice in your head that says - 'you can't say that, you don't have the balls, and they won't like you if you do' - what that voice is really saying to you is 'there is no can't - you need to develop more confidence to say what you think, and not worry about the reaction of others'. The inner critic gives us clues as to what we need to develop in order to overcome our problems - the next time you hear it, ask it what you need to develop to be able to do the thing that you want to do, turn it into a positive and a motivator - it's there to help if you can learn to listen to it in the right way.

 

Take the first step in developing your self esteem and confidence and your life will expand, all you have to do for now is take the first step and people who are right for you will naturally come into your life, as you'll be attracting the right people at the right time.

[Purusha]

Apologies - just had an afterthought!

 

As an add-on, I would also say that whilst you seem to have your career and education on track, and you don't speak of any problems in terms of hobbies and interests, I assume that you have goals and desires in that area.

 

I would ask whether or not you have goals in terms of your relationships? In your post it's all about getting attention or dating a girl - what sort of girl do you want? What sort of aspirations do you have in terms of who you're looking for? What qualities do you like in a girl? What sort of lifestyle? Would you like to meet someone local or long distance?

 

Just as you'd be specific about your education and career, as you learn more about yourself and trust yourself some more, think about what sort of relationship you'd like - get clear about what you want. This will enable you to look in the right places, discover the right people, and meet the right girl.

 

If you don't do this you'll be feeling in the dark for a long time without a clear direction and looking in all the wrong places.

 

This came as an afterthought as I wondered if you have tendencies to try and win love and respect from partners whether you might settle for less than you truly desire, and to try and avoid this it's essential to consider what you want from a partner as well as what you, as an individual can contribute to such a person.

[Sportster2005]

Care less about other people. Be more selfish. The word selfish has a very negative connotation today. Probably because often it's associated with personal gain at the expense of others. Which isn't always the case. I mean really, the word is derived from self. And that should be your prime concern.

 

I don't advocate being an aggressive Richard Head, but please consider moving toward assertiveness. Think of yourself as a company and you are the CEO. Make decisions based on what's best for the company, even if those decisions are unpopular to others. No one likes conflict, and no one likes to be disliked and have others angry at us. But those are built in facts of life. Don't go out of your way to pee people off. But if you do be sensitive to their feelings but at the end of the day shrug it off. Care less about them if it's not in your best interest.

 

Everything else will fall in place.

[Deejmonster]

I am looking to meet someone with similar goals. Has an education, knows the importance of a good career, has their head on straight, respect, loyalty, is open to new things, and accepts the things that their partner is interested in even if they aren't truly into it. I am looking for someone wholesome. I would love to meet the right girl and settle down but it seems that when I bring this up, a lot of girls flake out. They aren't ready for that kind of commitment. I am not asking to get married in 2 months. Yet I dont want to date someone just to date them, with all my effort I would like to see if it potentially could go somewhere.. and girls my age mostly are still disinterested in that sort of relationship. (I am 24 btw). My hobbies are mostly solo. I am a huge outdoorsman and I also am a amateur artifact hunter/collector. It doesnt leave room to meet a ton of people. I mainly stick to online dating to meet women since I work in a male dominant field of work and I have 2 friends since I moved out here. 1 is married already and 1 is like me. I wonder if I were to make more friends, if that would open the door to meeting new people outside of them and then things would fall into place... but when I try to make new connections that fear of rejection/trust/and anti social behavior takes over and things fall apart.

[Purusha]

It sounds like the things in your life you'd like to change - limited amount of friends and passivity, and being single, is all linked to your confidence and self esteem and that these are areas that you need to work on to really expand the areas of your life that you'd like to be better.

 

If you developed the confidence and self esteem to connect easily with others, initiate more socialising and such it'd increase your social circle no end and your chances of finding someone compatible would increase.

 

The old fear of rejection eh? It's all a myth really - a good way to look at it is, say for example, you ask someone you'd like to get to know better (whether that's someone you know that you admire or a potential partner) out for dinner and they say no, what have you lost? You didn't have anyone to go to dinner before, and you still don't - the situation has stayed exactly the same and you know how to deal with that because you're already there.

 

The rub is that if you don't set yourself a goal, you're guaranteed not to get there (if you choose a road to nowhere you're still going nowhere), but if you set a goal, you might not get there a few times, but you will get there because you've opened the door, and there's people behind those doors that want to say yes just as there are others who may say no. The difference between these two situations is your attitude, not a given outcome.

 

An example of perceptual differences is fear and excitement - the physiological symptoms of fear are exactly the same as the feelings of excitement, the difference is how you interpret it in your mind's eye - the next time you feel fear, focus on what's exciting about the situation, the positive things that you're feeling and you'll notice a huge difference in the way you feel and see a situation and also impact on how you see yourself. It puts you in a position of strength and an open mindedness to develop and experience things and people in a new way.

 

If for example, your hobbies are solo and you want to use them to meet more people - do it! Expand your repertoire to include your interests that involve other people - you have interesting hobbies that other's are interested in too and I'm sure that there are groups out there that you'd enjoy where people get together. Even if it's male orientated the exercise of meeting other people, inviting them into your life and such will introduce more friends and more potential partners.

 

Deal with you first, and the rest will follow.

[Batya33]

It seems to me that you don't believe that there are guys who are just genuinely nice people. Every time there's a thread about this kind of thing, you come in and say pretty much the same as what you said above. Always with nice in quotation marks.

 

To the contrary all I am writing is that the word nice is often misused to mean non-assertive as the OP did in his post. I don't think that's "nice". I think there are many people who are nice -meaning good, kind, considerate, thoughtful people with solid values. My husband being one of them.

 

For example the OP wrote in his description of how he is "too nice"

 

" I have started to become more assertive at work, I am not longer a doormat" I don't think it's nice to be non-assertive or a doormat. It is not mean either but it's far more often about the person wanting approval than in wanting to be considerate, thoughtful, or kind.

[Angler]

I have looked into meet up groups but it always seems to attract an older crowd. I dont want to be selfish or anything but I would really like to try and maintain friendships near my age. It's just easier....

 

^^^Do you see what you did there? Stop that!!! You don't have to qualify or apologize for having an opinion, preferences, likes, or dislikes.

[Angler]

It seems to me that you don't believe that there are guys who are just genuinely nice people. Every time there's a thread about this kind of thing, you come in and say pretty much the same as what you said above. Always with nice in quotation marks.

 

I think you completely misunderstood Batya's post.

[Blue Spiral]

I think you completely misunderstood Batya's post.

 

I don't think he did. On the contrary, I think he saw what she was really implying. Like all personality traits, assertiveness exists on a sliding scale. One person's idea of a doormat is another person's idea of normal. But we're getting sidetracked. It's become common to say, "These nice guys that are complaining aren't actually nice at all, they're just doormats!" In other words, avoiding the actual issue (why women seem to value certain types of men more than others, regardless of how those men treat them) by making unfounded accusations against the losers of that particular intra-gender battle. The terminology varies: doormats, bitter, sore losers, etc. I'm sure that some of them are indeed the type of people that would commonly be described as doormats/etc., but all of them, explaining the entire phenomenon? I seriously doubt it.

 

I've come to accept that assertiveness/"confidence" is to women what breasts/other superficial physical traits are to men--something we're attracted to for no logical reason, something that's completely irrelevant in a serious relationship (not that I'd claim to know much about those), and something that will get us in trouble throughout our lives. Once upon a time, I'm sure that male aggression/female signs of fertility were very important in terms of mate-selection and what have you, but going by them now...it'd be like trying to run nothing but DOS on a modern laptop. I'm sure it'd work in a basic way, but the laptop is capable of so much more.

[chitown9]

How about throwing a small get together at your house...like a barbecue? ...chi

[Batya33]

I was responding to the OP's particular self-description, equating niceness with being non-assertive. I don't think assertiveness or non-assertiveness have much to do with being nice except that I trust niceness far more when it comes from someone who is reasonably (just reasonably is sufficient) assertive and confident and I don't trust nice behavior much when it is obvious that the person is behaving that way far more for their own purposes.

 

One of the reasons my husband and I reconnected after breaking up was because we both became more self-confident and assertive. Those qualities remain essential in a healthy marriage and are part of the way we're doing ok at parenting, too. I agree that arrogance is something that attracts certain women and it is often a huge negative in serious relationships.

[Deejmonster]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I didn't know that this debate was going on or I would have chimed in a littler earlier. Maybe some more detail can help me and everyone else figure out what we are looking for here.

 

I consider myself a very good person. Raised very well and sorta strict. All my life, I have been attracted to trying to be a good person. I do things for others when I can because I love helping others and it also makes me feel good. (Confidence maybe even?). I have a few issues that I need resolved. One is friends. I moved to a new state a few years ago and I haven't been able to really connect with others' near my age because I am kind of shy and also I am picky. So its been hard to find qualifiers. I have been told to lower my standards but I can't. I just won't. (I know this is the part where you are shaking your head, thinking well that is being assertive! and I know I am) However, when it comes to dating.. something changes. I lose that ability somewhat to just say NO!. Its easier when I am not attracted to the other person after meeting them. I am able to really just write them off and keep on living. However, when I meet a girl that really gets my mind racing... I lose it all. I tend to avoid confrontation, allow for unattractive behaviors, (being late, drinking a little too much during the date, rescheduling at last minute) which causes me to look like a doormat. I do it somewhat out of trying to be a good and understanding person and also because I dont have the confidence to stand up and be a man in fear of having them say no to a second date.. So I give them what they want. A big smile, a free dinner, and most times I will pick something in their neck of the woods so that they dont have to drive far... People are screaming right now.. I can hear it haha. These are the habits that I want to break. I just fear that if I become a little jaded and mysterious, its going to turn women away. I dont want to be arrogant, I just want to stop freely giving out everything without them asking. Not to mention that I tend to overtext in the beginning as well. I just dont know how to stop and make them work and say no.

[abitbroken]

I have looked into meet up groups but it always seems to attract an older crowd. I dont want to be selfish or anything but I would really like to try and maintain friendships near my age. Its just easier when the people you become friends with have similar interests and are not trying to raise families. I do have a long history with being quite passive and a people pleaser though. I have been unsuccessful for almost 2 years now. Its me. I just dont know how to tell me people no and add mystery to my personality. I will be starting grad school shortly and its online. So it will definitely consume time but again it wont be easy to meet anyone since the program is online as well as accross the country. haha

 

Don't join singles meet ups. Join some based on your interests. I joined a meetup based on my pets and reading interests and nature interests and have met people of all ages - but more skewed to the young side

 

am a huge outdoorsman and I also am a amateur artifact hunter/collector. It doesnt leave room to meet a ton of people

 

Why don't you go to charity functions for the natural history or art museum that has such antiquities? Or lectures? The best introductions can sometimes be to a new friends' sister, roomie, or daughter. They already vouched for you to her. But mostly to make friends. There are a lot of women who like the outdoors. Plenty of women who had dads who hunt and fish and taught them or maybe you need to expand what outdoors means - there are group outdoor activities such as snowmobiling, hiking, geocaching and the like. What about a gal that likes horseback trail riding, etc? There are few outdoor activities that are solitary. Even guys who hunt go with buddies.

 

Thanks everyone for the responses. I didn't know that this debate was going on or I would have chimed in a littler earlier. Maybe some more detail can help me and everyone else figure out what we are looking for here.

 

I consider myself a very good person. Raised very well and sorta strict. All my life, I have been attracted to trying to be a good person. I do things for others when I can because I love helping others and it also makes me feel good. (Confidence maybe even?). I have a few issues that I need resolved. One is friends. I moved to a new state a few years ago and I haven't been able to really connect with others' near my age because I am kind of shy and also I am picky. So its been hard to find qualifiers. I have been told to lower my standards but I can't. I just won't. (I know this is the part where you are shaking your head, thinking well that is being assertive! and I know I am) However, when it comes to dating.. something changes. I lose that ability somewhat to just say NO!. Its easier when I am not attracted to the other person after meeting them. I am able to really just write them off and keep on living. However, when I meet a girl that really gets my mind racing... I lose it all. I tend to avoid confrontation, allow for unattractive behaviors, (being late, drinking a little too much during the date, rescheduling at last minute) which causes me to look like a doormat. I do it somewhat out of trying to be a good and understanding person and also because I dont have the confidence to stand up and be a man in fear of having them say no to a second date.. So I give them what they want. A big smile, a free dinner, and most times I will pick something in their neck of the woods so that they dont have to drive far... People are screaming right now.. I can hear it haha. These are the habits that I want to break. I just fear that if I become a little jaded and mysterious, its going to turn women away. I dont want to be arrogant, I just want to stop freely giving out everything without them asking. Not to mention that I tend to overtext in the beginning as well. I just dont know how to stop and make them work and say no.

 

You probably have the same picky attitude about women, then, and are probably rejecting women unintentionally. I suspect you are weeding people out and only want people around who can be your best friend or girlfriend. It is okay to have acquaintances and casual friends you are not as close to but are on friendly terms with.

 

I also suggest that when you meet a woman, that you don't go to dinner right off the bat. You meet for a predate. You meet for coffee to see if there is a connection enough to go on a date or not or ice cream or something. Or lunch is good. You meet somewhere and don't pick her up. Also, you know by someone's online profile if they are into drinking or going to bars - if they say that its their idea of a good time or they have a drink in their hand in every picture - don't message them. If you pull out ALL the stops on the first date, you are going to feel resentful if she honestly just doesn't think you are the one for her - and there is at least a 50-50 chance that she won't. That's just the way it is.

 

If you overtext a girl or a friend, then why not start making the rule where you call them for dates instead of texting?

[Angler]

So I give them what they want. A big smile, a free dinner, and most times I will pick something in their neck of the woods so that they dont have to drive far... People are screaming right now.. I can hear it haha. These are the habits that I want to break. I just fear that if I become a little jaded and mysterious...

 

I smile, buy dinner, and accept the majority of the commuting burden, because I am a nice guy, not a "nice guy".

 

There is nothing wrong with these behaviours, it's the other stuff you mentioned - accepting poor treatment, rudeness, lacking an opinion if it results in disagreement...and it's when a girl gives a signal that she isn't interested, or doesn't respect your time, then smiles and dinners make you a "nice guy", trying to buy her affection with good behaviour, you know?

 

No one says you have to be jaded. You can still be a nice guy without being the "nice guy", if you know what I mean.

[Blue Spiral]

No one says you have to be jaded. You can still be a nice guy without being the "nice guy", if you know what I mean.

 

I love the scare quotes. Very crass and bullying.

 

Is it really necessary to single out and mock the guys who literally have nothing to offer women but how they treat them? And I say that as one of them, btw. If you were to ask me to make a list of things I have to offer women, "Be nice to them" would be #1 and I don't know if I could come up with a #2. I agree that no one should accept bad treatment, but that's a separate issue, for the most part. Sad to say, some people become doormats because they have to be, or else they'd be truly and utterly alone. If you don't have much to offer, your selection is going to be limited, and beggars can't be choosers. Personally, I'd rather have dignity and be alone, but not everyone is comfortable making that choice.

 

When one doesn't have the advantages that other guys have, yes, one may have to "buy affection" by going out of their way to treat someone well. That's just common sense. Some guys do it in a dishonest way, and some guys do it by simply taking something sincere and really expressing it. I'll never understand why people want to vilify those of us on the lowest rung of the proverbial food chain, while guys that are doing far worse things (and who have no problem getting women) are running around unchecked.