Misanthrope Who Also Cares About Other People

[SapphireNoir10]

The key is striving to be a better/good person.

 

Feeling empathy and sadness for the bad in the world is a good thing. Being good to others etc is leading by example. If you are unhappy at people and the world, then rise above it and be a good, kind, nice person. It's proving to others that you CAN be a good person even if they may not be able to.

 

No one deserves death or bad things. I mean damn I cry if I see an animal get hurt, let alone news stories and charity adverts. I watch the news to stay educated, but it makes me SO sad. but like another poster said, the news is a distorted view of reality. They are going to report the negative things rather than the positive things. It's like. If you save 1000 people but murder 1. That one murder outweighs all the good you did for the other 1000. So in that way, bad stuff is always going to be on the news rather than good stuff, cos good stuff is unremarkable.

[Purple Turtle]

 

I mean there must be stuff you enjoy...tv shows or games?? Do you go out much?

 

yes i do enjoy TV (i spend half my day watching it, LOL, literally) as well as music occasionally (many different genres but mainly electronic) and surfing the internet (which i spend the other half of my day doing) for TONS of information about various topics and things. this in part is what made me realize how horrible this world truly is. i was able over the years to analyze things and figure out how sh*tty alot of human beings are. people here are saying most people are good but that's not really the point i'm trying to make. it's a much larger and complex point that most people would not understand so i probably shouldn't have gotten into this in the first place and posted here but after 8 years of barely talking to anyone about these things i figured what the heck. as far as going out much i have started to go out more "regularly" since i began therapy (not my current therapist) in february 2011. i still barely go out though (right now it's about once a week) and i have no clue what to do with my life, i'm 28, have ZERO friends, zero people to talk to besides my parents and relatives, no social life since 20 years old, no confidence, no energy, very weak, no motivation to really change, but at the same time i don't really want to live this way. so it's weird that i hate my life but i don't know how to change it and i feel very afraid of the world and other people and i feel worried about alot of things in the world. so there's a chance i could spend my ENTIRE 20's basically indoors and even maybe my entire 30's, who knows at this point? the whole earth and life itself to me is really sort of a cruel joke and COMPLETELY ABSURD when you really think about it. i mean you would think at least god (or whatever higher power you call it since clearly the big bang didn't just cause all of this) would give people some sort of sign that there's a better place after this garbage earth but we don't even get THAT...

[itsallgrand]

thanks itsallgrand, just wish i knew how to get out. it almost feels completely pointless and absurd, this whole world.

 

Almost. But there is something in you yet that hasn't given up. That is where to start. Nurture that baby.

 

You say you care about other people....anyone in particular?

[Purple Turtle]

Almost. But there is something in you yet that hasn't given up. That is where to start. Nurture that baby.

 

You say you care about other people....anyone in particular?

 

when i say i care about other people i mean in the general sense of i'm not a sociopath and i have feelings for other human beings besides myself. at the same time i hate a lot of people and hope that harm comes to them but i know i could not do it myself because i'm not that bad/violent of a person to hurt other people myself. i'll give an example, i have a jerky neighbor who i know is a "conservative republican" and supported a literal war criminal fascist president george bush in the 2004 elections and he thought he was the greatest president and all that stuff. now FFWD to 2010 and this guy was in a car accident where he injured his knee. the only thing i was upset about was that he didn't die. so does that make me a bad person?

[Purple Turtle]

it just seems that so often bad things happen to good people, and good things happen to bad people. that's another thing i've noticed in my lifetime and it's very frustrating and angering. i always wonder why can't more bad things happen to bad people?

[SapphireNoir10]

Like I said in your other post. Life isn't fair.

 

We only get one life though, so why not just enjoy YOUR life and make the most of it. 28 Is still young. My dad didn't get married and have kids and get started with his life properly until he was 36.

 

I think it is a lil harsh to want someone to die for their political beliefs etc. I'm not saying his views are right, but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. Part of being a good person is realising that you can't control how people think and what they do, you can only control what YOU do.

[Capricorn3]

i'll give an example, i have a jerky neighbor now FFWD to 2010 and this guy was in a car accident where he injured his knee. the only thing i was upset about was that he didn't die. so does that make me a bad person?

That's pretty disturbing to say the least. How would you feel if people thought that about YOU and wished YOU dead? Not nice at all (imo).

[camus154]

OP,

 

I understand and appreciate that you have various psychological factors at play here. But you're not a dumb guy, right? Do you consider yourself an intelligent person?

[itsallgrand]

when i say i care about other people i mean in the general sense of i'm not a sociopath and i have feelings for other human beings besides myself. at the same time i hate a lot of people and hope that harm comes to them but i know i could not do it myself because i'm not that bad/violent of a person to hurt other people myself. i'll give an example, i have a jerky neighbor who i know is a "conservative republican" and supported a literal war criminal fascist president george bush in the 2004 elections and he thought he was the greatest president and all that stuff. now FFWD to 2010 and this guy was in a car accident where he injured his knee. the only thing i was upset about was that he didn't die. so does that make me a bad person?

 

Do you think it makes you a bad person? Do you think it embodies the kind of values you really have? Death to those who do not do what you want them to do?

 

There are people out in this world actively pursuing the natural outgrowth of this line of thinking. People who fervently believe that others deserve to die because of X Y Z. X Y Z - because - it really can be anything once you have allowed yourself to believe that others do deserve to die simply because you want them to.

 

I have to say I was a little upset reading of your perception of your life as "not at all luxurious". Not at all luxurious?! Compared to What?! The .1 % of the population who has it better than you?! I had a hard time with that. A person would have to be living pretty much in a cave to believe that - what with so many people struggling on this planet with necessities. You say you spend so much time becoming informed - so how can you possibly believe you are not living in luxury?! You have access to constantly running pure water. A roof over your head. Constant electricity. Loving parents who want you to be safe and happy, and are even willing to sacrifice for you. You have access to health care. Even therapy! You have the luxury of NOT working as a choice.

 

Then I remembered you pretty much HAVE been living in a cave. You don't have your feet on the ground, you aren't out seeing what is going on out there.

 

If you could only even embrace THAT - that you do not have all the facts in which to make such strong opinions - you would have some head space with which to work.

 

But your fear immobilizes you. So perhaps instead of labeling it all hate and anger, you could look at what makes anger? Fear.

 

So what are you afraid is going to happen to you out there? And why do you not think you are strong enough for it?

 

Will you make a decision. Will you resolve to change this in your self. Or will you choose instead to luxuriate in endless paralysis. You decide.

 

BTW, feel free to p arouse my history here if you don't think I can understand you. Anger and trauma have been my issues to contend with starting early in life. It hasn't beat me yet, and it won't. Make a decision. Be your own ally first. All else follows...answers come. Support comes.

[Purple Turtle]

Itsallgrand I see what your saying but I do not feel at all like only .1% of people have it better than me. Yes I may not have to work and have food/shelter but where I live right now SUCKS for lack of a better word. I live right next door to a loud barking dog and i also live next door to people who turn their TV's up loud and I have to hear them through the wall and that makes me very anxious and i can't really relax until they turn it off (which can be for HOURS at a time). That is why I usually stay up late at night because they usually go to bed around midnight and that's when I get about 8-9 hours of quiet before the dog starts up again and they turn on their TV. If I lived in something as simple as a house that did not SHARE A WALL with another family I wouldn't have to live like this not to mention when my parents lived here how embarrassing it was for them to have to hear us arguing EVERY DAY and screaming at each other like maniacs. Also how many people have to live next door to a dog that is put in the backyard BARKING and stressing me out every day and wakes me up from my sleep to a point where now my sleep cycle is all out of wack because I get woken up all the time? I think that MOST (certainly not all) people have it much better than me and don't have to deal with all this noise where they live. Anyone here please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

[Fudgie]

My neighbor's dog wakes me up often. Bark bark bark. I need to sleep during the day because I work at night only. I also have a noisy cat that loves to wake me up with his meowing/pawing my head just to screw with me.

 

On my nights off, my boyfriend wakes me up because he snores. Then sometimes I get woken up again because I'M snoring. Lol. I can't win.

 

I usually end up putting on noise-canceling headphones and yell at the cat until he finds something else to torture, lol. With my boyfriend, I'll wake up him up to tell him he's snoring or I'll gently push him over so he's sleeping on his side.

 

But honestly, it seems like a silly thing to worry about. Noise is noise. It's correctable. You can ignore or wear something.

 

I feel thankful that I'm not living at college anymore. It was so loud there.

[tiredofvampires]

I'm sure this has been said in some form or fashion...but the root of what is termed "evil" is a sense of anger and powerlessness at injustice. At least what we consider sane, calculated evil. The beginning of evil is anger, whether justified or not.

 

So the thoughts you are expressing about your "eye for an eye" justice, your wanting people you hate to die, etc. is the basis of the very evil you are condemning.

 

The irony is not lost on you, is it?

 

It's pretty humbling, isn't it, when you realize you contain a little of the whole world and humanity.

 

And then there is the other real reason for "evil": brain imbalances. So, the less sane version of evil. I don't think that if someone has something wrong with the way their brain works, that makes them evil, even if they do horrible things. It makes them sick. Sickness is not "human nature," unless you're calling biology "human nature." I don't think anyone reasonably can say that biology is immoral, and therefore, evil. It just exists.

 

I have a feeling that were science to probe all malicious human behavior, you'd get either people who were wronged and whose brain has changed as a result of that (so, they began as victims, who you sympathize with), or people who are too physiologically compromised to experience normal function. So either way...it's questionable what the nature of evil really is.

 

So if you're a lucky enough person to be able to feel empathy (also a biologically-based ability, not a moral one), you should spend the rest of your life using it to show others the power it has to heal.

 

I think you have a sense of empathy and justice -- so, it started out from a good place -- which has become warped. And so, as so often happens, it's on its way to "evil" -- the righteous, wronged, indignant type. But when you reverse this trend, through self-insight, you'll realize that your life could have an impact and a purpose that actually conforms to your own values about how people should be.

 

Your life's mission might be walking your talk about abhoring evil -- by refusing to contribute with your own mind. Because your mind is that representation of the whole, even if you transform only your own mind, you're representing a transformation of the whole. And chances are, you might transform more than just yourself because that sort of thing rubs off on people too, just as being mean does.

 

Think about it. It's a pretty good (though challenging) lifelong project.

[Purple Turtle]

^^^ Tiredofvampires I appreciate your comments and thoughts. I'm just curious are you saying then that sociopaths can't really be blamed for their actions? So e.g. a serial killer who literally rapes and murders for pleasure (read about these evil scumbags, they actually get sexual pleasure from killing other people) isn't really their fault because the root cause of their sadistic violence is genetic/biological? I'm a little confused. Also could you please elaborate on this statement you made: "Your life's mission might be walking your talk about abhoring evil -- by refusing to contribute with your own mind. Because your mind is that representation of the whole, even if you transform only your own mind, you're representing a transformation of the whole" I don't quite understand what you mean but I'd really like to know. Thanks so much...

[itsallgrand]

ANything else besides the dog?? That is workable - you can change that, if you want. Many options with that. If you are interested. Though, of course new annoyances will replace that one.

 

We ALL have our lists of grievances, challenges, troubles. ALL. Every single one.

 

Can you truly not see how small of an issue a dog barking is? In the wider context? and that was why I mentioned what I did - to get you to think a little bit of the wider context if you can and try and expand that....it can be very humbling!

 

Example, I had a kinda rough day. It's -42 C in my city today (coldest day of the year too), and I had work to do outside today in a this weather for part of the day. I was up at three in the morning to get ready for work. I was tired. I didn't really feel like getting up today so early at all.

 

The only thing that keeps me from getting totally miserable on days like today is remembering what I've got. Sure, I've got my troubles, but I woke up with a healthy body today. I have a job (more than one actually) and I have skills and the ability to do these jobs. I have money in my pocket. A warm home that I got to come home to today, and a warm winter jacket. I had the chance today to give something. My challenges are important and my own, but meanwhile, everyone else has theirs too...and some of them are a lot more pressing than mine. The world doesn't stop spinning cause it's cold outside. lol.

 

What can you give? You have a lot, so what can you give? Think about it.

 

I like what TOV said, how one person's contribution is ENOUGH. If all you ever do is change yourself, for the better and for something worthwhile, that is ENOUGH. If you can do more, that's even better. But it really does have to start with YOURSELF.

 

There is some bit of text along the lines of thinking that when one life is saved, it's like saving a world, something to that effect...which someone could properly source it for me...it always struck me as particularly powerful AND hopeful. My mind wants to credit it to the Talmud. The idea being that the death of one is the death of a world...someone?

 

The antidote to helplessness...action.

[tiredofvampires]

There is some bit of text along the lines of thinking that when one life is saved, it's like saving a world, something to that effect...which someone could properly source it for me...it always struck me as particularly powerful AND hopeful. My mind wants to credit it to the Talmud. The idea being that the death of one is the death of a world...someone?

 

Indeed, that concept is contained in the Talmud (though I believe a lot of cultures have a similar spiritual concept.) "Whosoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whosoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world." (specifically attributed to Rabbi Hillel). That idea has broadened to the concept that when one person dies, the world dies, and when one person is saved, the world is saved. Because we are all cut from the same cloth -- or, as the Native Americans say, threads in the same weave. Like I said...that truth has been recognized by many cultures, and I'm sure we could find even more. But "die and the whole world has died with you," yes, that is Talmudic.

 

Of course, if you're looking at the gross level of reality -- our insignificance in the cosmos, that accross the world the sun is rising just as it did yesterday when someone dies, and all the world continues in its affairs -- this truth of our inteconnectedness is not as apparent. It is not readily observable that the world has changed forever the minute someone dies. Or, on the other hand, is healed. But truths aren't necessarily obvious to our senses or immediate perceptions -- just as it wouldn't be readily obvious that without honeybees, the whole human race would die out, and quickly (that's a fact you can look up). True things can be very subtle and even invisible. So you have to perceive them through other means than just what the news is depicting, or what the dominant culture is saying, or even doing.

 

I'm just curious are you saying then that sociopaths can't really be blamed for their actions? So e.g. a serial killer who literally rapes and murders for pleasure (read about these evil scumbags, they actually get sexual pleasure from killing other people) isn't really their fault because the root cause of their sadistic violence is genetic/biological?

 

I wouldn't say that they are "blameless" or that it's "not their fault", because that would be overly simplistic and would suggest they had no volition in the matter whatsoever. On the other hand, I believe it's simplistic to view things as you are doing.

 

What I will say is that sociopaths/psychopaths and people who gain pleasure from others' suffering and do these heinous things are in fact very mentally ill, and this can be supported by modern brain science. Just in the case of Sandy Hook alone, building on previous research, psychiatrists who deal with sociopathy are looking as we speak at patterns in the brain that can predispose a person to this kind of behavior. They already know that there are pathological (that is, abnormal, disease-like) characteristics in the brains of people who commit these kinds of crimes. I was watching a program after the Sandy Hook incident about this, and what researches explained is that in nearly all these cases, a profile is emerging about what these perpetrators have in common. They have a number of shared traits, including brain abnormalities, that can be identified, but this is still a young field of study. They pointed out an interesting but significant fact, that a common denominator in these mass shooting cases is that the perpetrator(s) virtually ALWAYS killed himself/themselves after the shooting. They only have one documented case where that didn't happen, and they aired an audio interview that had been conducted with the killer, a young man about the age of the Sandy Hook shooter. The program warned that it would be disturbing, and they were right. This young man was sobbing as he was calmly asked questions by the interviewer (a mental health professional of some kind) about what was going through his head at every step of the way, including killing his mother and father point blank range before going on the rampage. And he was saying again and again that he wanted to die, that he loved his parents, he didn't want to kill them but that he felt that he "had to do it," he was just utterly compelled to HAVE to kill them (over some punishment like grounding they had enforced). He pleaded for someone kill him, that he wanted to die, that his parents were good people, but he was propelled by a feeling of it being not a choice that was up to him. He kept saying, "I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice," and crying hysterically. It struck me that it was as if some force had taken him over in his actions, and that while even though he might not have been clinically insane (as in, hearing voices, losing touch with reality, etc.), that something so compelling within him, so gripping had gotten ahold of him, that he was unable to resist this, almost as a compulsive action. I can't imagine living in a worse hell than that, his pain was so palpable, I felt my stomach turn. But clearly, that is the outward manifestation of something that's gone terribly wrong with a brain and the way it normally functions.

 

He's just one example of course, but we could run a battery of brain imaging tests on a variety of sociopathic or otherwise criminally violent individuals, and start coming up with some real hardcore, biochemical and anatomical information about what is wrong with them, and something definitely is. Have you seen the eyes of the Sandy Hook shooter? You can see that something is wrong with his brain just looking into eyes. Maybe the eyes are as much the windows to the brain as to the soul.

 

So what I'm saying is that yes, I believe that there is a strong biological component to violence and heinous acts. Sociopathy is a psychiatric diagnosis as it is, so it's considered an illness already. Most experts believe that it is an incurable illness, because some functions of the brain -- in particular, empathy, which is critical to being able to feel others' pain and also feel remorse -- are simply absent. It's like being born without a limb, in a way.

 

And that's the problem, as I see it. The brain is an organ like every other. So it gets sick like any other can. And the brain is the MOST complex organ we have, so is it any wonder that there's a strong medical component to terrible acts against others? Because the brain is where our sense of morality, sense of self, reason, ethics, judgment of right and wrong are located, something that disrupts that and turns it into a dysfunctioning organ will be seen more in terms of social, moral, and personal failing and be branded, condemned and punished that way, since it is the brain that governs all these faculties for self-control. Which means it'll be hard for the brain to ever get an impartial shake, like other organs, because we depend on our sense of morality to keep society running, and deviants are a threat to that emotional and societal security.

 

What I'm saying is that when the master switch breaks -- the brain -- it's like the heart or lungs or liver breaking, but no one will ever see it that way until our science gets more data, which is a long way off. It's a huge conundrum because unlike the liver or heart or lungs, since we DO have a measure of control and will, and no one can quantify how much in each person (we don't even know ourselves that well) it will always be a question of how much has been determined by biology, and how much by our individual shaping experiences and choices, in the balance.

 

These are very thorny issues because like all illnesses, a personal psychological or social illness doesn't come on overnight. A pathology evolves, and that's where it gets murky. This means that at many points along the way, a predisposed/vulnerable individual may have opportunities to make choices that are life-affirming, of their freewill, that they sadly do not make. And of course, our society would fall apart without any justice system. We need that institution. So it's not like individuals are absolved of the responsibility for their actions. What I'm saying is that the existence of a strong disposition, which may be inborn, is not something a person has a say over when coming into the world. If someone is predisposed to a brain aberrant pattern, or has a brain structure that is aberrant, and that causes them to be very susceptible to environmental factors that push them over the edge, it's a perfect storm. And that's what the scientists say about people who have sociopathic elements: it's the combination of what they were set up for, biologically PLUS what they were exposed to, and how their brains have assimilated these factors. It's the old "nature vs. nurture" question. Clearly, to me, if a boy says he loves his parents but felt compelled to kill them, and had also been bullied in school (which was the case in that situation), something in his brain was clearly already not right, something in his environment made it worse, and the fuse went off.

 

So it's a much larger issue to tackle than just labeling someone a scumbag, even if I agree that these tragedies are horrific and I have the greatest sympathy for the victims and those left behind.

 

I'm not saying it's just a matter of luck to be a "good person". What I'm saying is that we are all a mixture of good propensities and evil ones, which we are born with and then that gets reinforced by our life experiences and how we handle those -- this is universal and just a question of degree from person to person. You can find people on both ends of the spectrum -- you can find examples of saints (or near-saints) and you can find examples of their opposites. Most people are somewhere in the middle, in this spectrum. As in most phenomena we can observe, it's probably a bell curve. When you consider how many intricate things operate the brain and cognition, it's a wonder to me that more people aren't insane. The point is, in each individual case, it might be almost impossible to determine what part of their problem is "nature" and what is "nurture" (and therefore, something we can work with more dynamically). Knowing that both could be operative is very sobering and worthy of consideration.

 

We need more research on this type of human illness that seems under our control much moreso than any other illness.

 

It's worth noting that in indigenous societies that had small, close-knit communities with high levels of interaction and inclusion of all members, the kinds of illness we see that go into psychotic violent behavior were virtually non-existent. This is not to say human nature was different -- but that if people were born with certain tendencies, the nature of the society prevented those tendencies from manifesting and spinning out of control. Which is a very stark illustration of how much the brain is shaped like putty as we go along, for better or worse, even if it comes hardwired with certain things. So just the role of society itself in creating (or destroying) individual mental health can't be underestimated, as is evident looking at these comparisons.

 

I believe the hopeful thing is that the vast majority of us are more putty than concrete. And so putty can be reshaped.

 

I could go on and on about this, and I didn't mean to go on all sorts of tangents...but the point is that it's really a lot more complicated than just boiling it down to, "This person is a scumbag."

 

And maybe if you can see the complexity here, you'll be able to have a more inquisitive attitude towards bad people and those of bad character than a rageful one. Not because their bad actions should be excused in any way, but because a myriad of forces have come into play to make them the person they are. And chances are, they're not living a happy existence. And perhaps if they had been given a choice before being born about who they wanted to be, no one would choose to be a murderous pervert, a brutal dictator, a lying, deceiving sociopath, or even just a garden variety blind, selfish, greedy a-hole.

 

Just something to ponder.

 

Also could you please elaborate on this statement you made: "Your life's mission might be walking your talk about abhoring evil -- by refusing to contribute with your own mind. Because your mind is that representation of the whole, even if you transform only your own mind, you're representing a transformation of the whole"

 

Sure. What I meant was, since you abhor evil in others, you should abhor it, even in its beginning stages, within yourself. The seed of the evil you abhor is something like, "I wish my neighbor had gotten killed." No one is going to prosecute you in court for that. But that's where people who do end up in court in handcuffs started -- with thoughts like that, that germinated from that type of thinking. Same goes for thoughts like, "If this person is a jerk to me, I'll be a jerk back." That's how gang shootings and blood enemy retributions occur. And you'd agree this is one of those ugly sides of humanity, isn't it? Yet it all starts with, "If someone is bad to me, I'll be bad back."

 

When I said you should walk your talk by refusing to contribute with your own mind, I should have said, REFUSING TO CONTRIBUTE TO THAT EVIL WITH YOUR OWN MIND. I hope that's more clear. When I say that your mind is a representation of the whole, I'm referring to what I said above about all of us having all tendencies within us, just to different degrees. You have a bit of everything that is human in you, good and bad. So if you are angry, that represents the anger of humanity. When you are self-righteous, that represents the self-righteousness of the whole, of humanity as well. When you hate others, despise others, your mind is representing the hatred of all humanity. Basically, your mind is a microcosm of what humans are capable of doing, believing, and thinking, even with your own individual personality.

 

So what I'm suggesting is, make your mind the representation of humanity that you'd like to see more of. Reflect the kindness that is contained in the whole. Reflect the forgiveness that exists, that is contained in the whole. Harness patience, which is in short supply these days, and represent that aspect of humanity through your own mind. If you transform the evil/bad/negative thoughts you have -- you are, according to the Talmud and other ancient books or oral traditions passed on by sages -- transforming the whole of humanity you are inseparable from, and are a mirror of.

 

But I wasn’t the first to say that. Gandhi, one of the icons of non-violence in world history, said, “Be the change you want to see in the world.”

 

I hope that made things a little more clear.

 

As I said...I think you have a sense of justice, and also empathy, but they are turned inside-out at this point. It'll be your task to turn those right-side out. But you do have to consciously choose this -- to at least say, this is what I want for myself and the small amount of time I'm given here on earth.

[itsallgrand]

Thank you TOV!!

 

That's exactly what I was looking for in my brain somewhere. Wasn't coming out right. But that is exactly it.

[Purple Turtle]

Wow thanks for taking the time to write all that tiredofvampires, I appreciate your words even though I may disagree with you in terms of my misanthropy against human beings not changing, lol. One thing to start is more of a clinical disagreement not philosophical one. As you can tell I have an interest in some of these "darker" topics such as violence, natural disasters, serial murder, mass murder, child murder, etc. Part of the reason I do is it shows what truly despicable animals human beings are and what they are capable of. What your leaving out in regard to serial killers especially is that many of these people were not abused when they were younger so what explains then being sexually aroused by raping and torturing people (I say people because some serial killers are gay) and then taking their lives away from them? THAT IS SICK beyond all imagination. Also in regard to the 15 year old who killed his parents and was crying in the audio tape I'm aware of that case myself and do you know what this country gave him as a punishment? They didn't give him the treatment and rehabilitation that he needed and then maybe released him after say 20 years or so (which I think would be a reasonable punishment provided he has changed and deemed not violent any more). They gave him LIFE IN PRISON W/O PAROLE. I'm so glad you brought up that incident because it allows me to make the larger point I'm trying to make. I mean we as a society as a system as a country are the ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that gives juveniles life in prison WITHOUT PAROLE. That to me is truly sick and only a sick country IMO would do something like that to people. That's why events like 9/11 and Sandy Hook make me happy, do you understand where I'm coming from now? We also lock up more people than any country IN THE WORLD (you can look that up), and many of them for non-violent drug offenses where the people if anything need HELP, not being locked in a prison cell. I have a cousin who was sentenced to a year in jail for marijuana possession and while he was there was raped while a prison guard watched and didn't step in. This is a disgusting evil country and it just upsets me how clueless most people are about this. I'll leave it at that.

[tiredofvampires]

I appreciate your words even though I may disagree with you in terms of my misanthropy against human beings not changing, lol.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that I think your misanthropy is going to change and you disagree?

 

One thing I should say is that I don't expect to change your mind about anything, given the dialogue on this thread. I'm just presenting relevant ideas, in case there is a desire to re-evaluate at some point.

 

You've presented some interesting contradictions. One major theme of your reply is, in fact, completely inconsistent with misanthropy, so you should be careful of losing your misanthropy ID card, lol. You are saying that one of the awful things in this society that you hate (misanthropic idea) is that we do not rehabilitate and treat people who do awful, jail-worthy things (things which you deem the awful innate nature of humans, so misanthropic idea), we just lock them up and throw away the key, creating the highest rate of incarceration in the world which is a tragic waste of human life and potential (NOT A MISANTHROPIC IDEA, BUT A PHILANTHROPIC IDEA.) Wanting people to be given proper treatment instead of letting them rot in jail is a humanitarian and philanthropic idea, and I share it with you.

 

So you would prefer to see people rehabilitated and reformed. So you believe it is possible for a person to turn around their life, and become a different sort of citizen, contributing and no longer "evil". Good, I agree, again. So then, that means human nature is not bad at core, is it? It's just gone awry when it's doing something bad. What you're saying is that there are essentially good people who do bad things, people who on large scales can be brought to see the light. So instead of clinging to a misanthropic view, perhaps you should take a more fair and balanced view. If people can amend their ways, there is hope yet for humankind. And its essential nature is not explained well or defined properly by these acts.

 

Then we get to the people who you say do "SICK" things like killing people and getting a sexual high from it, who didn't have bad childhoods. You've just given the very BEST defense of my argument that people like this do, in fact, have a serious clinical mental disorder. Because if they have a good environment, with nothing in their immediate life to cause them to go awry (as in the cases we just spoke of, above), then clearly no amount of teaching them morality can have helped them because the centers in their brains for that are defective. You've just made the perfect case for the genetically-wired psychopath, whose biological defects are probably beyond the hope of any social or medical intervention. And so I don't know where we disagree -- you say they are SICK. I said in my last posts that they are sick. So we completely agree. These people ARE profoundly sick. They have brain pathology that is so profound, it's unfixable by any known methods.

 

If you disagree with me on the clinical abnormalities of the brain, perhaps do some research on this. You will see that psychiatry has established these brain abnormalities exist. And it only makes sense. The brain is such a complex organ -- is it impossible that something could go wrong in the areas that affect violent behavior, sexual expression, and emotion such that this could be the presentation? Completely believable to me. If something can go wrong with the brain, it will. It's just that as I said, since the brain is the seat of morality, a failing in morality rather than biology will be blamed because the idea of medically explaining atrocious social behavior seems like some kind of absolution.

 

But, take a look at the science yourself and you'll see there is nothing to disagree with on it. This is not a matter of opinion but of facts. In ASPD+P (Anti Social Personality Disorder + Psychopathy), in particular, grey matter is missing in key areas of the brain that affect judgment and other areas that affect social and emotional processing are also morphologically different from normal control subjects.

 

If you believe that 15-year-old who killed his parents and went on a killing spree should be given another chance in life, despite what looks like evil at its worst, perhaps you should reconsider the causes and the reasons in other cases as well. Perhaps you should consider that in cases where people do sadistic things for pleasure and have no remorse, despite wonderful childhoods, that they were born with abnormalities that are unfixable, and what would you do with such people as a just solution/punishment? How do you punish cancer? That's mostly a rhetorical question.

 

I'm not saying that everyone who commits heinous crimes has the same brain disorder, or the same terrible prognosis, but in those other cases, as you point out, rehabilitation is possible because the brain in fact can learn new ways of dealing with the world.

 

I understand how you can hate the existence of sickness, but if we agree that some individuals are just hopelessly sick/ill, and other individuals have gone off course and can recover, then it hardly makes much sense or serves any purpose to condemn human nature as a whole, in either case.

 

In recognizing that bad humans can be reformed, you've made a case for abandoning misanthropy.

 

That's why events like 9/11 and Sandy Hook make me happy, do you understand where I'm coming from now?

 

No, I don't understand. I don't understand why if you hate the horrible things people do, you'd be happy they do them.

 

The only thing I can gather of this twisted logic is that you enjoy being proven right about the nature of humanity being depraved. And that in fact, you enjoy being right about this to the extent that you'd prefer humans stay evil and continue to do bad things, just to keep validating you.

 

To which I will just say, if you have that much need to be proven right about your opinion about humanity, maybe you're trying to find a personal cause in the absence of really knowing what to do with your life. It seems that you don't have much of a sense of purpose and hope for your own life -- so this is the only purpose you've found and you'd hate to let it go because....what else would you do with yourself and who would you be if not Professor Humankind Hater?

 

There is a blank in your life and this is the only way you've found to fill it.

 

That, I can understand. But continuing to want that, I have a tough time understanding.

 

I think as long as this is your full-time occupation and your identity over which you feel a proud sense of righteousness, this will be your precoccupation.

 

So maybe at some point you'll consider a career shift, as this career is not truly satisfying, it doesn't contribute something of benefit to society (as most armchair philosophers don't, however true some of their studies; at least not compared to people on the ground who are actively helping ex cons to start a new, reformed life outside prison), it perpetuates the mindset that causes the problems in the first place, and furthermore, your career happens to be non-paying, which is hindering you in many ways, such as not being able to move out to a house where a dog is not barking and you have more privacy.

 

Trust me (two words I almost never say on this site), there are far better ways of feeling validated and spending your time than gathering more supportive tragic data to prove your theories, Professor.

[tiredofvampires]

That's exactly what I was looking for in my brain somewhere. Wasn't coming out right. But that is exactly it.

 

And you pretty much got to the crux of it with this:

 

The antidote to helplessness...action.

 

The whole of the thread could be summed up with that.

 

Trust me (two words I almost never say on this site), there are far better ways of feeling validated and spending your time than gathering more supportive tragic data to prove your theories, Professor.

 

Since I ran out of the edit window, I'd like to just revise that to "more rewarding." More specific.