Touch...

[90_hour_sleep]

I have given him a mantra --- he was not a "good" hugger when we first got together --and he has become world class:

 

"Pat the dog, squeeze the girl".

 

lol. i like that.

 

so...i'm curious if it's changed him at all. have you noticed that he's warmer? does he seem happier? do you feel more connected? and can you trace at least some of that back to the touch phenomenon?

[mhowe]

lol. i like that.

 

so...i'm curious if it's changed him at all. have you noticed that he's warmer? does he seem happier? do you feel more connected? and can you trace at least some of that back to the touch phenomenon?

 

Yes -- he is more affectionate. When I give him a hug, he doesn't pull away -- he holds. Sometimes, as I pass him as I am putting in my earrings, he just holds out his arms for me to walk into.

 

Yes, his eyes light up when I walk in the room. Smiles w/ his whole face. Stops by more often (we do not live together).

 

The comment re: the hugging happened at beginning of relationship -- almost 3 yrs ago.

 

And he still laughs about "pat the dog, squeeze the girl".

[90_hour_sleep]

This is interesting to put it this way. It's one of those things that in way, is obvious, but in practical terms I often forget. Something to put on my radar now and put more effort into.

 

Yeah, sometimes I do run on a touch deficit and it IS very noticeable. I get really grumpy.

 

on the radar. that's a good way of putting it. kind of where i'm at, myself. more awareness...more effort. i've been stifling it for awhile...so it's going to take some effort.

 

grumpy grandy! ha. and what does grumpiness do for you in your life? i hesitate to throw around the word ''karma'' (because it's got some loose definitions in many places)...but grumpiness could be perceived as sowing the seeds of negative karma. cause and effect. nurture that...and in a sense, it's what you invite in. what if more touch contributes to counteracting that in some way?

 

just throwing thoughts out here. they may or may not have any relevance or meaning...

[90_hour_sleep]

Yes -- he is more affectionate. When I give him a hug, he doesn't pull away -- he holds. Sometimes, as I pass him as I am putting in my earrings, he just holds out his arms for me to walk into.

 

Yes, his eyes light up when I walk in the room. Smiles w/ his whole face. Stops by more often (we do not live together).

 

The comment re: the hugging happened at beginning of relationship -- almost 3 yrs ago.

 

And he still laughs about "pat the dog, squeeze the girl".

 

do you smile when you think about this? i feel a bit of warmth almost by proxy.

 

smiles with his whole face...maybe his entire body? i think you can feel that...when someone is in a full body smile.

 

not to get all philosophical here...but look at the impact you've had on one person's life...and by his associations, the impact you've had on COUNTLESS lives. the simplest gesture.

 

touch. there IS energy in touch.

[mhowe]

do you smile when you think about this? i feel a bit of warmth almost by proxy.

 

smiles with his whole face...maybe his entire body? i think you can feel that...when someone is in a full body smile.

 

not to get all philosophical here...but look at the impact you've had on one person's life...and by his associations, the impact you've had on COUNTLESS lives. the simplest gesture.

 

touch. there IS energy in touch.

 

I do -- everytime I think of it. And that is saying something, after 3 years. I truly believe that having him in my life has made me a better, happier person -- and I think he feels the same. His friends have commented to me....

[90_hour_sleep]

basic human needs. is it possible that touch is, in fact, a BASIC...HUMAN...NEED? i have to ask again... if it's not...then why do the majority of people pursue close, physically connected relationships. why do you we have an innate 'need' for sexual connection? why pursue connection at all? loneliness? the thing about loneliness is that we can almost always discover a way to feel lonely, even when we're surrounded by attention...love...relative affection...friendship. our loneliness is so integrally tied with the deeper connection of touch...with the physical component of intimacy. why do babies who lack touch on the most basic level often have developmental deficiencies? obviously many other variables to consider. i suppose i'm operating under a belief that it IS essential. so i've likely developed a new bias.

 

but...as someone who has operated at the other end of the spectrum, i feel i'm at least somewhat qualified to offer perspective. i don't take offense at all, quirky. i mentioned this earlier...but once upon a time i would've taken offense. my view of touch was that people who needed it were weak...dependent creatures. but i was missing something. my feeling was masked with a pride...a sense of power from feeling somehow immune to this weakness...this dependence on other people to sustain me in some way. something about that never sat right with me. i always resisted closeness (save for one or two who were closest to me). resisting that which i was actively pursuing? how counter-productive was that? amazing i attracted relationships into my life at all.

 

 

 

exactly. again, i can only offer my own experience...but this just clicks. it's a disconnect. profound loneliness. i'd have to reflect a bit on the nature of the fear. but it's there. no doubt about that. such a waste too...to be separated. at times, it inspires things which help. the disconnect can become the motivation for some greatness. that's the catch maybe. sometimes it brings about greatness. but i'd be inclined to believe that this is the exception rather than the norm. that from the bigger perspective, this separateness is far more destructive than beneficial when it is prolonged or sustained. don't get me wrong...it can be an essential aspect of growth. it offers contrast...and perspective. but it's impossible to miss the suffering that has arisen out of this delusion of separateness. profound suffering. it's tragic...it really is. so much pain.

 

it all comes back to connection doesn't it. community.

 

i can't argue with my own experience. the more connected i feel to the world around me...the people...the environment...the various energies...the more i feel a sustained sense of happiness...or peace...or whatever it is. i'm growing to appreciate that touch is a part of this. not always essential...but when it comes to the deeper bonds...no doubt it's an essential element of the growth...the depth.

 

not irrelevant at all...

[90_hour_sleep]

I do -- everytime I think of it. And that is saying something, after 3 years. I truly believe that having him in my life has made me a better, happier person -- and I think he feels the same. His friends have commented to me....

 

so it's reciprocal...there's a balance. that's the feeling?

 

this made me think of journeynow's gratitude journal just now. how can there not be gratitude for something that causes so much general goodness? it really is infectious.

[90_hour_sleep]

Reminds me of the 5 languages of Love.

 

Physical touch is important to a lot of people while the other 4 languages are way more important.

 

may be time to investigate these love languages. it's a book? i've heard a lot about it around here.

 

we definitely have our needs. and they're all important...but often (always perhaps) to varying degrees. and it's helpful to make that consideration in the context of relationships.

 

what do you think about touch beyond the confines of romantic relationships, seeker? is it important to you? what's your language of love?

[mhowe]

When you learn to love life and appreciate the little miracles it offers, you then feel part of it cos you observe it, you know it inside out. When it flows freely through you eventually you become LIFE and then you're ONE with the world.

 

So true -- and the more you offer it back to the world, the more it come back to you. It's an amazing cycle.

[mhowe]

may be time to investigate these love languages. it's a book? i've heard a lot about it around here.

 

we definitely have our needs. and they're all important...but often (always perhaps) to varying degrees. and it's helpful to make that consideration in the context of relationships.

 

what do you think about touch beyond the confines of romantic relationships, seeker? is it important to you? what's your language of love?

 

Yes, by Dr. Chapman. It's very enlightening and makes a lot of sense.

[90_hour_sleep]

When you learn to love life and appreciate the little miracles it offers, you then feel part of it cos you observe it, you know it inside out. When it flows freely through you eventually you become LIFE and then you're ONE with the world.

 

So true -- and the more you offer it back to the world, the more it come back to you. It's an amazing cycle.

 

the two of you are on the same wavelength.

 

thanks for offering your perspective, mhowe.

[mhowe]

so it's reciprocal...there's a balance. that's the feeling?

 

this made me think of journeynow's gratitude journal just now. how can there not be gratitude for something that causes so much general goodness? it really is infectious.

 

I have never had such a feeling of authentic love. And previous to him, I have had relationships that lasted from 1.5 yrs to 8 yrs. Nothing comparabley close.

 

The feeling is (are): trust, compassion, attraction, respect, joy, lust.....I could go on and on. I guess the best way to put it:

 

He feels like home. MY souls' home.

[90_hour_sleep]

I have never had such a feeling of authentic love. And previous to him, I have had relationships that lasted from 1.5 yrs to 8 yrs. Nothing comparabley close.

 

The feeling is (are): trust, compassion, attraction, respect, joy, lust.....I could go on and on. I guess the best way to put it:

 

He feels like home. MY souls' home.

 

feels like home...

 

you know...that's the overwhelming consensus with people who seem to have found genuine connection. it's THE FIRST thing they reference. it's not just a feeling. it's not something external...an action...a belief...or anything tangible really. it's nothing that is dependent on anything other than an openness to experience another person. it doesn't change into something it's not the second something doesn't go ''my way''.

 

i never get tired of hearing of these experiences. it says a lot about who you are, i think...

[mhowe]

I think it is a place to strive for, but that being said -- there is no "one way" to get there. And I think that age, life experience and an open and trusting attitude to life and its gifts (many of which are hidden in adversity) allows one to find "home".

 

And I think you have to be comfortable there alone, before you can find a mate.

[poetryandlyrics]

Well, I guess I have to thank my culture for making me more blunt and direct. A lot of us in this culture are blunt, direct. It works for us. I say what I think (tho not disregarding anybody else), say what I want, ask for what I need. And yes, I'm grateful he does respond and adjusts.

 

I think the world needs to be more tighter together, conscious of each other, be a community again (but without any agenda to anything -- I find it pointless to be conscious of another in a negative way, rather just focus on being a community, not warring with each other). I fear the world will be on its path of apathy and with apathy, probably more kills and violence. When the world gets more vastly populated, and then divided to be away from each other... Away from touch, either in physical touch or spiritual (for a lack of a better word, just touch through the mind, feeling the connection through the soul) touch, I fear apathy. I know I can be apathic in some ways and they're due to my childhood, but they're not apathy to worry about. I worry about the consuming apathy.

 

You can do the quiz on the five love language online.

[poetryandlyrics]

Oh, and I do touch is needed in some ways. Even asexuals can have touch. Just doesn't have to be sexual but affectionate. I think the reason most people crave relationships is the intimacy it provides. And I don't mean sex, but the closeness. Knowing someone's mind, someone's fears and happiness, and vice versa. You feel the support in some ways, that someone really knows you and just accepts you, push you to do your best, is there when you need to refocus. Perhaps we just want partners, someone co of us to face the world together in intimacy with the connection of him/her knowing who you are and what you stand for with the connection of you knowing them the same. That's true intimacy.

[Coconut Twin]

Great thread starter, responses are interesting.

 

I think touch is a beautiful and profound thing. I appreciate and happily respond to hugs well , yet i would say that I do not crave or need it. I could literally spend weeks without human touch and am pretty content, but this does not mean that I don't enjoy being around human beings, I love being sociable but I also love being alone, love it!

 

I understand the healing benefits of touch though, as it has been used for patients, autistic children, people with mental disorders and so on. for centuries. It does have therapeutic qualities, but I believe there is a fine line between touch that one desires/needs and touch which is selfless. When we expect something back or a return on the investment, then one can feel at a loss and empty, like life is not worth living, they become totally dependent. On the otherhand, if we give not expecting to receive (which is why I like the free hug idea) we are doing it out of a greater or truer sense of love, ie, it's selfless.

 

I think the desire to be touched can cause suffering - it can block the way to clarity of mind, self awareness. enlightenment if nothing comes back or is returned, just my HO. Personally I feel when that need isn't there I can then just BE without constraints of such emotions.

 

It's also sad that we are in a society where human interaction has become so superficial. I remember at work, it was the end of the shift and everyone started hugging, I was like " whats happening? are we being made redundant?" lol… I didn't get what that's all about, they were those half hearted hugs, or maybe they were genuine, but I feel for me a hug would last longer than 1/2 a second lol

I don't think it is the be all and end all. I can get the same feeling of aliveness through just talking or as Shooting Star said, from nature.

[Cheetarah]

I don't think the desire to be touched(or contact) would result in suffering unless that person limits themselves. I mean...We're never going to run out of people, animals, or nature. If say someone says, I only feel alive and renewed from the touch of a romantic partner(or even just having a romantic partner)...Well...

 

I understand your point though, about being able to 'just be'.

[Coconut Twin]

Yes I agree. I meant the unhealthy and unbalanced sort.

[quirky]

So true -- and the more you offer it back to the world, the more it come back to you. It's an amazing cycle.

 

I totally agree with that.

 

He feels like home. MY souls' home.

 

I felt that with my ex..and I feel it with my best friends too.

 

But you can feel that just by being open to life on your own. We humans ARE life ourselves and the more we are part of it the more love we feel overall. Which is linked to another thing mhowe wrote

 

And I think you have to be comfortable there alone, before you can find a mate.

 

I don't want to talk about me but things are rather linked to our own experience. Around the time I was reading the Buscaglia books and opening up to life and love I also started learning the guitar and becoming creative, thus opening up on many levels. Then something strange happened. I slowly had a sense of rebirth. It's like I saw everything from the beginning as if I hadn't experienced it before. The root that was growing, then becoming a plant, a tree and then popping an orange. The sunset, the many layers of colour, all so beautiful. The sea, alll calm and then wild and how the sun would sparkle like little stars were resting there. The dawn, the beginning of the day and the birds chirping, saying hello to the world in their own way..And people..with their imperfections and their perfect moments, faces, laughter and each with their individual story and worry. The world became so big..I started fluctuating between being on top of the world, ecstatic while witnessing a miracle and then melancholic over realising the restraints of my mortality. Around that time, 2 years later I had observed the sky so much I was able to tell the time by 15 min out the most ! I was also very often crying out of joy.

 

I was very overwhelmed with life, like a glass of water overflowing non stop ! And since my family was a bit worried I talked to a doctor that reassuered me that I was just very lucky.

 

I guess where I am getting at is..being so in tune with life is not naive, noone actually ever took advantage of me. The only one that maybe slightly did was my ex..but it was because I was so inlove with our world. When you're in tune with life and people they can't really hurt you much because you can see it coming, you can sense it..

 

The thing with touch.. I felt throughout my life that some people perceive it as exposing themselves. Exposing a vulnerability and maybe subconsciously worrying what will happen if the other person knows that..? There are age long perceptions that people will take advantage of you if you show your frailty, if YOU give first, if you reveal..and what will you do then when you're 'out there', not guarded. Why even be guarded, from what? Truth is nothing terribly bad happens if this openess comes from a position of strength, on the contrary people open up to you even more and you have more chances of honest relationships.

 

It's intriguing that liking touch can be perceived as needy or weak. I mean unless it's desperate and selfish then it's just beautiful no? I wanted to clarify about my previous post..when I talked about touch I don't mean by anyone and anything or craving it like the air you breath..but more like being open to it. That's the bit I can't completely get my head around..why would someone not like it or be put off by it or be scared of it?

[itsallgrand]

QUirky, I do believe you are right about people feeling it as a vulnerability. I think it def IS a vulnerablity - it is the vulnerability of your physical self, and other parts of yourself too. It is the literally physical boundaries we create with people.

 

Oh, I strongly believe touch IS a basic human need!

 

And what does my grumpiness get me in my life? lol. Exactly what it seeks, which is to push people away and to not be touched! But, I'm learning to be more flexible with that.

 

A few things on the topic of touch comes to my mind. FIrst thing, a recent example in my own life of someone who is special to me but who has always had a rep for not wanting to be touched. My god mother. She has no children of her own and has in many ways treated me as her child. So I've had her there supporting and loving me my whole life. BUT - I never got hugs, or touches, or anything like that growing up from her (except if she was right pickled!). Even my own grandfather who I respected dearly and who loved me (knew it deeply) - there was one instance in my life I got a hug. And I had to risk it as a kid shortly before he passed. Him allowing me to touch him, hug him, is a very strong and special memory.

And people do not try to hug my godmom as a rule, and 'respect' her desire to not be touched. Not literally never touched, but very reserved and for very certain people only.

Well these last few years I have taken the initiative and have really started to understand and appreciate all she has done in my life, and how special she is to me, and so....I've been taking a lot more risks in being affectionate with her. And, its been surprising how positively she has responded to this. I can hug her now, touch her on the shoulder, tell her "I care about you". Seriously it may not seem like much but this was a huge breakthrough and added so much to my life and made me feel sooo good!

 

Yeah though in my immediate family growing up I was given lots of physical affection, in the larger scope of my family touch has been seen as a weakness of sort. THere is the whole tough guy routine with a lot of them. There is a lot of fear of being vulnerable. And there was a lot of abuse, neglect, bad stuff that happened in this family. And that is why, really. A lot of my family I feel is not really healed from former times, they carried it on and then passed this on to a lot of the younger generation too.

 

But I'm at an age and at a time in my life where I just don't care to perpetuate that anymore. In a past relationship, we used to joke about my grumpiness. He knew me well enough to understand that my pulling away was a defense mechanism. Actually loving up was and is the cure. To know it in your head is one thing though, to let someone "in" is another. I am not a touch-just-anyone sort of person.

 

And on a bigger scale, I've worked with some babies and children who have had a lot of neglect. These babies and kids just soak up the touch. Babies, kids, animals they have a deep intuitive understanding and honesty in their perceptions of touch. BUt you can see, visibly see and link up exactly, the type of neglect and abuse (lack of their need being met or violated) to their behaviors. Children who act out XYZ. Need XYZ. It's amazing really.

[90_hour_sleep]

cranny, quirky, itsallgrand...

 

to have the three of you in a room together!! good discussions would ensue. enjoy your dialogue.

 

grateful to everyone who has shared.

 

could be a coincidence...but i've noticed a conspicuous absence of male input here...

 

 

 

 

[Silverbirch]

I think that with touch - for me anyway - it has a lot to do with the energy which is coming from the person who gives the touch. That's how Reiki works of course, and some of that energy comes from something greater than the person who is giving the touch - if it is genuine.

 

As well as man in my life, I love grooming and rubbing my horses who all have their own individual preferences for touch. I'd be lost without my dog who spends a lot of time huddled into me and goes crazy with excitement when I come home from work late almost every night. I get lots of licks and hugs from him.

 

I am quite particular about who I will allow to touch me and who I will touch. There are some professional massage places near me where I won't go. One reason has been that masseuse will begin talking to the other workers there in a foreign language I do not understand or speak which makes me feel uncomfortable. Some people just have an energy which comes through their hands which I like more than others.

 

I love stroking my man's neck, and he loves it even more. Usually, when I do that, after a few seconds, his head drops and he stops speaking for a bit. I try not to take advantage of that though. It's amazing when he rubs my feet, but he doesn't need to do anything at all really because I love the feeling of just being cuddled up and feeling his body warmth. That's actually plenty for me and the rest is a bonus. He says that having his neck stroked (the back and sides) is the best therapy he has ever had. When we are in bed at night and I stroke his neck, sometimes he just mumbles all this weird stuff, like related to things he has been watching on television or parts of conversations from throughout the day. It's like left-over stuff just making it's way to the outside and being rid of I think. Cute and funny. Neither of us drink or use any drugs so it isn't related to those things.

 

Mhowe, that is so wonderful. I'm quite certain I might be feeling the same way.

[journeynow]

Touch, I miss it on so many levels. I had a longer post all written on different things that help but it disappeared. I'm glad you're all talking about touch and I'll see if I can catch up on all the posts.

[90_hour_sleep]

Touch, I miss it on so many levels. I had a longer post all written on different things that help but it disappeared. I'm glad you're all talking about touch and I'll see if I can catch up on all the posts.

 

no ''restore saved content'' option, jn?

 

i miss it too. kind of the only tangible thing i miss about being in one of those ''relationships''. of course there are loads of other things...but this one feels the most 'real' somehow.