Guys, tread carefully!

[Seraphim]

I am a risk taker too, but to me, it's about the impact of the risk (very high in this case) x probability (from what I observed this seems rather high too, a good 40% from personal experience). You love children and the such, so I feel that is way different than someone who doesn't want any.

 

Yes. However I can totally see someone saying, " listen I would not like to have kids so let's double up the birth control." what I can not get past is someone saying " I don't trust you so I am doubling up with birth control." if that is the case they can go find a person who is not offended and does not mind that.

[Blue Spiral]

The more I ponder it, the more I think a vasectomy is a good idea.

 

I've thought about the exact same thing.

[Fudgie]

Yeah, I don't like to take many risks, except for one rare occasions. Love, to me, just opening is very risky enough, I don't want to add to it. I will not marry without a pre-nup...and don't get me wrong, I am not the sort who just "walks away" from things. I believe that someone should divorce only if there is an affair, addiction, abuse (any kind...INCLUDING neglect that person refuses to resolve). I have walked away from all of my past relationships due to abuse/mistreatment or neglect. Not because I fell out of love or had met someone else.

 

That is just the person that I am. My boyfriend is the same way so I understand that, because I am that way. I just do not want to give it all without a safety net, because IF I fall, then I will be up poop creek without a paddle. I do not want that for myself, and I don't want that for my boyfriend. I want us to love and give and be together for long term, knowing that regardless of what happens, we will be okay, together or alone. I want him to be with me because he wants to, not because he took a risk with me and it would ruin his life/money to leave.

[Seraphim]

Interacting with any human for any reason is a risk though.

[Fudgie]

Interacting with any human for any reason is a risk though.

 

True, true. Heck, going into my car and driving is a *huge* risk. But I have to do it because I'm in college in another state. Still, I take precautions by having done driving courses, having good tires, checking my tires, getting my car checked, and I practice defensive driving.

 

I do the same thing with love. I know it's a risk but there are couple things I can do to minimize it. So I do.

[90_hour_sleep]

You can't just tell many women in a relationship that you'd just "feel more comfortable using a condom" without them questioning you why.

 

''i'd prefer to avoid the shat storm that is an unplanned pregnancy. seeing as how that is the main purpose for birth control, it seems reasonable to double our odds.''

 

i hope i never meet a woman like the one who wrote this article.

[DN]

The thing that irks me about this thread, is that it is done in a way which has absolutely no tact. It's making it about the women, where it should be about the man himself.

Did you read the article that sparked the thread? It was by a woman who admitted doing the very thing that peope are concerned about. How can that be making it about the women when it was a woman who wrote it about herself?

[Seraphim]

"A 2001 survey revealed that 42 per cent of women would lie about using contraception in order to get pregnant in spite of their partners’ wishes"

 

The above statement tells me it is one of those typical "anti woman" articles even if it is written by a woman. Women can also be anti women. I do not believe for ONE moment it is high as 42%. Statistics lie all the time and it depends on the slant of the survey and the slant of the surveyor. People can make numbers and facts fit into whatever they want.

 

I know myself I do not know any woman like this and nor do I have even one friend who has done this. So if the number is 42% , almost half my friends should have done this or considered it. So either statistics are lying or I am. I would swear my answer before any authority there is and I am sure I am not lying. So the number can not be 42%.

 

Someone should poll the ladies of ENA anonymously to see if they would do that.

[LeftBehind]

Statistics are like bikinis. They show a lot, but they don't show everything.

[Seraphim]

Really though I think someone should poll the ladies here.

[quantumst8]

The 42% isn't from a random sample. It's from a sample of people that requested paternity tests. If a person requests such a test, then they probably have a good reason, so it's not surprising that the stats are that high.

[Seraphim]

So from the DNA tests requested by guys they know that 42% of women had THOUGHT about it??????? That makes no sense. How can a DNA test tell you what someone THOUGHT? They give facts about paternity. They don't give an advance predictor of the thoughts of a majority of women.

 

I don't believe AT ALL that 42% of children are born to someone other than their claimed father. I can tell you 100% percent my mother's children are my father's children. My son is my husband's and my brother's children are his. All my gf's their children are their husband's. So somewhere even in my family there HAS to be one woman at least according to these statistics who is lying about the paternity of her child and I know that is categorically UNTRUE, and all of them would willingly have a DNA test to prove it.

[LeftBehind]

I think people are taking this in to the category of way too serious.

[Seraphim]

Well no, I always take a thread maligning women seriously. Come on, if someone put up a thread saying that 42% of men were scummy cheaters people would put forth all kinds of evidence to the contrariwise. But if 42% of women are having kids that are not their mate's then who are they having them with?? Must be 42% of equally scummy men having kids with someone other than their mates, right?

[LeftBehind]

Well no, I always take a thread maligning women seriously. Come on, if someone put up a thread saying that 42% of men were scummy cheaters people would put forth all kinds of evidence to the contrariwise. But if 42% of women are having kids that are not their mate's then who are they having them with?? Must be 42% of equally scummy men having kids with someone other than their mates, right?

 

I meant the thread in general. It's a message board on the internet. It's not that serious.

[Firiel]

We are working with two different sets of statistics here.

 

One is the percent of women who would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant without a SO's approval.

 

One is the percent of children who, when a paternity test was requested, were not fathered by the claimed man.

 

I don't recall which percent was which, but I think they were both just under 50%? The second makes sense-- if you trust that your partner didn't cheat on you, you aren't going to request a paternity test. So the majority of children were never tested and therefore are not included in the statistic.

 

The first is what Vic first reacted against-- that a large portion of women would basically trick their partner's into having children.

 

Just thought I should clarify. There seemed to be some confusion.

[Seraphim]

Yeah, I know it is a message board, but message boards do contain the thoughts of people. People are also telling me I am being negligent if I don't tell my son 42% of women are liars and plan to trap him.

[Seraphim]

We are working with two different sets of statistics here.

 

One is the percent of women who would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant without a SO's approval.

 

One is the percent of children who, when a paternity test was requested, were not fathered by the claimed man.

 

I don't recall which percent was which, but I think they were both just under 50%? The second makes sense-- if you trust that your partner didn't cheat on you, you aren't going to request a paternity test. So the majority of children were never tested and therefore are not included in the statistic.

 

The first is what Vic first reacted against-- that a large portion of women would basically trick their partner's into having children.

 

Just thought I should clarify. There seemed to be some confusion.

 

Yes, there are two different set of statistics here.

 

I think what we should also consider is 42% of women THOUGHT of it. It did not say they DID it. THOUGHT it and DID it are two very different things.

[Firiel]

Yes, there are two different set of statistics here.

 

I think what we should also consider is 42% of women THOUGHT of it. It did not say they DID it. THOUGHT it and DID it are two very different things.

 

It does say that they WOULD do it, but not that they DID do it...

 

Anyway, I created an ENA poll about it. We can do our own unofficial study.

[Seraphim]

It does say that they WOULD do it, but not that they DID do it...

 

Anyway, I created an ENA poll about it. We can do our own unofficial study.

 

Yeah, I think it is something that requires more than one statistic gathering.

[DN]

This thread was sparked by an article written by a woman about her attitudes and actions. The 42% figure was from another article. It's ridiculous frankly to say that this is an anti-woman thread. Women as a gender are not perfect, any more than men are, and yet it seems that any time any suggestion that some women might act in a bad way or do something less than honourable is taken by some as an 'anti-woman' thread and that all women and they themselves personally are being attacked. If it doesn't apply to you it isn't about you. If it doesn't say all women it isn't about all women. But it is fair comment to bring to the attention of people that this sort of thing occurs.

[Seraphim]

Yes, it does happen, but not at 42%. That is what I am talking about.

[DN]

link removed

 

Despite the stigma that will develop against men who take the pill, the pill will be a success. While most women are responsible and want to have children with a willing, committed partner, studies show that lack of reproductive control can be a major problem for men today. For example, the National Scruples and Lies Survey 2004 polled 5,000 women in the United Kingdom for That’s Life! magazine. According to that survey,

42% of women claim they would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant, regardless of the wishes of their partners.

[Seraphim]

It does not give the criteria in how the info was collected or the questions or anything though. One can not just accept statistics at face value and know nothing about how the study was done.

[Firiel]

My opinion about the article was that, on some level, the woman writing it was trying to justify her actions. It's clear that some women lie about birth control. It's awful, but it happens. I felt that the writer was ashamed of her actions, but instead of admitting that she was a worse partner than the average woman, she warns men that many if not most women will degrade themselves and their partners to this level. She makes generalizations to make herself feel better for her lies and deceitfulness.

 

Also important to note is that the man was right on the money and didn't trust that she was on the Pill. He insisted on using condoms and she TOOK THE CONDOM TO THE BATHROOM AND STOLE HIS SPERM. If a woman really wants to do a terrible thing, she will find a way to do it despite precautions you take, which I think is a good argument for cutting off a long-term relationship if you don't trust the other person instead of trying to place a band-aid on the lack of trust. It's not wrong not to trust someone, but my opinion is that if you can't trust them (regardless of if it's your own insecurities or their own negative personality traits that are causing it), you are better off to just end the relationship.