Guys, tread carefully!

[Seraphim]

Yes, that is what I am saying too. If you are doing it to avoid a pregnancy ok and someone is a little paranoid that it might fail, but if my husband said, " I think you would purposefully try and trap me so I am wearing this condom, he would not even need the condom, because the sex would not be coming his way.

[Firiel]

Saffron, this is an honest question (I don't mean it snarky at all), but would you use condoms in a long-term committed relationship on the chance that your partner may be cheating on you? Or do you view that differently? And if you do view it differently... why is that?

[Fudgie]

In my case, he would have wanted the double protection because if I were a fertile Myrtle like most people my age, he would not have been comfortable JUST trusting me alone with BC. So I guess you could argue it may have been "mistrust", not him just wanting to double up on protection.

 

The only thing that made him not want to use condoms in addition to BC was knowing from my family that I had an official diagnosis of being infertile, so he couldn't knock me up even if I WANTED him to.

 

With all the stories in the news and such, can you blame him? We go back 7 years too, so it's not like we just met prior to dating.

 

Personally, I think people get kind of irrational with kid desire and it gets dicey so I can't blame him for wanting that.

 

What bothers me about BC is that it's 99.9% effective. Even if you don't take it at the same time everyday or miss a pill, the effectivity is still really high. Yet women left and right are claiming to get pregnant on it. I've been told not to "trust" the Pill because one woman knows like 5 women who have gotten pregnant and "they took it EVERYDAY, RELIGIOUSLY!" Yeah, right. I call BS. It's easy to say "I'm on the pill but then I got knocked up..oh well!!! Might as well just have a baby!!!"

[Saffron_]

I have always used condoms in long term relationships. Always will.

[Seraphim]

Fudgie, then yes it is his mistrust. If you are ok with that then it is ok. For me no I would not be and I would abandon that relationship before we even got to the sex part.

[Saffron_]

 

Personally, I think people get kind of irrational with kid desire and it gets dicey so I can't blame him for wanting that.

 

What bothers me about BC is that it's 99.9% effective. Even if you don't take it at the same time everyday or miss a pill, the effectivity is still really high. Yet women left and right are claiming to get pregnant on it. I've been told not to "trust" the Pill because one woman knows like 5 women who have gotten pregnant and "they took it EVERYDAY, RELIGIOUSLY!" Yeah, right. I call BS. It's easy to say "I'm on the pill but then I got knocked up..oh well!!! Might as well just have a baby!!!"

 

Gotta agree with that part in bold.

 

As someone already said, you can never trust someone, even someone you've know for years 100% and I just think when it comes to something as life changing and premanent as having a child, if a guy vehemently does not want to become a father, he really ought to use a condom. Because if she does decide to trap him, and we've seen countless examples of deception all over this forum btw (from people who thought their spouses were trustworthy), he'll have no say over whether or not she keeps the baby.

 

As Fudgie says, the failure rate for the pill should be less than 1% but in reality, it's waaaay higher. If I was a guy, I wouldn't like the odds!

[Fudgie]

My past boyfriends were the same way, Vic. Until my current boyfriend, I did not have a man cum inside of me. My last boyfriend is my age and we know of people doing shady crap. My boyfriend does have issues with trust in that it takes him a very, very long time to really trust someone but he has told me that he has given me more than he has given anyone in terms of trust. We also have known people around us to sort of have that bio clock ticking, lose their mind, and make bad choices that they may not have otherwise, but they didn't think it through.

 

I think he is being smart and that is why I am with him. I understand his fear. He is glad that he does not have to fear with me.

[Seraphim]

That is not something I would live with though, being told to my face they felt I was not trustworthy even though I had proved I was. Nah, seems a waste to me and I would not want to live my life constantly having to "prove" my innocence. Like I said, being alone would be my preference to that.

 

At this point in my life I am not interested in jumping through hoops because someone is paranoid and can not trust someone who has proved themselves to be trustworthy

[Batya33]

The way I always saw it I was 100% transparent about what BC I was using and often used the pill plus condom and not because I was concerned about cheating -I was concerned I'd be the rare exception who was pregnant. In some cases we decided to just use the pill and both of us knew there was a small risk of pregnancy and agreed that if that happened we'd be fine with it and be potential parents. If I skipped a day on the pill by accident or was on antibiotics I told him right away.

[Firiel]

What bothers me about BC is that it's 99.9% effective. Even if you don't take it at the same time everyday or miss a pill, the effectivity is still really high. Yet women left and right are claiming to get pregnant on it. I've been told not to "trust" the Pill because one woman knows like 5 women who have gotten pregnant and "they took it EVERYDAY, RELIGIOUSLY!" Yeah, right. I call BS. It's easy to say "I'm on the pill but then I got knocked up..oh well!!! Might as well just have a baby!!!"

 

I think people screw up with the pill more than they admit for sure... but I also think there is a difference between screwing up and trapping people. I know that when I feel my protection may be at risk (i.e. I forget a pill during a later week or forget twice earlier in the month), I tell my husband and we double up. Not trusting someone to be responsible to me is more understandable than not trusting them to be honest. To me, the one is like, "Yeah, I'm not gonna loan you my car..." and the other is like, "Yeah, you may be cheating, so let's use condoms." So I also get doubling up because people screw up and forget to do important things even when they have alarms set for them ('cause it happens to me every once in a while).

 

I have always used condoms in long term relationships. Always will.

 

Then I think we really just have different views on how much to trust a permanent partner, and that's okay.

[Seraphim]

I agree, there is a difference between a screw up and being purposefully deceitful. It still brings me back to WHY do men have sex with women if they think they are purposefully deceitful . That makes no sense. If it just to have an orgasm, well then that makes men just as bad mannered.

[Fudgie]

That is not something I would live with though, being told to my face they felt I was not trustworthy even though I had proved I was. Nah, seems a waste to me and I would not want to live my life constantly having to "prove" my innocence. Like I said, being alone would be my preference to that.

 

At this point in my life I am not interested in jumping through hoops because someone is paranoid and can not trust someone who has proved themselves to be trustworthy

 

And that's okay, Vic, but I don't mind it. Outside of assuaging my boyfriend's worry in the beginning, I don't have to constantly "prove" my innocence. If I were fertile, then he'd want to use condoms too, and I'm cool with that. I don't want him to abandon his sense of self-protection just because he's in a LTR. I think that is unfair to ask.

 

I understand where my boyfriend is coming from. Many women can lose their minds over baby desire. He knows how I feel now but perhaps he's worried that my brain will succumb to hormone soup and I'll do something stupid and nutty. Women have done it before. It's more that than him thinking "Fudgie is evil and will trap me!" He feels just as strongly about not having kids as I do.

 

Oh well, we are just different, and that's okay. But I don't think my relationship is any less valuable, loving, or supportive as a result of this because we have the same views on it.

[Seraphim]

Oh I am not saying your relationship is not valuable or loving. A relationship is what a person makes of it and what they believe it to be. Just as someone does not understand my point of view on this, I don't understand theirs, that is all. A different way of seeing life. It is one that is pretty alien to me though and not one I could live with just as one could not live with mine.

[Saffron_]

I don't think all of these women are trying to "trap" their partners by missing the pill...In their minds that is! That's the thing. It is deception but I think they rationalise it and tell themselves "Well we're commited, we've been together a long time and he'll love the baby when it gets here". You hear it so many times it's almost a joke. So I don't think it matters how trustworthy your partner normally is. If they think they're doing something that will work out alright in the end, they might just decide to take a chance.

 

Most women I believe wouldn't pull such a stunt. But it does happen a little too frequently for it to be accidental IMHO.

[Fudgie]

I doon't think these women are trying to "trap" their partners by missing the pill. That's the thing. It is deception but I think they rationalise it and tell themselves "Well we're commited, we've been together a long time and he'll love the baby when it gets here". You hear it so many times it's almost a joke. So I don't think it matters how trustworthy your partner normally is. If they think they're doing something that will work out alright in the end, they might just decide to take a chance.

 

This is the point I was trying to make earlier and this is my boyfriend's reasoning as well. He knows that I would never actually intentionally harm him or do anything like that. But I've heard women say what you are saying and it's SCARY. Lots of rationalization. They do mean well, though it doesn't make it right or okay.

 

Vic, I agree, it's okay to have a different point of view. I think my desire to have no children (and his) factors in though. There are far, far too many stories out there of women who say they don't want kids and then go and end up changing their minds and getting conveniently pregnant. Maybe they wanted it all along, I don't know. To my boyfriend, a child, here or in the future, would not be a blessing in any case but something that he feel would ruin his life and bring a life into the world that shouldn't be here because of his bad genes (mine too). When you are in the minority when it comes to wanting children, people can and do devalue your position and some people may trap you inadvertently. I think it's different when you're a couple and both people are like "I want children in the future but not now".

[Firiel]

Fudgie, you have a good point about people who don't want kids getting "trapped." And I think that's where being intelligent about what relationship you get into beforehand can help avoid that. If I were married to a man who wanted kids and I didn't want kids, I would be much more worried about subterfuge to have a baby. But really, if I didn't kids why would I have committed my life to someone who did? Finding a more compatible partner to begin with could have solved that problem. People who are in relationships where they both don't want kids are going to have to trust their partners to be honest and communicate if that idea changes.

[Fudgie]

Fudgie, you have a good point about people who don't want kids getting "trapped." And I think that's where being intelligent about what relationship you get into beforehand can help avoid that. If I were married to a man who wanted kids and I didn't want kids, I would be much more worried about subterfuge to have a baby. But really, if I didn't kids why would I have committed my life to someone who did? Finding a more compatible partner to begin with could have solved that problem.

 

I agree! Finding a compatible partner is first and foremost.

 

However, I have had a man "switch" on me in the past (and he was older than me, go figure). Turns out he didn't really NOT want to have kids, and I think he was in love with me and went along with it, which is scary. Or he could have genuinely changed his mind, and had we slept together again, he may have rationalized to himself how "kids would be good for both Fudgie and I".

 

The above scenario happens a lot so I don't blame my boyfriend for being worried that I, like many women, will go the way of the majority. I am not as worried about him because, well, I have BC I can control. But with just a Pill, he has NO control at all, whatsoever. That is scary for a lot of people and it's okay to be scared.

 

To flip it, if I were fertile and there were a male BC pill, I can say I would still be worried myself. I don't think anyone or anything can assuage that worry.

[Seraphim]

Fudgie, you have a good point about people who don't want kids getting "trapped." And I think that's where being intelligent about what relationship you get into beforehand can help avoid that. If I were married to a man who wanted kids and I didn't want kids, I would be much more worried about subterfuge to have a baby. But really, if I didn't kids why would I have committed my life to someone who did? Finding a more compatible partner to begin with could have solved that problem.

 

That is what I am saying too, about finding a compatible partner and teaching my son to find such a person. That way he does not have to insult a 99.9 % percent good relationship for the .01 % that MIGHT happen.

 

What really bothered me was the premise that this thread started out with and that is that women are horrible deceitful people and yet men still want to have sex with them. That makes NO sense unless it is that men just want to have a sex partner no matter what, then it makes sense. At that point though both sexes look horrid.

[DN]

I wonder how many women who are offended that their partners may not trust them over something as important as this would be prepared to give that same trust to their partner if there were an effective birth control pill for men. No doubt on this thread they will say they would but that is easy to say - the proof will be when it is available.

[DN]

That is what I am saying too, about finding a compatible partner and teaching my son to find such a person. That way he does not have to insult a 99.9 % percent good relationship for the .01 % that MIGHT happen.

 

What really bothered me was the premise that this thread started out with and that is that women are horrible deceitful people and yet men still want to have sex with them. That makes NO sense unless it is that men just want to have a sex partner no matter what, then it makes sense. At that point though both sexes look horrid.

No - this thread started out because a woman wrote an article admitting that she was deliberately deceptive. The men she was with, one of whom was a husband, trusted her and were lucky she did not get pregnant despite what she did. Your son could be one of those men in the future.

[Seraphim]

We don't use bc, but if we did and he said he was I would assume he was.

[DN]

Well, as I mentioned, that is easy to say in a hypothetical. I suspect most women who did not want to get pregnant would be a tad more cautious in reality.

[Seraphim]

I wonder how many women who are offended that their partners may not trust them over something as important as this would be prepared to give that same trust to their partner if there were an effective birth control pill for men. No doubt on this thread they will say they would but that is easy to say - the proof will be when it is available.

 

My son loves children and wants children though.

[DN]

My son loves children and wants children though.

That is totally beside the point of this thread.

[Saffron_]

 

What really bothered me was the premise that this thread started out with and that is that women are horrible deceitful people.

 

No no. I don't think that's what this is about.