Guys, tread carefully!

[Seraphim]

Very good post. Yes, I agree she was looking to make herself look less evil by saying the majority of women were horrible along with her. You also mention another point I brought up, if you do not feel you can trust the person what the heck are you having sex with them for?

[quantumst8]

if you do not feel you can trust the person what the heck are you having sex with them for?

 

What if you don't feel you can trust anybody? Then your only option would be staying celibate for the rest of your life.

[OptomisticGirl]

I actually believe the 42% statistic. Why? Well when I was in HS the whole pregnancy pact really started. Had ex friends purposefully trap fellow classmates by not taking BC but telling them they did. I can recall 12 women from my graduating class that did this and I admit it. It's not just older women that do this. Young women do it too.

 

I personally will advise our sons if you don't want kids take it into your own hands. Don't trust her to be the only one in charge of the bc. Bring your own condoms and don't let her touch them before or after.

[Seraphim]

If you feel you can not trust anybody and you are having sex then one is only doing so for an orgasm. That is my opinion of it. They are not having a relationship for love or any other fonder emotion. It is only for a physical need.

 

Yes, if I felt I could not trust anyone on that level to not mess me over I would remain celibate.

[Saffron_]

It does say that they WOULD do it, but not that they DID do it...

 

Anyway, I created an ENA poll about it. We can do our own unofficial study.

 

Perhaps to make it more balanced and fair it'd be best to have a study where you ask men how many of them have been in relationships where their partner has had a pregnancy scare (or pregnancy) whilst on the pill. Of course, you probably won't get many responses on the pregnancy forum because not many men view it and the numbers wouldn't be able to show how many were genuine accidents and how many were intentional. But I'll bet the numbers are high.

[quantumst8]

I just don't view trust as a black or white thing. You can partially trust someone, or trust someone to a point. You can still have an emotional connection with someone, but accept that that person may not be 100% honest with you about everything. Being human means having flaws and fears and some people are afraid to be honest with others about certain things. It's a spectrum of many shades of gray.

[Saffron_]

Or to put it more simply:

Men, how many of you suspect a partner has tried to trap you by neglecting to take birth control? I'm not asking that on this thread btw, I'm just suggesting if you're gonna do one poll, you should do another aimed at men to make it more balanced

[Seraphim]

See, if people are fine with not trusting that is their life. They have to live it. Personally I would not get into bed with someone I had to wonder about to the point I had an inkling they were trying to work me over. That is a part of my self respect for myself.

 

The other thing is if you teach your children that there is no one they can trust sexually, what is their chance of developing trust in life? What is their chance of finding a good relationship with anyone once you tell them repeatedly there is no one they can trust.

[Saffron_]

I actually believe the 42% statistic. Why? Well when I was in HS the whole pregnancy pact really started. Had ex friends purposefully trap fellow classmates by not taking BC but telling them they did. I can recall 12 women from my graduating class that did this and I admit it. It's not just older women that do this. Young women do it too.

 

I personally will advise our sons if you don't want kids take it into your own hands. Don't trust her to be the only one in charge of the bc. Bring your own condoms and don't let her touch them before or after.

 

Women who do stuff like that give the rest of us a bad name, but you're right it most certainly does happen and it's not rare! If I ever have a son, I'll be telling him the same as you would tell yours.

 

You're right about it having no age barrier either. Young women sometimes do it to try and keep boyfriends, older women sometimes do it because they realise their chances for pregnancy are running out (like the woman in the article) but their partner's not willing. Women who are married and already have kids do it maybe because they want a third or fourth child and their partner doesn't. Or maybe they want a child of a particular gender and are desperate to try even if it means going against a partners wishes. Some do it to try and speed up a proposal or marriage. So many reasons. Or excuses, however you want to look at it.

[OptomisticGirl]

And I view the trust debate like this - I don't think every man is out to spike my drink or murder me but as a woman I was taught TOO think that. To not trust a drink that's handed to me by a stranger or to not let my own out of sight or to not walk alone at night... No, I don't trust men in the sense that they won't do those things (because some will!) and my personal safety trumps any hurt feelings a genuine guy who isn't out to do so feels when I don't accept a drink he has bought me, etc. i don't see that any different than a man protecting his right not to have kids.

[Seraphim]

Do you trust your husband OG? We are not talking about trusting a stranger, we are talking about trusting a long tern partner or wife or husband, ENTIRELY different than Joe Blow. Do you trust your husband to not mess you over sexually?

[OptomisticGirl]

Do you trust your husband OG? We are not talking about trusting a stranger, we are talking about trusting a long tern partner or wife or husband, ENTIRELY different than Joe Blow. Do you trust your husband to not mess you over sexually?

 

Yes, I do. And the post that started this whole 'trust' debate - Thorshammer's I believe - PLAINLY said when in a LTR he did trust the woman because that woman (his girlfriend) had the potential in other capacities to be the mother of his child.

[Seraphim]

Ok, if you trust your husband why would you tell your children to never trust someone?

 

Other people here have suggested to NEVER trust anyone not even a wife or husband or LT partner.

[Fudgie]

I think it's important to warn your child of the dangers out there, and that when that bio clock goes ticking, SOME women will go insane and get desperate enough for a child that they will have one without discussing it first.

 

It's not always about being evil and trying to "Trap" someone. in fact, most of the time, it's well-intentioned and the women think that they are doing the RIGHT thing for the relationship.

 

And that's why men should protect themselves, at least until the woman isn't fertile anymore or he gets the "snip".

[OptomisticGirl]

Ok, if you trust your husband why would you tell your children to never trust someone?

 

Other people here have suggested to NEVER trust anyone not even a wife or husband or LT partner.

 

Because their partners are not their father. Just as all men will not be like father and not all women will be like mother, it is not my place to tell them under what criteria to trust someone - only to advise as I would in a situation. As Fudgie said, it's naive not to warn your child of the possiable dangers of a woman/man trying to trap them in parenthood as it is naive for me not to tell my future daughters to walk by themselves at night or to accept drinks from stranger - to me, the 2 are linked.

[Seraphim]

There is over protecting too, to the point that someone can not even have a relationship because they are so paranoid. I would never never never tell my son almost half the women out there are Praying Mantis and they are out to get him. Can you imagine how horrifying that would be to someone young and looking to have a relationship? Gad. Instead why not say, " yes there are some bad people out there and here are the things some people do." and give them the skills to look for a proper mate. There is also saying, yes wear a condom to double protection if you are afraid of bc failure or sometimes people forget as opposed to , " son, women are scum and you should never trust one so take it all in your hands and wear a condom and then it is ok to have sex with her even if you don't trust her." To me that just sounds revolting.

[Seraphim]

Because their partners are not their father. Just as all men will not be like father and not all women will be like mother, it is not my place to tell them under what criteria to trust someone - only to advise as I would in a situation. As Fudgie said, it's naive not to warn your child of the possiable dangers of a woman/man trying to trap them in parenthood as it is naive for me not to tell my future daughters to walk by themselves at night or to accept drinks from stranger - to me, the 2 are linked.

 

So you would tell your son or daughter " yup they are scum but use a condom and then it is ok to have sex even if you will never truly trust them"?

[OptomisticGirl]

Why? As a young woman I was told there are dangerous men in the world. I remember plenty of assemblies on 'don't go without someone you don't know, don't accept candy, don't get in the car with strangers' because 'little suzie did and little suzie isn't here anymore. Little suzie had bad things happen to her'. I think sometimes the more direct approach is far better than sugar coating it. There's also such a thing as UNDER protecting a child.

[Fudgie]

Nobody mentioned "paranoia to the point of not being able to have a relationship". You're using hyperboles here that I did not say.

 

Please go back and read what I said. I said that I sincerely believe that *most* times that this happens, the women are well-intentioned and just desperate for a baby, not malacious and using a child as a pawn against the man. I in no way think that you should tell a child that "women are evil" or whatever you think I think I should say.

 

I would tell a child that *some* women/men are indeed distrustful, but that more importantly, women go insane when it comes to babies and are not evil but may not always think with a rational mind, so it's in his better interests to have SOME control over BC."

 

I think it's manipulative and disrespectful to expect that the man relinquishes all of his control over BC while in a relationship, in the name of "love". It is cruel to expect him to not want to be concerned for his personal safety and SOLELY put all the power into YOUR hands, just because he loves you. I see it as nothing more but a power play.

 

All that I mentioned above, I'm telling my Aspy/OCD/ADHD brother before he gets married, hell, before he gets engaged...and I would do that even if he were "normal". Hopefully he'll listen to me and I think he will, because he takes what I say seriously.

[OptomisticGirl]

So you would tell your son or daughter " yup they are scum but use a condom and then it is ok to have sex even if you will never truly trust them"?

 

Yes - because what my children chose as their criteria to have sex is not the same as mine. I would never have sex outside a relationsihp or if there was no love - my kids could feel differently. They could be okay with casual sex. And if so yes, I do believe they should have knowledge that there are people out in the world who do this.

[Seraphim]

There is a difference between talking about people you are married to and Joe Blow on the street. The thread is about your SO who is a long term mate not Mr J Q Stranger. So why are we talking about strangers? I am asking you if you would teach your child to not even trust their long term mate.

 

Also too if you trust your husband, then you are going against your own advice to your own child. To sell something successfully you have to believe in what you sell.

[quantumst8]

This thread has run its course. Thread closed.

[OptomisticGirl]

There is a difference between talking about people you are married to and Joe Blow on the street. The thread is about your SO who is a long term mate not Mr J Q Stranger. So why are we talking about strangers? I am asking you if you would teach your child to not even trust their long term mate.

 

This the fact you can't accept Vic - you can't TEACH trust. As many values as we instill in our kids and hope they continue with and as much trust as we give them, that isn't something you can't teach. Trust is earned. Simply because you are raised with trust doesn't mean you are going to get it from EVERY SINGLE PERSON. That's completely naive. Obviously everyone has their own definition of a relationship and what goes on it - some are okay with porn, some aren't, some couples have an open relationship, some don't - I just see this as another shade to the relationship scale. I think people who don't use BC and engaged in sex but don't want a baby are CRAZY but it's their life.

 

Whether my child trusts their long term mate is up to my child, not me. Will I teach my kids that there are bad people in this world and that some people will try to hurt them intentionally, both emotionally and phsycailly? You betcha ya. I'd rather they be prepared and know what can happen and then make decisions along the way than be blind sided by something and looking at me going, "You never told me this could happen!" But again, I'm the parent who wont have a problem with handing my kid a condom.

[Seraphim]

What do you mean you can't teach trust? Of course you teach trust.

[Saffron_]

There is also saying, yes wear a condom to double protection if you are afraid of bc failure or sometimes people forget as opposed to , " son, women are scum and you should never trust one so take it all in your hands and wear a condom and then it is ok to have sex with her even if you don't trust her." To me that just sounds revolting.

 

I can see that the things written on this thread are starting to get twisted. It's a real shame when that happens because it ends usually with the thread being closed. Nobody has said that women are scum and are not to be trusted.