Guys, tread carefully!

[DN]

I think it's horrible that some women do this... but if my husband told me he didn't trust that I was on the pill, I'd be FURIOUS. By saying that, he'd be saying that I'm a liar, selfish, lazy, and don't care about his dreams. I don't need to be with someone who thinks I'm all those things. It'd be like me requiring condom use because I can't be sure he's not cheating on me.

 

It'd be different if we were in a short-term relationship or not a relationship at all, and I definitely think guys should be wary in those cases. But if you don't trust your long-term partner... then birth control is just a band-aid to a bigger underlying issue.

The problem is that the article shows that many women are not to be trusted - and it this sort of reaction that puts men in a Catch22 position. There partners will get really angry at the lack of trust but how are you to tell whether it is justified or feigned anger?

 

When people marry there is trust - you trust that your partner won't cheat or leave you. But the divorce rate doesn't justify that trust and what people are saying, as are you, is that "those women might have fooled their partners and they are untrustworthy but how dare you suggest I might be?|"

 

As someone else said - this is not a gender issue per se - I know of men who have lied about such things. They say they have had a vasectomy when they haven't (or have not when they have); or they swear that if their partner gets pregnant they will stand by her - and then don't.

 

Pregnancy takes two people and while people have a motivation to lie and be untrustworthy, it is reckless to assume a partner won't, and it is unfair to expect that a partner should trust you beyond anyone else - it may not be romantic but too many people have been badly burned to trust in romance.

[Seraphim]

But there is NO romance without trust DN. There is NO marriage without trust, there is NO relationship without trust. If that is the state of men these days that they believe this about women I want nothing to do with them much less have sex with them.

 

This is what men think and yet they still have sex? Doesn't say much for men does it?

[quantumst8]

I think it's horrible that some women do this... but if my husband told me he didn't trust that I was on the pill, I'd be FURIOUS. By saying that, he'd be saying that I'm a liar, selfish, lazy, and don't care about his dreams.

 

I don't think he'd be saying that. He'd be saying there's a small possibility that love has blinded him and that you may not be the person he hopes you are.

 

No one can really know for sure who another person is. People say they know for sure, but since some of those people are wrong every day, then that proves people can't really know for sure.

 

But there is NO romance without trust DN. There is NO marriage without trust, there is NO relationship without trust. If that is the state of men these days that they believe this about women I want nothing to do with them much less have sex with them.

 

This is what men think and yet they still have sex? Doesn't say much for men does it?

 

Of course you need trust for those things. But trust and absolute trust are two different things. Absolute trust is saying that without any doubt, you know for a certainty the inner workings of another person. I'm sorry, but that's an illusion. No one knows that about anyone. Not a single person alive.

 

If I sleep with someone I care deeply about, I can be 99.99% certain that person would not screw me over. But people win the Powerball, lightning strikes in stairwells, and trusted lovers screw over the ones that love them--because even a small probability means it can happen.

[Firiel]

So do you use condoms in your relationship because you cannot trust your wife to remain faithful to you and she cannot trust you to remain faithful to her? I realize that people can (and will!) get burned by loving and trusting, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't love and trust someone who has shown themselves time and time again for years to be a trustworthy person. Often, there are red flags when someone is not trustworthy.

[Seraphim]

It does not say much for people who have sex with people they do not trust AND tell them they do not trust but they still want to have sex? Uh? I would rather never have sex again then have someone tell me, " you know, experience tells me women are tarts and they are cheats and they will get pregnant to trap you, so would I think you are a lying slag so I am going to wear this condom ok?" Bleck, no thanks. If that is what men really think, if I ever got divorced I would never touch another man again ever.

[DN]

Why do people always take these things so personally as if they are somehow being insulted. This is a simple matter of common sense and self-protection and it is silly for people to put themselves in jeopardy based on some silly romantic notion. It is because of that attitude that other people are able to pull these stunts in the first place. It's childlike to believe that some people will never do bad things and that you, or anyone else, is able to tell the difference.

 

This is one reason why the divorce rate is so high. I can't believe people would give their kids the advice I am seeing here.

[Seraphim]

Actually I am not taking it personally, I am just saying it does not meet with how I want a relationship to work or what I expect from one. So as long as I know this is how a lot of men really think if I ever got divorced I would just avoid them because it seems prudent to do so.

[DN]

Actually I am not taking it personally, I am just saying it does not meet with how I want a relationship to work or what I expect from one. So as long as I know this is how a lot of men really think if I ever got divorced I would just avoid them because it seems prudent to do so.

Like I said, come back in a few years and tell me if you would still advise your son in that way. I sincerely hope not for his sake.

[Seraphim]

As I said, he feels sex is for marriage, and he also feels casual relationships are not for him and nor is casual sex. He sees sex as something you only give to someone you intend to marry or are married to. If you do not trust the person you marry you might as well not be married. Knowing the environment he is raised in and how he is, I don't think casual bed hopping is going to be his thing.

[DN]

As for my own experience:

 

when my wife and I married we decided when we wanted kids and how many. Once our two daughters had been born, there was talk about maybe trying for a son, my wife eventually decided she didn't want to go through another pregnancy and that was OK with me. I would have been OK with another but felt since it was her body that bore the children hers should be the decisive voice. Some time later confirmed that decision and had a tubal ligation. So we were always pretty much on the same page.

 

Had we not been, then I would have made different choices.

[DN]

As I said, he feels sex is for marriage, and he also feels casual relationships are not for him and nor is casual sex. He sees sex as something you only give to someone you intend to marry or are married to. If you do not trust the person you marry you might as well not be married. Knowing the environment he is raised in and how he is, I don't think casual bed hopping is going to be his thing.

And how old is he?

[Firiel]

I'm not taking it personally... I don't even want to be pregnant now. I'm just trying to understand the notion of not trusting your significant other. There are dangers to everything in the world. But there is only so much distrust/caution that a person can have without going insane. I'd advise people in short-term or non-committed relationships to not take another person at his/her word in regards to birth control, and I'd advise people in long-term relationships to notice if there are red flags that the other person may be wanting to have children more than is healthy.

 

At some point, though, it really gets ridiculous. I mean, imagine a married couple who doesn't want kids yet...

 

Wife: No, we need to use my condom. You might have poked a hole in yours.

Husband: YOU might have poked a hole in YOURS!

Wife: Let's just go to the store and buy a new pack... again.

Husband: Maybe that's what you want to happen! What if you tampered with one of the boxes? I get to choose which one we buy!

 

...ad infinitum...

[DN]

Let's not take this to silly lengths, this is a serious issue and should be taken seriously.

[Seraphim]

Right now he is 14. Being raised in a religious atmosphere and in a religious school that is his influence. He is very very modest and won't even change for gym in front of other people. He feels one's body and sex is for showing love to the person you marry or intend to marry. Those are his words. He might change, but knowing him and how set in stone many of his ideas are I do not feel that this will change. But either way I would never advise him to have sex with someone he did not trust nor would I teach him that women are horrible people you can not trust. As I do not teach him men are horrible people you can not trust even though that is my experience from childhood until I was 20.

[DN]

Try again when he is older.

[Seraphim]

I know my own child though. I do not want to send him into the world thinking it is full of cheats and horrible people. How is that helpful to him? Yes, there are SOME people like that, but to tell him to trust no one is just horrible.

[Firiel]

Let's not take this to silly lengths, this is a serious issue and should be taken seriously.

 

I just extended the idea. I mean, if a woman is willing to steal a condom for its sperm, she'd be willing to poke a hole in the condom given a chance. So if a husband and wife each believed the other capable of that, why shouldn't the above scene (edited a bit for ridiculousness) happen?

[DN]

I know my own child though. I do not want to send him into the world thinking it is full of cheats and horrible people. How is that helpful to him? Yes, there are SOME people like that, but to tell him to trust no one is just horrible.

There is a middle course.

 

"Trust but verify". You can look that quote up.

[Seraphim]

Yes, there is a middle course. But telling your child to never trust their very special SO and to wear a condom because you know what they might be untrustworthy and to tell them you think there is a chance they might be untrustworthy and this is why you are doing it is not middle of road.

 

I mean should I tell my husband tonight, " dear, there is a .01% chance you could have been a cheat so would you mind wearing a condom from now on?" That might not go over too well and I could see why he would be REALLY insulted.

[Fudgie]

I sort of side with DN on this one.

 

Most of the times, I don't think it's outright malicious. Many times, it's the woman thinking that she really wants a baby, and thinks it's best for her, him, and the relationship to have, and it's just the right "time" so she may lapse on her BC and get pregnant. It's more about that then "trapping".

 

All men need to be aware of this. They need to be aware that yes, there are evil women out there who think of nothing of trapping men with babies, but most women want kids and have STRONG ticking biological clocks that may make them act irrationally and they may make the wrong choice in going off BC, and getting pregnant without talking about it first because they get it into their heads that babies the best thing right now for them and the guy. It's wrong.

 

I've heard of WAYYYYYY too many horror stories and I think that it's right for both people to feel comfortable protecting themselves and not relying on one person. You never know.

 

I feel like a bit of a hypocrite though. I'm on my BC and have been told I'm infertile, and my boyfriend and I don't use condoms. He has known about my issues for years prior though and knows how strongly I feel about not having a kid. We made an agreement that if I got pregnant by some miracle, I'd abort. So I guess I am the one "in charge" of the BC but I have ALWAYS ALWAYS told him that if he wanted to use condoms, fine. I don't like condoms because of how they feel but I would not be offended. He has a RIGHT to want to protect himself.

 

He has told me that if I weren't infertile (and he knows this for a fact, my father has talked about it) that he would NOT just use BC with me, it would be BC plus condoms. I just don't see how I could be offended by this.

 

The first several times we had sex, he made me go get a pregnancy test done the next week. A little silly, I felt, but I did it anyway because I wanted him to know that he could trust me and know that I was being safe and careful. And I have been. I've taken probably a total of 10 pregnancy tests already (most were free, through the college, nurses kept giving me looks and I was just like "please, this is for my boyfriend.")

 

I'm honoured that my boyfriend trusts me enough to not use condoms with me, but if he were uncomfortable and wanted me to use another form of BC (like wanting me to have an IUD - can't fake that) or wanted to use condoms, then I would respect his choice. I am glad that he was initially concerned about things and we got to talk a lot about it. I did not take it as a sign of "mistrust" at all. He's a smart guy and he was being careful.

[DN]

Yes, there is a middle course. But telling your child to never trust their very special SO and to wear a condom because you know what they might be untrustworthy and to tell them you think there is a chance they might be untrustworthy and this is why you are doing it is not middle of road.

 

I mean should I tell my husband tonight, " dear, there is a .01% chance you could have been a cheat so would you mind wearing a condom from now on?" That might not go over too well and I could see why he would be REALLY insulted.

OK - well, that is a choice you are making. Chances are it will be a good one. But don't assume that other people, including your son, will also make the right choice of who to trust - the evidence is too strong that too many people get it wrong.

[Seraphim]

But giving someone the right tools on how to make a good judgment call helps them make a good choice. Yes, you can not be 100% about everyone, but that does not mean you turn around and insult someone who has proved to you time and again they ARE trustworthy. That lands people out of a relationship too.

 

Still though this thread and some others have made me think. It really has. If I ever divorced and knowing how distrustful many men are I would just avoid all dating and sex because I would not want to go through distrustful people just to find a prince. To me it would not be worth it.

[Firiel]

But wanting to use them because you want double protection is different than wanting to use them because you think the other person would purposefully lie and cause a pregnancy. If my husband said, "Listen, we really can't have a kid, so I think we should use double protection" I would be okay with that. If he said, "Listen, you are forgetful... I'm worried you might forget the Pill... let's use condoms as well" I'd be a little offended/my pride would be hurt that he thought I was that silly, but it'd be okay. But if he was like, "You know how I promised to love and trust you? Yeah, well, I think you might trap me here with a baby" it'd be different.

 

Note that I am not talking about new relationships or non-committed sex. I have never had sex without being in a long-term, committed, forever-type relationship, and I suspect that if I did when I was still getting to know the person I'd want to make sure I was being personally responsible for birth control just in case (and would be fine if he felt the same way).

[DN]

But giving someone the right tools on how to make a good judgment call helps them make a good choice. Yes, you can not be 100% about everyone, but that does not mean you turn around and insult someone who has proved to you time and again they ARE trustworthy. That lands people out of a relationship too.

OK, last word on this because it's becoming repetitive. Too many women find themselves pregnant and too many men find themselves prospective fathers because they took too much on trust. Don't be one of them.

[Saffron_]

I rarely agree with DN but on this one I have to. I've known too many women who accidentaly on purpose fell pregnant whilst on the pill. All of them are/were in long term relationships with their partners. The men all accepted the pregnancies but none of them were exactly thrilled. One of the women (my friend since childhood) had set herself a timeframe for marriage and children. She'd told me many times over that she desperately wanted to be married by 25, have her first baby by 26 and be done having kids by 30. I don't think she cared whether the guy she was with was of the same opinion. Well a couple of months after her boyfriend of 5 years left (he didn't want marriage and kids yet and her second pregnancy scare finally prompted him to leave) she got with somebody else and less than 6 months later, just a few weeks short of her 26th birthday she's accidentally pregnant. When she emailed me to to tell me the news of her pregancy and engagement, I asked her how her bf proposed. She said to him "sugar, we're having a baby, we need to get a ring". Job done I s'pose.

 

.....Why am I friends with these people?