Ladies, how would you react if your man said this?

[Gracelove]

Hey There!

 

I understand why you would be bothered. It's a change that you don't understand. Also it could cause you problems, as you eluded to. If a guy decides to take liberities with her, or does something inappropriate, you'll be the one to have to defend her, possibly in a physical manner.

 

I understand why you're upset. If her clothes are really revealing, then that's not a great thing. What does she say when you talk to her about this? How do you approach her?

 

She could also be feeling stubborn. I don't think most women would like a man telling them what they can and can't wear. She could also be reluctant to change, if she's already gone out and spent a ton of money on this new wardrobe.

 

Maybe she's really enjoying all of the new attention she's getting. Maybe seeing you get upset makes her feel that you care.

 

She's got to be getting something out of it, otherwise she wouldn't bother.

 

I don't know what you can say to change her mind, but I really hope that she takes your feelings into consideration.

 

What do you think would happen if you acted like you were no longer bothered by her wardrobe? Do you think it's possibly just a phase?

[everyone]

Thanks everybody. I'm a little surprised some people think I'm in the wrong, but it's very interesting to hear. I'm a strong believer that when problems arise in relationships it's important to voice and discuss them so that you can find a solution together or at the very least understand why your partner is hurting, so I find it odd that people think I had no right to say this stuff to my GF.

 

I never told her what she could/couldn't do. I just told her that what she's doing makes me feel awkward and uncomfortable. The choice of what she does is entirely up to her. If she'd come home and said she had a new job as a lingerie or nude model I'd have been equally uncomfortable and I imagine people here would have agreed that I was justified in not liking it, so I don't see whats so different here. She's showing her body off far more than I feel comfortable with and it could destroy our relationship, so it's important she knows how I feel.

 

And sorry to everyone that asked me questions about me, her and our relationship, but like I said in my first post I'd prefer not to go down that road. I'm aware of my issues, am aware of hers and am aware of ours as a couple. What I was really keen to hear was whether you'd honestly choose revealing clothes over your BF, particularly when he's not dictating to you what you should do. He's just having a bout of insecurity and asking you to be considerate to that.

 

As much as one poster here said that women aren't helpless creatures that need protecting (which is of course true but is also a ridiculous conclusion to have come to when my post didn't even hint that I might feel that way) there's no denying that most women want to feel that their man will protect them if necessary, so she can't have it both ways. When a guy sees her at the bar and comes on far too strong with her, she has no problem with me stepping in and removing the problem, but when I see a guy staring down her top as if she's a pair of breasts on legs and I get annoyed by his disrespectful behaviour and also annoyed that she's kind of bringing it on herself, I don't think she has any right to get mad at me.

 

If she wants to leave me and choose low-cut tops over me, then she's of course more than welcome to do that. I know my value and if she thinks I'm not good enough for her, then it's best for us that we both separate and find someone better suited and more appreciative of us. I just know that if she decides to think that four or five tops and skirts out of the wardrobe full of clothes are more important than me, then she's the one with the problem, not me. Of course she could say the same of me, but since she asked me to stop wearing fitted shirts for the same reason and I did, she doesn't really have a leg to stand on now. If she'd have said "You can't wear those…I forbid it", I'd have told her to get lost, but since she said "You do look great but I hate how many women stare at your chest right in front of me now" I said no problem and went back to my usual wardrobe. No big deal! it's just a few pieces of cloth. Not an issue of human rights and freedoms. Just like with this situation.

 

Her whole issue with what I'm saying (which is maybe the same thing happening here with the women telling me I'm out of line) seems to be some knee-jerk feminist reaction, rather than a well thought out decision. It's not like I'm telling her what to do and saying she should wear a burka everywhere and stay at home cooking my dinner. I'm just saying that I don't like it when guys stare at her T&A and it happens a million times more often now that she wears this stuff, so I'd feel more comfortable if she didn't wear that stuff. Is that honestly wrong? And not in a "I as a woman have the right to do whatever I want" way. I mean in a "This is the real world and my man has never bossed me around once in all our years together and even now he's not bossing me around. He's just asking me to consider his insecurities". I find it a little ridiculous that people (including her) would honestly see that as a 1950's issue of feminine freedom, rather than what it really is.

[OptomisticGirl]

The point you are missing OP is no mattre what she's wearing, she will get stared at if she has a great body and is attractive. my work uniform covers everything and that's when I get hit on the MOST. And as you say if she wants to leave you and chose low-xut tops over you, she could tell you if your willing to walk away from her because of simply her wardrobe that she knows her value as well.

[everyone]

No offence but it's you that's missing the point, in two pretty big ways. Firstly, in my original post I already said that I have no problem when guys check her out, just as she has no problem when women check me out. There's just a huge difference in the way she gets checked out between when she dresses normally and when she shows it all off. One way is 'Wow, she's cute' while the other is 'Holy s**t…look at that rack'. One way is just understandable attention for being a beautiful woman. The other way is dressing a certain way in order to get even more attention. And attention of a very specific kind.

 

The second thing you're missing is that I also already said I'm aware that she could see my viewpoint as lacking value of her, just as much as I could say that she's doing that to me. The problem isn't what she wears though. It's that she has no intention of feeling compassion for my insecurity or doing anything to help me, even when I've already done the same for her when the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Asking something of me and then refusing to do the same favor for me when I ask is a pretty crappy thing to do, however you look at it. And the fact that so many women here completely fail to see that says quite a lot.

 

Edit: I just spotted this at the bottom of Crazyaboutdogs posts and thought it's very apt for this thread...

 

"A word to the kind: when I sense I'm hurting someone, I am. The fact that someone would be weak enough to tolerate that from me doesn't make me less responsible for my actions, it makes me more responsible"

[OptomisticGirl]

It's crappy but at the end of the day, everyone choses whether to bend to someone else or not. You chose to, she didn't. Now thenl ball is in your court about whether you can have a relationship with someone like that.

[Ms Darcy]

I think when you present a very narrow question, refuse to respond to general questions about the relationship, and assume your own gf's disagreement with your approach is a knee-jerk feminist reaction, I think you came expecting one type of answer that confirms your beliefs. I suspect there are deeper issues within this relationship for which this is just a symptom so it is impossible to look at it in a vacuum. That's why your comment about her possibly "leaving you and choosing low cut tops" seems disingenuous.

 

I also think there is a difference between telling someone how you feel and suggesting a course of action. If you would feel more comfortable if she did x instead of what she is doing that is less then simply stating your feelings; it is a request. You are moving towards ultimatum when stating the conditional 'if she thinks low cut tops are more important than me ..." And that to me gets to emotional blackmail/guilt territory and is not healthy.

 

I also think it's unfair to say that your gf would "bring on to herself" disrespectful behavior from men. They choose to do what they choose to do.

[everyone]

I know I kind of set myself up for a response like that but don't forget that I didn't come here asking for opinions on my relationship or what I should do. I asked what YOU (ie women on this forum) would do in this situation if your BF put you in this situation. To my knowledge she's not unhappy with any area of our relationship other than this and neither am I (based purely on the fact that she's never voiced any unhappiness to me and I haven't seen any signs of unhappiness other than this), which is why I said the part about "leaving me and choosing low cut tops" as to date I know of no other reason she'd want to leave.

 

Also, while you're right that there is a difference between telling someone how you feel and suggesting a course of action, that could be said of any problem in a relationship. You tell your partner how you feel about what's going on and you each think about what could be done to resolve the problem.

 

Whether you say "I don't like this. Please stop doing it" or you just say "I don't like this" and leave the "Please stop doing it" unsaid, the end result is still the same - there's a problem and at some point one of you or both of you are going to have to do something to change that problem or the relationship will get rockier.

 

And while you're also right that it could be seen as unfair to say that my GF would "bring on to herself" disrespectful behavior from men, that's also a little naive too and one of the same knee-jerk reactions I hear women say quite a lot and that tend to let them avoid the reality of the situation (this is purely based on my experience and not a blanket statement of all women, before that whole argument kicks off). If a person wears clothes that show no cleavage, then guys won't stare at the cleavage as it's not there to be seen. Sure some guys will still stare at her chest in general but it's always going to a lot less than if everything's on pretty obvious show. As soon as anyone - male or female - puts on clothes that show off their breasts, legs, chest muscles etc, it's not because they DON'T want people to look, is it? So she is bringing this on herself, just as much as I was when I wore fitted shirts. I chose to wear clothes that drew more attention to my body and so I ended up drawing more attention to my body...to say that it's not her responsibility in any way and it's all down to the guys that are looking is avoidance at its worst.

 

If I rephrase the question maybe that will help. If you had a guy you loved very much and that you'd been together for five years and he said to you what I've said, what would you do? Make a tiny sacrifice or lose him? And if he was doing something similar that made you feel awkward, would you handle it as flawlessly as you would expect him to?

 

And as for assuming the disagreement with my approach is a knee-jerk feminist reaction, I'd like to ask women here what else it is if not that, bearing in mind I've been clear that this is MY insecurity, I've made no judgement of her and I've just asked for help handling it. Why would any woman face this situation with a reaction like "You can't tell me what to do" unless she feels that I'm trying to control her life?

[DN]

If, at her request, you changed what you were wearing because she doesn't like the reaction you got from women then I do not see why she should not extend the same courtesy to you. Not to so is hypocritical whether you are a man or a woman. I have seen women on here complaining about what their partners wear - speedos is an example that springs to mind, so do not be influenced by people who are saying you are sexist - this has nothing to do with sexism. The bottom line here has nothing to do with feminism, over-protective males or whatever. It is simply a matter of what is important to you and to her and whether you can resolve any clash of opinion or not.

[OptomisticGirl]

To answer your new question - if my husband were willing to walk on something like this let him. But I don't ask my husband to change and he doesn't ask me to change.

[everyone]

Thanks DN. Nice to see someone hears where I'm coming from.

 

And OptomisticGirl, have you and your husband ever faced any issues that made one of you extremely uncomfortable and if so, how did you handle it without asking for any change on either part? You clearly handle problems exceptionally well, so maybe your experience could help me with mine.

[OptomisticGirl]

We have. It's not hard. People Can change but they have to WANT to. Take us. Im a complete control freak, my way or he highway person. My ex wanted me to change this because it's severely unhealthy. I chose not to. After our relationship ended I realize it was something I needed to work on and when I met my husband Im the one who wanted to change that about me, my husband didn't ask, I wanted to. It's something I deal with every day. My husband has the ability of devoid all emotion when making a decision about something. I love this quality about him but at times it can make him come accross as emotionless whereas I'm an emotional person. When we first got together I bulked at this and kept askig him o change it... OnE day I realized that wasn't fair and I either needed to take him for everything or nothing. all you can do is voice your opinion and let the other party make a decision. If thy don't make it in line with what you wanted then the ball is yours to figure out if you can handle that. If you changed for her and she didn't for you then you know we're she stands - now its your turn to make the call.

[PhilliesFan001]

To answer your question, if my boyfriend brought up the way I dressed I would simply say "That's nice, but it's my choice, not yours." If he has a problem with it, he can leave.

[Ms Darcy]

If I rephrase the question maybe that will help. If you had a guy you loved very much and that you'd been together for five years and he said to you what I've said, what would you do? Make a tiny sacrifice or lose him? And if he was doing something similar that made you feel awkward, would you handle it as flawlessly as you would expect him to?

 

I wouldn't consider changing my style of dress a tiny sacrifice and I would discuss it further with him. I would not want the assumption to be that I just need to do this 'one little thing' and all will be well. Overall, I take great care in thinking of my style. The second question is hard to answer because it assumes that I assume he is perfect and I don't expect that he is perfect in how he would handle the situation.

 

And as for assuming the disagreement with my approach is a knee-jerk feminist reaction, I'd like to ask women here what else it is if not that, bearing in mind I've been clear that this is MY insecurity, I've made no judgement of her and I've just asked for help handling it. Why would any woman face this situation with a reaction like "You can't tell me what to do" unless she feels that I'm trying to control her life?

 

The way you have phrased it to her may have sounded like you were telling her what to wear. People respond to the things that they hear.

[DN]

I am not sure why it seems that it is OK for her to not like the way you dress but not OK for you to not like the way she dresses - there seems to be a double standard going on here.

[everyone]

I agree DN. And the people that have answered my question have completely avoided the fact that I have not asked my GF to 'change her style'. I've asked her to change one tiny element of it for a very clear reason, just as she did with me. Again the whole attitude here seems packed full of childish knee-jerk 'you can't tell me what to do' reactions, rather than considered responses to a long-term partner's insecurities.

 

And it's just as interesting that people have also completely avoided my question about whether you'd have the same 'take it or leave it' mentality if you had a similar problem with your BF's behaviour, such as if he wanted to hang around with an ex, go to a strip club for a friend's bachelor party etc (or whatever else may make you irrationally feel insecure). Only Ms Darcy responded but still didn't answer the question and everyone else avoided answering whether they'd be fine with their BF saying to you 'leave me then' rather than help you with the situation you're in.

 

All in all a very depressing snapshot of how some women think IMO. The whole thing seems to be rife with a misguided need to stand up to your BF and tell him he can't tell you what to do, even when he isn't, and feel like you're empowering yourself when in fact you're completely weakening yourself. How sad that my GF seems to feel the same way.

 

And thanks OptomisticGirl for your post. There's a lot of truth in what you said but I still think my relationship may be over, as I refuse to be with someone that refuses to extend me the same courtesy's she expects from me.

 

Edit: I just noticed that this somewhat key question was also left unanswered "And as for assuming the disagreement with my approach is a knee-jerk feminist reaction, I'd like to ask women here what else it is if not that, bearing in mind I've been clear that this is MY insecurity, I've made no judgement of her and I've just asked for help handling it. Why would any woman face this situation with a reaction like "You can't tell me what to do" unless she feels that I'm trying to control her life?"

[Tanzi]

If someone said that they wanted me to change the way I dressed then I would initially be extremely offended but I know that I would eventually take a good look at the reasons why they would need to ask. I wouldn't change the way I dressed for anyone if it was a style to which I was accustomed to and, well, was basically "me" .... BUT .... that's a different matter entirely and, personally, I can't think of a reason why I would suddenly need to change the way I dressed. Yeah, I know I'm a 43 year old mother of 3 who has gone beyond they years of wanting to show off T&A (tho I still like dress sexy-in-a-classy-way when I go out) but I do feel that my boyfriend would be perfectly within his rights to, at least, wonder why I had started dressing up to the nines during a normal day at home where I am basically in baggy top and leggins scrubbing floors etc. I don't even bother wearing make-up half the time during the week. If I were to suddenly start wearing my best "bib and tucker" (as my nan used to call it and putting on make-up just to do the school run he would indeed have the right to suddenly feel concerned.

 

What I'm trying to say is that (I think) this is more to do with the reasons why she would need or want to change the way she dresses than the actual clothes she is wearing as such and it is more to do with the fact that she is seemingly wanting to get male attention that the fact that she is actually getting that male attention because ... to be fair ... you have never minded her being on the receiving end of male attention before and you don't know exactly what is going through these guys minds. Some may still only be thinking "wow, she's hot" as they do when she is dressed in more classier attire and some will think "s**t I want some of that" whether she is dressed classy OR tarty.

 

For anyone who has felt the need to change the way they dress then I would presume that they will also need to defend their choice, if challenged. She is right to defend her choice but whether or not that is something you should be concerned about depends on the reasons for that choice.

 

Have you actually asked her why she has changed the way she dresses as opposed to just telling her you don't like it? I know you don't want to give too much information away but more information would actually help decipher what could posibly be going on in your gf's mind. If she is still young then she could just be experimenting as she turns from a young lady into a real WOMAN. If she isn't so young then maybe she is seeing all these younger girls out and about and feeling a certain amount of pressure to look as good as they do ... or perhaps she just felt dowdy compared to other women the same age as her. Maybe she has seen you look at women who are showing their T&A off and wants you to look at her that way. Maybe she just wants to feel like a sexy desirable woman again instead of someone who has been in the same relationship for 5 years and stopped making an effort. Maybe she just wants to keep your relationship alive. Maybe she does want you to see that she is desirable to other men ... but not to arouse insecurities within you but to make you want her all the more. In short, this could be as much about her own insecurities as yours. I know some people will look at women who dress provactively as something sinister but that isn't usually the case. There could be a whole host of reasons.

 

Of course, on the flip side, there could be problems within your relationship that are causing her to "reach out" to other men, even if not physically. Maybe she doesn't feel that she is getting enough attention from you and it is causing her to feel the need to seek attention somehow else. Maybe she is feeling the need to spread her wings, to learn more about herself, and this is just the start of that.

 

I'm not sure whether or not you have said anywhere on this thread what reasons your gf has given for suddenly dressing in this way. I apologise if I have missed that somewhere but that could be useful information too.

 

All that said, I have to agree that your gf should, at the very least, try to hear you out when she herself has asked the same of you in the past.

[everyone]

Hi A-Little-Blue. Thanks for your post. While I had originally not wanted to go into detail about my situation, as I wanted to avoid long drawn out analysis of my relationship and focus this thread purely on what other women would do in this situation, I now see that I do need to provide some background here.

 

Have you actually asked her why she has changed the way she dresses as opposed to just telling her you don't like it?

Yes I have and she just said it was because she liked how it made her look and feel about herself and she was doing it 'for her' and not for anyone else. When I asked her if she's considered the fact that maybe she liked how it made her look and feel about herself because of the extra attention she was getting, she got very defensive and said that's not true at all and again said it's about how it makes her feel. This seemed to me to be the same type of avoidance I see other women here employing, but I have just kept my mouth shut about it for now.

 

As for why I think she's doing it, I think it's because she's getting bored of our relationship. And I don't mean necessarily bored of me or anything particular in our relationship, I just mean a little bored of the routine of being with the same guy for five years. She tells me all the time how much she loves me and how hot she still thinks I am and she's never voiced any doubts or unhappiness to me. I even saw an email she wrote to a friend last week (she wrote it in Word and left it open on the desktop and then went to work, so it was right there when I went to check my own emails, in case anyone wonders how I saw it. I saw my name right there multiple times, so how could I not read it?) and in the email she was telling her friend how amazing she thinks I am and how happy she is that she still loves me so much after so long together, but she also said she feels a little bored at times, even though she certainly doesn't want to leave me. I had no problem with this as I feel the same sometimes. Not in the sense that I'm unhappy…just a stupid 'grass is greener' kind of way, which I assume is how she feels.

 

I think this whole situation is about a mix of things. Firstly she's feeling a little bit bored of monogamy. Secondly she never knew her father or brothers and was rejected by both, so I sense that she puts a lot of stock in how men view her and she feels better when she gets male attention. And thirdly her ex-BF was a total control freak that pushed her around, abused her and dictated what she could and couldn't do. I think that all of these things combined are making her dig her heels in and risk losing me, rather than face the fact that maybe what I'm saying is not unacceptable and that she shouldn't judge me based on how other men have treated her. She should judge me based on how I've treated her for five years, which by all accounts (including hers) is very well.

 

Like I said earlier, the problem isn't what she wears, that was just the catalyst. The problem is her refusal to do exactly what she demanded of me previously, as well as her steadfast refusal to even consider that she may have some responsibility in this situation and also her misguided view that this is somehow empowering her and that I'm limiting her freedom, rather than seeing that maybe dressing like this is actually weakening her, as she's playing right into male stereotypes of women being eye-candy and she's feeling the need to increase her male sexual attention in order to feel good about herself, none of which are particularly strong or empowering gestures. And she may even lose the guy she loves because of it. Not a very well thought out decision on her part, if you ask me.

 

And thanks for saying that you agree that she should, at the very least, try to hear me out. Since she disagrees though, she may well find herself single very soon, as she's showing me very little respect, flexibility or consideration, which is made all the worse by the fact the shoe was recently on the other foot.

[Ms Darcy]

And the people that have answered my question have completely avoided the fact that I have not asked my GF to 'change her style'. I've asked her to change one tiny element of it for a very clear reason, just as she did with me. Again the whole attitude here seems packed full of childish knee-jerk 'you can't tell me what to do' reactions, rather than considered responses to a long-term partner's insecurities.

 

You asked the women to specifically put ourselves in another person's shoes. So if we are in the position of being asked to change an element of our style for some reason, how would we feel. In some cases we would not be OK with it.

 

From an objective view, both points of view are fine, but if you ask me how I would react I would say I would not be OK wih making the change.

 

So, indeed you are setting the women up to be unfair when we don't answer the way you want. What you cannot accept is that people are not accepting the premise "change one tiny element." That is your perception and not the other person's.

 

And it's just as interesting that people have also completely avoided my question about whether you'd have the same 'take it or leave it' mentality if you had a similar problem with your BF's behaviour, such as if he wanted to hang around with an ex, go to a strip club for a friend's bachelor party etc (or whatever else may make you irrationally feel insecure). Only Ms Darcy responded but still didn't answer the question and everyone else avoided answering whether they'd be fine with their BF saying to you 'leave me then' rather than help you with the situation you're in.

 

So now you are saying that it's irrational for a woman to feel insecure about a man to go to a strip club? I think you might want to reconsider this.

 

Again, I answered the question with the most applicable answer that could be given. If it were me, how would I react. I told you the response and you again just didn't like the answer. The only answer for you really, it seems, is to do what you want.

 

All in all a very depressing snapshot of how some women think IMO.

 

It's depressing when people don't do what you want. You have every right to think what you want.

 

Let's go back to the "is this important enough to end a relationship over" point. Assuming things are good as you say and this is how she chooses to dress, just one single point of disagreement then try to look at it rationally. She is doing something and you don't like it. Who is the actor here and who is the observer? If someone wants to continue a behavior/action that you may not like, you as the observer have to decide if it's worth ending the relationship over. You have said that it's not, right?, so then I think it makes sense for YOU to let it go.

 

And I would say this to any actor/observer situation regardless of gender. I actually had a bf who used to walk around in some attire that was pretty ridiculous to me sometimes but if there was no dress code I did not ever ask him to change. It was his choice of attire and though I mentioned something to him jokingly, that was him and he wasn't going to change. That's his right. And it's my right to have my opinion. It would have been easy for me to insist, but really it wasn't my body and it wasn't really material to the relationship. At some point if I thought his manner of dress got completely out of hand I would hae talked to him about how he was doing ... maybe there would be other issues going on. But if he morphed into wearing clothes I found unacceptable, then yes leaving him would have been on the table.

[everyone]

Thanks for your comments Ms. Darcy. I can't say I agree completely though.

 

What you cannot accept is that people are not accepting the premise "change one tiny element." That is your perception and not the other person's.

Well that's pretty clear isn't it? The question is, how is this not "one tiny element". Asking her to raise the neckline up a bit isn't the same as asking her to change her entire wardrobe, particularly as I've made a similar concession for her and made it more than clear that she's not at fault. I am. I would just like some help.

 

So now you are saying that it's irrational for a woman to feel insecure about a man to go to a strip club?

Absolutely! A guy going to a strip club because of commitments to a friends bachelor party doesn't mean he'll cheat and doesn't mean he even wants to go. All it means is he'll see more of another woman's body than you'd like. If you'd be uncomfortable with that, then why shouldn't I feel uncomfortable with other guys seeing more of my GF's body than I'd like? Both are equally based on nothing more than insecurity.

 

And again you've not answered why you feel I have no right to ask this of my GF and why it's not accurate to call her reaction a knee-jerk act and not based on anything other than misguided beliefs. I'd really like to know your thoughts, if you'd be prepared to help me out with that one, as I can't see it any other way right now.

 

I agree with some of the other stuff you said too though and you've given me plenty to consider. Thanks again.

[everyone]

It's depressing when people don't do what you want. You have every right to think what you want.

 

I'm sorry but this is just avoidance again. I'm not just some fool that only wants to hear agreement with what I'm saying. It's just that the reasons that have been given by the women here come accross as petulant foot-stamping and just saying "I have the right to do what I want and you can't tell me otherwise". Now obviously that's true of any of us, but how far would we get in our relationships if we all took that stance? Give and take is essential and it sounds like far too many people here (including my GF) are failing to see that. Either that or I'm missing something major that you're saying.

[OptomisticGirl]

The fact is your partner will not always give and take where YOU want them to. I don't tell my husband how to dress and he damn well won't tell me how to dress. If I wear something that makes him uncomfortable when I'm around him then I'll take measures to naked him comfortable only when he is around. Not wanting your girlfriend to wear a low cut neckline is a major insecurity - you basically don't trust her.

[everyone]

Not wanting your girlfriend to wear a low cut neckline is a major insecurity - you basically don't trust her.

Yes, I agree on the first part (as I've made more than abundantly clear throughout this entire thread) but not on the second part. I trust her completely and treat her as such (I'll provide details if need be). What I don't like is her need to show her body off all a sudden when she was hypocritically uncomfortable with me doing the same. How does everyone keep forgetting (or are choosing to ignore) that key point? And I'm continually staggered by how people don't see how a woman's need to show her body off isn't just as much about insecurity. One rule for women and another for men I'm assuming (ie. if she's insecure enough to want more male sexual attention to feel sexy and good about herself, then that's fine and not an insecurity, but if I don't like her need to do that then that's wrong and IS an insecurity). Truly ridiculous hypocrisy.

[OptomisticGirl]

The key point you keep missing OP is you CHOSE to not do something she didn't want you to do - that doesn't you get to pull the card 'well I did this for you, you should do this for me' card down the road. The simple fact is if she wants to wear low cut shirts she can! Not sure what you did that she didn't like but you didn't have to stop. You CHOSE to and now she's made the choice of continuing to do something you don't like. The ball is in your court - you either accept she isn't going to change it or leave her. You can't change someone unless they want to be changed, even something as simple as a low neck line. I wear low cut shirts - and while I'm insecure about my mid section, I am in no way insecure about my boobs or my butt. So no, it's not about being insecure to wear low cut things. I'm not compensating for a lack of anything, I simply want to be able to wear x shirt, no matter it's neckline. Any low cut shirt on me will show boobage so no, I would not wear a turtle neck every single day just because a man is uncomfortable with it. There is give and take in relationships but sometimes you have to realize simply because you gave doesn't mean the other person will and then it becomes your choice to stay or leave.

[Ms Darcy]

And again you've not answered why you feel I have no right to ask this of my GF and why it's not accurate to call her reaction a knee-jerk act and not based on anything other than misguided beliefs. I'd really like to know your thoughts, if you'd be prepared to help me out with that one, as I can't see it any other way right now.

 

I don't understand why you keep hearing things that aren't said. I can't help you if this is the way you respond to a difference of opinion. You can feel what you want and you can request what you want. She can do what she wants too.

 

And because you think something is misguided doesn't make them misguided.

 

But if you are admitting that your issue is based in insecurity, why are you asking her to change based on your insecurity? You should reflect on that.

 

I am not one for repeating; The answers are there. You aren't "listening" or taking them in.

[Ms Darcy]

I'm sorry but this is just avoidance again. I'm not just some fool that only wants to hear agreement with what I'm saying. It's just that the reasons that have been given by the women here come accross as petulant foot-stamping and just saying "I have the right to do what I want and you can't tell me otherwise". Now obviously that's true of any of us, but how far would we get in our relationships if we all took that stance? Give and take is essential and it sounds like far too many people here (including my GF) are failing to see that. Either that or I'm missing something major that you're saying.

 

You are giving circular reasoning. You are saying I want to hear valid arguments but give no reason why they are invalid. If it is not simple enough for you that she finds her dress appropriate and it is a difference of opinion then that is not for her to justify really. That is a reasonable enough counter. Saying something isn't reasonable does not make it unreasonable.

 

I really hope this is not how you communicate with your gf buddy.