Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Then sign it and prove it to him...if it is not about money sign a pre-nup stating what we get on our own within the boundaries of our relationship, then it is our own, and not each other's. What are you talking about? I have been married for 17 years and never had a pre nup. My brother has been married for 14 years and never had one either. I am not looking to sign anything. Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 EXACTLY, if it is not about money, just sign it. Why argue over money, if it is worth arguing over then it must be something you actually hold more importance to anyway. If someone signs a pre-nup...depending on the TERMS (NOT ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY PEOPLE) then they are waiving their rights to whatever assets, items, technically unimportant things when it comes to a relationship. This was the viewpoint DH and I held on the issue. It doesn't matter because it won't come into play. We signed it, and forgot about it. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I am willing to risk my wallet though. Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 This is why people who are okay with prenups should marry people with prenups and people who don't like them should marry those with that same view point. Ultimately, this is the answer..but things don't always work out according to plan..... Link to comment
petite Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Another thing that I want to say regarding your specific case OP. Since he already is in debt, he is a liability. It is up to you if you want to risk it, but if before marriage someone showed me that they can't manage finances then I'd probably have a different personal view. If my fiance was in debt due to bad decisions, I'd probably have a different view on our future. We actually discussed this thoroughly and always agreed that if worst came to worst we would never take what was not ours before the marriage. However, people do change. We would both be at a loss if either one decided to be nasty, if it came to a divorce, although I'd have a greater financial loss and that's a risk I am taking - but willingly. Even though he offered to sign a prenuptial and give me a piece of mind over my finances and perhaps even my family. Which I declined. It's my personal decision and one I decided upon. I strongly urge you to think about this, see what he thinks and make the right decision for you. Because as I said before it is a personal decision and one which varies from person to person. Link to comment
mhowe Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 to OP: You're looking at this correctly, especially the company shares (and the issue of woman-owned businesses). Please sit down with an estate planning atty to make sure you've covered what you need to cover. I am sure you love your intended, and he you. Take the money concept off the table, because if he is willing to sign a pre-nup, it means he's as invested in the relationship as you are. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I agree. And again, it seems counter productive to sign a prenup and then pay off his debts for him. Link to comment
civilservant Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 As a generalisation, those with money or standing to gain money appear to want prenups, and those that don't don't. Seems pretty obvious to me that there's a simple issue of protectionism there. Personally I wouldn't dream of signing one or suggesting it. Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I am willing to risk my wallet though. Then that's ok. As long as you are aware of what you are risking. I don't think everyone MUST have one, I think people need to consider ALL foreseeable consequences and act according to what outcomes they are willing to accept. I will say the one person I know who got completely fleeced in his divorce, while he resents the fact that she took half of everything he'd built before he even MET her, he never cries "why me?". He knows why, he let her talk him out of one saying "Asking me to sign a prenup, means you don't really love me!!!" Guess who left the marriage? Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Does anyone in enotalone have one themselves, and is your marriage rock solid? I have one, Vic doesn't We've both been married the same amount of time: 17 years. My marriage is solid so far, and I suspect Vic will say the same of hers. A prenup is no indicator of whether or not a marriage will succeed, in my view. However the refusal to sign one MAY be an indicator.... True, for some people it is simply a matter of principle (Vic, for example), but for others I think the point was made that the biggest objections tend to come from the people who have the most to gain, and the least to lose, in the absence of one. Link to comment
Weeb Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Also, I don't believe in joint accounts. I would not pool my money with my future husbands. We would both pay household expenses and pay for big purchases (shared) together. But I'm not pooling it. That's just asking for trouble. Haha I think I decided against joint accounts too when my sister tried to convince me we should get one (we own a house together and split bills). But she's just a mooch. Link to comment
blackhawks1287 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Then that's ok. As long as you are aware of what you are risking. I don't think everyone MUST have one, I think people need to consider ALL foreseeable consequences and act according to what outcomes they are willing to accept. I will say the one person I know who got completely fleeced in his divorce, while he resents the fact that she took half of everything he'd built before he even MET her, he never cries "why me?". He knows why, he let her talk him out of one saying "Asking me to sign a prenup, means you don't really love me!!!" Guess who left the marriage? This just makes me so depressed reading this. I mean he knew, but it happened anyway. It sucks, but that is life. I will also note that people that hear or get involved into situations like these and still don't sign one...then that purely naive and silly not to think about the bigger picture. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Why is having joint accounts asking for trouble? My husband and I have had one for 18 years. All the money goes together and things get paid. No trouble. Link to comment
Batya33 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I did not want one for myself and neither did my husband. Personally, I think it might be a good idea if someone has children from a previous marriage who they want to make sure are taken care of financially - obviously there are other ways to do that- trust funds,etc but a prenup is an option. Although I see the practicalities of prenups it makes me uneasy emotionally. Link to comment
blackhawks1287 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Why is having joint accounts asking for trouble? My husband and I have had one for 18 years. All the money goes together and things get paid. No trouble. You are basing this entirely off of your own situation...instead of the other much higher percentage of people that DO have problem. Link to comment
tresqua Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Why is having joint accounts asking for trouble? My husband and I have had one for 18 years. All the money goes together and things get paid. No trouble. If the two parties enter the marriage with a large disparity in assets, and they dump all the monies together in one account and they later divorce, the party with the larger premarital assets will be the big loser because in most jurisdictions once the funds are comingled they are treated as joint marital property. Same thing goes for property. If one spouse owns a home for example, and the mortgage payments for that home come out of the joint marital bank account, and the parties later divorce, you can bet the soon to be ex spouse who didn't own the home prior to the marriage will make the case that they own a chunk of it and they'd probably have a strong case even if they didn't really do anything to earn it. Most marriages fail, the higher income/asseted spouse is a fool to not protect themselves with a prenup and continuously taking precautions to keep funds separate during the marriage. It must be treated like a business deal unless you are truly able to accept the consequences down the line. Yes I speak from experience here in case you didn't figure that one out for yourself. PS You can have a joint marital account to pay bills with, that you both contribute your proportionate share based on income, in ADDITION to the separate bank accounts. I'd also keep credit cards separate as well. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 You are basing this entirely off of your own situation...instead of the other much higher percentage of people that DO have problem. What is wrong with using one's own experience that is what you know best right? Link to comment
tresqua Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 What is wrong with using one's own experience that is what you know best right? Because in this particular case, at least so far, your own experience which you describe as being successful and having joint bank accounts is not the "norm". Most marriages fail and having joint accounts muddies the waters. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Because in this particular case, at least so far, your own experience which you describe as being successful and having joint bank accounts is not the "norm". Most marriages fail and having joint accounts muddies the waters. It however does not negate my experience. Some marriages DON"T fail and do not have troubles with joint accounts and THAT view can have a voice as well. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I am sure the OP is plenty smart and she will figure out what is good for her specific relationship ciao Link to comment
Crazyaboutdogs Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think you have to look at the bigger picture..and the bigger picture is that many marriages fail and without the prenups, in many cases one or the other gets taken to the financial cleaners. It is not about going in there expecting the marriage to fail. It is about going in to a marriage with no way of ever being able to predict the future, be it 5 years from now or 30 years from now. How many people got married and are still in love with their partner but the partner walks out on them..and then the money fights begin. You could have the best of intentions but 5 years down the road your partner may have a change of mind about the marriage. You can't control what someone else will do in the future no matter how grand and glorious things are in the present. Just like you can't predict a major catastrophe that can ruin your home, which is why you get insurance. Link to comment
Huntress0527 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 If people are so worried about his money and my money then why bother to even get married in the first place? You need insurance for a car, house, health etc because are those things that people need. People don't need marriages. Like I said why not just have an LTR and co-habitat if people are so worried about protecting themselves? Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 If people are so worried about his money and my money then why bother to even get married in the first place? You need insurance for a car, house, health etc because are those things that people need. People don't need marriages. Like I said why not just have an LTR and co-habitat if people are so worried about protecting themselves? So, ah...marriage is about money? I didn't marry for money. I married to build a future together, which we have done for 17 years. And what we built together is ours, well and truly, and what was ours individually beforehand, we can choose to share, or protect for our children. I don't see what's so horrible about that. A prenup doesn't make the marriage any more about money than it already is. It simply draws a line in the sand that identifies the financial starting point of our life together. Link to comment
tattoobunnie Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 My mom has a trust set up so my father can't access it and are still happily married. Granted, he was the sole bread-winner in the beginning, over the past 35 years, he's a consistently bad gambler. And if she didn't set one up, he would have tried to sell their house, and her own company as well. In fact he secretly sold their life insurance policies, several multi-million dollar properties, sold the house I grew up in, and cashed in his pension, while making my mom pay for all the taxes. The comedy. So I think people do have such a bad connotation about pre-nups, really there's so much that can really happen. Link to comment
blackhawks1287 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 A prenup doesn't make the marriage any more about money than it already is. It simply draws a line in the sand that identifies the financial starting point of our life together. Exactly and nobody NEEDS a marriage, but we want it. We want it because we want to share our life with that person, but that does not mean share what we had before them...just like a normal relationship, if you are to share everything before and during what will you have IF there is an after? If you love and respect your partner man or woman a pre-nup is just a silly piece of paper... Link to comment
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