rocio Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 As far as I am aware, it takes both a man and a woman to create a baby. Why does the mother automatically get to choose what is right for *her* family, irrespective of the fathers feelings on the matter? What makes us automatically better qualified from the start to make that call? This has nothing to do with gender. If a mother chooses to disown her child and is insistent not to play a role in that child's life, then she is able to leave. No mother or father is ever forced to have a relationship with his or her child. This is a mother who is choosing to be a part of her child's life, and a father who is choosing to avoid being a parent with great force. THAT is why she needs to decide what is best for her family. In my opinion, gender never factored into this. Link to comment
rocio Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 OK but everyone is assuming this boy and that is what he is a boy, is going to be a bum loser all his life. What if he is not?? What then? He just got messed out of a valuable relationship for him and his son. I agree. I think she needs to leave the door open for him to have a relationship with his son if and when he is willing to do so. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 But her father doesnt have to, if she doesn't like him I'm sure she didn't ask him. Sweet deal or not, the child is being taken care. If the father wanted his rights so bad IMO he should have had the test dine at the hospital and if he was have his name out on the certificate - seeing as he did neither it doesn't seem like it's a big deal for him. My point IS it DOES matter who is doing the paying, it is not whether it is being covered or not, it is by WHOM it is being covered. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My point IS it DOES matter who is doing the paying, it is not whether it is being covered or not, it is by WHOM it is being covered. I just dint get why it does. The emotional well being of a child is far more important, IMO, than it having all the luxuries of life throw at it. So he pays child support and doenst want to see his son - then Bella has to explain to her child one day that daddy gave you money but didn't want to see him. Sorry but to me that is far worse for the child's emotional well being. Link to comment
rocio Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It's up to the courts to make that call, if it comes to that. If she chooses to take him to court, then yes the decision would be up to the court. However, she has no legal obligation to do so. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 My point IS it DOES matter who is doing the paying, it is not whether it is being covered or not, it is by WHOM it is being covered. Exactly! I'm pretty sure as well that if a mother doesn't receive money from the childs father then she's eligible for more benefits/tax credits. Surely better that the father covers the cost than the taxpayer. And yes, just because he's not a brilliant father now doesn't mean he'll always be this way. people change a lot in their 20's. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 If she chooses to take him to court, then yes the decision would be up to the court. However, she has no legal obligation to do so. You mean if he takes her to court over visitation. Link to comment
rocio Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You mean if he takes her to court over visitation. No, that wasn't what I meant. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I just dint get why it does. The emotional well being of a child is far more important, IMO, than it having all the luxuries of life throw at it. So he pays child support and doenst want to see his son - then Bella has to explain to her child one day that daddy gave you money but didn't want to see him. Sorry but to me that is far worse for the child's emotional well being. However you can not force the man to care at present. It is better to get the money than bupkus. Link to comment
Saffron_ Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I just dint get why it does. The emotional well being of a child is far more important, IMO, than it having all the luxuries of life throw at it. So he pays child support and doenst want to see his son - then Bella has to explain to her child one day that daddy gave you money but didn't want to see him. Sorry but to me that is far worse for the child's emotional well being. That makes no sense at all. Edit: But the apprentice is on so I'm gonna jump off this thread for now.... Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 However you can not force the man to care at present. It is better to get the money than bupkus. Most situations I would agree but if she doesn't want it, hey, she doesn't want it. I know many mothers trying to get child support out of fathers, if Bella can provide for him without wanting it more power to her. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 That makes no sense at all. Edit: But the apprentice is on so I'm gonna jump off this thread for now.... How it's more hurting the child? The child will realize the father is giving him money but wants nothing to do with him. So daddy will give me money but no love. I have seen it happen first hand - much better to have no support. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Most situations I would agree but if she doesn't want it, hey, she doesn't want it. I know many mothers trying to get child support out of fathers, if Bella can provide for him without wanting it more power to her. The thing is CAN she afford it? A man she does not even profess to love is already paying for her son's future education. Gift or not that is one BIG hefty gift of support. When you are a parent the idea is you are not supposed to have to count on support from all over to get your child by. YOU are supposed to do that. So if you get support from here and there and all over are you really affording your child? Or are you lucky you got support from your family cause otherwise you would be up the creek. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 How it's more hurting the child? The child will realize the father is giving him money but wants nothing to do with him. So daddy will give me money but no love. I have seen it happen first hand - much better to have no support. I would take it that my father cared enough to pay for my life. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I would take it that my father cared enough to pay for my life. But not want anything to do with you? The thing is CAN she afford it? A man she does not even profess to love is already paying for her son's future education. Gift or not that is one BIG hefty gift of support. When you are a parent the idea is you are not supposed to have to count on support from all over to get your child by. YOU are supposed to do that. So if you get support from here and there and all over are you really affording your child? Or are you lucky you got support from your family cause otherwise you would be up the creek. I dint classify education as a need that a parent HAS to pay for. Many do, as is their right, but I don't. My parents never paid for mine, all my support came off my own money or pell grants - does this mean my parents couldnt afford me? Of course not but again, that is under my belief that education is not a need a parent has to pay. Link to comment
BellaStranger Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 How it's more hurting the child? The child will realize the father is giving him money but wants nothing to do with him. So daddy will give me money but no love. I have seen it happen first hand - much better to have no support. This is EXACTLY how I grew up... I know how much it hurts to be thrown money at but have little love or support- that was my fathers tactic. And he didn't even do that till I was around 16!! My dads 'generous offer' to pay for my sons education is bourne out of guilt at never having provided for me... so I don't feel guilty at accepting it. It's just unfortunate for him that he can't buy my love after all these years...but I would love my son to have a good relationship with his grandpa! But yes, I will also protect him from him, cos I know what he is like!!! Back to a previous post- It's not actually my choice to have him off the certificate... It has to be done by next week- legally- and as he is currently denying paternity- it will HAVE to be without him on the certificate! I'm not backing anyone in to any corners and I consistently ask nothing of him apart from honesty and reliability... and before all this DNA business all I wanted was for him to be there for his son... I have never asked for anything else! Oh, and I can only apologise for displaying a wide spectrum of emotion from the beginning of this thread- I'm sure that's just human... Everyone else is discussing this from a removed position- this is actually my life...I'm bound to react emotionally and I appreciate the more rational opinions! Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 This is also the same man that when Bella was nine months pregnant would go off, drink and disappear for days at a time without leaving her a contact number in case she went into labor. He was clearly not interested even then. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You all are also not seeing he has a lot of years to grow up too. But you have decided he is always going to be this way and what is best. I truly hope it works out the way you want it to. It is not my son after all. I am just trying to give knowledge at having been raised by a mom who was single at times, and also working with children who have issues with parents and being in a very impoverished group and had mothers that were mostly single mothers.(and hearing these kids problems and wishes etc. and hearing all the drs and psychologists etc) Link to comment
FarthestEdge Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 This is EXACTLY how I grew up... I know how much it hurts to be thrown money at but have little love or support- that was my fathers tactic. And he didn't even do that till I was around 16!! ... Oh, and I can only apologise for displaying a wide spectrum of emotion from the beginning of this thread- I'm sure that's just human... Everyone else is discussing this from a removed position- this is actually my life...I'm bound to react emotionally and I appreciate the more rational opinions! How do you think it would feel to discover that your mother FORCED him out of your life because SHE decided he drank too much? You can't protect your child from being hurt by an absent parent. You CAN prevent him from being hurt that his MOTHER made that decision FOR HIM. And I get that it's confusing and upsetting and scary. But you need to make decisions when you are detached from these emotions. Don't act of out anger or disappointment in him, or make choices to prove anything to anyone. Link to comment
BellaStranger Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 I know he is still young- I'm only a couple of years older than him! But 16 year olds have babies and no one gets to say- 'I'm not ready for this, so I'm going to back out for a few years till I grow up, pay out a bit of money to keep my end in, and then I'll walk back in one day to a little fanfair and pick up where I left off!!' I don't think our child, when he's 10 years old and has never seen daddy regularly will accept 'daddy just wasn't mature enough when I was born so he went off to do some growing up first'! Oh... 'but it's okay, I've got 5 grand in a bank account'. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 How do you think it would feel to discover that your mother FORCED him out of your life because SHE decided he drank too much? You can't protect your child from being hurt by an absent parent. You CAN prevent him from being hurt that his MOTHER made that decision FOR HIM. That is what I am saying. My step sister will be facing this. She forced her son's father and grandparents out of his life. There was nothing wrong with the boy's father. She was just a mad 19 year old thinking she knew everything.Her son is 13 like my son. He thinks the beer guzzling loser who lays on her sofa is his father. Instead he is a guy who comes from a rich and well respected family. This is going to bite her HUGE when her son finds out, because he will. Someone in the family will mention it. Mr beer guzzler will mention it...there could be medical tests....any one of a million ways to find out. When he does he is going to hate his mother so much. Link to comment
Seraphim Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I know he is still young- I'm only a couple of years older than him! But 16 year olds have babies and no one gets to say- 'I'm not ready for this, so I'm going to back out for a few years till I grow up, pay out a bit of money to keep my end in, and then I'll walk back in one day to a little fanfair and pick up where I left off!!' I don't think our child, when he's 10 years old and has never seen daddy regularly will accept 'daddy just wasn't mature enough when I was born so he went off to do some growing up first'! Oh... 'but it's okay, I've got 5 grand in a bank account'. You may think money is all poo poo Bella, but what if you had NO support? What if you dad did not feel guilty? What if all of a sudden your dad says " know what...I am not giving another red cent and gee the money is mine and you do not think money is anything so I hope you don't mind if I take MY money back and you can pay for your own kid." what if you lose all your support? Will the money mean diddly then? Will the money be diddly when your son is screaming and dancing and crying because he can not have what the other kids have? No, it will break your heart Bella. I promise you. Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 That is what I am saying. My step sister will be facing this. She forced her son's father and grandparents out of his life. There was nothing wrong with the boy's father. She was just a mad 19 year old thinking she knew everything.Her son is 13 like my son. He thinks the beer guzzling loser who lays on her sofa is his father. Instead he is a guy who comes from a rich and well respected family. This is going to bite her HUGE when her son finds out, because he will. Someone in the family will mention it. Mr beer guzzler will mention it...there could be medical tests....any one of a million ways to find out. When he does he is going to hate his mother so much. To me that person is in the wrong, as the father had no nothing wrong. But as we said earlier in the thread, it's a fine line Bella has to walk between giving her son the chance to dislike his father and protecting him from a situation were he is around drinking. Link to comment
BellaStranger Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 How do you think it would feel to discover that your mother FORCED him out of your life because SHE decided he drank too much? You can't protect your child from being hurt by an absent parent. You CAN prevent him from being hurt that his MOTHER made that decision FOR HIM. And I get that it's confusing and upsetting and scary. But you need to make decisions when you are detached from these emotions. Don't act of out anger or disappointment in him, or make choices to prove anything to anyone. My mother DID protect us from out father, that's what I'm saying. He would consistently not show up to pick is up...or turn up 3/4 hours late...so she stopped him seeing us for a long time cos it caused us so much distress. He was also only allowed supervised visitation for a long time because she was worried about him taking us out of the country!! He never did...so you may say her fears were unfounded and she denied us a lot of time with our dad...but I can totally understand where she was coming from, feel she did the right thing and would do the same! Link to comment
OptomisticGirl Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 You may think money is all poo poo Bella, but what if you had NO support? What if you dad did not feel guilty? What if all of a sudden your dad says " know what...I am not giving another red cent and gee the money is mine and you do not think money is anything so I hope you don't mind if I take MY money back and you can pay for your own kid." what if you lose all your support? Will the money mean diddly then? Will the money be diddly when your son is screaming and dancing and crying because he can not have what the other kids have? No, it will break your heart Bella. I promise you. My brother is in this position and he is fine. My mom chose not having child support from my dad over my dad paying child support and having a right to see my brother because of the Hell my father's world is. He may not like it but he def dies nit recent my mother for her decision. Link to comment
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