Avoidant Love vs. Secure/Anxious Love

[Silverbirch]

I'm very interested to read the book. I read about the author at the link below, and given his background, I would have been surprised if he had accepted that the causes were purely biological. Given that he grew up in Israel where, as far as I know, much of the population would likely have multiplicit attachment more so than in Western culture.

 

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We only say One becasue in our culture, we are only taught to connect with One other person. If that is what we see when we're young, we simply accept it. If we were taught to be multiplicit, I'm more than certain we'd do just as well, though we'd be more aware of our feelings of being left out or more prone to being jealous when someone is openly spending time with someone who is not us.

 

A more appropriate set of terms may be, "100% of humans have a limbic system with the sole purpsoe of connecting with other people." Even avoidants have this system, and they have connected with another human being - themselves, or any multiplicity of internal characters.

[Silverbirch]

Absolutely they do. Since they don't "value" human connection (they have suppressed that), they have their dopamine delivered by NOT getting close and having casual sex (and/or affairs). Anthony Weiner is a prime example of an avoidant (he likely has NPD also).

 

I think you might be making some dangerous generalisations here. I can really only speak for the self-admitted avoidant I am with - who very much values connection. What I think is more fair to say is that it takes a LONG time for genuine trust to develop. I can't see what was so abnormal about her joking one hour after your talk. It would be so threatening for anyone, let alone an avoidant to be treated as a psychological specimen. I can't speak for all people who are avoidant, but the person I do have a "connection" with developed many more interests and goals than most people to which he is very committed, and still is a person is busy, busy, busy. You can't expect them to drop all of that - and in any case, that is part of the attraction - being with a person who is interesting. He said to me in the beginning that a previous long-term partner made the mistake of "making him her hobby."

 

The avoidant I am referring to does actually have a lot of self-awareness. I think that more so than other people, they want to know if you can accept them as they are. I believe the person I am with, has through his own admission, issues related to abandonment when a parent whose approval and love he had always been desperate for left for many years without making any contact. That's not the sort of thing you shove in a person's face. Yes, he wanted that "connection" very much and has told me it was what he wanted more than anything in the world. Thing is that he was hurt so badly, he doesn't want to be hurt like that again and at least some of what he does is self-protective.

 

Jlewand, if this woman you knew felt she couldn't/wouldn't change, would you have stayed with her or would you just keep searching through books and experts to make her conform to how you wanted her to be.

[Starapple30]

I wish I had the knowledge then that you do, it would have saved me pain. I hope my ex finds someone like you to love him.

[Silverbirch]

BIG BIG HUGS STRAPPIE. You can't know how things will work out for you. Sometimes I have to remind myself that "People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime." None of us can know which it will be. LOL, I have a couple of long-term relationships behind me and have had quite a lot of hurt and disappointment myself, but life has definitely gotten better.

[jlewand]

My bad. They value connection (this part of their limbic system is intact). However, their fears (and they don't have the WIRING present) prevent them from reciprocating "as they should given the default position of the limbic system to drive people towards each other, not away". And they substitute other things to put walls up and prevent emotional connection. For example, in an avoidant/preoccupied pairing, this is the setup in which the avoidant has the least amount of sex that they'd have compared to other attachment style partners. They use the lack of sex to prevent further connection.

 

Also, their "defensive exclusion" of attachment-related information has them distorting things like you wouldn't believe. They have so strongly suppressed their attachment system that they can never see clearly.

 

Re: trust. From what I've read, trust develops BY one year of age. If not built then it is virtually impossible to build it. This is the single biggest problem. From her perspective, what I attempted to relay to her is utterly suspect since I can not possibly be doing it on her behalf. Mutuality is another thing avoidants don't understand re: relationships/interactions. They see things as people WANT something FROM them.

 

Believe me, she's not a psychological specimen. She is someone I had a mutual connection with the most potential. I did my utmost best pulling multiple resources to aid in doing the best job possible. I did what no one else would likely ever do for her. All my friends said "just walk away". I chose to help as I would hope someone would do for me if I were in the same situation. The last thing I would do is "shove this" in the face of someone I held quite, quite dear to my heart and has suffered THE most traumatic wound imaginable: emotional rejection by her mother. Emotional rejection is vastly harder on a child than daily beatings. This experience of seeing someone like this has changed me forever. I had no idea this could happen to people. No idea whatsoever.

 

The answer to your last question is depends on what I know. For example, at the time, after 8 sensational day-long dates and finally broaching the tiniest of physical connection on date #8 (I won't broach anything physical until I'm sure of things), she bailed 2 days later never to return. Ironically, she verbally said she would tear my clothes off OR I'd have to leave. I was having none of it. A few hours earlier I was clear: no emotional connection, no sexual connection. Since I knew zero about attachment style then, I chalked her withdrawal up to possibly NPD (or some flavor thereof, BPD, etc.). Now that I know what her issues are, I would hopefully have no problem accommodating her attachment style.

 

I don't "want her to be any way". But when you see the profound level of internal struggle of an avoidant, and you know the "key" to their unhappiness (fearful-avoidants report the least happiness in life and relationships), I would have felt selfish to not try to help her. I still feel that way and always will. I did the near impossible of coaxing her back enough to be able to miraculously see her face-to-face. I didn't ambush her. I was clear in texts that I had found something that could help her (but didn't say what it was). She was game to learn.

 

There was nothing "abnormal" about her playfully tugging the folder. But based on what she just went through, it seemed strange to me. I saw many instances of dissociation that so concerned me, I didn't even know how to react.

 

Additionally, I email conversed with an author who's written 3 attachment-related books to get her take on my M.O. to attempt to help this person. She completely agreed with the attempt.

[Silverbirch]

I'm quite amazed that you had day-long dates! I have found that with us, it works much better when we do things sort of alongside each other for the most part. For example, we both have a passion horses. For me, it is especially ponies, but he has an almost psychic relationship with an old throroughbred he has living on his property. The best times have been when I have gone and taken his dogs for a walk and play on the property or done ground-handling of some of his ponies while he is busy doing things with the larger horses. We might go and have a peek at what the other is doing and even have a hug and/or a kiss. Then we will go and have a meal or a cup of tea together, then go back to our work. I am certain though that should I spend a whole day with him, it would be difficult for him. He is so used to his own company and he would feel smothered. Rather than want to rip my clothes off, he would want to run away. LOL! Humor is one of the most valuable tools in the relationship.

 

Another thing is that I think it is important to remember that there is a lot more to a person than their attachment issues. For example, recently on this site, somebody recommended to me that I read the book "5 Languages of Love". I've only read a small part of it, but what I applied has certainly had a very positive and surprising result for me so far. Well, maybe some of those things can be related to attachment issues, but there's a lot to be gained from other books which do not focus on a non-lay explanation for attachment issues.

 

The worst times for me have been when something has happened, and I've mistakenly believed that perhaps he would not be avoidant with another person. In fact, most of the time, I am of the opinion, that he is less avoidant with me than any other person in the world. He tells me that. I know that even with his best male friend (who buy the way can be quite a clingy, in-your-face, non-stop talking person) that after one and a half hours, my friend wants to get away from him. Again though, they have yet other shared passions related to engineering and most of their talk is about that.

 

Something which I think brings something to the relationship - and I can't be certain if it is related to being avoidant - is that he seems to have the ability to remove emotion when looking at situations which doesn't come naturally to me (I have a lot anxious traits). In recent times, there was a situation which I know affected him very much and upset him. There had been a horrific road accident close to where he lived, and he didn't even want to leave his home for a day -even though he didn't know the people. It had reminded me of another disaster a few years before where people in his local community perished in a "natural disaster" and he was unable to help them. Underneath it all, he is one of the caring, most sensitive people I have ever known.

 

The thing is, which I am sure you know, if the person doesn't want to go to counselling, you can't make them. Nevertheless, there have been changes with him, but a lot of it is just how he is and likely how he will always be.

[jlewand]

I'm quite amazed that you had day-long dates!

 

The thing is, which I am sure you know, if the person doesn't want to go to counselling, you can't make them. Nevertheless, there have been changes with him, but a lot of it is just how he is and likely how he will always be.

 

Our dates were absolutely perfect and epic. I never knew until our relationship was over that all I had been looking for in a partner (I've only had 4 gf's my whole life, 1st was ex-wife, my first date was at age 27) was the activity partner/intellectual angle. She had that in droves and we never lacked for any conversation or activity. Even physical activity (she is a cyclist as I am, she's also a marathon rollerblader, runner, triathlete).

 

It killed me to lose that angle. And I'm aware it killed her too. We would never ever bore each other in any way. Add in the cutest woman imaginable who thought I was cute (shocking but true).

 

Ironically, the best counseling is to be IN a relationship and to learn the ropes and to just TRY to allay one's fears. The most valuable thing I learned in counseling in 2006 was: feel the fear BUT DO IT ANYWAY!

 

This woman was the first woman I initiated physical contact with. I was scared to death going over to her place that day as I knew I couldn't simply keep ignoring the sizzling mutual attraction. But I did it and it worked 100x better than imaginable. I went home and slept with my shirt on my chest so I could smell her soap (I don't think it was perfume as I don't like perfumes). I was higher than I'd ever been. But 2 days later it all came crashing down around me and it hurt like a mofo.

 

I'm in counseling now to try to get past her and am having some small success finally. My counselor keeps prodding me to realize that even in the best of circumstances, she will never be relationship material. I agree but I can't help but recall the utterly depressing experience of seeing someone who can't do what I thought everyone could (heck, even I can manage a relationship now).

 

The hardest part of this is knowing all the things she said and did that were NOT avoidant behavior. She was pretty "normal" in spite of various bizarre red flags. But, once we kissed a few times and cuddled, her trigger was tripped and she would never return.

 

A week after her withdrawal she had already agreed to take me out for my birthday. Afterwards, for 30 minutes I read her the riot act (I was so unbelievably hurt by her withdrawal). It was clear to me then, no matter WHO I was, she would act this same way with everyone (but I still knew nothing about attachment theory). Then for the next hour after that, I did nothing but compliment her. I was clear: I won't find her like again. So, I told her I'm stuck hoping she could somehow get a handle on her issues (which she even mentioned in plain English as we talked). To see her drive away knowing it was likely the last time I would ever see or talk to her was gut-wrenching. And 5 months later, a few days before Valentine's when I got lucky enough to have her spot me on her street, when I left her condo building I was pretty sure it would be the last time I'd ever see or talk to her. It was horrible to have to do something for someone knowing you've likely just severed your own potential happiness with this person. I had to do it knowing I would lose any chance. Life can be a real beotch sometimes...

 

I cut your post/quote because I'm so envious you have that with someone. Please accept my apology in advance for seeming to not care about your story.

 

I found a transcript of an avoidant's psych sessions over a 2-year period as they migrated from avoidant to "earned secure" attachment. I wish I had the balls to print it off and send to her but I know I can't dent her whatsoever. She just won't try.

[Silverbirch]

I have to get ready to go off for work, but back tonight. Many things you say, not co-incidentally, remind me of him. LOL, but something you did too! When I sleep in his bed, he won't change the sheets for days because he said he can smell ME in them. He also confessed to keeping my hairbands which had fallen out of my hair in my sleep, that he keeps them beside his bed and sniffs them and that they are comforting.

 

I think it was really nice that you shared the love of cycling together! Yeah, I think just life and getting to spend time with that person doing things like sharing things you like is the best therapy for all of us.

 

I feel your pain Bro. No apologies required.

[stroltz]

I found a transcript of an avoidant's psych sessions over a 2-year period as they migrated from avoidant to "earned secure" attachment. I wish I had the balls to print it off and send to her but I know I can't dent her whatsoever. She just won't try.

 

 

I feel your pain, I'm going through the same situation with my avoidant girlfriend. She is as avoidant as it gets and I have become extremely anxious in the past months. However, when I learned about attachment theory, suddenly everything made sense and I'm not gonna lie: I have some hope that I can come to terms with who she is and live in a healthier relationship, just like Silverbirch.

 

Would you be so kind to share with us the transcript of the avoidant's psych sessions? The reason why I ask this is because I've read tons of threads and books about this but somehow I am always missing the avoidant's perspective. It's probably because they don't seek help in forums, they just don't open themselves. I am desperately trying to find someone avoidant to talk to to try and understand them and MOST OF ALL... understand how (or if) it is possible for them to change to a more secure state!

 

Regards

[jlewand]

Here is the transcript. Quite a find if I do say so myself.

 

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Here is a list of the 9 functions the prefrontal cortex provides. My "ex-gf" can't do any of them except "intuition". Seriously. Her left-right brain as so UNintegrated, that if I texted (multiple occasions) something very emotion-laden, her response was (I'm not joking): I acknowledge your thoughts. However, over time and reanalyzing (to death) our time together, I now realize she does experience emotions on some level, but sharing them or explaining them is another matter.

 

link removed

 

I wish I could pick her up once a week and walk to therapy with her and somehow convey support in a way that doesn't trip her fear triggers.

 

You must remember, when a child is continually rebuffed by their primary caregiver, deep inside of them an anger and rage develops. But, they must dissociate because they can't be mad at the person who IS taking care of them on some level. I've read transcripts where the avoidant, in therapy, ritualisticaly kills or dismembers their mother as part of the healing process. The anger is so deep and massive, I can't even imagine....

[Silverbirch]

As far as I know, with my man, it was the father not the mother who hurt him. After I had been with him a while, he started making passive-aggressive jokes about the father - quite awful jokes. Then he would say: "I know I'm terrible aren't I for saying that?" I would just say: "You must have your reasons for saying that". Then usually I would change the subject to something very neutral, just chit-chat.

 

I don't think my avoidant wants to change. He was on his own for 16 years before I came onto the scene. I could hardly believe it as I think he is very attractive. After his marriage ended, he had a series of short-lived relationships. He tells me he was scared that the women would have babies and he was on a low income and already bringing a child up on his own and just managing. There were other things too, but I don't think there was anything terribly sinister on his part, and one of them is still a friend who he sees from time to time though she is happily married now. He tells me he is hard work - but I have found all of the men I have been with hard work - it's just a different type of had work.

 

I couldn't be sure that man in my life is completely closed to the idea of therapy - but as for a lot of matters - he would have to think it was his idea!

[stroltz]

Here is the transcript. Quite a find if I do say so myself.

 

link removed

 

jlewand, that was the most helpful resource I have ever seen. This article helped me beyond measure!

 

From this article I can draw one important conclusion: AVOIDANTS are able to change (at least a bit)! The question is: how should we (their partners) make them realize that the walls they build, instead of protecting them, are disabling them from being happy? How can their partner help them?

 

In other words, how to make them realize they need help without losing them??

[jlewand]

jlewand, that was the most helpful resource I have ever seen. This article helped me beyond measure!

 

From this article I can draw one important conclusion: AVOIDANTS are able to change (at least a bit)! The question is: how should we (their partners) make them realize that the walls they build, instead of protecting them, are disabling them from being happy? How can their partner help them?

 

In other words, how to make them realize they need help without losing them??

 

That's the million dollar question.

 

As I mention, I couched my final talk with empathic, delicate language and complete support and understanding. I explained I myself had been close to where she was but counseling had allowed my life-long self-esteem to go from zero to acceptable. And, I emphasized that by saying it is BECAUSE of this increase in self-esteem that I was able to email that cute woman with the slick profile text. I'd never have been able to do that if my self-esteem was still zero. And surely the books I provided, she could read/browse and either find her attachment style within their pages OR if not, then proclaim I was an idiot for thinking there was anything wrong with her.

 

No dent. None. But I think she is an extreme case of fearful-avoidant. But, I'm still struck by how much she DID relay about herself and how she could and could not handle things. For example, when I explained that I needed to see her actions match her words, she immediately explained that she can NOT do that. I had no idea what that meant at the time (obviously). She was actually being honest about her inabilities. I have a ton (oodles) of respect for that.

[stroltz]

Sorry, but I refuse to accept there is no solution. There must be a scientific way to solve this so that an avoidant and an anxious can turn things around and live happily ever after. I know one thing: I will contact everyone with experience, do everything I can. Let's just hope it's not too late.

[Silverbirch]

Thank you jlewand for posting that link. I read all of it, and I'm absolutely positive that my man has the same personality type as Klara - dismissive avoidant. His family life and experiences were similar though I would say his were much more traumatic than hers. To be honest, I saw parts of myself in Klara - only I think I had responded differently to her. Rather than developing a coat of armor, I was drawn to "caring" professions. Of course, I've come to learn that I need to be sensitive about carer type behaviour around this man. He takes great pride in being "self-sufficient." Nevertheless, over time, his guard has come down a lot.

 

Like others have said, so many things make sense when you understand avoidant attachment.

 

Jlewand, just as your lady said "I can NOT do that", I have been told on occasion: "You don't understand what you are asking me to do!" I was like Huh??? What is the big deal over nothing. Some things that are nothing to me are very big him, and possibly vice versa.

 

Strolz, you ask how can we make them realise they NEED help. Oh, NEED is a TERRIBLE, AWFUL, WORST word possible to an avoidant. I would think the easiest way for them would be to simply stumble into therapy for something which doesn't seem too big or incurable. Klara went because of her difficulties driving. I doubt very much that at her initial consultation she would have known that her whole life story would have been brought up and put under the microscope. She was able to allow herself to go through this because she obviously had trust and rapport with the therapist.

[90_hour_sleep]

That's the million dollar question.

 

As I mention, I couched my final talk with empathic, delicate language and complete support and understanding. I explained I myself had been close to where she was but counseling had allowed my life-long self-esteem to go from zero to acceptable. And, I emphasized that by saying it is BECAUSE of this increase in self-esteem that I was able to email that cute woman with the slick profile text. I'd never have been able to do that if my self-esteem was still zero. And surely the books I provided, she could read/browse and either find her attachment style within their pages OR if not, then proclaim I was an idiot for thinking there was anything wrong with her.

 

i'm not surprised that this made no 'dent' in her armor. i know few people who enjoy being psychoanalyzed...especially by someone who claims to love them. further, no one likes to be told what they should be doing. no one enjoys the feeling that someone else knows what's best. there's a subtle arrogance with that (that's how it will always come accross, whether it is intended or not). most people (whether 'avoidant' or otherwise) don't respond well to that sort of thing. it smacks of an agenda. it says, "i'm here to fix you! i can see exactly what is 'wrong' with you, and i'm here to point it out so you can get 'better'!. and then...we can be together!''

 

i understand that those aren't your words. i'm not attacking you. but i hope you can see that this kind of behaviour isn't at all supportive. it might not matter in the grand scheme of things. but it certainly won't help. your best bet will always to support without an agenda. that means zero expectation of change. you provide love and support. work on providing some fertile ground...a safe place that at the very least encourages and promotes growth. it may never happen...because there is another person involved who may never feel safe enough to explore with you. at that point, you have to ask yourself if you can live with not having your own needs met.

 

i think the catch with all of this is that the relationship will tend to feel very one-sided from the perspective of the one who isn't 'avoidant'. seems to require a tremendous level of security in one's self. are you willing to make giving (true giving, without expectation of reciprocation) your primary function in a relationship?

 

From this article I can draw one important conclusion: AVOIDANTS are able to change (at least a bit)! The question is: how should we (their partners) make them realize that the walls they build, instead of protecting them, are disabling them from being happy? How can their partner help them?

 

In other words, how to make them realize they need help without losing them??

 

you don't. and just about anything you do in an attempt to make them realize will result in a strengthened resistance.

 

love and support. that's the only role you can play in the relationship that will even come close to promoting what you're after.

 

in my opinion, this is one way to go about it:

link removed

 

and, i think silverbirch mentioned something along these lines, but it's probably best to drop the labels. they're great for an initial 'diagnosis' or for your own reference...but at some point they start to pick up a derogatory vibe.

 

Strolz, you ask how can we make them realise they NEED help. Oh, NEED is a TERRIBLE, AWFUL, WORST word possible to an avoidant. I would think the easiest way for them would be to simply stumble into therapy for something which doesn't seem too big or incurable. Klara went because of her difficulties driving. I doubt very much that at her initial consultation she would have known that her whole life story would have been brought up and put under the microscope. She was able to allow herself to go through this because she obviously had trust and rapport with the therapist.

 

trust and rapport. love and support.

 

I couldn't be sure that man in my life is completely closed to the idea of therapy - but as for a lot of matters - he would have to think it was his idea!

 

exactly!

[Lonewing]

To be with an avoidant, I dare say one has to be avoidant themselves, or at least so strongly secure within themselves that they are able to handle the "orbit" of the avoidant. Those who are socially "high maintenance" would suffer most.

[stroltz]

Then the book "Attached" by Levine is wrong when it says that SECURE people can be with both an AVOIDANT and an ANXIOUS: secures can give anxious all the reassurance they need and avoidants all the space, without feeling overwhelmed or damaged. The book says that secures are magical people because they can raise an avoidant (and an anxious, for that matter) to the level of security.

 

How can that be right? How can avoidants be raised to the secure level if they are not even confronted with their issues (like Klara was)? Is it possible that a SECURE is the "cure" for an avoidant? Then they do not need therapy at all

[jlewand]

I do understand your perspective and stance on this situation. Because I'm so "childlike", I rarely can see the negative of situations wherein to me they are all positive or "altruistic" (technically no such thing, but you get the idea). IOW, someone in my early 20's took me aside at work and explained to me the things I was doing that were unnecessary and also driving people away from me. I didn't understand what they were getting at at the time, but I was by no means upset or took it as anything other than someone offering advice.

 

I don't claim to love her. I was simply a guy she dated for 2 months who can't stand to see someone who can't feel safe connection to other people. I certainly don't know what's best for her (but being a betting man, I'm 100% sure she is not happy in life or I never would have attempted to help), so all I can do is explain my particular life experience relevant to hers. People are in control of their own lives ultimately. But, sometimes, someone saying or doing something can bring an epiphany to a person.

 

My goal was to apprise her of what her struggle is (with data that she can read herself to verify) knowing it would likely go completely unappreciated. It's unlikely she's ever been made aware of what the source of her life-long struggles is (either from friends, family or her past counselors). She had mentioned multiple times that she's aware she has deep-seated issues. So, since she was at least aware of something amiss, I chose to try to help her further along on that path.

 

At the end of this talk, I also provided a Valentine's day card and some other personal notes to let her know that I am willing to entertain any connection with her.

 

I still find my behavior quite supportive in light of the fact that she'd withdrawn 5 months earlier and was likely never going to come back even as a friend. And, the author who I consulted agreed it was best to tell her what her struggle was and leave the rest up to her. Mincing words would never help her become self-aware on this issue.

[jlewand]

Then the book "Attached" by Levine is wrong when it says that SECURE people can be with both an AVOIDANT and an ANXIOUS: secures can give anxious all the reassurance they need and avoidants all the space, without feeling overwhelmed or damaged. The book says that secures are magical people because they can raise an avoidant (and an anxious, for that matter) to the level of security.

 

How can that be right? How can avoidants be raised to the secure level if they are not even confronted with their issues (like Klara was)? Is it possible that a SECURE is the "cure" for an avoidant? Then they do not need therapy at all

 

Good questions. I think the answer is: the best therapy imaginable related to attachment/relationships is to learn while IN a relationship. As time goes on, it's possible an avoidant learns not to feel so overwhelmed and preoccupieds learn to settle down as they are comfortable their needs WILL be met.

 

The point Attached is making is that security rubs off on the other partner to some degree. However, I've known secure people who dated avoidants and it pulls them closer to insecurity than the other way around.

[Lonewing]

Then the book "Attached" by Levine is wrong when it says that SECURE people can be with both an AVOIDANT and an ANXIOUS: secures can give anxious all the reassurance they need and avoidants all the space, without feeling overwhelmed or damaged. The book says that secures are magical people because they can raise an avoidant (and an anxious, for that matter) to the level of security.

 

How can that be right? How can avoidants be raised to the secure level if they are not even confronted with their issues (like Klara was)? Is it possible that a SECURE is the "cure" for an avoidant? Then they do not need therapy at all

 

It's not so much a "cure, it's simply a reflection of the fact that a secure is most able to allow the avoidant to be who they are wihtout getting hurt or trying to intervene/change them into something else. The more you try to change a persosn, the more resistant they become.

 

So if you were able to accept small short bursts of explosive intimacy punctuated by long periods of peaceful bliss [where you and them are equally engaged in whatever you do apart], you can make it work. Anxious would starve, secure-anxious would be likely to shift more toward anxious.

 

You have to remember that within themselves, avoidants are already secure - they already have a secure relationship.

 

And of course, every author/researcher/book will err here and there, or be right but be wrong [and at the same time], or miss something altogether. The authro can be wrong about one part of the theory, but that doesn;t so much make the book wrong - it'd just make one of the conclusions wrong, or define under what conditions must exist for the author's conclusion to be correct.

[90_hour_sleep]

ah. apologies. i missed the ''5 month'' context. so, you were just someone with some insight into her character, and offered as much without personal agenda?

 

 

 

very true. very true. i tend to think this works most effectively when it's done in passing. maybe you planted a seed for her...

[stroltz]

Can somebody help me here? Ok, I understood the attachment theory and I can now stop blaming my avoidant girlfriend and finally understand her, and even try and accept her. However, there are still some practical, everyday stuff that I don't really know how to deal with. For example:

 

When they're going through one of those phases where they need to set a distance in order to 'protect' themselves (OMG, if only they knew that's what's making them unhappy)... should we give them their space and wait for them to contact us? I mean, I understand they need to set the pace of the relationship and control it 100% but... should we comply with that? or should we call them ourselves in order to run away a bit from their control?

 

My girlfriend is now going through that phase. Before I knew these things about attachment theory, I would ALWAYS wait for her to contact me, because I was afraid to look needy. So we would only talk with each other when SHE was available or wanted to. Should I break that cycle and contact her?

 

What do you guys make of all this?

 

Thanks for the support you all been giving me!

[Silverbirch]

Hi Stroltz,

I think it's definitely best to give them space, but it's impossible to say about contacting them because it depends on the 2 individuals and the level of their relationship. In my case, the longest we have not been in contact has been 2 or 3 days at the most. I don't know whether that will change.

 

It wasn't all that long ago that I considered ending my romantic attachment to him. Something happened involving a family member of his, and I was feeling that it was ME - if he was with somebody else, he wouldn't have to engage in his avoidant behaviour which at times has appeared as downright selfish. He CAN be selfish and self-centred. I knew though that if I did end that type of relationship with him that I could not bear to NEVER have him in my life - that with time, I'd be okay seeing him as a friend. I still believe that is likely if this relationship doesn't last as the type of relationship it currently is.

 

It turned out that the third person was pushing an agenda of their own which I think is the case. I told him that I thought if I was right for him, that some things would be different. He said something to me which an ENA member said to me 2 days later - practically word for word. That was: "You want him to love you the way you love him, and there is nothing wrong with that - but he can't. He's not you." That's what a person has to seriously consider if they are in relationships with other people. Perhaps we all love differently. That is why the book "The 5 Languages of Love" has been helpful for me. You have to really ask yourself if you can be happily in a relationship with a person who is avoidant, and what that will mean in terms of your lifestyle and emotional well-being. Outside of work, the avoidant in my life lives reclusively compared to most people - stopped going on holidays years ago, and now says he never wants to go away. In a few days time, I will fly away to be with a relative who is unwell, and will be doing those trips on a regular basis by myself. In fact, I'm grateful for the time to spend with my family without the "demands" of a relationship. I'm not sure how I'd feel though if I had the dollars for a great big overseas trip - but for sure I'd travel either on my own or with friends.

[HeatherB]

I thought Avoidant was a type of serious personality disorder. Like hermits and unabombers?