Avoidant Love vs. Secure/Anxious Love

[Silverbirch]

When I think about the whole situation and my own history, the big question I have to ask myself is: "Will being with this person destroy the person who I am. Will that person be stifled and become unhappy." In previous relationships, I was with men who were very demanding of my time and energy - and there were a lot of expectations that I should not only give that time to them, but to their families. In one relationship, I gave a lot of myself to his teenage children. Those relationships are now gone and I feel that I was the one who came out the other end quite badly. I regret that I did not give at least 80% of that time to my own family of origin and extended family (I come from a very large extended family). My mother is now elderly and won't be on this earth likely for much longer. I will give as much time as I can to her. When I go visit, I am meeting up with cousins who I am now in regular contact with through FB and of course, I have siblings as well. Some people could consider me avoidant because of that choice. The thing is that in this relationship, I do not have those types of previous expectations put on me. He does not criticise me - and that is a big thing because I can see especially in my marriage, my ex-husband who turned out to be gay and didn't have the courage at that time to come out, criticised and ridiculed (almost anywhere/anytime) me and if I hadn't left, I think I would be dead by now. The person I am with does have some qualities which support the person I was always meant to be and there are things which we share which is what brings friends together not just men and women.

[jlewand]

I thought Avoidant was a type of serious personality disorder. Like hermits and unabombers?

 

Avoidant personality disorder is semi-synonymous with avoidant attachment style.

 

Asocial (or is it antisocial) Personality Disorder is the nasty one.

[jlewand]

Stroltz, I admire the way you are handling things with your avoidant. If I only knew then what I know now. But, I don't think much would have changed.

 

In my case, dating her was actually good for my clinginess as I was limited to once per week, a few texts and virtually no phone calls. I had to abide by her wishes and I managed to not obsess about her all day long.

[stroltz]

Silverbirch, I admire (and even envy) your acceptance of your partner. I can say that you are virtually the only person I've found who is actually 'happy' in a relationship with an avoidant. Which attachment type would you consider yourself to have?

[Silverbirch]

Hi and Thank You Stroltz. I have an anxious attachment style though try to work on myself. Yes, it's important to know and remember who I am and my own issues. I've gotten a lot of support from ENA members. I came here after my last relationship ended more than 2 years ago. At that time, the man who is avoidant in my life was an acquaintance and then a friend - I was one of his clients. If I hadn't been his client, I doubt we would ever have met. Well, a lot of the time I am happy. I am not happy ALL the time. Being with him has been like a walk in the park compared to the other relationships. There is worse out there than avoidant for sure - at least for me.

[stroltz]

Let's face it, as far as we ANXIOUS (most of the people in this thread) are concerned, what's our biggest fear? Ultimately, it is to lose our partner. And this fear is exacerbated especially if our partner is AVOIDANT. Theory tells us that anxious have a very hard time breaking up and normally the whole thing comes to an end by the avoidant's initiative. So... This leads us to the question: When does an avoidant generally put an end to the relationship? Is it when the anxious confronts him/her with his/her unmet needs? Or is it out of the blue, when the anxious is not expecting and things seemed to be alright between them?

[Silverbirch]

Well, according to current man, his ex-wife left him - because of the avoidance issues. I know he had a teenage girlfriend who he ended it with because he was feeling pressured into marriage at that young age. I think it has been 50/50 for him.

 

I'm not sure you can generalise because there have been a couple of times, one in particular, when I "confronted" but that didn't involve yelling and none of it was aggressive. It involved talking and I was pretty much going to end it. I wouldn't say he talked me into staying. He definitely didn't plead or beg, but he was very sad. I was actually sadder though trying not to show that. Obviously, we didn't end up breaking up.

 

There was a time too recently which was just before the "confrontation" and which motivated that whereby I decided to cut short a visit to him due to something happening with one of his family members which made me very uncomfortable. I just stood up and said: "Well, I think I'll be off now. See you soon. Bye" During the "confrontation" a couple of days later, he said he really liked that I could do that and respected me for it. There was no big noise or drama, just politely saying I was going and offering no explanation.

[okiedokiestomp]

This is a really good thread. I just want to add a bit of info I remember from a long ago post that always struck me as very wise advice. It said that interdependent relationships are what we should strive for, a mix of dependent and independent. Its always stayed with me since I read it.

 

"Originally Posted by Fudgie

My father always told me that the best relationships were not with people who were independent or dependent in regards to each other but INTERDEPENDENT with each other. It's a mix of the two. You rely on your partner for certain things, you allow yourself to open up and be vulnerable, but you still retain aspects of yourself and you can stand on your own two legs if you need to, esp if you need to leave the relationship.

 

I think it's best to be "independent" in regards to everyone else in the world. You should be able to support yourself and have your own interests, etc. But in terms of a relationship, I think it's different. You need to let down your guard and let someone in, and that means relinquishing some control and giving that person some power in your life to help and support you."

 

My responce was this;

 

"this is really very wise insite. A person should enhance your life not become your life or take away from it."

[SecChance]

Spot on!!! This fits my ex to a "T". Amazing post!

[sfindependent]

I agree with some of the posters here. i've been reading this thread for a few days now and I feel that the more i read, the more it has become apparent to me that the girl i've been seeing currently has this to a T. sex is out of the question, and once when we were going at it physically, she became overwhelmed and started crying mid make out. She is 27 and has never been with a man before. Her relationships have been short term and with no intimacy.

 

But for the past week, she has been distant. Wednesday, I deactivated my Fb, and didn't reachout to her, and neither did she. It was as if nothing has ever happened between us although all throughout when we were alone, she showed me a lot of reaching out. But I began feeling excluded from her life. I've come to learn throughout the years that communication is an important part of a relationship, feeling included, wanted and involved and giving the same to my partner is essential in making things work in a relationship.

 

But for the most part, i felt like i was walking on eggshells with the thought that i'd be pushing her away rather than pulling her in. It's exhausting both mentally and emotionally with the push and pull of their "love".

 

She did say several times "itll get better if i keep trying", which of course gave me hope. But she did so while repeatedly saying "i dont want it, i'm confused" referring to our relationship or what could have been. I read somewhere in the the thread that it takes about a year of trust to build and it has beens ince then, maybe that's why she's more willing to be physical than she has ever been.

 

We were supposed to hang tonight but I cancelled on the account that i've been feeling clingy and needy lately. She has distanced herself lately from me but from the responses from my own thread, people have been telling me to leave well enough things alone. I agreed because i don't like feeling this way; while i tried to be maintan my boundaries and be confident and not waver with my feelings, I found myself slowly breaking apart. I cancelled but thought i was gonna send this, but refrained. i don't know if it's going to be of any help.

 

"i miss talking and sharing things with you. I think we've gotten closer the past few weeks than we have ever been. But lately i've been feeling left out from your life. I know things have been crazy and i myself have become more verbal with my emotional needs (you know i don't like being emotional, but we both know it's good i've made some strides in opening up to you). But honestly, I can't help but feel there's a bit of distance that has occurred lately.

 

I'm not sure if it's fear, if it's the overall overwhelming feelings of anxiety resulting from this whirlwind we'e been having... i'm not sure, but i definitely feel all these too. I do not want to assume how you're feeling but this is how i've been thinking the past few days. I'm trying to understand your POV and still be respectful of what you are comfortable giving to me, while maintaining myown boundaries, i dont want you to come hang with me because you're feeling guilty. I want you to hang with me because you want to as much as i do."

[WinterGreen]

SFIndependent:

 

Your post reminds me of what I'm currently going through. Although I'm on the other side of the break up already. I was dating a girl for a few short, great, passionate, and honestly...very friendly months and it all came to a somewhat sudden end a few weeks ago. I saw it coming too; we were getting especially close in April and then she got rapidly distant. I too decided to back off a bit and in the last week she even initiated all the texts/calls and dates that we had. Four days after I noticed initial marked change - she ended it.

 

While dating her she specifically mentioned that it takes her a long time, "years" as she described it, to get to know people - whether friendships or dating. She had little dating experience and I think she felt the added pressure and anxiety of not knowing the dance steps. Like yours, she mentioned "it'll get better if we just keep trying" exactly. And I was really fine with taking things slow and allowing her to trust me and the situation. I liked her. Our slow progression wasn't enough, though, and I felt that once I got under her walls just a bit, it made her end it.

 

During the hour long break up call, while she was crying and sobbing, she mentioned feeling an emotional connection to me, feeling attracted to me, liked hanging out and knew that we shared common interests and values...and yet it still wasn't working. I tried once to see if there was a way to work out these issues and then simply said good bye and wished her well. Haven't said a word to her since.

 

I could of course be wrong, maybe she just honestly didn't think we clicked and that was it, but after reading this thread and seeing a common experience with other posters here, I do find it quite similar.

[sfindependent]

Wintergreen (and the rest of the thread subscribers)

 

 

The thing is, I'm not sure what to make of it, really. The more you get closer to someone, the more apparent that things are getting "real", she started backing off. I realized that when the texts, the hangouts were mostly initiated by me. I'm sure of what i want from her and she mostly said "i don't know", or some other reason that left me with so much ambiguity. I didn't know where my place was with her. I definitely made sure that she knew where she was in mine. I remember saying "i'm scared, but I KNOW if we continued this, whatever this is, I will take you seriously because I know this is worth it." I asked her how she felt about it, but her response was "it takes me a long time to process things, I'm not much of a talker". But I am. I've been in enough relationships where I know part of a good relationship is good communication. Making your partner feel included in your life and making sure that feelings are heard. It makes me feel secure about the entire situation.

 

I have been staring at my phone for quite a while now. Thinking of what to say to "pull" her back, as PUA's often say about engaging with women. But i know i shouldn't.

 

I can hear the Man screaming in my head, yelling "NO DON'T DO IT. WHAT'S THE POINT? ANY THING YOU SAY OR DO WILL PUSH HER AWAY". I try to think of something nonchalant to say. Something that would convey that "i'm ok" or that "it's ok, you can come back now; my feelings of being left out of your life, and the trust of being able to open up to you is unimportant. What's more important is for us to be OK again". But i can't. I'm worth the effort. My feelings are worth taking little leaps of fatih. But since it's not, i'm feeling jilted, insecure and hurt. I feel whatever i'm going to say would be drama laden, and it would all be coming from me.

 

My feelings ARE important. My trust is Important. Sharing IS important. I'm not afraid of confronting how we feel for each other because i've got nothing to hide.

 

I'm repeatedly trying to remind myself that I need those things, but cannot ask for it. Even if she does give it (her time, her effort, etc) How can i gauge if she's the only reasons why she's staying is out of guilt, out of obligation or out of desire? In looking forward, I can't see a future where I would feel comfortable with dating her because I know in the back of my head i'll always be doubtful, of her intentions.

 

What's the point in trying to reach out to her/him when you know that they will only back away? Rejection comes in many forms and your legitimate feelings of fear, abandonment and love (genuine love, not the romantic love) are unheard and worst, avoided?

 

I work pretty closely with this girl and know her pretty well. She's immersing herself in her extra curricular activities to get over her depression (she has clinical depression, not the i've got a sucky life coz i didn't get an iphone for christmas, depression). so there's a lot of avoiding that is going on with her.

 

The way i see it, dealing with Avoidants go like this:

 

Closeness + intimacy + Trust = Flight mode

confrontation about feelings (good or bad) = Flight mode

NC (no Contact) + avoidant personality= Flight mode

Trust + Time = approachable.... but then will go back to Closeness + intimacy = Flight mode

Time + Comfort = Approachable... but then will go back to closeness + intimacy = Flight mode

 

Seems like there is no win with her. The anxious me says otherwise, but these are feelings. Feelings, while legitimate are intangible. It cannot hurt me in the long run. it will subside.

 

I started out this mini rant trying to find a solution in my head or trying to come up with a way to "pull her back" but seeing what i just wrote... makes me doubtful of the whole situation.

[mhowe]

I think your conclusions are right. Combination of avoidant and depression makes impossible for.the.relationship to grow, and for you to tried.the connection.

[sfindependent]

Also, its impossible to understand anyone, avoidants or otherwise, if they dont understand themselves who they are and convey who they are to you

[sfindependent]

thank you, mhowe.

 

I'm just not sure if she is aware of what is going on, even. I stopped talking to her, just a casual hi or awkward watercooler talk, despite us working together so closely. I know it takes time when it finally hits them and i've got enough self respect NOT to make the first move (since i'm the one who always does). I just got tired of making the doing it, opening up first (only to be met by doubt and insecurity) and always walking on egg shells.

 

Another point to add is that given our/my willingness to open up and say how i feel (mind you, i do not say the "you ___ me feel ____), i've a feeling she takes it as a confrontation rather than a desire to make things work. "I am feeling disconnected" or "i would like to hear how you feel"... she'll run away and go to another activity or some other guy to feel safer due to the lack of confrontation and realism of the situation. I'm feeling vulnerable opening up and her reluctance to reciprocate makes me feel alone. All of which does not contribute to the betterment of the relationship. It's a lose lose situation.

 

Ironically, i want to text her, ask to see if we can talk about what is going on with her backing off. I'm not at the place yet where i would hear what she'd say and be completely happy about the outcome regardless. I'm sure she's feeling rejected as well, but that is not my problem. i'm not incharge of how she feels. I can only listen to her, but being her, won't even talk when there's a listener that is willing to sit and listen.

 

Maybe someday.