Taken about a 2 month step back

[lisaria]

Hey all,

Short recap--My ex and I split on Superbowl weekend. Few emails later, one phone call (from me), Nothing. Saw him at the gym, HI and that's been it.

I've heard through a mutual friend that he's telling everyone that he dumped me. I guess he forgot to mention the cheating he did and the lying and how I said I'd had enough. I think it's the fact that he's lying again about me that really gets to me, making it sound like it was me that ruined our relationship. Telling people who I run into occasionally. People I have to deal with sometimes. I want to run a full page ad in the newspaper and tell everyone he's lying. It wasn't my fault!!!! I know what I did wrong, and I tell my part if anybody asks, why can't he?

I just felt like I have taken 100 steps back on the road to healing. I was finally getting better and now this. It's like he's right back in my face. I've wanted to cry all day long and I can't understand why he's doing this. I was actually thinking about emailing him and telling him I forgive him for hurting me like he did. I was thinking really hard about that and now this. I think it's God's way of telling me to let him go completely. How could I ever have anymore feelings for someone who lies so much? About me. But it hurts. Once again I've let him get to me. How do you stop?

What should I do? Should I email him and tell him what a scumbag he is? Ask him why he's doing it? Ignore it? What would you do in this situation?

Help please!!!

Lisa

[kipster]

 

 

I can tell several things by your e-mail. First, you still love this 'scumbag' unless why on earth would you care what he tells others? Especially when you know the truth, so lets 'keep it real' on that issue. Secondarily, I'd say not to e-mail him at all. If getting even with him is your goal, why not date others? Similarly, if you really want to hurt him, trust me, not caring about him or returning his calls will do more to his psyche than any e-mail, etc., could ever do. But again, it sounds like you still love this guy, so for now I'd say just ignore it and him for a little while...Clearly his behavior demonstrates that he still loves you, unless why else would he lie about the break-up? It'd be just as easy for him to not say anthing about you and just move on...Whenever your name came up, he'd simply state, "next topic' or 'next'...So I think on the inside both of you still care about each other quite a bit...give it time I say...

[healing]

I think he is trying to save face. He doesn't want people to think he is the 'bad guy', so he is going around spreading his version of the story first. I don't think he is giving any consideration to your feelings or your reputation whatsoever!

 

I think that you are better off without him. How could you ever trust him again? He is telling lies to people to make himself look good!

 

You know, they say that you really find out who someone is after you break up with her/him.

 

I suggest total 'no contact'. No matter what you say, this guy will twist it around and spread it around. I don't think giving him something in writing is a good idea, unless you want that passed around too!

[debisfun]

Lisa,

 

It really hurts me to read what you are going through. Our situations are similiar (but my ex isn't such a scumbag).

 

It's easy to recognize toxic situations from afar. And sister....I can tell that you are in a really bad place. You *think* you are in love with him, but you really are in love with the fantasy of what you wish he would be, and the dream of the future you thought you had.

 

There is no way that a healthy person could love someone who treated them so poorly.

 

Have you read the book "Women Who Love Too Much?" If not, you HAVE to read the book. You won't like it, but it will really help you gain strength and focus. If you've already read the book, RE-READ IT! Also pick up "Letting Go", and "Don't Call That Man".

 

It really is true that living well is the best revenge. It doesn't matter what he is telling other people. Who cares if he tells people that he dumped you? Take the high road, be classy and just say "well, there are two sides to every story" and let it drop. You'll have the respect of your friends, and more importantly, the respect of yourself, if you refuse to take his bait.

 

It's okay to take a break from dating. It's okay to tell people that you are taking time for yourself (that's what I'm doing). The important thing is to REALLY take the time for yourself and take the energy you are wasting on him, and use it for yourself. You are the only person you can help.

 

Take advantage of your friends. Look for some groups to join (in California there are lot's of weekend "adventure" groups that go camping and hiking -- a great way to meet people). If you are really crazy, do what I have done and sign up for a triathlon (the training will keep you busy!)

 

I hate to pull out the age card, but you and I have been around a bit longer than most of the people here. We both have the history to know that we can live on our own and that we can love. We both KNOW that we will get through this. We both KNOW that we are strong, wonderful women with much to offer the world.

 

Good Luck. You can do this. We can do this.

[princesa]

Hi Lisa,

 

I was already going to sleep but then I saw your post, and since your comments always have helped me so much, I really feel bad for this set-back in your healing.

 

Look. I've been cheated really bad twice by two different men - they did NOT love me, otherwise they wouldn't have done what they did. No matter how much it hurts and no matter how much you love this scumbag (it's not your fault you have feelings 4 him), you have to stand up 4 yourself 4 what you are worth. And Lisa, I can read that you are worth a lot. You don't have to put up with a cheating man unless you like 'open relationships' which I suppose you don't.

 

I completely agree with Healing: this guy is just trying to save his face and he's also doing this because he has a bad conscience - he has done something wrong and he knows that. Don't interprete this as caring 4 you. I'm sure he once did, but nowadays he only seems to be acting selfish.

I know it"s hard to admit that now. My longest recovery from a broken heart was exactly from the guy who hurt and cheated me most. Today I'm suffering from a completely different kind of heart break, and I ask myself, why did I suffer for the cheater that much back then. He wasn't even worth all that pain. But you can't control who you fall for and not who breaks your heart in most pieces, can you?

 

You seem to be an intelligent, adult woman. You can help the others and always find words that give the others strength - please don't let this guy put you down. You CAN be strong, you know.

I'd just try to forget this guy...at the end of the day you will, and you know that. You once replied me 'it doesn't seem like that now but you will survive this' - well so will you. I wouldn't write any mail, but if you need closure, go ahead. THEN please forget about him. At least start trying to...

 

Take care,

Princesa

 

PS. You also wrote once "pour your heart out here, not to him"...so...

[kuhl282000]

Hello

 

Well you got the scum bag cheater out of your life, good 4 you. But you feel he is trashing you. What you may not realize is that it was his loss not yours. If he lies and cheats who would want him anyway. The old saying sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me. Try not to be so sensitive when it comes to this jerk, he for sure is not worth it. If you feel you need to set the record straight. What I might do is send him a very short email (and if you do this expect nothing in return) only for 1 reason to set the record straight. The email might go like this. And 1 email only that is it, only one. And do not respond if he does. No matter what.

 

Name/his name

 

You let me down, I loved you. Just thought you should know the truth. But most of all you let yourself down. I'm a wonderful person, and I deserved better than the lies and cheating you were offering up.

 

Hope your life works out for you, but I will not be in it. I forgive you for what you have done to us. I hope you can someday forgive yourself.

 

then sign it

 

Then forget about it. But trust me it will get him thinking. and it will more than likely shut his big mouth. But most of all you will have said your piece. And then leave it at that. and it is time to forget this guy for good, and go get someone that will love and respect you for who you are. Cheating is never an option in any relationship. You would never trust this guy again anyway. And remember we can't control what other people say or do. But we can control what we do. Good luck if you choose to go this route, otherwise just blow it all off as him being a big jerk. That will work also.

Either way..........Remember people forget, so memory is on your side.

 

God Bless You

 

Warm Regards

 

Kuhl

 

8)

[lisaria]

Hello to ya'll,

Thank you so much for the advice guys and gals. I am at a pretty low spot tonite, trying to hide it so my daughter won't know.

I got up here and saw the posts from you guys and it makes me cry. I wish you were right Kipster and that he did still care about me because I do love him still. It is the "old" him that I want back and the dreams and promises that he made. If things could be like they were in the beginning, I'd take him back in a flat second. But it's not going to happen. I know everyone would think I was out of my mind if I did take him back. Like I said though, it will not happen.

Healing, I think you are right and he is trying to save face which proves that he really didn't love me because if he did love me he wouldn't hurt me like that. You know, I really thought I had been making progress this past week. I had a date Saturday night with a very nice fella, had a good time. I was feeling like I was going to get past this. Then this and it has brought all of that hurt back up. I feel like I'm on a thin wire above Niagara Falls (where we went on a vacation), and I'm barely hanging on. Like a train is coming without it's headlight on in a dark tunnel and I can't see it. What will throw me back the next time? I was doing pretty good. How long will this go on?

Princesa, thank you for staying up to write your post. I guess I wrote those words when I was feeling a little stronger. I wish I still did.

But I'm pouring my heart out to you guys. My own words coming back to haunt me. I wish I could feel so strong all of the time and not get blindsided just by hearing about what he says. I don't know, I guess I just wasn't expecting to hear that he was saying unkind things about me. And how unrealistic is that? I feel like I'm living in a timewarp where nothing is right and everything is stuck in a waiting mode. I know I'm not just waiting for him to come back. I am getting out there and doing things, but my heart keeps saying he's coming back, so I'm waiting somewhere in limbo half of the time. I don't think I bring it out too much and look at it because my head says it's stupid. He's NOT coming back.

kuhl, my friend, I hope memory is on my side, but living in such a small town, I am probably the main topic of conversation right now. You are right, they will forget. Something else will come along and I just have to hold my head up and keep going. I'm just tired of all of it. I was doing better, nearly there I thought. Now this.

Deb, I'm going to see if I can't get a copy of that book, women who love too much. Just the name says that's for me. I feel like I do love too much. Him especially and it can't be healthy. Not after what he did. No matter how charming, fun, or how many promises he made. He's not worth it. I have to remember that. I have to be strong.

I don't know if I will email him or not, but I will write one and save it to my drafts (along with all of the other ones), so I can get rid of some of my thoughts. I may send it later when I feel stronger again. Right now I just have to get through the next day or two. Thank you guys for being here.

Lisa

[kipster]

Hello to ya'll,

... I wish you were right Kipster and that he did still care about me because I do love him still. It is the "old" him that I want back and the dreams and promises that he made. If things could be like they were in the beginning, I'd take him back in a flat second. But it's not going to happen. I know everyone would think I was out of my mind if I did take him back. Like I said though, it will not happen....

 

Well Lisa, I do believe I'm right that he still does care..Trust me..men who don't care don't waste time talking about women that aren't in their life anymore (at least in there eyes)...I like you, would welcome the former version of my EX with open arms, and although that may be a possiblity for the person to revert to their former self, it is generally a gradual and self-motivated process..They have to want to get back to who they were, no pushing or proding will help that..Now it CAN HAPPEN...I've seen it happen even in cases where a ring was thrown at a dumpee, who's dumper wanted him back after 6 months and had reverted back to her sweet and loving self...However, to the dumpee it was too late and because of what she did, he didn't trust her any longer and his heart heardened toward her over this time frame..So it can happen..You just have to know/believe firmly that this person is the 1 for you...If you do and have faith anything and all is possible!

 

Second, who gives a DAMN what others think about you taking him back...Screw any and all public perceptions of your happiness! If he's the guy you want and he makes you complete, then why worry about how others see you? Did you worry in the beginning? Then why worry now? Generally those people who think negatively about you taking someone back are in crappy situations themselves (i.e., misery loves company)...Just look at those giving the advice and ask yourself are they in fulfilling relationships themselves? I'm always amazed with how easily people take advice from those who aren't in the position/situation that they themselves want to be in? Would you take advice from a bum on how to be a millionare? Then why on earth would you worry about how others would perceive you if this is the guy that makes you happy? You've got to DO YOU and not worry about those in the background...many of whom would probably want to be with you man themselves...

 

But I will say this, use your head to get him back, not your heart...it can be done! I'm telling you....If you want the old him back, then do not support this new version of him no matter how much it hurts..to do so reinforces the negative person within him and constricts that good, loving, guy you want from emerging...keep contact to a minimum and best..and when you do talk have happy conversations in a soothing tone and you can do it! Trust me...just have patience! That is, if you really do want him back! I'm telling you I've seen much worse cases than yours end up with the two people involved back together!

[lisaria]

Hey Kipster,

You make me want to try contacting him again. I would love to try and get him back, but I'm afraid that I would be rejected again. I could not go through that again. I have to hang onto that small shred of pride I still have. He's with someone anyhow. As far as I know it's the same one he was on the phone with Superbowl Sunday.

It's been three months and I am not sure it's been long enough to start emailing him again. I figure I'll give it another month or two and then I'll probably come up here and ask everybody what they think. I know this will sound conniving, but I read that at about the fourth month mark is when people start noticing the flaws in their new loves, so I am hoping by then he'll be noticing his new one's faults. Then she'll be hurt, but right now I don't care. She should not have messed with him. He was with me. I know it was his choice to do walk away from me, but maybe it wouldn't have seemed so easy if she had not been waiting. Sigh. I'm just venting I think. I doubt she even knew about me...or did she and she just didn't care?

But maybe by the time I think about emailing him again it won't matter because I won't care, I hope to be at that stage by then. Sigh.

But Kip, I have thought about what you've said and it does make me believe that maybe he did care and still does. Crap! Why did he cheat and lie then? Maybe one day I'll be able to ask him.

Lisa

[kipster]

Hey Kipster,

You make me want to try contacting him again. I would love to try and get him back, but I'm afraid that I would be rejected again. I could not go through that again. I have to hang onto that small shred of pride I still have. He's with someone anyhow. As far as I know it's the same one he was on the phone with Superbowl Sunday.

 

I can't 'MAKE YOU' want to do anything that you don't already want to do. But I say to you, what's stopping you but AIR AND OPPORTUNITY? And what's the worst he can tell you, "NO I'M NOT INTERESTED"? If that's the case then he just confirms your initial expectations and you simply move on? But what if he tells you he's UNHAPPY IN HIS RELATIONSHIP AND HAS ALWAYS LOVED YOU? What if this new relationship is a rebound? There's alot of what if's here...And I'm not saying call him and ask for him back right away! That would be insane...Instead, call him with happy talk, i.e., hey did you see the football game this weekend? (since he watched the superbowl) or Hey, what do you think of the local team this year with their new draft picks? (if he's a sports junkie) or simply, "hey, how are you, I just called to see what's going on...(like catching up with an old friend) and keep the conversation short (no more than 10 minutes where your the one to hang up first, ALWAYS)....Listen to his tone of voice, how much HE TALKS, and let him guide the convo....There's no harm in that, you're not STALKING HIM or anything and if he gets abrasive, simply say hey it was nice catching up with you, but I've got to run....

 

It's been three months and I am not sure it's been long enough to start emailing him again. I figure I'll give it another month or two and then I'll probably come up here and ask everybody what they think. I know this will sound conniving, but I read that at about the fourth month mark is when people start noticing the flaws in their new loves, so I am hoping by then he'll be noticing his new one's faults. Then she'll be hurt, but right now I don't care. She should not have messed with him. He was with me. I know it was his choice to do walk away from me, but maybe it wouldn't have seemed so easy if she had not been waiting. Sigh. I'm just venting I think. I doubt she even knew about me...or did she and she just didn't care?

 

I'd say 3 months is PLENTY OF TIME for at least initial healing especially with a guy...but I wouldn't e-mail him...You don't get any behavioral indicators from that (like tone of voice, avoidance, etc). I say you might try now (no better time than the present) as he may even want to hear from you, but his ego/pride might not be willing to let him do so...

 

Also, forget about the other woman...she is inconsequential in this equation...Believe me he does not love her, especially after 3 months....This is about you and him, not the side-show and extras...If you want him, you must be patient, believe in yourself, not give up when you hit a wall, and in the End (If you really believe in your heart, that he's the one) I have no doubt you'll get him. The only thing I don't know is how long it will take....

 

But maybe by the time I think about emailing him again it won't matter because I won't care, I hope to be at that stage by then. Sigh.

But Kip, I have thought about what you've said and it does make me believe that maybe he did care and still does. Crap! Why did he cheat and lie then? Maybe one day I'll be able to ask him.

Lisa

 

Perhaps you won't care anymore, that is also a possibility...In that sense, its even easier if you call him at that time since you won't take it personally if he rejects you...But I don't know if you have to wait a set period of time for love...When its there you have to seize it, but you must do it tactfully and with your head, not your heart, as most people like to believe...He does care, believe me...and don't get hung up on the cheating...Its done, you either deal with it, or don't deal with it and move on. THAT IS A FACT, that he did it...He can't take that back anymore than a woman can reclaim her virginity once its been taken...Of course trust will be an issue, but if your willing to deal with that and forgive and forget then why not give it a try?

[mlchildr]

lisaria,

 

I am sort of the same situatuin as you. We were together two years and been broken up for three months. Three days after we broke up he was with someone else. I don't mean just dating they were practically living togehter after three days. He swears there was nothing going on before we broke up but it is to hard for me to believe. Plus his friends told me they had something going on. I want him back bu tdon't know if i could trust him.

 

He has came back to me twice confused as to what he wants. He always comes back when they are arguing. I know that he still loves me but i don't really know who he is anymore or what he is doing. I am sticking with no contact right now because i am tired of getting hurt.

 

I really don't think that it will work out with the other woman. They are alrady fighting in the first three months and have broken up twice.

 

I say that we just be patient and see what happens but don't stop living your life. i have had to change my whole life because of this but i do know that i can go on without him if we never get back togehter.

[princesa]

Hello Lisa.

 

Look, I think you are intelligent enough to know what's best for you. But it kind of scares me to read all these advices and talks that say 'if you want him back and love him, then go for it'...Sometimes, always I'd say, no matter how much we love and want them to love us has nothing to do with how stable and long lasting the relationship can be. Yes, maybe you get some guy that cheated you to come back, and yes, maybe it will make you feel better to be close to him. But in the long run, will you be able to trust him? A person who has cheated once and has been forgiven for that, will cheat again - I'm 100% sure of that, by a very very painful own experience. Please think about that. Besides, I can tell you that you WILL find a guy who will respect you and love you a lot more.

 

Sorry, but I really can't see why you are adviced to fight for this guy who doesn't respect you. You're better off without him. Even if it hurts.

 

Hugs,

Princesa

[pepsimax]

Deb, I'm going to see if I can't get a copy of that book, women who love too much. Just the name says that's for me. I feel like I do love too much. Him especially and it can't be healthy. Not after what he did. No matter how charming, fun, or how many promises he made. He's not worth it. I have to remember that. I have to be strong.

 

Deb also recommended the book to me. It has OPENED MY EYES. A 'woman who loves too much' with a 'commitmentphobe' - the ultimate unhealthy match. It doesn't stop you wanting but it does stop you wishing... if you know what I mean.

[debisfun]

Lisa,

 

I emphatically disagree with Kipster's advice. Do NOT, do NOT, do NOT NOT NOT contact him or keep wishing for him to come back. It's incredibly unhealthy and will keep you from moving on. I was watching Judging Amy last night.....she broke up with a guy because he freaked out and ran. He wanted to come back, but she told him that there was no way that she would do that to herself or her daughter. What kind of mother would she be if she showed her that it was okay to be treated that way in a relationship?

 

Think about it. We are teaching our children what to expect by our actions. I know that I "learned" alot from my childhood.....quite a bit of it I'm trying to "unlearn"! You might think that you are hiding your feelings from your child, and that they don't know what is going on -- but don't kid yourself. Children are waaaaay more preceptive than we give them credit for.

 

People who say "well, if you still love him than go for it" are personalizing the situation to what THEY want. It's not the right thing for you. You did not have a little argument over where to eat for dinner. He CHEATED on you! He BROKE UP with you! He was cruel, insensitive, and now he is trying to mask his guilt with telling non-truths. While he may harbor some positive feelings when thinking about the "good times", he does NOT love you! I'm sure this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sorry.

 

PLEASE get the book "Women Who Love Too Much". Another few to get (can you tell I read a lot?) are:

 

"Men Who Can't Love" -- Everything you've written about him point that your ex is a classic commitmentphobe. Charming and wonderful in the beginning, hurtful and cruel in the end. You really need to open your eyes

 

"Don't Call That Man" -- gives GREAT advice on how to NOT act on your feelings.

 

Lisa, I know it's easy for me to give advice. In some ways I feel hypocritical, because I can't always take my own advice. I'm trying my best to stop wanting my ex, and to accept the fact that he needs to be gone and out of my life. It's not a healthy relationship, and never will be unless HE gets some intense therapy to deal with HIS issues.

 

After the phone call I got on Monday night, I was talking to a friend of mine. I told her that if I was my friend, I would be slapping me silly. I should never have talked to him as long as I did....it's easy for him to want to miss me -- the pressure is off him and he no longer feels the anxiety. However, I know that if I let him back in, the cycle will repeat itself. I can NEVER go through again what I've gone through this past month. Neither should you.

 

At some point you need to start believing in yourself. You need to start believeing that it's okay to protect yourself and it's okay to expect to be treated with respect, compassion, consideration, and love.

 

You can do this.

[kipster]

Lisa,

 

I emphatically disagree with Kipster's advice. Do NOT, do NOT, do NOT NOT NOT contact him or keep wishing for him to come back. It's incredibly unhealthy and will keep you from moving on. I was watching Judging Amy last night.....she broke up with a guy because he freaked out and ran. He wanted to come back, but she told him that there was no way that she would do that to herself or her daughter. What kind of mother would she be if she showed her that it was okay to be treated that way in a relationship?

 

Well debi, you're free to disagree and I certainly respect your opinion However, I do not see anything 'incredibly unhealthy' about contacting an EX? People break-up and get back together everyday? Some of which I'm sure you know? Its not like calling an EX is commition a cardinal sin, breaking a commandment, a psychological disorder, etc..To me that's silly. Some people who get married even have their EX's attend their wedding and go on to be great friends with them, so I don't see where this perception of unhealthiness stems from....Moreover, I don't see how a Movie validates that perception any more than a comic book would validate that people can have superpowers...Remember its a movie, fiction...

 

Clearly, Lisa desires her EX and to contact him. There's no harm in that at all...She's not obsessing over him, stalking him, etc..Just giving him a call..and moreover, I assume she's not a child so no need to worry about any social learning going on. Instead, it could be an opportunity to re-kindle something that she's decided she now wants...I don't see any fault in that...Instead, what I see fault in is believing that people CAN'T change their mind (when they do it multiple times a day) or that going back into a relationship NECESSARILY means it will be an exercise in FUTILITY...As long as she knows the risks and potential rewards, what's the problem?

 

People who say "well, if you still love him than go for it" are personalizing the situation to what THEY want. It's not the right thing for you. You did not have a little argument over where to eat for dinner. He CHEATED on you! He BROKE UP with you! He was cruel, insensitive, and now he is trying to mask his guilt with telling non-truths. While he may harbor some positive feelings when thinking about the "good times", he does NOT love you! I'm sure this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sorry.

 

How can you say, "its not the right thing for her"? Yes, he cheated on her...She knows that and that can't be changed! I agree..However, if she can LIVE WITH THAT and is willing to see what the future holds then what's the problem in a simply call? Yes, he broke up with her...And many of us here have been broken up with...Does that mean everyone should always move on and give up? With that kind of sentiment, its no wonder divorce rates are the way they are...people no longer want to work on their problems they want to quit and take the easy way out....sometimes even at the expense of losing a life long partner...Hey, I guess to each his own..

 

PLEASE get the book "Women Who Love Too Much". Another few to get (can you tell I read a lot?) are: ...

 

Also, let's not get too caught up in all these books...because take a guess who writes many of them, people just like you and me...And sometimes even the authors have some of the worst relationships themselves..I'm not saying don't read, but don't believe in everything you see inside of a book...They are helpful, but there not the end all be all to life experiences (and trust me I've read my fair share of them). Honestly, speaking I think some of these relationship books are no more helpful than talking to divorcee's in that they may even be written by bitter people. Just look at many of the titles you presented...They ALMOST ALL focus on how to end a relationship as opposed to HOW TO MEND ONE...JUST look on the bookshelfs...Everyone's writing about moving on, but no one's writing about sticking it out and forging a REAL RELATIONSHIP that stands the test of time....AGAIN, SIMPLE OBSERVATION WILL GO FURTHER IN THE LONG RUN THAN ANY SINGLE BOOK...Just humble opinion...

 

 

At some point you need to start believing in yourself. You need to start believeing that it's okay to protect yourself and it's okay to expect to be treated with respect, compassion, consideration, and love.

 

You can do this.

 

I do agree with this statement whole heartedly though! However, its not unrealistic to believe that a CHANGED EX can provide these things. And there's NO guarantee that the next man you meet will give you these things either! The grass isn't necessarily always greener..cliches aside...Its about communication and understanding each other..And at the root of that is ACTUALLY TALKING...Which is precisely what Lisa is debating doing with the EX....As long as she can handle it, I say have at it...If its not what you want, you can always move on!

[debisfun]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. (sorry, I really think you are WAY off base.)

 

1. It's unhealthy if maintaining contact with your ex causes pain and hurt. From what I can tell, there is NOTHING about Lisa's ex's behaviour that suggest he will do otherwise. He's a lying cheat.

 

2. I used the show "Judging Amy" as an example of how to be strong when faced with a person who mistreats you. It's am example of how a parent's behaviour WILL impact their children's lives and teaches them what is acceptable. In this case, putting up with a man who is disrepectful and uncaring is NOT healthy. I certainly would not want to be sending my children the message that it's okay to take that from people.

 

3. Yes, Lisa desires to contact her ex. Just about everybody who is dumped desires to contact their ex. (I'm no different). The point it was trying to make is unless something dramatically changed in her ex (not just "honey I'm sorry"), there is no reason to expect that he won't bolt again. The best predictor of future behaviour is past actions.

 

4. Please don't pull the divorce thing. She is NOT married at this point. There is no reason for her to put up with someone who is a cheater and can't give her the emotional commitment that she deserves.

 

5. And yes, the books I recommend ARE about moving on. They ARE about learning to recognize toxic relationships so that you can identify YOUR part and learn to understand what YOU can do to avoid that type of pain and hurt again. They are about becoming strong, gaining your self-esteem back, and learning to accept yourself. All healthy things. Unless BOTH partners put in a lot of work (especially when the problems are as big as Lisa's), it really is futile to for her to keep trying.

 

6. The point of NO CONTACT is to heal. Talking to your ex (especially someone who is telling non-truths about the ending of the relationship) in no way will enable her to get better. She will just open up old wounds.

 

7. Part of what she needs to learn is how to identify men who will treat her poorly, and learn how not to "give away the farm" too early. It's very difficult with a man like her ex. He will say and do things that are complete 180 degrees oppposite of each other. She probably focuses on the good stuff, while glossing over and ignoring the warning signs (something I've been guilty of as well).

 

Bottom line, she needs to figure out how to let go and get strong. Hoping for a change of heart from the ex is not in her best interest.

[kipster]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. (sorry, I really think you are WAY off base.)

 

1. It's unhealthy if maintaining contact with your ex causes pain and hurt. From what I can tell, there is NOTHING about Lisa's ex's behaviour that suggest he will do otherwise. He's a lying cheat.

 

I'll be brief and then leave the last rebuttal to you on this one....Way off base huh? Well, lets test your little pseudo-theory...I've cheated on a woman and lied to them before, but does that make me 'a lying cheat as well" (if your 'loose hypothesis' is correct)...I'd argue it isn't since I haven't repeated that behavior in over 15 years, so obviously behavior can change as can attitudes...I'm living proof of it...You've changed your mind yourself...You admitted you loved your EX early on in your own relationship and I would assumed you stayed with him for some time, while you now subscribe to the notion that he's 'unhealthy', needs 'major therapy', etc. So even your own behavior, attitutde, and assessment toward him has gone full circle...Then I ask, why is it so impossible to even fathom that people can change and learn from their experiences, when you've done it yourself?

 

2. I used the show "Judging Amy" as an example of how to be strong when faced with a person who mistreats you. It's am example of how a parent's behaviour WILL impact their children's lives and teaches them what is acceptable. In this case, putting up with a man who is disrepectful and uncaring is NOT healthy. I certainly would not want to be sending my children the message that it's okay to take that from people.

 

I'm not against a person 'being strong', please note where I stated otherwise. I indeed said that if SHE CAN DEAL WITH THE EX and is AWARE OF WHAT SHE'S GETTING INTO than what's the problem...She can always move on if she doesn't like what she sees right? You seem to forget this notion all together...In addition, I agree that parental behavior CAN IMPACT CHILDREN as can a VIDEO GAME or even the MASS MEDIA...However, I don't believe that lisa is an infant or without knowledge of what she's getting into...If she understands the RISKS and the potential REWARDS, then why not explore them if she can HANDLE THE OUTCOME....

 

3. Yes, Lisa desires to contact her ex. Just about everybody who is dumped desires to contact their ex. (I'm no different). The point it was trying to make is unless something dramatically changed in her ex (not just "honey I'm sorry"), there is no reason to expect that he won't bolt again. The best predictor of future behaviour is past actions.

 

How will she know if SOMETHING DRAMATICALLY HAS CHANGED if she NEVER CONTACTS HIM? Please explain that to me? To find that out at the very least, some for of contact would need to take place wouldn't it? True, he may bolt again...That is a RISK THAT I BELIEVE she's aware of...However, there's ALSO A CHANCE that he has changed for the better (as I have in a very short time) and have learned from his behavior...

 

And yes, a good predictor of future behavior is prior behavior...But its not the ONLY PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR...If that was the case, many noble men/women would still be locked behind bars for their prior transgression in their teens and early adulthood...The key is learning and that's what life is all about...Now if he was abusive then of course I'd say move on...But I don't get that perception and I do believe we all deserve a second chance at the very least....

 

4. Please don't pull the divorce thing. She is NOT married at this point. There is no reason for her to put up with someone who is a cheater and can't give her the emotional commitment that she deserves.

 

Why on earth not? I could just have easily said that's why we have a high rate of 'break-ups' accross levels. No she's not married, but how do you know for CERTAIN that this person can't provide that support for her after time for reflection? If everyone was a rigid in their thinking as this, no relationship would ever work...Plus, there's no guarantee that ANY MAN SHE MEETS WILL BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT EITHER? Its a chance you take in EVERY RELATIONSHIP...

 

5. And yes, the books I recommend ARE about moving on. They ARE about learning to recognize toxic relationships so that you can identify YOUR part and learn to understand what YOU can do to avoid that type of pain and hurt again. They are about becoming strong, gaining your self-esteem back, and learning to accept yourself. All healthy things. Unless BOTH partners put in a lot of work (especially when the problems are as big as Lisa's), it really is futile to for her to keep trying.

 

Exactly, I could tell that even without knowing the titles of them. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being able to recognize toxicity in an relationship...All that I'm saying is you can't believe everything you read, no book is a PANACEA for every relationship...Hell, even the authors argue amongst themselves on whos THEORY is correct...And again, there's no substitute for practical experience...What's she got to lose if she calls him after say a month? What 50 cents in a phone booth? What may she stand to gain if this guy has matured? What a lifetime of happiness? You do the math....

 

6. The point of NO CONTACT is to heal. Talking to your ex (especially someone who is telling non-truths about the ending of the relationship) in no way will enable her to get better. She will just open up old wounds.

 

I agree! That's why I stated, "GIVE IT AT LEAST A FEW MONTHS..YOU CAN'T PUT A TIME LIMIT ON LOVE"...I agree talking to the person THE DAY AFTER is foolish...Perhaps I should have been more explicit?

 

Bottom line, she needs to figure out how to let go and get strong. Hoping for a change of heart from the ex is not in her best interest.

 

Well, I agree that she does need to get strong, no question...But I don't see where contacting an EX just to 'catch up' isn't in her BEST INTEREST if she is well aware of the risks and potential rewards that can happen...At worst, she hangs up, knows it over and as you said she 'lets go'...At best, "she learns this guy has changed, has always cared for her, and she has a friend (at worst) for a lifetime (not even saying a husband or soulmate)". If she's HEALED, what's the problem? As I said, I'll respectfully await your final word on the topic...I'm sure its forthcoming

[princesa]

Hi everybody,

 

well well...you surely are having a dispute here. Poor Lisa must be all confused! Or are you taking this as an entertainment? Maybe it's just meant to be a distraction, good one guys...that's what we all need anyways, distraction from wondering about our exs!

 

But I do have to say I very very much agree with Deb. It's a piece of very dangerous advice that you are giving there Kipster!!

Even if you didn't cheat again, what are the chances Lisas's ex won't??? I'd say one in a million...And if you're saying, that the chances are he really won't cheat again and that he really has realised he truly loves Lisa...I don't think that's the point. The point is will Lisa ever be able to trust him again? Imagine, maybe he didn't cheat again, but Lisa would still never be able to forget what he did. It's no life being aware and suspecting all the time. Besides, by staying with a guy that's toxic for her, that she's addicted to, maybe she'd miss out on a true harmony and affection that she could (and will...) find with somebody that may not be as charismatic and cool as the scumbag, but at least he'd make her happy.

 

I can only repeat my own experience: I was cheated really badly, forgave him just because I was too afraid of losing him...well, then I had him but no trust, no real love, no future really. And oh yes, he was sooooooo regretful, he swore he loved me and he didn't know what had got into him and he'd never do that again and he'd always love me etc. But he did. A couple of months after that he left me for another, not even the same girl I know he cheated me with (I wonder how many were there)!! So you can imagine I wished nothing more than I had had the strength to kick him out after the first cheating... After recovery I was really angry with myself and decided to take no BS from anybody anymore.

And I know many stories like this...I guess I haven't been the only woman who loved too much the wrong guy...and Kipster, I really haven't ever heard of ANY guy story where the guy cheated only once and then never again...

 

Look Lisa, you too deserve the very best. And like you tell the others, it will come to you too. We just need a little patience. After this cheating guy I've met 2 others that I've loved as much. Fair enough these stories didn't work out either, but the point is I did recover from that one back then, and I found other men to love. Back then I thought I'd never recover. I thought I'd never forget, and I haven't forgotten, sure enough, that mistake is still carved in my memory as a warning example!! And at least I'd say these other guys that I've had deserved my affection a lot more than my ex scumbag...

 

Listen to Debisfun. I think she can better put herself into your situation. And don't forget we are here for you.

 

Hugs, Princesa

[lisaria]

Hey people,

I am grateful for all of your advice and it helps me to hear both sides of this. I am very confused and scared to do anything right now.

Kip, I agree with you. And deb, I agree with you too. princesa, I also think what you had to say was right.

He cheated, he lied. There were ouside circumstances that contributed to the whole thing going down the drain. His ex-wife playing headgames. My insecurities showing up, my b!t$hiness showing up too. I tried and I think that he did too. Of course, my mom calling him and explaining her take on the situation and telling him how wrong he was for leading me on and what goes around comes around didn't help any either. (I wanted to fall through the floor when he told me about that). But the thing is he didn't have to do it. Like I've said he made that choice. We all have choices and that was his. I could have made the choice to live with it and have him around, but I have too much self-respect to share any man with another woman. I wish sometimes I had kept silent, but I could not do that. The last fight we had, I started because he was being very distant that night. The same way he acted before I found out about the other woman. I automatically assumed he was thinking of someone else. The trust issue rose it's dirty little head barely a month after we decided to work it out. He swore he wasn't interested in anyone else and maybe he wasn't and he had said he didn't feel very well. I just automatically assumed it had to be someone else. There you go, the trust issue again. I tried to explain the next day (Superbowl Sunday), and how the trust would not come back overnight that we had to work on it. By then I think he had made up his mind that he didn't want to work on it. He had the phone call from his "ex-wife" or so he said, I know it wasn't though. It was someone else female. He didn't want me near him, sitting with him, touching him, didn't want to make love. He had already gotten in contact with whoever he wanted then. I do believe that. If he did it before Saturday night I don't know. It kills me to know that maybe he really had not then because then the breakup would have been finalized by my actions. It had started with his and I just finished it I guess.

I loved him so much and I guess I still do. I never told him. That kind of kills me too. Maybe if I had it would have been better, I don't know. I do know that if you love someone then tell them. At first I was glad I had never told him, pride you know. But now I wish that I had.

mlchildr, I'm sorry that you are going through this too. pepsi, I will get through it also, I do know that I had a life before him and I'll have one without him, I just want him in it. If it's not meant to be then it won't happen. Why is there so much cheating and lying going on? So many wounded people like us, healing slowly and wondering what ifs.

I wrote an email yesterday to him, but of course didn't send it. It was pretty upbeat, just telling him about how things were and what I was up to. You would have been proud guys. I saved it in my drafts and who knows? Maybe I'll send it today or tomorrow. Or never. I don't have to decide that now, but I am so very afraid that he will ignore me. I am scared to talk to him on the phone because I know he would hear the nervousness in my voice and that would mean I would have too much to lose if it means that much to me right now.

Do you guys think that maybe he does still have a spark for me that can be flamed again? I just don't know anything about what is really going on with his life. What if it is just pride holding us back? I know that if I don't contact him I will always regret it. Of course, if I contact him now I could get very hurt again. I am definitely not strong enough right now. But I will be one day and hopefully soon and then I may just throw my pride to the wind. I'll just get through the next minute, hour, and day until I am healed. I will definitely do it with my head this time, if I can figure out how to do that. I seem to be very emotionally oriented when it comes to him. How do you start thinking with your head and not your heart if you aren't made that way?

Thanks guys for all of your input and advice. I am so glad you are all here.

Lisa

[kipster]

Do you guys think that maybe he does still have a spark for me that can be flamed again? I just don't know anything about what is really going on with his life.

 

Hi Lisa! I undersand where your coming from and have been on both sides of the coin (the guy who cheated) and the person who's been cheated on (the same girl I initially cheated on) so I understand your feelings and I firmly believe they are valid...No question...My advice...I believe this man probably DOES have a spark for you. I don't know how strong or how weak to be honest, but its amazing what time apart from a person we really care for can do to our hearts as men....But, if you never contact him...How will you EVER KNOW? You'll play the WHAT IF game forever...Its just my opinion that sometimes people give up too easily as if the NEVER EXPECT any adversity in their relationship...BY DEFINITION a relationship requires effort, work, empathy, support, forgiveness, etc..And all realtionships, whether good or bad have those elements to varying degrees...I personally know a couple that's been married for 50 years and about 15 years ago, the wife found out the husband was cheating and had an illegitimate son that was in his 40's...She had a choice to make...And she chose to forgive and forget...And you know what, she said she wouldn't change a thing...Sometimes, the only way to get to that rainbow is to go through some rain initially..We are all human and make mistakes, but many of us do change, perhaps sometimes not as QUICKLY AS OUR PARTNER WANTS US TO...But we often don't UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER'S NEEDS...That's why I'd suggest, if you do want to read a helpful book for you and your EX, or current BF, I'd suggest the "Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus Book for starters" and forget about some of these other, "Stop loving that man" or "Once a cheat always a cheat" (generally written by a bitter woman herself) books...Understand what makes him happy and also how to interpret his responses, and in turn encourage him to read about what you look for...It should be a MUST READ FOR ALL COUPLES AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP AND IT SHOULD BE PERIODICALLY READ THROUGHOUT IMHO!

 

What if it is just pride holding us back? I know that if I don't contact him I will always regret it. Of course, if I contact him now I could get very hurt again. I am definitely not strong enough right now. But I will be one day and hopefully soon and then I may just throw my pride to the wind. I'll just get through the next minute, hour, and day until I am healed. I will definitely do it with my head this time, if I can figure out how to do that. I seem to be very emotionally oriented when it comes to him. How do you start thinking with your head and not your heart if you aren't made that way?

Thanks guys for all of your input and advice. I am so glad you are all here.

Lisa

 

All I'm saying is if/when you're strong enough to call him (which as you said above you aren't right now..and that's O.K.) don't be AFRAID to do so...You know the risks they are simply: YOU CAN BE HURT AGAIN IF YOU STILL LOVE HIM AND HE TELLS YOU THAT HE NO LONGER LOVES YOU OR WANTS TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH YOU....THERE I said it and made it explicit..That's the worst case scenario..A wound is opened again, you'll have to heal, etc...But the less you care for him or the more realistic you are about the potential outcome the smaller that wound will be

 

BEST CASE SCENARIO: You can call and have a great SHORT CONVERSATION (take no more than 10 min. max) and find out that just as you've been thinking of him, he's been thinking of you..But at this stage, I wouldn't mention ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR PRIOR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM UNLESS HE TAKES IT THERE! Use a soothing tone and he will not be expecting it, sound happy and confident when you talk as well, this way he won't hear any timidness in your voice....Be the first one off of the phone as well, saying at 10 minutes "its been nice catching up, maybe we can talk sometime in the future" and leave it at that...That conversation will let you know where you stand....And you can adjust accordingly...

 

Personally, in my situation I've had to check my pride at the door to not let a woman that I love immensly, but neglected get away...Sometimes in life you only meet a 'perfect' match one time...Yes, some person may come 10 years later that's good or maybe 20, but why continue to fish if you've already made a great catch? Why give up the familiar for the unknown when with the proper guidance the familiar can work? Just be smart and not let your feelings cloud your judgment and understand that even if the best case scenario materializes its still going to be A MAJOR UPHILL BATTLE, and ask yourself IS HE WORTH IT? IF IN YOUR HEART YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT HE IS AND THIS IS WHAT YOU REALLY WANT, THEN I SAY GO FOR IT...But you'll never know unless you try...What does it really cost you in the long run? Lets say he doesn't want to be bothered with you? O.K., lets say it takes a few months to heal...O.K., whats a few months of an entire lifetime vs. a potential lifelong partner (the same question I've had to present to myself on a daily basis)...But again, you'll never know unless you give it a shot!

 

And finally, by using your head I mean just that.....Using your heart is what made those statements that you said you regretted and probably what made your mother call him...using your heart is probably also which makes you sure it was ANOTHER WOMAN on that phone that he was having sex with...By using your head, you'd be able to realize first that you don't NEED ANYONE to survive, only that you PREFER HIM. So if it doesn't work out, you only lose a preference, not a necessity...Secondarily, do not beg, plead, cry, tell him how much you love him, etc...Your actions will do that and those actions never work and stem from a broken 'heart'. I'm not saying wait on him, but you can certainly call him and be dating others...There's no harm in that...Just be smart and not let your heart guide your efforts..

[princesa]

Hi Lisa.

 

How about No Contact...apparently it does work, they say...If I was you wouldn't call myself. If he does have a spark for you, he'll call. That's what I think of my ex too, if he was in love with me, there was nothing to keep him from calling!!!

Anyways, you know best!

 

 

hugs, princesa

[debisfun]

Lisa,

 

*sigh*. I can really emphasize with the pain that you are feeling.

 

You need to trust your intincts. The reason why he was acting withdrawn and distant is because HE WAS WITHDRAWN AND DISTANT. There is absolutely NOTHING you could have said or done to change that situation. This is about HIM, not about you. The very fact that he was able to jump into another relationship so quickly is proof that he is unable to really provide a lasting emotional commitment.

 

Be glad that you found out now.

 

But for the sake of argument -- let's say I'm wrong. What if there WAS something that you did that drove him away (which I seriously doubt). That absolutely positively does NOT give him the green light to have an affair. That's immature, low-life, and just so wrong on just about every level.

 

Let's continue the argument --- you somehow manage to rationalize his cheating and can forgive him. (arrrrghhhh). What makes you think that ANYTHING has changed in his behaviour? This man is talking crap about you!

 

Okay -- let's say that he is feeling remorseful and wants to make amends. Why should YOU be the one to make contact? He's the one who broke up with you. He knows where you are. If by some miracle, he wants to "come bacK", he should be the one to do the calling and rebuilding of the trust.

 

Continuing on -- you say that you are afraid that he may be too proud or feel too bad to call. SO WHAT!!!! If he can't swallow his pride and admit he made a mistake, and make every effort to show that he has changed and will NEVER EVER to that again --- then why do you want him?

 

Please do NOT CONTACT him. Take all the energy you are wasting on him and turn it to yourself. It's going to take a while for the "wanting him" thoughts to go away, but they will. And when they do, you'll be saying to yourself "What was I thinking?????"

 

Good Luck.

[lisaria]

kipster, it's kind of funny that you mentioned the mars and venus book. I gave him my copy to read when we first started getting serious. We joked about it. I guess it didn't help any.

[kipster]

kipster, it's kind of funny that you mentioned the mars and venus book. I gave him my copy to read when we first started getting serious. We joked about it. I guess it didn't help any.

 

You can't just GIVE IT TO HIM, your timing has to be precise unless MEN WILL GET THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SUBTLY CHANGE THEM...TIMING IS IMPORTANT...Its like a man whose trying to get his woman back giving it to her after a break-up to try to show her his perspective...You must be very sensitive with timing...That's why I say at the beginning of the relationship

[lisaria]

Hey everybody,

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You all made me stop and think. I did not call him or email him. I am feeling so much stronger today. I was hurting earlier, but now ok...there is still a dull ache, but it's subsiding. Thank you. I am not strong enough to contact him, kip. But when I get ready (if I ever do) I'm coming to you for back up.

Deb, thanks for your support. I have ordered the Women who love too much book. Should get it next week. You are right and I knew it, just suppressed it or something the last few days. He cheated. I didn't. I wanted to work on things, he chose a different way to handle it. The immature, lowlife, scumbag way to handle our problems. I just have a problem with remembering the bad things right now. Even though he is still lying I remember the good things about him and the bad things don't seem so bad. Sheesh!!! What does it take? I have to get strong enough to not ever let him have any kind of power over me ever again. I have to keep it and use it for me and mine to be the best we can be.

princesa, I don't know what's best right now. At least not for me, I can give out the advice, just not strong enough to trust it for me. When I'm weak anyway, and boy! was I was weak this week. But not today.

I feel able to get through it once again.

I don't know when or even if I'll be blindsided by him or his actions again. I do know that I love him, probably always will. We all loved our exes, but that's not enough, is it? It takes two in a relationship and I guess, most of us didn't have that. But thanks to this site, we all know we've got someone out there to give us a hand up. Someone who knows what we're going through and willing to be here for us.

Thank you to all out there who took the time to help me. You are all special people. We are strong enough to get through this! And for those who are reading this....hang in there everybody, we all deserve better and eventually we will get it.

Lisa