pepsimax

thanks miss jones for your reply. i just got back from a weekend away with my friend. we were a little bored and tetchy. that was a good thing in a weird way, it made me realise i idealise our friendship sometimes. yesterday he left for another city and i was quite upset after we parted. he left to stay with a girl who had previously tried to chat him up in a bar when i was there. i notice that my reaction to what he might be doing is worse than before. not as bad as with a friend, but still, usually i manage to brush off his encounters with strangers but this time it's bothering me. my first thought when he left was to email him, but i have managed to resist so far. i won't see him for three weeks and i need to use this time to compose myself. i have used no contact in the past and it worked very well - is there any chance that using it for just three weeks will help me out? i really do want to meet someone great but my constant attraction to him, which has been ongoing for well over a year, is destroying any chance of that happening. nobody seems interested and i think it's because everyone knows how attached i am. miss jones - like you i can identify things that wouldn't work. his outrageously flirtatious nature would completely wear me out. "I think he likes the attention flirting brings without getting attached." - exactly. also he wants some kind of open relationship, which i would consider, but not with him, because i care about him too much for that to work. the fact i am already so jealous proves that. but when i am around him, and things are going well, i am completely enchanted. i'm not sure what other word to use... i just can't think realistically, it just seems really natural and fun, we seem to have a bond or something. i've never had that feeling before. of course, half the time it's not like that, we're bored or irritable or not getting on, but as long as the feeling comes back, i continue to chase it. thanks for the advice. this is a really incredibly difficult thing to deal with - it is making me feel stupid and emotionally immature, and my friends (even one who has just split with her boyfriend of a year) are devoting a lot of time to snapping me out of it, which doesn't seem to be working at all.

thanks for your continuing help. i must resurrect this post because there has been what i consider a significant development. myself and simon hadn't slept together since early july, but this weekend, it happened again. we were out-of-it both times, but less so the second night. the first was kind of a mutual thing and could have been put down to a "mistake" if we wanted to do that... we were VERY drunk. the second time, i asked to stay over because i was tired, but joked that i wouldn't touch him. when we laid down, i thought it was for sleep. i was extremely surprised he wanted to do it again. that's why i have no idea what to think. we were pretty drunk that time too (yes, it's been a party weekend), but we have slept in the same bed in a similar state before and nothing has happened. i have no idea if he is still casually seeing the other person. there is no reason to think he isn't, but i daren't ask at the moment, because i know i will be heartbroken if he is - even more so than before. they did speak on saturday, but he went home with me instead of her, and i don't know what was said. it has not been mentioned today (sober). we are both aware but are obviously too scared to mention it (this is what normally happens). what am i saying? i guess i am getting my hopes up again, or something... i know i have potentially dug myself a massive hole emotionally, but there is obviously a sexual side to our friendship that we cannot seem to stamp out, and do not always seem to want to stamp out.

Thanks for your time Fisch... Yes I did want a relationship with him... about a year ago it looked like we would start seeing each other seriously, but he backed off, blaming his obsession with his ex girlfriend (he had destroyed their relationship and then felt bad). We have never been great at communicating and our failed attempt at having a relationship was never really properly discussed, except that he admitted he was wrong to lead me on several times and then effectively 'dump' me. Learning to deal with it seems to be my only option as you said... since I don't want to stop seeing him. I am afraid of losing his company but I can't deny that the jealousy seems a little too strong for it to be JUST that. I am finding it hard to drop thoughts like "does he like her more than he likes me?" - which is a BIG tell-tale sign - the answer is obviously yes, and that makes me feel crushed. But he is also my brother figure, it's a mix. I did storm out of a club crying on Friday when he tried to kiss this new girl right in front of me. He knew I was hurt and he did it anyway which really upset me (he says he can't remember). I realise it would help me to see less of him but we're doing so many things as a team, we will obviously hang out a lot as a result. He's going away for a while and I'm hoping I can use this time to concentrate on my other friends and try to build a slightly different routine. Thanks for taking the time to help me out, I am having a really hard time with this at the moment, and right now our interactions are awkward and distant which is making me feel worse.

I have been friends with Simon for a year. I've known him for longer but we started talking more because he chatted me up at a club and our relationship grew from realising we liked hanging out, and occasionally having sex again. He didn't want a relationship with me and always wanted the sexual side to stop dead, but never quite managed to hold that resolve entirely. (At this point I should say it has been three months since we had any sexual contact). However - in this time we have become best friends. I speak to him all day some days on AIM. We do a lot together and we have done a lot of travelling, about four months of travelling in the past year, we go out a lot together and like doing the same things. We playfight, hang out, drink, go to clubs, do creative things, make plans, travel. He is my big brother, the best, older male friend I have been looking for since my brother left home when I was 5 and never cared about me again. I have always been very uncomfortable when he started going for other women. I'm jealous, although whether in a sexual way or a best-friend way, I can't tell. I know he is an intolerable flirt and I know I can't get into any more relationships with people like that. But it's becoming clearer to me I am always scared that I will lose "my best friend Simon", i.e. the person I can call on a Friday and say "so, where shall we go?". Whatever, it hurts me. He has recently started sleeping with a friend of mine who is in an open relationship, and I am finding it unbearably hard to deal with. It has become a mess - it has prompted late night conversations about the nature of our friendship. He told me last night that he sees this girl as special somehow and intends to carry on seeing her - this is all tied in with how hurt I was when I found out and how inconsiderate he was at the time, knowing I was hurt, by doing it again literally right in front of me. The whole thing is in jeapordy now, because I don't know how to deal with the feelings I have, nor do I know how to accept that I might lose the sibling-like relationship we have, either through my own inability to deal with it, or his desire to chase this girl who is the absolute object of his affections, despite the fact her boyfriend is one of his best friends. My friends tell me that Simon is a bit of a scumbag and best avoided, he has something of a reputation. But to cut all ties with him seems totally impossible given how close we are. What do I do now?

The guy I recently split from originally lived further away and yep, it was miserable, so I know what you're saying. Don't worry, I'm taking it all into account... doesn't make the situation any easier of course

I completely agree with you. I've read several books on this phenomenon... 'He's Scared, She's Scared' being the best one. Believe me, if I hadn't recognised a bad pattern in my behaviour, I wouldn't have bothered to research it. Now I am completely aware of my tendency to be attracted to evasive, emotionally unavailable men. I don't think the second guy is "boring" and I didn't mean it to come accross that way. He's amazingly talented and creative. I just mean he's not 'thrilling' in the same way. He doesn't have the big doe-eyes that the exciting guy has, but neither does he have the infuriating and hurtful indecision or lack of commitment. I don't choose to go after the 'bad guys' but, as previous replies pointed out, there is something about the thrill of a chase that some people are attracted to. I wouldn't have ever put myself in this category because I'm looking for stability, not drama. But I can see that something in my subconscious is pushing me in the opposite direction. Anyway, I have been in touch with the second guy this week. He has called me twice since I posted and I can tell he really likes me. I have decided to go see him at the weekend. I can't ignore my feelings for the first guy, and he is still very appealing and part of my life (for one thing, he lives around the corner... the other guy lives hundreds of miles away). But as you said, I am thinking more than two days ahead. I just don't want my own internal mix-ups to end up hurting or confusing anyone which is why I'm very very aware that I need to make every decision with my eyes wide open.

Um, not really sure what you're trying to say, to be honest.

I didn't break it off, my ex boyfriend did. We had been living together for four of the five years and I had suggested marriage as well. [Edit.. sorry, I can see how the wording in my post above was confusing. When I said "broke up from", I meant "was dumped from"]

Thanks for the response, especially the first part... I have trouble finding the commitmentphobia in myself since I long for a committed long-term relationship. I actually broke up from a five year relationship in April this year and have never cheated or had any one night stands etc. Perhaps I'm trying to tame a man that seems to be out of control? I'm not sure... I just know the first guy seems more exciting and thrilling to be around... maybe that's normal though?

Lots of eye contact, lots of smiling. Be bright and breezy and tell her you're really looking forward to it, and you think it's gonna be loads of fun. Don't look nervy or paranoid and don't put pressure on her. She will want to be with you if you're fun to be around!

This is a pretty classic problem but I'm still a little stuck with it. Guy 1 is a friend who I have had an intense on/off relationship with since September. We flirt, hug and are going on holiday together. Our relationship is close and emotionally confusing, but strictly platonic for a few months now, since he's still in love with his ex. He is attractive, intelligent and always persued by women. He has a history of promiscuity, aloofness and commitmentphobia, but there is a massive spark and excitement between us. Guy 2 is a friend who was in town for a couple of days and we ended up getting together. He is attractive and intelligent but the intense spark and excitement is not there. However, he seems to really like me, and I think he would treat me like a queen. He is stable, sensible, doesn't drink, is reliable, kind, wants to settle down and so on. He's shorter than me and definitely less my 'type' physically than guy 1. So, my problem. I have said to guy 2 I will go see him (and some other friends) at the weekend, but I am worried that my feelings for guy 1 are stronger. Those feelings might just come from my attraction to unhealthy relationships with a commitmentphobic men, and I should stop persuing him anyway, seeing as he has told me he doesn't want to be with me. Are the calm, stable guys always going to seem less thrilling to me than the dangerous, unhealthy guys? Should I expect this, and is it normal for me to feel this way? I really want to stop hurting myself by becoming involved with men who can't or won't commit, but I also don't want to hurt these two wonderful people by making the wrong choice.

Hey Jenn. Thanks for the reply. I think there are a few things I'm already doing right: - I never mention the ex. He mentions her often - I am sympathetic, but tell him my comments would be biased so I won't talk about it further. - I don't pester him by calling him etc. - I don't initiate IMs. - I stopped sending emails/texts unless he initiates. - When he does email/text I send very nice chatty replies. - If he calls me to make plans to go out, I am keen, but I don't call first. - I never mention our relationship (or lack of it). - I always make sure I say that I've been out with other friends. - If a guy hit on me, I tell him (as a friend, of course ). OK, things I'm doing wrong. - "If I always pay him attention, he will know I adore him". I realise this is wrong. - I see other friends but I often try to make sure he comes along. Often he doesn't. I think I should stop inviting him unless he happens to call. - When we're out in a group, I constantly make a beeline for him. Maybe I should concentrate more on talking to other people. - I am always ready to drop everything to see him. My BIG problem is I always want to be around him. He used to persue me but he doesn't do it any more, probably because he doesn't need to. I think I will try to pretend he's not there and see if he starts persuing me again. Have you got any ideas as to how I can "forget" he's around? One very big point you make that I hadn't considered: "The bed is for boyfriends that love and respect you, not for guys that want to have some affection while they pine for their exes, right?" Very succinctly put... thank you!

Thanks for the responses! I really appreciate that neither of you said "tell him to f- off!" because I really don't think it's the right thing to do. He and his ex split about a year ago. The split was messy and he clung on for a long time. They split because he'd split with a girlfriend of 10 years and wasn't sure he wanted someone else so soon, because he wanted to date around (he'd never done it). His 'new' ex got tired of being messed around. Yes, history is partially repeating itself, except that now he would have a girlfriend, but only the ex. (He still wants to date around etc). We don't have sexual contact - we sleep together and hug. But I know what you mean... he does have me where he wants me now, I'm becoming aware of that. I just really like falling asleep with him so I always allow it to happen. I noticed lately I am starting to try make sure it happens, in fact. So yes, I need to stop being so eager/available. I have resisted the urge to initiate contact today - the first day we haven't had contact in many weeks. I would like to retreat - I know this works with him. I was holding hands with another guy last month and that was the catalyst for us sleeping together the first time. And of course, he only realised he wanted his ex so much when she dumped him. I find it hard to stay away from him because I like him so much. I'm sensitive too, so whenever I try to 'ignore' him, I get scared he might 'forget' me and I give in! Especially when I see him being chatty with other girls. Any tips? I'm thinking I should start by going back to the way things used to be. I.e. I only email/text if he does it first. I think if we go out together I need to try flit around and be less attentive. And although I am not going to kick him out of my bed, I won't try make sure that he ends up in it every weekend... I'll be a bit more chilled about it. Thank you again for your posts... I would love to hear any more advice anyone has! PS. I don't have the book you mentioned Jenn, but I have heard of it. Are any of the 'rules' online anywhere?

[Just edited this to make it shorter!] Four months after I split with my ex, after flirting a few times, myself and D (who I had known casually for 4 years) ended up kissing. He told me he liked me a lot but couldn't be my boyfriend. We continued to flirt all the time. We went on holiday as part of a group and ended up separate from the others constantly. We didn't have any sexual contact though. The night we came back, we did have sexual contact and he stopped it. A couple of weeks later we slept together on and off for about a week and he stopped it again. He said he thought a relationship was developing. We are stalled at 'best friends' because he's obsessed with his ex girlfriend. She's not interested in him but they still have a lot of contact. He has told me he likes me a lot, and he is "enamoured" by things I do. There is no mystery. We are in contact most days and share a bed most weekends. When he loses his inhibitions, he is touchy and affectionate, but we never kiss. There is CONSTANT eye contact and flirting though. I know it seems he is messing me around. I tolerate it because I feel like I'm on the verge of something amazing with him. I can feel it. I really have tried to 'forget' him, but I can't. Not making contact with him today has been absolutely agonising. I can't change his feelings for his ex, but I don't know how to move on from the situation, or move the situation on. If he seems obviously and openly interested, is it right for me to 'hang in there' for a while? The attraction is obvious to our friends and we don't really hide the fact we share a bed etc. They think it's inevitable that we're going to get together. Can anyone offer any ideas please? I am going crazy.

You don't say why you are dying to meet this other girl you've been talking to on the internet... I think your girlfriend has legitimate reasons to be worried, given her past history, but perhaps there's some detail about this other girl that you missed out of your original post?