"Taking a Break" Vs "Breaking Up" Update

[caveat]

Aylin,

 

Thank you for your insight...its welcome and appreciated. Yes, I know that she wants/needs to find herself and I in no way fault her for that. In fact, it only makes me love and admire her more. When I met her I immediately recognized her strength and knew that that strength would translate into a need for independence at some point. I also knew that her life situation over the first couple of years was such that that strength was no match for some of the realities that life was about to serve up to her. So I took a chance and stepped into her life to help and in the process fell in love with her despite my every effort not to (after 2 years of telling her that she was too young and that it would never work I finally gave in...that was almost 4 years ago).

 

No worries about taking the comment re. my ego as a negative. You are 100% right...in addition to my heart getting trounced, my ego did take a pretty good beating too. And I won't lie, I have a big but delicate ego! Has it healed? Not totally, but its close, thanks to NC. I wouldn't have been able to have this sort of clarity if I was playing emotional ping-pong with her right now. And would I readily take her back once my ego IS 100% healed? Not necessarily. Why? Because her and my future is not dependent on my intact ego...not in the slightest. Its dependent on her as an independent individual and me as an independent individual arriving at a time and place where we want to be together for the journey forward. She knows this too.

 

You said that I should ask my ex if she truly loves me and is not confusing being taken care of with love. I agree, though I know that it is the former. I may sound over confident, but she and I were both very cognizant of the fact that she needed to take care of herself as much as possible, both financially and emotionally, in order for the relationship to work long term. As difficult as it may be, completely letting her go and letting her do her own thing is the ultimate test of whether there is a future for her and I.

 

Now for the hard part and here is where I would value your and any of the other ladies feedback: how do you balance moving on and letting go with remaining present (albeit distant) in her life without slipping in to the 'only as a friend' category?

[RayKay]

Now for the hard part and here is where I would value your and any of the other ladies feedback: how do you balance moving on and letting go with remaining present (albeit distant) in her life without slipping in to the 'only as a friend' category?

 

This is a category I am scared of slipping into too...though I am female...so if I reply to yours, you have to reply to mine too!

 

Honestly, for me, I think you as a guy avoid slipping into the friends only category by still being the fascinating, interesting guy that would make ANY girl fall for you, not just her Don't become "just friends" by swapping dating stories and so on, if she brings them up, just brush them off as if they don't bother you, but that you would rather not talk about them. Sure she might get sort of offended that you don't want to talk about it, but then she might also be more interested what YOU are up to, and thereforeeee find you more mysterious. Through your actions, show you care still.

 

The fact is you already have a lot going for you, and if the relationship was good, honestly you are still the unit of measurement so to speak. It would take a lot for her to overcome your history together and you, for someone else - as attractive as they may be. Speaking from experience, if you have a DEEP love bond - spiritual, emotional, physical and mental connections, even if you say it is "just friends", it really is not and never truly will be.

 

So..for me, my ex and I are now "friends" as he is taking time to be single for the next year at least. He has never been single and feels he needs to do this as though he loves me, he is not at the point he can commit, and felt by staying with me, he never really would be and it would get worse for him. He is not looking for anyone else or "better and really hopes this will get him to the point where he is ready for a serious relationship, and does still hope/is open to it being me -I just wish it was now! But if not, I do want it to be then! When we are together we have a fantastic time, lots of fun, the attraction is still there, the chemistry high - we do have a blast. I too do not want to fall into just friends, which is a risk since it WILL be year "apart" - he is darn stubborn. Beec has given me some good advice, but I am interested in hearing other guys perspectives! How do I keep the fires burning, without pressuring him into anything he is not ready for? How do I increase my chances of him being with me again, without falling into just friends, or doormat (from a guy's perspective)? How do I make him tap into those feelings for me I know that are there, so they overshadow his quarter-life crisis? And that he does truly know I AM the one (he wants me to be, he just is not sure yet!).

 

Merci beaucoup!

[caveat]

Raykay,

 

Thanks a lot for your reply...lots of food for thought. I need to do some heavy thinking before I consider deviating from the pure NC path, but one way or another, definitive closure and/or clarity is going to be a necessity at some point.

 

I still have some work to do on myself before I'm ready to speak to her again, but I am getting close and in the meanwhile I'll continue to stay active and busy. I've gone out on a couple of dates but just didn't have my heart in it, but the exercise and hobbies continue to do wonders. Try this on for keeping oneself busy:

-this past Friday/Saturday--climb to summit of Mt. Shasta (14K feet) with ice axe/crampons, and then skiid down

-Sunday: Kite surf

-Monday: Heavy lift session/5 Mi. Run

-Tuesday: First indoor laccrosse game of the season (I used to play Div. I back in college, played club ball up until about 5 yrs. ago, am a bit rusty, but still got a few moves...)

-Wednesday: Lift/Bike, Date (blah--nice gal, but no chemistry)

-Thursday: Dinner and drinks downtown

-Friday: ?

-Saturday: 8 Hour adventure race/triathlon (kayak, mtn. bike, trail run)

-Sunday: Depart to Tokyo, Japan for week long biz trip, 3 day layover on the way back in Hawaii.... ...cold beers, long runs, and epic kitesurfing.

 

Oh yeah, and some work in between! I'd say I'm keeping busy...

 

Okay, enough about me. Quid pro quo, here is my 2 cents:

First, I think Beec has got you on the right track, and I saw another thread where he also recommended that you not fall into a pattern of always being available. I think that is crucial; I think you also need to be a bit of a mystery and give clear evidence of your ability and desire to be your own independent person as well. Right now you share in a lot of activities that you both had interests in prior to his decision to create some space in the relationship. My recommendation is to find another activity that interests you and you think (or perhaps he has mentioned ) that he might enjoy, and take the lead (without mentioning it to him) in making an adventure out of it (try kite surfing -- there are some pretty amazing ladies mastering it these days)...if he is the adventurous type and is attracted to that quality in women I tend to think that he'll find it intriguing and exciting.

 

I have to admit that when I broke things off with my high school sweetheart after a 6 year relationship (we survived a LDR in college, but then me going to law school and her going to med school on opposite sides of the country just made it too hard) I found out that she was blazing new trails and taking on new adventures and challenges (i.e. she was getting on with her life full speed ahead) and it made me really regret that things had not worked out. That independence and strength really was a turn on and made me think that, hey, even after 6 years I didn't fully realize the depth of this person.

 

In short, I think you surprise him with pursuing something on your own that is of your own initiative, but is something that he could join YOU in exploring. Just be sure its something that YOU really want to do for yourself, and are not simply going through the motions as a way of luring him in--he'll see through that.

 

Be your own woman, don't let him think that you are waiting for him even if you are, go out and seize the world in a way that shows him that while you would love to have him by your side while you are doing it, you are going to do it with or without him.

[Tinkerbell]

This is quite the interesting thread...

Now although some of you make good points (such as OceanEyes) I disagree with the majority of you who think that those who initiate a break should be beaten round the head. Quite frankly, the majority of you are the people who have been put on the break and it seems as though you don't quite understand why this is.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I understand completely that in some cases a break is just used as an "easy" way to let someone down as the person is too frightened to break it off completely, yet it often leads to that when there are no feelings for the other present. But in some cases a break can be good...For example, if two people care about each other very much but things are beginning to turn sour in the relationship, why shouldn't they take a break? During that time, if their feelings are true, they'll come to realise just how much they love and need that other person and will work harder in the future to stabilize their relationship in order not to almost lose it again.

 

If one person in the relationship isn't very happy and feels they need some time apart to get their priorities straight, a break can also be good. Sure, it'll cause much pain to the one who was happy, but if the unhappy partner pretends that everything is fine and dandy the other one will eventually find out, and personally, I'd rather be told the brutal truth rather than be lied to.

 

It's rather sad that there are people out there who are too "chicken" to break it off completely with a person and prefer to keep them hanging instead. I can only imagine how much pain this must cause...

But I'm also sure that there are those out there who would only initiate time apart if they did feel there was hope for the future, me being one of them.

 

I'm very sorry that so many of you have had to endure these "hell breaks," your partners were quite the spineless jellyfish for keeping you from the truth.

[Aylin]

how do you balance moving on and letting go with remaining present (albeit distant) in her life without slipping in to the 'only as a friend' category?

 

I just saw Sex in the City the other night, and in it Charlotte tries to date again even though she's still very much in love with Harry. All her friends are very supportive of her moving on. As modern and progressive as l am, I don't think it's a good idea to date if you're still in love with your ex, and I certainly don't equate dating with moving on. Often times it's more like a flotation device. It's not fair all around, and more feelings and complications, hence, more to process and deconstruct which leads to more justification, self or not.

 

Do you suppose this would be a stage where we ought not try to define anything - no labelling nor justification. It's not going to be an act of friendship, or an act of love (what kind of love so on and so forth), or an act of anything with a spelled out rational, but simply out of sincerity, and deep down in your heart it's just the right thing to do. I hope you understand my point as I'm only as articulate as I possibly can be at the moment.

[caveat]

Aylin,

 

Believe it or not I think I know what you meant when you said

It's not going to be an act of friendship, or an act of love (what kind of love so on and so forth), or an act of anything with a spelled out rational, but simply out of sincerity, and deep down in your heart it's just the right thing to do.

.

 

I feel as though I am coming to a point where my heart is telling me that establishing some sort of contact is "just the right thing to do", not as an act of love or friendship. Very strange, but I think you have put your finger on what I'm feeling. I need to think about this in greater depth though and I know I'm not ready to speak to her yet. Its hard to believe how much introspection and examination I've done in the last 4 months and even harder to believe how in just 4 months I've managed to regain much of the strength and confidence that dwindled in the past couple of years.

 

Throughout this board you see people giving advice about restoring yourself back to the form that you were in when your ex first met you. 6 years ago I walked into the firm where I met her full of confidence and energy, ready to conquer the world. The pace of the last few years and trying to carry too many responsibilities sapped a lot of that strength energy and confidence...which I should not have allowed to happen. Well, guess what? Work still remains to be done, but I'm baaaacckkkk.....

 

The funny thing is that I wasn't pushing to get back to that place; I was pushing only to get myself kickstarted and things just kind of fell into place by themself. Very strange how that happens, but its great to feel like I am now carrying the fight rather than on the defensive. Its been too long since I've felt that way.

[caveat]

Here is a follow up question that I would be interested in hearing some opinions on: how do you retract an ultimatum without sending the wrong message, i.e. pushing/chasing?

 

If you have followed my posts you'll know that when she hit me with the "I need to be independent" line and made it clear that she wanted to be free to do whatever she wants I made it clear that she shouldn't try to contact me until/unless she wanted me as the only man in her life and it was for the right reason.

 

The ultimatum served its purpose in that it has given me 4 months of no contact to work on myself and get myself leveled out, as well as time to reflect on the relationship, what was wrong with it and whether I truly thought that a future could exist between the 2 of us. More time is still needed on my part, and frankly I think she will need much more time and I do not intend to try to 'negotiate' her out of establishing her independence. Quite the opposite...she needs to cycle through whatever she is going through and has to make her own decisions on where she wants her independence to take her.

 

The quandry is now whether the ultimatum has created an impasse which will bar either she or I from reaching out to one another. She has to be thinking that if she contacts me its admitting that the break is over and she wants me back....I'm thinking that the bar has to be lowered in such a way that allows her to circle back around without having to 'publicly' admit that she wants to give it another chance. She may not want to rekindle what we had, nor may I. And transitioning into just friends is not realistic at this stage...maybe years down the road if it comes to that. So what would the purpose of lowering the bar be? Allowing one another to keep the other's life enough in sight to see the changes that are occurring. Right now it feels like we are in a stand off to see who gives first and I think it may be hurting rather than helping the chances for a reconciliation.

 

Any insight would be appreciated....

 

Caveat

[quintana]

Caveat - let me first commend you for embarking on what seems to be a very healthy journey, and for starting quite an interesting thread. I certainly can empathize with you.

 

You worry that your ultimatum has created a stand off and now no one is willing to give. I find myself in a somewhat similar situation, however my ex-GF is now seeing OM, which ultimately led to my cutting off all contact after several months with mutual (?) hope of reconciliation.

I would like her to be in my life again, but I am not ready to see her right now as I'm not where I want to be quite yet.

 

I think you're dilemma is a tough one.

 

How do you retract an ultimatum, you ask. Well, usually you don't, I suppose, or it would not be an ultimatum.

 

I'm not fond of ultimatums myself, but obviously in our somewhat similar situations it has been necessary to set a rule of NC. Out of respect for them, and in order to cope with the loss ourselves.

 

Setting an ultimatum is initiating a power-struggle. Having raised the bar that high you've probably gained some needed self-respect in at tough situation, but you've also risked painting her in a corner.

As she is trying to gain some independence it doesn't follow clearly that she should "bow" to your demands - in that case wouldn't she be compromising the very independence she is trying so hard to obtain?

 

It seems you've been the solid rock of support and comfort in your relationship. You were the strong one. To me that suggests that you should lower the bar at some point. I don't see how it would make for a truly equal relationship in the future if she is supposed to meet your high standards of contact.

On the other hand, since she's the one that left, most people will tell you that she is the one that should initiate contact.

I'm not really helping here, I know but I would suggest that you're feelings are these:

 

1) You want to be happy

 

2) You want her to be happy

 

3) You want to be happy with her

 

If you're really close in reaching the first objective (which frankly is the only one that matters) or you're already there, then, yes, I think you could retract the ultimatum by sending her a brief note, a little "how are you? I'm doing great, and would feel even greater knowing you are as well.." or something to that effect. It's really all it takes to retract the ultimatum and prevent the situation of the potential stand off.

 

But only then.

 

Honestly, it doesn't seem to me that you are there yet. Your healing process has been tremendous and tremendously inspiring, but I do think you need to let the bruised heart and battered ego heal some more.

 

Probably not much help I realise, but you're not alone in being alone, and I'm confident you're on your way to excactly where you wanna be.

 

- Quintana

[mazurka]

6 year age gap

she establishing a career me entrenched in one.

her asking for a break

 

I cannot believe the similarities to my situation and your insights and the realisations you have come to.

 

Uncannily it has been like reading my own situation.

 

I am on nearly 3 months of no contact with only a few business emails between the two of us

 

Caveat feel free to ask anything as becuase our situations sound so the same I would value a bit more pointed insight from you

 

M

[caveat]

Quintana,

 

I'm not really helping here, I know

...quite the contrary. I took a great deal away from your comments, which I thought were very objective and balanced.

 

I think your view on leveling the ultimatum, the power struggle it creates, and how it contradicts the very thing that she feels so compelled to obtain (her independence) is dead on. Moreover, as the weeks and months have passed its become more and more clear that any future for the two of us REQUIRES her to stand on her own 2 feet without having to feel that she can simply anchor herself to me for strength and security. That time has passed and you are correct in saying that for there to be a truly equal relationship going forward the bar must be lowered.

 

Frankly, the past couple of years have been draining on me not only because of my workload, helping my family through a rough stretch and working on the long distance relationship, but also because I was vigilantly watching over her and stepping in whenever adversity arose. She's pretty damn tough, but for the past few years the chips have really been stacked against her and I wanted only to give her the fighting chance to get to where she wants to be in life and to add my weight in helping push back those obstacles that she would not have been able to deal with herself (her family is in no position to help her...and frankly would not know how even if they had the financial wherewithal). By in large, she has been able to take care of everything herself and both she and I agreed that it would not be healthy for her, myself or us if she leaned on me too much, but subconsciously I think we always knew that I was there as a safety net. And as we all know, one can't truly be independent knowing that a safety net will always be there to catch you when you fall.

 

Honestly, it doesn't seem to me that you are there yet.

. No, I am not there yet. I'm getting closer, but I still have some work to do before I can honestly say that I could talk to her without feeling as though my emotions were getting in the way. Day by day, I'm reclaiming ground that I should never have lost and I have to admit that I'm excited about what the future has in store, with or without her.

 

Thanks again for your insight. The fact that they were not biased towards either myself or her was very helpful.

 

On that note, time to get packed for Japan and Hawaii. The time away will be great and will give me some much needed down time to rest up (I tore a hamstring Tues. night (doh!) and am out of commission for a couple of weeks).

 

Have a great weekend everyone.

 

Caveat

[caveat]

Mazurka,

 

Not a fun place to be is it? I'm with you brother, just hang tough and keep throwing punches. You may have lost one round but there are plenty more to go...you may reach a point where you give up on this relationship, but don't do it without a fight. How you fight is the crux of the issue and can only be determined by you and her. Not that helpful I know, but matters of the heart are never cut and dry. Translation: give it time, digest what has happened, keep moving forward...day by day realizations will unfold which will startle you.

 

The best piece of advice I can give you is to reclaim yourself. Make those changes in your life that are needed to regain your balance, individuality and strength. The week after the bomb was dropped I remember looking at myself in the mirror and thinking to myself, "how have you allowed yourself to become this miserable"? The break up was only partially responsible for my condition...I was working too much, taking on too much responsibility personally and professionally (I hate letting people down), not pursuing enough of the things in life I love to do, taking things entirely too seriously and worrying too much. The following week I walked into my boss' office and told him that it was time for me to start working realistic hours and having a realistic workload otherwise we would need to talk about transitioning my duties. He was very supportive...he's seen what I've done in the past 4 years and often times has said that I do the work of 4 people. Frankly, they would be pretty hosed if I left and they and I know it. I've made the committment to assess my situation at the end of the year (after I pick up a pretty healthy sized bonus) and if need be, move on to pursue a new job or venture that better suits me and my needs.

 

I walked out of the conversation realizing that I had just taken control of my professional career, something I have not done since I graduated from law school 7 years ago. I can't tell you how liberating it felt and feels.

 

I look back at the day I stepped foot in the firm where I first met her and can recall where I was at on that day. She was the secretary working at the front desk on the day I came to in to interview and was the first person I saw. She used to always recount her first impression, saying that when she saw me her heart skipped a beat, mouth went dry and couldn't talk. I was 26 at the time and was firing on all pistons. Confident, strong, very outgoing and active, ready to conquer the world. 6 years of going 1000 MPH with almost no breaks and stepping into every fight that was thrown in my path had taken its toll. I was tired...one can only fight so many fights before they need a break. Me being the stubborn, "I can take it" type, I rarely took a break.

 

This train wreck has been the wake up call that I needed and has given me an opportunity to reassess where I place my priorities and how I balance them. And it has given me the opportunity to realize that I am only human and I have my limits. Most importantly it has given me the opportunity to realize that life is too short to squander those things that are truly a blessing and that a healthy dose of play, selfishness and irresponsibility are a REQUISITE to a balanced life, not an indulgence that should be sacrificed.

 

Sorry to babble, I'm feeling a bit philosophical this morning.

 

Stay strong, my man. From strength grows opportunity.

 

Caveat

[mazurka]

My word this is uncanny,

 

Too much responsibility makes one miserableand resentful. I think after a seven year period like that, when you do take a step back you realise that your are no longer the person you used to be. The self confidence is gone, the spontinaeity and that lust for life. Emotional exhaustion set in and all the things that make you an attractive person have been sapped from your persona.

 

I am kind of at the stage now where I am trying to remember what I like and what I want out of life and to tell you the truth I cannot remember. I am sad and hurting but embracing this time as a time of self actualisation and once I am through it I will know who I am and what I want and be in a much better position to objectively evaluate if there is a possibility of reconciliation.

 

To tell you the truth, if my wife said tomorrow she wants to come back to me although my heart would scream yes my brain would say no, as I have not finished exploring what I consider to be an opportunity for self-actualisation and without reaching a point where I am happy with myself again.

 

I think if you are like me, as with everything else in life, you give 100% to your relationships and I think, long term it might be a case of not looking after the most important thing in the relationship, which is you, which would lead to its demise in its present form.

 

When I can get out of bed in the morning and say , I am happy, I am looking forward to life and I no longer need this person to ensure my happiness then I will know I am healed and ready to look again at having this person back in my life.

 

For now, lots of travel, lots of reading, a few trivial relationships to gain some perspective, and lots of blissful selfishness.

 

I WILL become a better person from all this because at this point that would be a victory to me.

 

Back in the real world though... it still hurts and trying to think objectively with a shattered ego is indeed a challenge.

 

Thanks for the wise words,

 

M

[justjames]

Caveat, RayKay, & others,

 

 

Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I too may possibly join this situation. It goes as follows:

 

I'm 21, she's 20. Yes, we are a bit young, lol. We are both undergraduates, shes at a school in London, me in Atlanta. This past year I decided to study abroad at her school, with the intention of possibly 'mixing it up' with different people, but obviously not anything way serious. I met her in a mutual club we both belonged to...and after a month of friendship, we found ourselves together. Only to be pulled apart for the month of December during winter break. This was hard for both of us, and we endured it. When I returned to the UK, we were so excited. We kept dating, getting extremely close, and sharing almost all our activities together. We were each other's best friend (dont know if this is good or bad).

 

We both knew the time when I would return to the US was coming, and we were afraid. To which both our parents asked us to evaluate the relationship and leave open the possiblity of visting each other during this year (I will be back in the UK after this year to study a one yr Masters). My girlfriend and I thus decided to visit each other four times this year. She comes over to the US --Sept, and December, when she'll actually spend all of that month with me and my family, who are anxious to meet her. Then I would visit her twice, say March, and June, before my return in Sept. 2005. We pooled our money together after setting a common amount to save, we talked to others who survived sucessful LDRs, we tried to stay positive. Be open to talking, watch for emotional infidelity, but do form bonds with others, etc.

 

Well, I left on June 19th. It was hard. Its been a month. She's been crying, cant sleep, she is depressed. What makes it worse is she's interning as an investment banker so she has little free time, and she lives own her own in a student hall in London (big city life=lonely, sometimes). I try all the stops: i send he text messages while she's at work with songs i think she likes. I send love emails. I have a monthly journal that I send her with photos of what Ive been doing. We both have web cameras, do IMs and chat, and I call her twice a week! I'm investing all my time to keep this up with her, because I love her. I know these things are hard, but I want to be with her, possibly for the long term.

We both actaully planned a possible future together, because her line of work offers possible transfers to different countries, or I could possibly study there further until I reach my desired degree.

 

She...hasnt been as responsive, in those ways. She says she has no time, which I understand. She also has a whole lot of frustration because she's alone, and she got her grades this year (not too good), which devastated her, because she's always done well, and doesnt wnat to disappoint her parents. Throughout all of this I have made concessions to hear her, console her, etc. She has done the same for me.

 

And I want to make absolutely clear that while we were together, she was the most caring, selfless, empathic person I've ever met. I really feel like she has enhanced my life. [as a side note, And if she goes, then my issue is trying to separate what parts of me that developed while with her are what I want. The frustrating thing is I like how I am with her. I've improved as a person...awkwards situation!]

 

So anyway, this past week has been particularly hard for both of us, and so two days ago I asked her to revevaluate the relationship, and I did also. At the end, I realized it was hard emotionally to not have someone present to input my emotions towards, but I do love her dearly and am willing to stick this out for a chance of happiness at the end. SHE, on the other hand, told me she wants a break. She needs to clear her head, and she isnt sure if she loves me. That came as a shock, because she said it so much and expressed it. I guess you can never really know until a time like this, but... I was just curious as to if she had thought this through with everything else in her life, which may be a cause for this, i dunno.

 

So, I'm here, like, "after ONE month' she wants freedom, not as much constraint, and time to see other people? I don't know how much she's thought of this. I understand that this may be healthy, but, I'm trying to not get burned, and Ive read so many stories of you guys...I dont want a break..., but my dilemma is: I DONT WANT TO GIVE THIS UP, WHICH IS WHAT PROMPTS ME TO CONSIDER THIS BREAK, BUT IF OUR LOVE IS MEANT TO BE, THEN WE WILL SURVIVE, BUT!, AT THE SAME TIME I MAY GET BURNED EVEN WORSE BY THIS IF SHE FINDS SOMEONE ELSE, OR DECIDES SHE DOESNT WANT TO BE WITH ME, AND IF ITS NOT MEANT TO BE THEN IT MAY BE WORSE THAN IF I JUST END IT NOW.

 

Help me! please. And Now she emails me the day after saying 'erm, about last night...I cant stop thinking about you' I dont know if SHE knows what she wants herself.

[mazurka]

JJ I can hear you are pretty cut up about all this.

 

I am going to give advice which I would appreciate if other older members of this forum can say I am talking rubbish or not or merely just give there opinions.

 

Your 20's are a time of change and growth, you will see on this forum a huge amount of relationships which break up when girls hit there mid 20's as they change, there men change and then suddenly they have 5 or 6 years of heavy relationship to get over which is not fun (Have a read in this forum)

 

I think , my friend this is time to think with your head and not your heart. Although true love is hard to find and as strong as your feeling are now, they will pass. You are at the beginning of a time in your life where emotional involvement can be a huge liability.

 

Commercial success is far easiert to attain when you are single. Same goes for her. An internship in an investment bank in the City is tough and she will probably want to make a good go of it. Career opportunities come but once or twice and need to be embraced to achieve full self actualisation and having emotional ties means you are not always making decisions to that interest.

 

Also, remember that woman are are alot more in tune with there meotions than men and don't turn into idiots when there emotions are running at full throttle like us men folk

 

She also need to live life as hard as it is for you to accept. But remember one thing if it is true love and you are meant to be together you will be but the time just doesnt seem right now.

 

Practically if you guys meet up again in 4/5 years time and you have been through different relationships you will have a much more mature emotional base to build on and the chances of long term success will be much higher as you will both knwo more about what you want out of life.

 

If not it wasnt meant to be and there is nothing you can do to change it. It sounds like what she is doing is in both your interests. Be a man and be a challenge, do some NC and heal yourself and concentrate on your career.

 

I know its difficult to do now but you have to be strong and look after yourself.

[justjames]

This is a point that she brought up, and that is affecting planning for the future, I agree. That may be a conflict...career development may have to take priority, as well as emotional development, before we embark on a relationship this serious. But, how do you know when enough is enough?

 

I most certainly agree that both of us are young, and perhaps unsure of what we may feel like in a few years. It is just hard--you make this type of connection, then have to break it because of work related issues.

 

So cut the cord, no visits? Hmm...

 

I will have to think about this...she will most certainly benefit from her experience this summer without suffering from missing me, as well as her last year of school next year. And I have to do well on the lsat, and graduate.

 

....

[Jaimie]

Hi all...

 

My Girlfriend and I have been together for 4 and a half years. We've lived together for four of those years. We're officially on a break at the moment and I am absolutely devastated. My GF is Italian and she's on her usual summer break to Italy. We live together in London. She's 24 and I'm 26.

 

She instigated the break. The last year has been majorly stressful. Her final year of university, lots of health problems for her, deaths in her family. It's been bad. On top of that our sex life has suffered because of the above and also because she had an illness which prevented us from having sex.

 

When I met her she was a virgin. She'd had relationships before but nothing sexual. She was also very inexperienced and naive about life. She's an only child and her parents did everything for her so she was very dependant on others. Well...we met and within 4 months she had moved from Italy to be with me.

 

4 years later she has completely transformed. I have taught her so much. She is now strong, confident, self sufficient and completely able to deal with everything. I've been encouraging of everything I could. Supporting her in everything she did. I've been giving and giving and giving for 4 years and haven't expected much in return. Just being with her has been enough for me.

 

I'm not a jealous person and never have been. I've never pressured her over anything and have always given her time and space. However, this summer jealousy took hold of me for some reason. I know this is wrong but I suspected something for some reason. I just felt it. I checked her emails and noticed she had sent an email to some guy. It was nothing major but she was being really familiar and friendly towards some guy she had only known for a week - a guy she was working with in Italy.

 

I confronted her about it and she denied anything. I'm unfotunately very perceptive about these things and knew something wasn't right. So I pressed and finally she admitted she'd been flirting with him and liked him. Then amidst all this she told me she needed to take a break over the summer.

 

Of course, I was stunned and upset. She said that she "needed to clear her head of all the problems we'd been having" Her attitude is that if she's capable of liking another guy then maybe that means she doesn't love me as much as she thinks.

 

Anyway - I was in despair and absolutely devasated. I am a strong person but this floored me. For three days I felt the worst I've ever felt. During that period she was cold, callous and insensitive. She didn't give a damn. I couldn't believe the change. For a week after that we hardly contacted each other. I sent her a couple of emails. Every now and then she'd mak my phone ring.

 

Now - today she called me. She's been dating a guy. She's kissed the guy and gone a little further (not heavy petting but touching etc) The guy in question was working with her and has now left and gone back to his own country. She says that her feelings have changed towards me die to the last year. She says that she feels like dating other guys. She says that this guy who just left wants to come back and visit her and if he does she will date him again - she also says it's just attraction and she has no feelings for him.

 

She said that when she returns to London in September we'll try again and see if she can recapture the feelings she had for me before. If not then we'll break up.

 

I know - I sound like a mug for putting up with this but I am so in love with her. This is girl who has been madly in love with me for 4 years too. Even up to 2 weeks ago everything was fine and now things have drastically changed. I can't imagine my life without her.

 

However, I don't think I can handle the fact she's already been with another guy and is planning to date other guys over the summer. I said yes to the break but I'm so gutted by what's happened. In my head I know what I must do. I need to end it now and salvage some self respect.

I changed my entire life for this girl and this is how she treats me. I gave her everything and that now appears to count for nothing. I know some of you here understand the anguish I'm going through.

 

On one level I can understand. She's only ever been with me sexually and our sex life has suffered recently. Maybe she needs to have this time to get it out of her system. Maybe her natural curiosity of what other guys can be like has taken over. Again, like Caveat above, I knew this day would come - that's the insane part. I knew it in my heart but just hoped it wouldn't happen.

 

My heart tells me to just give her the space and let her do whatever it is she wants to do in the hope that it will make our relationship stronger. I don't want t make a mistake and end it and miss out on a potential future with her. I just can't deal with the mental torture of picturing her with other guys. It's tearing me apart. If it was just a break then I could deal with it. The fact that she's actually been folling around with another guy is what I can't take.

 

I'm utterly devastated, deflated and in despair.

 

Any opinions would be gratefully received.

[caveat]

Jaimie/JustJames,

 

You hear it time and time again, 'just give it space and time', blah, blah, blah. Well, guess what? Its as simple as that. I'm rapidly approaching the 5 month mark and though my feelings for her are as strong as ever, I don't feel debilitated like I did in the first couple of months. Sure, I still think about her all the time and she visits me in my dreams almost every night, but the tide is definitely turning. I can feel it. Each day the world opens up a little bit more and I begin realizing more and more the opportunities that this situation has laid in front of me. Interestingly enough, I also began to realize that many of those opportunities were available while I was IN the relationship, but I had grown too complacent and comfortable with my lifestyle to take advantage of them. I won't be making that mistake again.

 

Don't waste a minute wallowing in self-pity. Get out there and get your strength back...and have a blast doing it! Sure, we miss having that special someone in our lives, but single life certainly has its benefits. Regardless of what the future may hold in terms of relationships, I will never forget these past 5 months, not only because of the heartache, but also because of the exhilrating ride that its been. And believe me, accomplishment breeds confidence and confidence is the best healing elixir of them all.

 

What has space and time done for me? Its allowed me to dive back into being myself, and those qualities that resulted in her unrelenting pursuit of me which have been weighed down by responsibility in the last couple of years have come screaming back. Because I'm trying to resurrect them? No. Because they were always there and restoring balance back to my life just gave them a chance to resurface on their own accord...I just had to let go and not be afraid to put one foot in front of the other.

 

To gain that strength and confidence you need to stand on your own two feet. And to stand on your own two feet you have to let go of her. If you are able to reconcile with her downstream the partnership is that much stronger since a partnership of two independent people is so much stronger than a partnership of two codependant people. And if you aren't able to reconcile, then you keep on striding forward, strong and confident.

 

Easier said than done? Absolutely, but well worth the effort and it beats the hell out of laying down.

 

Caveat

[cheerfoce4655]

same thing

[caveat]

The ex sent an email, wants to get together to 'talk'...not much more to it than that.

 

I'm tempted to reply "about what?", but I think I will agree to meet her. Need to think about this.

[a_little_sparrow]

caveat,

 

I have to tell you first that since I started visiting these boards, your posts have been one of real inspiration. Though the relationship I had with my ex is not nearly as involved and deep as yours, I can relate to the age difference, as well as the desire of the younger ex to experience life, whatever that might mean to her.

 

For your particular situation (ie what her motives could be in contacting you, and asking to meet), it's a tough thing. You mentioned in your question to the expert the worst case scenario and the worst case. And though I sincerely hope for you that the best case is what is motivating her, I can't possibly speculate her motives. Though I think it's a positive sign that according to your ultimatum she was only to contact you if she had decided that you were to be the only man in her life. But that may be the eternal optimist in me talking. And these days I'm finding it very hard to be optimistic concerning relationships.

 

On the worst case scenario, though. If what she wants is closure, I wonder why you would want to avoid this. What has always been so inspiring about your posts is this confident and constant movement away from the relationship, and the building of yourself, your independence. I recognize that officially ending your hopes for some reconciliation would be hard, and perhaps your resistance to having her say something like, "OK it's done." is that you want to end those hopes only on your terms. But I also think that the pain that would come from officially ending any hope would be short term. In the long term, you would in fact know where she stands, and from there you could move even closer to whatever the next stage in your life is going to be.

 

From what you've said the greatest risk is just in seeing her again and having to deal with the emotions that that may bring (ie the attraction, etc.). And ultimately I would say this is the risk that comes with relationships, but considering that either best case or worst case scenario will be beneficial to you in the long term, I say it's a risk worth taking.

 

Best of luck with your decision, and, if you choose to meet with her, the meeting.

[mazurka]

The parrelels continue.

 

I also recently go an email from my other half saying that we should meet for lunch not that we are at the three month mark.

 

I thought about it for a few days or so and replied saying I will contact her in about a month. No reason given but I am sure its self explanatory that I dont want to talk to her yet.

 

I got a reply saying that she just wanted to know my thoughts as things are not getting any simpler.

 

So I am not sure what she is trying to pull but I replied and said I understand how she feels but if things are not getting simpler for her they are getting simpler for me.

 

I dont know why but I got angry and started to feel handled and although it seems like a very childish way of asserting myself its all I could do to say "Do what you must, dont try and manipulate me, just becuase I care about you I will not always do things on your terms"

 

I dont really think I am playing games becuase it is my choice not to see her and I want to start gaining control of the course of events here.

 

I am almost at the stage now as well where my long lost pride is kicking in and I dont know whether I want her back , even if she wanted to come back.

 

Get confusing

[caveat]

Sparrow,

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts....you make some very solid points. One clarification though: the section of my post to Toni regarding best case/worst case scenarios said,

Worst case scenario she is in the same place she was 6 months ago, 2nd worst is closure, i.e. its over and she just wants to be friends (which I will not do) and best case is she expresses an interest in trying to work things out

.

 

In terms of worst case scenario, closure is a distant 2nd to a continuation of the status quo, i.e. her wanting to continue to be free and independent yet wanting to keep me in her life. Why? Because of the exact point you made, short term pain (closure) vs. long term pain (open endedness). Both equate to pain, both are far from the ideal but the former is definitely the more attractive and healthy of the two.

 

As for whether I will meet with her, I have an update on that as well. I was driving home from a ball game last night when my cell phone rang. I answered without looking to see who the caller was. It was her. Hindsight 20/20, I probably should have found a way to get off the phone very quickly, but found myself talking to her for about 20-30 minutes. She asked if I had received her email, I said I had but that the day was very hectic and I had little time to consider it. The conversation was pretty light, mostly her asking how my family, friends, me (if I was still living in the same place, how was work, etc.) were doing and what she's been up to for the past 5 months (and what she's doing now). I was upbeat, confident, made a few jokes that made her laugh, but stayed pretty aloof and guarded. I won't bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that it was a comfortable conversation and I think I did a pretty good job demonstrating that I was getting along fine with my life.

 

Near the end she again asked if we could get together, to which I responded, "I don't know if thats such a good idea, K. What do you want to talk about?". She said she thought it would be a good idea for us to talk, and said it in a way that made it clear that she has an agenda, i.e. that to some extent her confusion has faded. I asked her what she had in mind, she said we could meet for coffee or a drink, bite to eat, etc. and I said that I was open to it, but would have to get back to her as my schedule is pretty slammed and I may be leaving for the weekend. Maybe Thurs. early evening before I meet up with some friends downtown, but I'd have to get back to her. With that I said I had to get going to take care of a few things before I shut it down for the night so we said goodnight to one another.

 

What was the most interesting was how she sounded, how she spoke. She really sounds like she has made some progress in the last 5 months (though she did admit with a laugh that they had been interesting and difficult). There was a confidence (cheerful and friendly, self-secured perhaps) in her voice that was really intriguing.

 

So what do I take away from this conversation? If I were a betting man, I'm guessing that she wants to tell me that has become secure in her new found independence, wants to continue on alone, but still wants to have me in her life somehow (translation: as a friend or as one potential love interest). But, I assume nothing. I will hope for nothing. I will continue focusing on myself and when I meet with her will be myself. I will not put up a facade as a means of trying to lure her back to me. She knows I am one of a kind and that she would be fortunate to find another man who is as strong, confident, loving, balanced and ambitious as me. Forget the Ivy league education, law degree, solid career, my damn good looks ( ), etc. , she and I know that is only a small piece of the equation. She knows that my highest mark is simply being a good man. If all of that is not good enough to draw her back then its best that she keep on moving.

 

I'm not going to agonize over what I should or should not say when we meet, I don't think that would be productive. She has something to say so I'll let her say it. I've been in enough negotiations to know how to remain detached and objective enough to not let emotions dictate my responses before I've had time to really consider them, but this will definitely be a true test of restraint. Don't get me wrong, if there is a spark, it will be fanned, but not blindly or without regard to what is best for ME long term.

 

Stay tuned...

[caveat]

Mazurka,

 

If you aren't ready to talk to her, i.e. you are angry and may allow your emotions to cloud your judgement, then respectfully ask for more time to yourself. What I would not do is package such a request in any way that you may regret downstream. Keep it neutral, brief, emotionless.

 

I can understand why you are angry...its a totally natural reaction. For one reason or another, my anger passed pretty quickly. I don't know exactly why but I think it was because I knew that she was not making her decisions maliciously. Selfishly, yes, but not maliciously. That combined with the fact that I hurt her pretty badly during the initial phase of our relationship which she later forgave 100% just seemed to deflate my anger.

 

I remember the weeks immediately following the bomb being dropped. There were so many emotions swirling around my head that it was liking being in an emotional white-out. I made the conscious effort to try to grab each emotion and harness it as best as possible...I'm still in that process, but solid work has been done and the way has become much more clear. Fear and Anger were 2 of the first emotions I tackled and I've got them pretty well under control. Two of the other biggies, Loss and Hurt, are still out there but I've got a hold of them and its just a matter of time before they too are staked down.

 

This upcoming meeting could tear loose a few of those emotions. I expect it will. But it could also eliminate a few regardless of the outcome. For me, I think its a risk worth taking. For you, I would go with your gut (heart?) and get some more time under your belt and a few more of those emotions harnessed before you have your sit down.

 

Caveat

[ladyc]

Caveat, isn't it time for an update?? What's been happening with you since you were debating whether to see your ex last week? Like many folks on here, I've found your story and your posts quite inspirational. Haven't posted mine yet, and may not need to as I've gotten quite a lot just out of reading the responses to others' situations. Suffice to say I've been very impressed at how you've used your time and energy since the "break" - since my ex told me back in April that he had met someone else and was getting married, I've been in a pit of despair with barely the energy to keep going at work. I've exercised some, which helps me physically and emotionally, but it's been a huge effort and I admire how you were able to throw yourself into that. I'm just now beginning to see the light, and your posts were definitely an inspiration to me. I would be very interested to know how your story is developing (even though our relationship situations are very different - mine is definitely over, no question).

[caveat]

Hi LadyC,

 

Thanks for your support. I'm very sorry to hear that you are going through a difficult time.

 

Yes, it is time for an update and I am almost ready to offer one. For the time being I can give a brief summary of what happened.

 

The ex and I met for about 5 hours last night over drinks and dinner and while a lot of blanks were filled in, the situation is largely unchanged. I'm still trying to process everything that came out of it...in many ways it seems like a dream...very surreal. I think it was the opportunity to say goodbye in person since the split 6 months ago was done over the phone due to long distance.

 

As Toni guessed, she is moving on and letting go though she thinks she may be making the biggest mistake in her life. Her reasons are legitimate and understandable...I bear her no malice. The hardest thing to accept is that the very thing that she feels is driving her decision is the very thing that I thought was the final piece needed for us to make it the distance: her independence. Seeing signs of that independence last night just made her all the more attractive. Life can have a cruel sense of humor sometimes.

 

She is still very confused and wants me to wait but knows that she cannot ask that of me. She needs to stand up on her own two feet and be independent, self-sufficient. She wants to keep a thread alive between us so that there is a chance for us in the future. I told her I don't think I can do that. We discussed so much that we both thought we needed a couple of days to digest everything before deciding how to really part. I know that sounds odd, but both of us are having a very difficult time saying goodbye. The 30 minute hug with her weeping on my shoulder didn't help things.

 

My thinking is pretty garbled at the moment. I need to collect myself before I can give a proper update. All is well though. It hurts and there is a long road ahead of me, but I am not afraid.

 

Caveat