Prostitution as a solution for the overly shy male virgin

[diabolik]

Although he's a friend I wouldn't pay money for a hooker to have sex with him. First of all I'm not rich. Second he might not enjoy it and go through with it. Third it's really up to him. But I'm all for it if he goes and sees a prostitute. Trust me, he's really a social failure.

I meant pool some money together with his other mates, hire a call girl to seduce him at a bar, so that he thinks it's just a woman from the bar, not a pro. But you're right in that it's not your responsibility.

 

I know I'll catch grief for this idea on ENA, but hey, in this particular guy's case, it's a desperate situation. And desperate situations call for desperate measures.

[LightbulbSun]

I don't see how being a 25+ virgin would matter, either (for the record, I'm 26.)

 

Listen, if all a guy wants is sex, he's free to get it however he likes. Including prostitutes and one night stands. It doesn't float my boat, but if he feels differently, more power to him.

 

I just think it would be more valuable to teach someone how to interact with the opposite sex (something, again, I'm learning through therapy as well), so that, if the chance that a girl shows interest in said shy guy, he'll have the social skills to be able to pursue her (or in the case of a confident girl, be pursued at first and show interest back.)

[diabolik]

I just think it would be more valuable to teach someone how to interact with the opposite sex (something, again, I'm learning through therapy as well), so that, if the chance that a girl shows interest in said shy guy, he'll have the social skills to be able to pursue her (or in the case of a confident girl, be pursued at first and show interest back.)

What kind of therapy exactly? Might be useful for my friend, who I think has social anxiety disorder.

[tiredofvampires]

I am going to agree again with silentwisdom. I think the age issue doesn't lend this idea more credence. The older a man is as a virgin, the more I think he needs life coaching, therapy and other types of intervention. Not prostitution.

 

It's true, that a man in my target age bracket (30's-50) being a virgin would really seem like a significant red flag. But then again, it would not come out first thing in our conversations, and by the time it did, if he was exhibiting the other aspects I look for in a potential partner, and I found him attractive in a variety of ways, and I learned what the reason was for this -- if he had overcome his prior obstacles to get to this point of having social skills, a good character, and so forth, I wouldn't care how he got to this point, I'd only be interested in the man he is today. If he had to go though 10 years of therapy and used to stutter and read 28 self-help books and really worked his ass off and what I saw before me was a guy who could communicate, who was sensitive and intelligent and even had some idea of going through hell (god knows I've been through mine, so maybe he'd understand me, too), then it would be an honor to be his first. The older he is of course, the more baggage there might have been, but as long as I know what I'm dealing with, and the why of it, and who he is NOW is partner material, that's really all that ever matters to me.

 

Desperate situations call for desperate measures, yes, so you need to desperately seek professional counseling if you are 30-something and still can't get a date (and are trying).

 

But I have another question, Diabolik, what do you think the matter of telling one's partner that their first time was with a prostitute? Do you think they should reveal that?

[LightbulbSun]

What kind of therapy exactly? Might be useful for my friend, who I think has social anxiety disorder.

 

Cognitive Behavior Therapy. In this type of therapy, you examine the false thought patterns that lead to shyness/social anxiety, and learn to combat them over time.

[diabolik]

But I have another question, Diabolik, what do you think the matter of telling one's partner that their first time was with a prostitute? Do you think they should reveal that?

Women are notorious for lying about the number of sexual partners they've had. So she lies about not having one night stands, and he lies about not having used a prostitute for his first time.

[tiredofvampires]

So your answer is yes, to hiding it/lying about it?

[LightbulbSun]

Women are notorious for lying about the number of sexual partners they've had. So she lies about not having one night stands, and he lies about not having used a prostitute for his first time.

 

Again, not something I'd want to do, but whatever floats a person's boat.

[Organs]

Cognitive Behavior Therapy. In this type of therapy, you examine the false thought patterns that lead to shyness/social anxiety, and learn to combat them over time.

 

I have to confess, when you said CBT, I sort of thought "c ock and ball torture"!

[LightbulbSun]

I have to confess, when you said CBT, I sort of thought "c ock and ball torture"!

 

Ouch!

[Shinobie]

I don't know who in their right mind who would want to use a prostitute to lose their virginity.Even if you only care about sex that is so wrong on so many levels. You don't know where they have been and they might have stds. I don't get how losing it to a prostitute would help someone. You would do it and get it over with than feel like hey I just did it with a prostitute whom of which i had to pay money to do it with. It's like you didn't do it the right way that everybody does it. Some people are just ugly so its like why do I have to pay for it when someone can walk into a bar and immediately attract someone and have a one night stand. Personally though I would rather lose it with someone I care about and who cares about me and its a shame most people don't look at this way.So they go off their basic instinct like an animal and do it. I'd rather die than doing it with a prostitute.

[psychoanalytical]

Oh my goodness - what can I say? It's legal. LOL

[Bartok]

How is a prostitute going to help me:

 

Hold hands?

Cuddle?

Kiss?

Have intimate conversations?

Be a partner and share an emotional connection?

 

All a prostitute can do is take my money and let me have sex with her. Sex isn't all I want. I want a relationship, which includes intimacy and an emotional and spiritual connection along with the sex.

 

Plus, I feel enough already. How am I supposed to feel if I think that the only way I can have sex with an attractive woman is to pay for it? I imagine that will make me feel even worse.

Here here!

 

I've never had a girlfriend and I'm a virgin, and of all the things that come with a relationship, sex scares me the least. Hiring a prostitute would do precisely nothing for me.

[ResonanceTheory]

I didn't see this point discussed at all after Diabolik wrote it, so I'm not sure if everybody just missed it or glossed it over or what--

 

But, as he believes/describes it, one of (or perhaps THE) big contributing factor for his friend's new-found confidence and ability to approach women after visiting a hooker (for his first time) was that women were no longer placed on a pedestal since he'd already seen women at their "lowest".

 

That, to me, is a far more damaging mentality than that of the other "shy virgins" that have commented on this thread. Putting aside my own issues with the use of hookers here, there is a clear divide between the type of men Diabolik envisions being aided by this course of action and those who would see it as just further evidence of their inability to attract a mate.

 

The second type of man, which would include people like SilentWisdom, have not yet had sex-- but as multiple posts on this thread have evidenced, the fact of their virginity (which, apparently, is only a negative attribute if you are a man) would be of very little concern to each woman that posted here. While this type of guy might have social anxiety or a variety of other issues, the fact that they respect and place value in women because of their potential for companionship, friendship, and intimacy already places them lightyears ahead of the type of man that would be aided by Diabolik's suggestion. While they could certainly benefit from counseling or some other sort of therapy to coach them out of their shells, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with their attitudes towards women.

 

The idea that seeing a woman at her "lowest" and putting a price on her sexuality would help one in their interactions with other women is, to me, frightening. It begs the question of just how a man like this values women, and what, exactly, he values them for.

 

So, in other words, the use of a prostitute for one's first time may be helpful to a man who defines a woman by their ability to be used for sexual purposes (or, conversely, a man who defines his manhood by his ability to gain sexual access to a woman), but not to a man who values women for their potential as a long-term partner. Any man who defines a woman by sex has a higher mountain to climb than any "shy virgin (and especially the ones that have posted here).

[diabolik]

I don't see how being a 25+ virgin would matter, either (for the record, I'm 26.)

I think as a guy gets older, it becomes more and more odd, and isolating that he is an involuntary virgin. There is a difference between the typical 40 y/o involuntary virgin, and the typical 22 y/o involuntary virgin. So I wanted to include some age parameter, and the precise age is somewhat arbitrary.

 

In your case, since you don’t fit some of the other parameters, prostitution isn’t a good solution for you, despite your being 26.

 

So your answer is yes, to hiding it/lying about it?

Yes. TOV, consider the case of Lowconfidence’s 41 y/o virgin friend. He is negative on life and “waiting to die”. You’re right that someone like him desperately needs therapy, but if he doesn’t pursue that, and uses a prostitute instead, and that gets him a little bit out of his funk, I’d say the benefits gained outweigh the harm from him lying about it. As I mentioned earlier, number of partners is a subject that women routinely lie about, so if this poor sap lies about his first time, I don’t see that as being so terrible.

 

You don't know where they have been and they might have stds.

That’s true for anyone who isn’t a virgin. Depending on how you define STD, it can be true even for virgins, as it is possible to contract genital HSV-1 from a virgin.

I don't get how losing it to a prostitute would help someone.

This has been addressed earlier.

So they go off their basic instinct like an animal and do it. I'd rather die than doing it with a prostitute.

You’re very young. If you get to be 40 and are still a virgin, you may not feel the same way.

 

Oh my goodness - what can I say? It's legal. LOL

I assume you meant ILLEGAL. Depends on which country you’re in, and even within a country, it depends on jurisdiction (e.g., it’s legal in areas in Nevada, outside of Vegas).

 

And lots of things are illegal – speeding, smoking pot, etc. There are some jurisdictions within some countries where even alcohol is illegal. We could get into a debate on whether it’s worth the burden on society of criminalizing the ‘oldest profession’, but that’s another discussion altogether.

[diabolik]

I didn't see this point discussed at all after Diabolik wrote it, so I'm not sure if everybody just missed it or glossed it over or what--

I, too, was sort of surprised that no one commented on this.

But, as he believes/describes it, one of (or perhaps THE) big contributing factor for his friend's new-found confidence and ability to approach women after visiting a hooker (for his first time) was that women were no longer placed on a pedestal since he'd already seen women at their "lowest".

Right, that’s my guess as to why visiting a prostitute affected his confidence, but I’m not in his head, so I could be wrong. I’ll have to ask him about this specifically.

 

That, to me, is a far more damaging mentality than that of the other "shy virgins" that have commented on this thread. Putting aside my own issues with the use of hookers here, there is a clear divide between the type of men Diabolik envisions being aided by this course of action and those who would see it as just further evidence of their inability to attract a mate.

 

The second type of man, which would include people like SilentWisdom, have not yet had sex-- but as multiple posts on this thread have evidenced, the fact of their virginity (which, apparently, is only a negative attribute if you are a man) would be of very little concern to each woman that posted here. While this type of guy might have social anxiety or a variety of other issues, the fact that they respect and place value in women because of their potential for companionship, friendship, and intimacy already places them lightyears ahead of the type of man that would be aided by Diabolik's suggestion. While they could certainly benefit from counseling or some other sort of therapy to coach them out of their shells, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with their attitudes towards women.

 

The idea that seeing a woman at her "lowest" and putting a price on her sexuality would help one in their interactions with other women is, to me, frightening. It begs the question of just how a man like this values women, and what, exactly, he values them for.

 

So, in other words, the use of a prostitute for one's first time may be helpful to a man who defines a woman by their ability to be used for sexual purposes (or, conversely, a man who defines his manhood by his ability to gain sexual access to a woman), but not to a man who values women for their potential as a long-term partner. Any man who defines a woman by sex has a higher mountain to climb than any "shy virgin (and especially the ones that have posted here).

Interesting points, Res. I would think that my friend still wants companionship and love from a woman, but I suppose he felt like those were not yet within reach, while sex itself was within reach.

 

Given that he's in his late-20s, he went a very long time, including through his sexual prime, without sex. I can hardly begrudge him for giving in to temptation, particularly when he's living in such a highly sexualized society (the U.S.). The reality is that this is not an issue for women, as nearly any woman can have sex, and nearly all do, well before mid or late 20s, and certainly before the sexual prime of their 30s.

 

My friend is actually quite an intelligent guy, and he observes the couples around him, so I’m pretty sure he values women for more than sex. But your post has moved me enough that I will discuss this with him to make sure that this is the case.

 

I think the ‘pedestal’ thing is this: he was so intimidated by women, perhaps b/c he viewed them as goddesses, that he couldn’t speak to them at all. But now, he sees that women are just as human as men, so I think it just makes it easier for him to speak to them.

[TheOther]

Interesting thread with a lot of good, different viewpoints.

 

I can understand a man, getting up there in years, going to a prostitute to finally experience that climax "high" (so to speak) he's read and heard about so much about. It's not something I particularly condone - the health risks would be scary enough, regardless of how often they get tested - but I understand why someone would choose that route.

 

I agree with all those who say that this experience lacks the hand holding, relationship building, emotional connections and initmate conversations a "real" sexual encounter with a special someone would, which would make going to a prostitute a waste of time. Fair enough. However, I think we can agree that a one-night-stand from a bar is essentially the same, but without the money exchange (although sometimes there's alcohol clouding judgements, women getting tricked into bed, emotions getting manipulated, etc., in those "legal" ONS's). In other words, there's little difference between a John and a so-called 'stud' working the bar scene.

 

If someone does decide to choose the prostitution route... try to build up enough funds and travel somewhere where it's legalized and regulated, such as Nevada or Ontario, if you can.

[tiredofvampires]

That was a really great post, RT and I agree all the way.

 

The second type of man, which would include people like SilentWisdom, have not yet had sex-- but as multiple posts on this thread have evidenced, the fact of their virginity (which, apparently, is only a negative attribute if you are a man) would be of very little concern to each woman that posted here. While this type of guy might have social anxiety or a variety of other issues, the fact that they respect and place value in women because of their potential for companionship, friendship, and intimacy already places them lightyears ahead of the type of man that would be aided by Diabolik's suggestion. While they could certainly benefit from counseling or some other sort of therapy to coach them out of their shells, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with their attitudes towards women.

 

This struck me, too, reading through the majority of male comments on this thread. I don't know if it's partly due to the younger demographic that is the majority of eNA membership, but it seems that the vast predominance of males who are still virgins are really still in their 20's, and learning the ropes of social interaction, and dealing with some life conditioning that's made them fear women, intimacy, etc. I believe, from what I've read here, that all these men have basically healthy, respectful and even model attitudes towards women and what they seek in relationships. The men who have posted here are viable partners for a variety of values and attitudes they've expressed, virginity notwithstanding. And so I think it's for them to deal with what has shaped them into becoming fearful, what hinders them socially, and dealing with that both practically and psychologically. It's not at all insurmountable, and I think their prognosis is good. Social anxiety is a TREATABLE DISORDER. I'm impressed with the male sentiments on this thread.

 

The idea that seeing a woman at her "lowest" and putting a price on her sexuality would help one in their interactions with other women is, to me, frightening. It begs the question of just how a man like this values women, and what, exactly, he values them for.

 

So, in other words, the use of a prostitute for one's first time may be helpful to a man who defines a woman by their ability to be used for sexual purposes (or, conversely, a man who defines his manhood by his ability to gain sexual access to a woman), but not to a man who values women for their potential as a long-term partner. Any man who defines a woman by sex has a higher mountain to climb than any "shy virgin (and especially the ones that have posted here).

 

I agree that this is far more troubling -- and I would imagine, does factor into a man's overall disposition, behavior and interaction with women in ways that would naturally repel her. I would actually wonder if such a man is too unbalanced and out of touch to be date-worthy, if he has this sort of mentality. I don't see how being with a prostitute would take them down from "goddess" status and make them more just like another person -- the fact of the matter is that prostitutes and sex workers are far more callous, soulless, toughened, and disconnected interpersonally than average women/people. They have to be. They are in survival mode, not "living" mode. This is not a good representation of an average woman who isn't on a pedestal. If a man wants to see a woman as being just a person, not a goddess, all he has to do is visit a few chatrooms talking about female health problems like period cramps, or maybe even dash into a ladies' room when it's relatively unoccupied and hide out in a stall, and take in the various sensory information. He also needs to maybe get into activities and singles clubs where DATING is not the objective -- hiking is, or writing, or drama, or something else where he can make friends of women and therefore see them "at their worst" on a bad hair day, when they are just cranky and wearing no makeup and being clumsy. A woman "at her worst" shouldn't have to involve subjecting herself to the denigration prostitutes endure, and nor is it a realistic picture of women-at-large. I don't see how the business transaction of a trick would transfer to having a lively conversation on a date that gets a woman more attracted.

[tiredofvampires]

Yes. TOV, consider the case of Lowconfidence’s 41 y/o virgin friend. He is negative on life and “waiting to die”. You’re right that someone like him desperately needs therapy, but if he doesn’t pursue that, and uses a prostitute instead, and that gets him a little bit out of his funk, I’d say the benefits gained outweigh the harm from him lying about it. As I mentioned earlier, number of partners is a subject that women routinely lie about, so if this poor sap lies about his first time, I don’t see that as being so terrible.

 

If a man is so negative about life that he's just "waiting to die" and is a "poor sap", I wouldn't have any interest in dating him at all. So if you are suggesting that he has that experience just to see what it's like, I have no problem with that concept. Just as I would love to get on a motorcycle at 85 and blast along at 90+mph, because I've always had a huge thing for bikes, but never the guts to get on one (as I know the accident rate is very high.) But at age 85? What do I have to lose, right? Might as well "try everything once" at that point. Out of curiosity and a lifelong wish to try this dangerous sport. So if that's what this 41-year-old virgin is seeking, more power to tasting that experience in life. Let's just be clear though that this is not some preparatory exercise for real women, real relationships and real sex. Because the man he's become is pessimistic, depressed, fatalistic, anti-social and probably insufferable to be around (even if he's not a jerk, he's probably just a huge downer.)

 

In which case the issue of lying in his next (real) relationship about how he lost his virginity is probably moot, as we are constructing far-out scenarios (i.e., a 41-year-old "sad sack" losing his virginity, then finding the woman of his dreams, then having to lie about this matter. Bit far-fetched.)

 

As for your endorsing the lying about this, Diabolik -- two major problems with that. I don't see how you reconcile these.

 

1. Way to start a relationship on an honest footing. How is mutual dishonesty a good precedent for a healthy relationship? And if someone else lies, you feel okay lying as well? Two wrongs make a right? If you can't lick 'em, join 'em? There are just so many moral and ethical problems I have with that, none of them leading to the start of an open, trusting relationship. The foundation is weak to start off. This is how the divorce rate is as high as it is. People don't show their real colors until later in the game, and keep themselves guarded, and lie...this is a prescription for the stats.

 

2. Not all women fall into your statistic of women lying about how many partners they've had. So here's the deal, and this is also a point that I feel has been glossed over on this thread: some estimates for HPV prevalence in the "normal" population have been put as high as 80%, it's so epidemic. As we know, condoms are not reliably able to prevent HPV transmission, and this particular infection can't be tested for in men. I think it would be safe to assume that having sex with a prostitute, given all these facts, would be a 100% risk of a man contracting HPV. At least theoretically. So this means that if I meet a man who has been with a prostitute and over the course of our LTR (hopefully culminating in marriage), we will eventually not be using condoms, most likely. And given that this infection is symptom-free in men but a life-and-death matter for women, I will be exposing myself at 100% risk, thanks to his cherry popping episode. He "gets it over with" with a prostitute, and I am at risk for cervical cancer and will never know who gave it to me.

 

Consider this. I am one of those women who doesn't lie (right hand raised, true story). I am one of the honest ones (truth). I am not promiscuous (truth.) You can count the partners I've had, at 41, on a little less than two hands (truth). And I would give a shy 30-something who's had a rough go of meeting women a chance, I'd be patient with him and I'd try to understand what he's gone through, so long as I find him to be resonating with me and healthy-minded NOW. So then we get to the sex, only I don't know he's been with a prostitute. I'm giving myself to him, heart and soul. I feel we are honest and open with one another. I've told him I lost my virginity to some high school crush, and he kind of skirts the issue and says it was some ONS he regretted (or something? what?) I figure, well, that's a bit high-risk, but I'd hope that perhaps the woman wasn't too much of a floosy and that the ODDS were at the most 80%. What I don't know is that my risk is very much higher than that. And then, 10 years from then, I get an abnormal pap. And then surgery and then a hysterectomy because of cancerous tissue. I gave you honesty, patience, understanding, loyalty, sincerity, a woman with values and self-worth...and you gave me dishonesty and cancer.

 

How do you square with that?

[diabolik]

As for your endorsing the lying about this, Diabolik -- two major problems with that. I don't see how you reconcile these.

 

1. Way to start a relationship on an honest footing. How is mutual dishonesty a good precedent for a healthy relationship? And if someone else lies, you feel okay lying as well? Two wrongs make a right? If you can't lick 'em, join 'em? There are just so many moral and ethical problems I have with that, none of them leading to the start of an open, trusting relationship. The foundation is weak to start off. This is how the divorce rate is as high as it is. People don't show their real colors until later in the game, and keep themselves guarded, and lie...this is a prescription for the stats.

This is an argument for never telling a lie in a relationship. When that starts happening, let me know.

2. Not all women fall into your statistic of women lying about how many partners they've had. So here's the deal, and this is also a point that I feel has been glossed over on this thread: some estimates for HPV prevalence in the "normal" population have been put as high as 80%, it's so epidemic. As we know, condoms are not reliably able to prevent HPV transmission, and this particular infection can't be tested for in men. I think it would be safe to assume that having sex with a prostitute, given all these facts, would be a 100% risk of a man contracting HPV. At least theoretically. So this means that if I meet a man who has been with a prostitute and over the course of our LTR (hopefully culminating in marriage), we will eventually not be using condoms, most likely. And given that this infection is symptom-free in men but a life-and-death matter for women, I will be exposing myself at 100% risk, thanks to his cherry popping episode. He "gets it over with" with a prostitute, and I am at risk for cervical cancer and will never know who gave it to me.

Even if the prostitute has HPV, the odds of a guy getting it from her, from one time sex while using a condom, are far less than 100%.

 

I don’t know a whole lot about HPV, but only certain strains cause cervical cancer, and oftentimes, the human body is able to fight off the infection. If that were not the case, given your HPV prevalence statistic, nearly all women would come down with cervical cancer.

Consider this. I am one of those women who doesn't lie (right hand raised, true story). I am one of the honest ones (truth). I am not promiscuous (truth.) You can count the partners I've had, at 41, on a little less than two hands (truth). And I would give a shy 30-something who's had a rough go of meeting women a chance, I'd be patient with him and I'd try to understand what he's gone through, so long as I find him to be resonating with me and healthy-minded NOW. So then we get to the sex, only I don't know he's been with a prostitute. I'm giving myself to him, heart and soul. I feel we are honest and open with one another. I've told him I lost my virginity to some high school crush, and he kind of skirts the issue and says it was some ONS he regretted (or something? what?) I figure, well, that's a bit high-risk, but I'd hope that perhaps the woman wasn't too much of a floosy and that the ODDS were at the most 80%. What I don't know is that my risk is very much higher than that. And then, 10 years from then, I get an abnormal pap. And then surgery and then a hysterectomy because of cancerous tissue. I gave you honesty, patience, understanding, loyalty, sincerity, a woman with values and self-worth...and you gave me dishonesty and cancer.

 

How do you square with that?

You got me there. I wish there was a 'waving white flag' emoticon.

[diabolik]

Yes, part of the motivation for the suggestion is so these guys get to experience something that they might otherwise never experience.

 

But, as I mentioned in the case of my friend, it has made a difference in his willingness to speak to women. He still has a long way to go, but this is tangible progress - so much so that I was shocked. I will raise some of Res' concerns with him the next time I hang out with him, and report back in this thread.

[tiredofvampires]

Even if the prostitute has HPV, the odds of a guy getting it from her, from one time sex while using a condom, are far less than 100%.

 

I don’t know a whole lot about HPV, but only certain strains cause cervical cancer, and oftentimes, the human body is able to fight off the infection. If that were not the case, given your HPV prevalence statistic, nearly all women would come down with cervical cancer.

 

Well, as a woman, I know the fear of the abnormal pap test. And it's the bread and butter of gynecology practice.

 

So it is a HUGE risk factor for women. Even without the highest risk population (prostitutes) in the picture.

 

Wasn't it you who started a thread about oral HSV, advancing the idea that if you'd ever gotten cold sores on your mouth, that you would be morally obligated to tell a partner so that they could make an informed decision about being with you, sexually?

 

How is that different from this? And would you say that if I'd gotten a herpes sore from kissing someone else with it, and hadn't had an outbreak in 10 years, that I should just keep that to myself because lying (omission OR commission) is part of being partnered?

[diabolik]

Well, as a woman, I know the fear of the abnormal pap test. And it's the bread and butter of gynecology practice.

 

So it is a HUGE risk factor for women. Even without the highest risk population (prostitutes) in the picture.

 

Wasn't it you who started a thread about oral HSV, advancing the idea that if you'd ever gotten cold sores on your mouth, that you would be morally obligated to tell a partner so that they could make an informed decision about being with you, sexually?

 

How is that different from this? And would you say that if I'd gotten a herpes sore from kissing someone else with it, and hadn't had an outbreak in 10 years, that I should just keep that to myself because lying (omission OR commission) is part of being partnered?

The fact is that any man who isn't a virgin may be infected with HPV. Unless he gets warts, he will not know. That's what I tell women when we discuss STDs - I tell them that I've tested for everything that can be tested for and HPV is simply an unknown.

 

And I'm sure all the guys on ENA who've had sex with a number of women have had HPV at some point. In fact, the odds I have HPV are probably significantly higher than the odds for a virgin, who then has one time sex with a prostitute while using a condom.

 

If someone knew they had an STD, whether it's herpes or HPV, that's a different story.

[tiredofvampires]

And I'm sure all the guys on ENA who've had sex with a number of women have had HPV at some point. In fact, the odds I have HPV are probably significantly higher than the odds for a virgin, who then has one time sex with a prostitute while using a condom.

 

Perhaps, but the idea is just too scary for me.

 

And I still stand by the lying bit. Very similar to that cold sore issue. And just also...to me that's part of emotional intimacy, to be able to talk about an important life milestone, sexually.

 

But let me try to find a good white flag substitute:

 

 

 

ACH, blast it. Not even close. But that was the best I could do.

[Organs]

For what it's worth, if you find your prostitute through a reputable escort service, chances are she'll be clean or she won't have a job there. Businesses take pride in clean girls, I think.