Prostitution as a solution for the overly shy male virgin

[tiredofvampires]

Uh oh. I feel a biggie coming on. My apologies ahead of time, folks.

 

Buy the gorgeous woman with money or with your looks. Either way, you have "won" her with qualities society as a whole would deem "shallow." If you're so good looking that it takes no effort, he shouldn't enjoy his "victory" either (as you have defined it).

 

I don't disagree with anything you've said here. I wasn't suggesting anyone "buy" anyone with anything that superficial. So then are you saying that when a guy gets to bag someone based on good looks alone, it's so easy that it's really not that spectacular a feather in the cap? That it's really not an achievement worthy of taking much pride in? Do we agree on that, then?

 

I'd also like to join you in putting "victory" in quotes -- as that's more how I meant it. I do not define sexual conquest for it's own sake "victory", whether you are Rudy Valentino or Ron Jeremy or Joe Shmoe, although I have already stated in this thread that I believe getting one's virginity "out of the way" is a hurdle I understand WELL. More on that shortly.

 

Ramm Z, where do I even begin? There are a number of contradictions in what you've said, although I understand your internal logic. But I'd like to start with one thing:

 

So in the end all I ask of the women who think they can speak for us older shy guys is to please never speak on our behalf and say that a guy should be proud of something he never made the choice of keeping or giving in the first place. You have about as much an idea about what it's lime to be an involuntary male virgin as I have an idea about what it's like to be a woman on a bad hair day.

 

All of this in the quote, but especially that which is bolded -- first, I have never said that an older shy guy who is a virgin should be "proud" of it. So that's a distortion you've made that doesn't exist in my posts. Second, I don't claim to speak "on behalf" of older male virgins. Or on "behalf" of males. I don't even claim to speak on behalf of women. I am not representing anyone, nor speaking for you. I am following this discourse and its logic and what has evolved here is Diabolik stating that women do not understand what is involved in male virginity and its stigma, and the curse of its being involuntary. This tributary in discussion has entered upon the "who has it worse" deal, in the dating environment, and what the social pressures women face vs. men face, are. This consequently compelled me to question the veracity of the word "involuntary" -- within the concept of the "involuntary male virgin", since it's being implied that female virginity wouldn't be "involuntary" (Christ, what an ugly LABEL. I hate it, but since it's been hammered into the lexicon here, let's do it up, guys. Let's coin an acronym: IMV. Involuntary Male Virgin.)

 

So Ramm, I am not speaking on behalf of anyone, I am speaking on behalf of logic and reasoning, which has led me to question a few of the assumptions here about what "involuntary" means. That, pertaining to the topic, since if a man believed he had any other options other than a prostitute, and that possibly any of this was voluntary, he'd view his situation differently. With perhaps less desperation, or else action of a different sort.

 

Before I go on, I'd like to interject something here that's just a bit of a tangent. I find these "you'll never understand what we go through as a gender" -- which suggest one sex has it rougher than the other -- discussions verging on infuriating, and increasingly more so as I stick around here. Because one thing I've learned in my life is that whatever the subject, most people feel that their problems are being trivialized and diminished when you say, "My problem is worse than yours." How about this, I am not a man and never will be, so I will never fully grasp the magnitude of what you go through. And conversely, you are not a woman, and will never grasp the magnitude of what I go through. So how 'bout we call it even? And just try to understand and have compassion for, and relate to the other person's problems, rather than trying to trump the other. How about, you have your problems, and we have ours, and they both SUUUUCK, just in different ways.

 

This is just a general enjoinment, but there is a personal side to it as well. You have NO CLUE what I've been through sexuality-wise. I am 41 and as I've said, I can count on less than 2 hands the number of men I've had full-on sex with. That is not "normal." And there are reasons for that, beyond the scope of this thread. I'm certainly not here to stage my own sexual grievances, but one thing I will say is that I, too, have been in a parallel position of "involuntary" celibacy on and off throughout my sexually active adult life, due to some painful problems I have to deal with. And given that, I would need an attentive, sensitive, caring partner just about every time. How many men would go that far for me? Not many. How many on a ONS? NONE. This situation has caused me enough grief, sorrow and envy, whence listening to my peers going on and on about their hedonistic escapades taking their bodies for granted, that I've been reduced to a despair beyond words, one that's made me consider far more drastic alternatives than male escorts.

 

So never assume you know what someone else can relate to or identify with, and what they cannot, sharing the HUMAN condition.

 

And in your later post, you mention double standards placed on men. I certainly see what you are saying. Points taken. But for every double standard for men, there is an equivalent for women. Just to rattle off a couple (sorry to run off at the mouth, Diabolik, but this does relate), if men are supposed to lose their viriginity at a tender age under 21 (25 for the sake of this thread), who are they supposed to do this with? The girls who are supposed to be virgins, because you expect women to be "pure" and "saintly" and untouched? Second double standard, I am supposed to be holy and pure and virginal and non-promiscuous to be respected, yet who do you feverishly jet your jizz to the hardest? The you watch every day on your computer. I'm supposed to be chaste, but I can't compete with the bodies nor the antics you crave of the women in porn, so I'm left feeling horribly inadequate next to them, and want to emulate them -- but this makes you lose respect for me. Third double-standard, your testosterone asks that you be a stud and high five your bros for being da man. What about my testosterone? (And trust me on this, Ramm, my sexual appetite and yours, toe-to-toe, would be a formidable prospect.) I'm supposed to repress and suppress it. It's fine for you to be a manhore, but it's not fine for me to live it up the same way; you're allowed to revel in your sexual conquests, I'm supposed to be ashamed for the same. So please don't talk to me about double-standards.

 

I'm not trying to create a war here, I'm trying to illustrate how counterproductive it is for you to say the stress and pressure of your being a IMV and the oppression of socio-sexual norms is something incomprehensible or unparalleled for me as a woman.

 

The fact that I'm a woman means I'm simply in a more passive situation usually with dating, which means that if I'm not really a desirable specimen and a virgin at 30, while I'll have as much anguish as you (and I would, believe me, it was bad enough at 18 ), it'd be easier to just let a man have his way with me who is the bottom of the barrel. So that's all I'll give you: approaching the opposite sex is more expected of men, still, as they are still the species' pursuers, by and large. So that could be very, very rough on a man who doesn't feel he has the skills to do this. And yes, this would be a problem particular to men more often than women.

 

So let's look at that issue straight on. Suppose, Ramm, there is an object on a shelf I can't reach, because it's too high up. I CAN'T REACH IT, IT'S TRUE. And then, someone comes over with a stepstool and says, "Here ya go, this'll do it." And then you stand there and say, "I don't want a stepstool. I don't like stepstools. And I should be able to reach that thing without one." I'll agree with you, you can't reach it just by yourself. YOU NEED HELP TO REACH IT. But if you don't take the help, that is YOUR CHOICE. Which is a voluntary action. It means that reaching that object is no longer an involuntary situation, and you are no longer just a hapless person.

 

I don't know anything about you or your life, except this -- some very bad things have happened to you at key developmental junctures in your life. Some of us have deeper scars than others. I myself have great fears around many things, and a couple of phobias as a result of what has happened in my life. And so, the proper response to this is to GET HELP. I would have hoped that you'd have sought it before age 29, since it appears your situation psychologically and emotionally has been getting progressively worse and feeling more hopeless. This is an example of what happens when people don't seek help who need it. I don't believe it's hopeless at all for you, and at 29, I still consider you a young man who has the lion's share of life ahead of you.

 

But you have some serious issues that go way beyond just losing your virginity and I see that particular issue as symptomatic of, and incidental or secondary to, a much larger and pervasive process of estrangement from the human race. I don't care if you had all the suave moves and a seductive charm in the world, if I had any inkling that you hated all people, wanted to see human beings as "interactive objects" and saw women as glorified dolls, just minus pullstrings to make their voices go, that, in all honesty, would "weird me out" so much more than virginity, I think my blood would freeze solid in my veins...let alone what it would do to dry up my coochjuice.

 

As I said, this is NOT hopeless for you, even at your age -- but you have decided you have other priorities. Your life is on fire, but you want to make sure you've got a cold beer in the fridge -- as in, this sexual frustration is gouging your soul out, but right now, you are more concerned about your purchasing status of a firearm??? (in the highly likely event of a crazy person shooting at you?) I don't know a whit about gun purchase laws, so I would defer to those who do know the facts, but it's my impression that all medical records are by law confidential and untouchable even in this case, unless subpoena'd for criminal purposes; the law protects medical information VERY strictly, this much I know personally. And a good solid percentage of Americans are clinically depressed and in treatment -- I can't imagine some of them aren't overlapping NRA members (if you're in the U.S). But regardless, I don't see how your not wanting therapy in order to secure your gun ownership ability is conducive to your healing your life. You need to heal your life, not just have a gun in your possession and a talking piece of meat for a lay, but you have CHOSEN TO MAKE THOSE THE OBJECTIVES AND PRIORITIES. If you had your priorities on healing your life, at 29, you could go into therapy to work on your detachment from people and women, what led up to this, and how to overcome it so that you don't NEED to figure out these spiritually and emotionally devoid ways of "solving" your problem.

 

I certainly don't speak, as I said, on behalf of anyone. And you also do not speak on behalf of all IMV's. I know this because someone very close to me -- my own sister -- recently became involved with a man in his mid-40's who was a virgin until he got with her. True, she herself is not the usual person. But they are having an emotional relationship, and are in love now. He doesn't see women as objects, he doesn't see human beings as props. So, you are an individual in your views, very much so. You are not "the fate" of your demographic. You are someone who has voluntarily decided to forego corrective measures of a particular kind, in favor of others. You have options.

 

Finally, a couple of the contradictions I'm scratching my head over are for one, why you would need to demystify women if you don't even wish to see them as human beings? Their conversation, their thoughts, mean nothing to you on an emotional level. So then...and I don't wish to be rude here or inflammatory, so please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just following your logical line of thinking...why not use a farm animal instead? A farm animal won't cost you money, it won't give you STDs (I'm not sure if it could transmit something else though, so I'd rubber up anyway), your anxiety and nervousness might not be quite as bad, it would not be human either but it would be a warm, living body to insert your member into. And it certainly would be interactive, as well.

 

I was going to respond to your longer post first, only, but since then you've posted another thing, which states that you have in fact asked girls out. So I'm a little confused. You say you can't even speak to men, let alone women. So I'm not sure how these dates or convos developed, but it sounds like you have engaged in conversations with women after all -- they just were not received well.

 

And I have to say, if you are feeling all these things, I must tell you that as a woman, there is no way I'd not be able to pick up on that. People can act well, but no one can act that well. What a person feels inside is conveyed in their eyes, in their expression, in their body language...your disengagement with women in your mind is coming through loud and clear. Whatever is inside, eventually permeates the outside as well. Know this.

 

I wish you'd reconsider therapy, because social anxiety, fears and insecurities can be transformed. It's never too late for anyone. Hey, look at my sister's SO.

 

And I'd hope that none of the younger "I"MVs on this thread would ever think that they HAVE to follow this path if more years went by. I would just say to them, this is something you don’t need to wait until 29 to deal with, if you start to face your demons properly long before that.

 

You don't have to keep hating people and distancing yourself.

 

It does take the desire and will, the intention, not to, though. That must be there.

 

I would say though that if I HAD given up, like I said in a much earlier post, I'd have sex for the hell of it, too, just as I'd ride a motorcycle at the end of my life for that last who-cares-anymore hurrah. I'm just saying, I'm very sorry if you've given up on yourself to this extent, and can only hope that your book will redeem it all.

 

As for real live average women not liking their names used, that is where poetic license comes in. I write as well, and memoirs are in the works -- and all you have to do is make up fictionalized names, and tweak the situations a bit, and viola, no one is exposed. I'm still in the process of figuring out my way around these tricks about anonymity and privacy, as they are not easy the closer to the truth you get, but it can be done.

 

I don't think the craft of literature necessitates a porn star/prostitute.

[diabolik]

Not to be a jerk--and I'm really not trying to be one--but where do you get those figures?

 

Like I said before, there's a difference between going to an agency and cruising down a seedy part of town for a $20 street walker. And if the girl works for a reputable agency, then chances are she's probably not as dirty as one would stereotype.

 

Now, I don't know for certain, but I don't think you do, either.

Organs, those figures pertain to the U.S. adult population, not specifically to prostitutes.

 

If I misunderstood your response, I can dig up a source on the figures.

[ProtestTheHero]

Their conversation, their thoughts, mean nothing to you on an emotional level. So then...and I don't wish to be rude here or inflammatory, so please don't take this the wrong way, I'm just following your logical line of thinking...why not use a farm animal instead? A farm animal won't cost you money, it won't give you STDs (I'm not sure if it could transmit something else though, so I'd rubber up anyway), your anxiety and nervousness might not be quite as bad, it would not be human either but it would be a warm, living body to insert your member into. And it certainly would be interactive, as well.

 

This seems kinda inflammotory because the right answer to this is an obvious one. Sex doesn't have to be "emotional." One can have sex with someone without valuing their conversations, their thoughts, or having an emotional connection. Happens all the time. So WHY choose women? He is a straight male, so his sexual urges involve women. You know this. He knows this. I know this. So the farm animal comment is an odd one, in my opinion.

 

This shouldn't be a thread about gender wars or who has it worse. That's up in the air. But I'd bet money that few women understand what it's like to not be the object of anyone's physical desires...to repulse people and to be literally incapable of making someone feel sexual attraction to your body. That is a far worse feeling than meeting lots of idiots or having failed relationships with jerks because it is the height of helplessness.

 

Women do not understand this feeling, which is why some dudes might get a little annoyed when women give you the "I can relate" speech. That's the only gender issue that's relevant to losing your virginity as a male. The whole stud/w.hore thing is all side stuff.

[tiredofvampires]

This seems kinda inflammotory because the right answer to this is an obvious one. Sex doesn't have to be "emotional." One can have sex with someone without valuing their conversations, their thoughts, or having an emotional connection. Happens all the time. So WHY choose women? He is a straight male, so his sexual urges involve women. You know this. He knows this. I know this. So the farm animal comment is an odd one, in my opinion.

 

I said that about farm animals because of what he said here:

 

I'm also want to do this because just like Diabolik has mentioned about his friend, doing this would allow me to demystify women but not to see them as people, but as mere entities. For if people make me anxious, then I fail to see how seeing a woman as a human being would help me feel at ease with them if I hate people to begin with! I'd much rather see people as interactive objects than as people.

 

Do you not see how extreme these comments are? Do you get on board with this, just curious? I'm saying, if you continue down this line of reasoning, i.e., women aren't to be viewed as human beings (i.e., nonhuman "entities"), this is what you get.

 

That's a lot more than just "I want emotionless sex."

[Capricorn3]

But I'd bet money that few women understand what it's like to not be the object of anyone's physical desires...to repulse people and to be literally incapable of making someone feel sexual attraction to your body.

Are you saying that there aren't any women out there who are sorely lacking in the physically attractive, sexually attractive department, whereby men also find them repulsive, etc etc? I think it would be very much equal in both genders. You make it sound like there are far more males who are "physically repulsive", and I don't think that's the case at all.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood, or misread your post.

[diabolik]

This seems kinda inflammotory because the right answer to this is an obvious one. Sex doesn't have to be "emotional." One can have sex with someone without valuing their conversations, their thoughts, or having an emotional connection. Happens all the time. So WHY choose women? He is a straight male, so his sexual urges involve women. You know this. He knows this. I know this. So the farm animal comment is an odd one, in my opinion.

Agreed. That was way out of left field, TOV, and only serves to show that it is difficult for a woman to relate to this issue. I mean really - a farm animal vs. a hot woman? If you have to ask "why not use a farm animal instead?", you have lost the plot.

This shouldn't be a thread about gender wars or who has it worse.

Also agreed. TOV, I don't think anyone here is suggesting that there are no double standards that work against women, or that the female gender doesn't face their own unique problems.

 

That said, I thought much of your advice to Ramm was useful, and hopefully helpful to him. Obviously I agree with you that, given what he's written, he needs to seek help.

[waveseer]

What happens if the person has a bad sex for hire experience? Wouldn't having a partner that wasn't being paid provide a higher probability of caring and desire? Isn't that what it's really all about?

[diabolik]

What happens if the person has a bad sex for hire experience? Wouldn't having a partner that wasn't being paid provide a higher probability of caring and desire? Isn't that what it's really all about?

Ummm, yeah, if it was easy for these guys to get a partner, this whole thread, and probably hundreds of others on ENA, would be moot.

[tiredofvampires]

Agreed. That was way out of left field, TOV, and only serves to show that it is difficult for a woman to relate to this issue. I mean really - a farm animal vs. a hot woman? If you have to ask "why not use a farm animal instead?", you have lost the plot.

 

If you do not need or want a HUMAN BEING, which is what he said, then why not a fleshlight, why not hole in the fence, why not a farm animal, etc. etc. (a farm animal is living, whereas a fleshlight is inanimate, thus my extrapolation. Get as close to nonhuman as you can while still animate.)

 

And fleshlights have already been suggested for nonemotional sex, with some fanfare.

 

I can't believe you guys can't see this.

 

He said he doesn't want to see a woman as a human being.

 

Jeez.

 

I'm not suggesting he ram (ramm?) a farm animal, but I'm saying with his mentality, that would seem logical.

[waveseer]

Ummm, yeah, if it was easy for these guys to get a partner, this whole thread, and probably hundreds of others on ENA, would be moot.

 

So, you are saying that the better route might be hiring a partner rather than addressing the underlying issue? You'd probably get more support for that somewhere other than a relationship forum.

[diabolik]

If you do not need or want a HUMAN BEING, which is what he said, then why not a fleshlight, why not hole in the fence, why not a farm animal, etc. etc.

 

I can't believe you guys can't see this.

 

He said he doesn't want to see a woman as a human being.

 

Jeez.

You are a woman interpreting his words. Clearly, guys, in this case, PTH and myself, are interpreting his words differently. I'd wager that our interpretation is what he intended.

 

TOV, as much as you are trying to relate - and I commend the effort - I really don't think it's possible. You mentioned how you could count all your partners on two hands, and that that wasn't a lot. For some of these guys, that's very far beyond their reality.

 

Honestly, this is a bit like a guy in his 30s trying to relate to women in their 30s and their desire to get married. Sure, he may really, really want to get married, but most women will still feel like he just doesn't get it.

[DunwichChild]

If you do not need or want a HUMAN BEING, which is what he said, then why not a fleshlight, why not hole in the fence, why not a farm animal, etc. etc. (a farm animal is living, whereas a fleshlight is inanimate, thus my extrapolation. Get as close to nonhuman as you can while still animate.)

 

And fleshlights have already been suggested for nonemotional sex, with some fanfare.

 

I can't believe you guys can't see this.

 

He said he doesn't want to see a woman as a human being.

 

Jeez.

 

I'm not suggesting he ram a farm animal, but I'm saying with his mentality, that would seem logical.

 

I agree with most of your post, I think your advise was awesome, except for that part. He may not see a woman as a human being, but he's going to see them as boobs and ass, something sheep and and dogs can't provide, at least in the anthropomorphic way.

 

I mean, I'm terrified of women, but I like dogs, would you tell me to release my urges on the dog? after all, it may provide a warm orifice. Or better yet, would you ask a serial killer, who raped and killed women, "why didn't you just raped and killed animals?" after all he already objectifies women, but he will say that he didn't want to rape and kill animals, he wanted women. Which is a horrible thing, but that's how the mind works.

[diabolik]

So, you are saying that the better route might be hiring a partner rather than addressing the underlying issue? You'd probably get more support for that somewhere other than a relationship forum.

No, in fact, earlier in this thread, I said something about it being better to resolve the underlying issues.

 

Anyway, I didn't create this thread as a recommendation that shy virgins go out and hire prostitutes. The thread was intended to ask why they hadn't done so, given the potential benefits, and to discuss the issue.

[tiredofvampires]

 

TOV, as much as you are trying to relate - and I commend the effort -

 

Well, I appreciate that, you know why? Because I have a very strong feeling that "You have no idea what I have suffered" is almost something some people might like to lord over someone else.

 

Some people feel that if you can relate, it takes away something from their suffering, for some reason.

 

"My suffering is beyond the pale of your understanding. You cannot empathize, no matter how hard you try. I am inscrutable."

 

As I've said, I will understand ALL PEOPLE incompletely, who are not myself.

 

And so, let's leave it there. I'm clueless. Years of therapy to deal with my feeling ugly, undesirable, unable to function as a sexual being, being petrified of finding myself in a sexual situation, avoiding men, wanting to approach them, wanting to be wanted, wanting to be noticed, feeling I don't match up and dying inside from it can't possibly come close to any of your experiences.

 

And I don't understand that marriage analogy, Diabolik. Because if 2 opposite sex people in their 30's both want to get married badly, I don't see why a man wouldn't "get it."

[waveseer]

No, in fact, earlier in this thread, I said something about it being better to resolve the underlying issues.

 

Anyway, I didn't create this thread as a recommendation that shy virgins go out and hire prostitutes. The thread was intended to ask why they hadn't done so, given the potential benefits, and to discuss the issue.

 

Ah, sorry for the repeat, I'm a bit late to the discussion.

 

As a woman who one day decided she needed to have sex for the first time I can tell you that if it had taken me longer than a few months to find the right man for the task I would have gone CRAZY and have no idea what I would have done so I wouldn't exclude the possibility of a male prostitute. If men feel anything like the way I felt there'd be a prostitute (or 10) available at every gas station and convenience store, legalized, tested, and affordable.

[ProtestTheHero]

Are you saying that there aren't any women out there who are sorely lacking in the physically attractive, sexually attractive department, whereby men also find them repulsive, etc etc? I think it would be very much equal in both genders. You make it sound like there are far more males who are "physically repulsive", and I don't think that's the case at all.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood, or misread your post.

 

I am saying that the standards of most men are so ridiculously low (the phrase screw anything that walks when referring to guys exists for a reason) that a woman born with all her body parts would not have that hard of a time going to a club and hooking up with a regular dude.

 

I think the difference lies in the standards.

[tiredofvampires]

I agree with most of your post, I think your advise was awesome, except for that part. He may not see a woman as a human being, but he's going to see them as boobs and ass, something sheep and and dogs can't provide, at least in the anthropomorphic way.

 

Okay, lol.

 

He needs an anthropomorphic entity object thingy.

 

I'll go with that.

[diabolik]

Well, I appreciate that, you know why? Because I have a very strong feeling that "You have no idea what I have suffered" is almost something some people might like to lord over someone else.

I don't think any of these guys is trying to lord their suffering over anyone else, man or woman. Guys, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Some people feel that if you can relate, it takes away something from their suffering, for some reason.

Yes, of course. But the persons in question (here, the shy virgins) have to feel you can relate. I don't think a woman really could, but maybe I'm wrong, and these guys think you can relate? You'll have to ask them.

 

"My suffering is beyond the pale of your understanding. You cannot empathize, no matter how hard you try. I am inscrutable."

 

As I've said, I will understand ALL PEOPLE incompletely, who are not myself.

 

And so, let's leave it there. I'm clueless. Years of therapy to deal with my feeling ugly, undesirable, unable to function as a sexual being, being petrified of finding myself in a sexual situation, avoiding men, wanting to approach them, wanting to be wanted, wanting to be noticed, feeling I don't match up and dying inside from it can't possibly come close to any of your experiences.

I feel like you are taking this personally. Please don't.

 

No one is saying that you haven't suffered, or that your suffering isn't much greater than what these guys are going through. It is just *different* (again, that's what I think, but it's up to these guys to decide).

 

And I don't understand that marriage analogy, Diabolik. Because if 2 opposite sex people in their 30's both want to get married badly, I don't see why a man wouldn't "get it."

Really? The man may think he 'gets it', but he won't 'feel it' in the way a woman would. If you doubt that, ask a 33y/o single woman who wants to get married if she thinks a 33y/o single man who wants to get married is feeling exactly what she's feeling.

[Capricorn3]

I am saying that the standards of most men are so ridiculously low (the phrase screw anything that walks when referring to guys exists for a reason) that a woman born with all her body parts would not have that hard of a time going to a club and hooking up with a regular dude.

 

I think the difference lies in the standards.

Ahh, okay. But in that case, if men have the "screw anything that walks" mentality, then why are so many still virgins? You'd think that if their standards are set so much lower, and they don't mind "screwing anything that walks", it would make life a lot easier in getting laid, no?

[ProtestTheHero]

Ahh, okay. But in that case, if men have the "screw anything that walks" mentality, then why are so many still virgins? You'd think that if their standards are set so much lower, and they don't mind "screwing anything that walks", it would make life a lot easier in getting laid, no?

 

Most female virgins are virgins by choice. Of all those involuntarily celibate, I'd bet money most are men. I imagine some are women. So yeah, there's a decent amount, but the amount that exist because there is no other option are mostly males..

[diabolik]

Ahh, okay. But in that case, if men have the "screw anything that walks" mentality, then why are so many still virgins? You'd think that if their standards are set so much lower, and they don't mind "screwing anything that walks", it would make life a lot easier in getting laid, no?

Thank you for proving the point I was making to TOV about women not 'getting' this issue.

[DunwichChild]

Ahh, okay. But in that case, if men have the "screw anything that walks" mentality, then why are so many still virgins? You'd think that if their standards are set so much lower, and they don't mind "screwing anything that walks", it would make life a lot easier in getting laid, no?

 

I'd probably puke out of fear even if I approached polio girl. Which is an exaggeration but you get the idea.

[AWT]

I don't see how your not wanting therapy in order to secure your gun ownership ability is conducive to your healing your life. You need to heal your life, not just have a gun in your possession and a talking piece of meat for a lay, but you have CHOSEN TO MAKE THOSE THE OBJECTIVES AND PRIORITIES. If you had your priorities on healing your life, at 29, you could go into therapy to work on your detachment from people and women, what led up to this, and how to overcome it so that you don't NEED to figure out these spiritually and emotionally devoid ways of "solving" your problem.

 

 

A frightening combination... Sorry, but had to say it..

[tiredofvampires]

If these men feel I can't relate sufficiently, then I will just bow out there, and leave it at my advice about seeking prostitution.

 

In the end, my "relating" is not going to help them anyway, so it doesn't matter.

 

Really? The man may think he 'gets it', but he won't 'feel it' in the way a woman would. If you doubt that, ask a 33y/o single woman who wants to get married if she thinks a 33y/o single man who wants to get married is feeling exactly what she's feeling.

 

Now this one I can answer to, though it's off topic. I have been 33. And at the time, I was in an LTR, with someone who I wanted to marry. I thought we were on a marriage track. I had such a deep desire to cement it with him, to close the deal so I could have children. This was an insanely driven time in my life. It was not meant to be though, because he didn't want to get married. And he's still not interested in marriage, even though he's with someone else now. He'll never get married.

 

But that's because some men don't want to get married as much, while others do. I was with the wrong person for my goals. Another man would be feeling he really wants to take the 3+ years we had and make something of it.

 

If he had wanted to get married, I wouldn't need him to feel exactly what I'm feeling, just so long as it was close enough to getting on bent knee, and then standing next to me while we say our vows. That's all the relating I need.

[tiredofvampires]

Thank you for proving the point I was making to TOV about women not 'getting' this issue.

 

Actually, that's the post I wrote and then deleted, hehaha.

 

So why not explain it?

 

What the thread has been saying is that the guys are just too FRIGHTENED to talk to someone. Isn't that what we've gone over? It's not that they can't screw anyone, it's that they can't TALK to someone who WOULD screw them.

 

Or am I wrong?

 

What are Capricorn and myself missing here?