Guys with hang ups on overweight girls.

[Sparkly Eyes]

 

I would rather date a guy who keeps bugging me to have a dessert until I finally cave in, so we can share it together, than one who will say "I'm outta here" if I wanted one.

 

exactly. Awesome as always TOV!

[tiredofvampires]

Thanks, worriedgirl...

 

I would just have to revise a bit though, that what I said was I'd go on a date with Diabolik and what would happen is I'd try to feel out what was polite by not eating. Actually, that's what I would have done up until recently. Now, I think I'd just eat what I pleased, and use it as a screening tool.

 

Truth is, I think I might have already lost my chance with him and blown it by the time we got to the dinner table, by inadvertently walking in the improper formation (in front or back of him) on the way to the table. So I'd be already long screwed by the time the check was arriving, lol.

[diabolik]

But I don't think you should be judging what statistics about American obesity are against the woman sitting in front of you, at a restaurant, if she is not overweight and merely finishing her entree portion. I think it's reasonable to assume that if she's not shy about eating all her food because she has the appetite to, and she's not overweight, that she knows what she's doing.

And the older she is, the more likely it is that she is adept at adapting to a relatively slower metabolism. I would interpret a 21y/o and a 41y/o routinely finishing her American-sized entree in different lights. Most of those young women will find that their eating habits are inconsistent, over the long-term, with keeping their figure. Some will adapt, some will not.

 

I'd actually be more worried about the girl who doesn't seem to want to eat much, saying, "I'm stuffed!" after half her meal is eaten and doesn't order dessert. She's the type that will secretly in her kitchen late at night make up for it. Then feel bad the next day about it, and not eat much for lunch. Ad nauseum.

This is a great point. And if a girl eats only a few bites of her restaurant meal routinely, then I suspect that this is what's going on. Needless to say, I take a pretty dim view of this type of behavior.

 

I also think if you have a lot of consciousness about not wasting food, you won't generalize with a rule about a woman finishing her food. I was basing what I said on the fact that you made a general rule about a woman finishing what was on her plate. I don't think a particular woman's eating habits reflect the entire weight problem in America, so for a woman like myself, for instance, who eats the full portion I've been given most of the time, I think as someone who does not have a weight issue, it ought to count as something that I'm not wasting my valuable food just to be fashionable and appear not to be a glutton.

The typical portion sizes in America are too large/calorie-rich for the average man, much less the average woman. Hence, the average woman who routinely finishes her American/over-sized restaurant meals will eventually become overweight. The fact that you can do so in your early-40s w/o becoming overweight suggests that you are not the average woman.

 

Once a person orders a particular meal, whether they finish it or not, if finishing requires overconsuming, as is typically the case in America, makes no difference to the global affordability of food. In fact, if they abstained from overconsumption and took home the leftovers to use for another meal, that would help lower global food costs. So one's finishing their meal at an American restaurant isn't necessarily socially responsible behavior, and vice versa for not finishing their meal. Not ordering what you are not going to finish is socially responsible, but given American sized portions, not always possible.

 

Of course, yes, there is the take out box. But usually, I don't want it because I'm eating what MY body needs. I don't find portions as huge as other people seem to. Most people say they are "stuffed" a few bites in, and meanwhile I feel like my appetite has just been whet. I get the comment "where do you put it all?" sometimes at parties, lol. Which I can't tell is a compliment or an underhanded insult (i.e., "Normally, you'd be fat from this, you pig!" haha) I don't eat rich foods, greasy stuff, processed snack foods, junk food, soda, sugary foods (so I usually don't eat dessert anyway, but now and again like the treat), so when I eat a robust meal, I eat a lot of it, but it's clean, usually. It's not a big secret. I don't work out tons, either (though I do want to get more in shape right now.)

I'm not blind to what a person eats in favor of pure volume. And I am more impressed when women order a meal with a nice balance of fats/protein/carbs, rather than a carb rich pasta meal, or order a salad as a starter rather than a carb bomb as a dessert.

 

So if I was having my first date with you, I think it'd be quite jumping the gun and wrong for me to have to waste a bit of my food just to prove to you that I won't "let myself go" if we were married. I'd probably sense you were that type though, and do just that -- I'd think, "I get the feeling this is one of those guys that would think I'm really being a glutton to finish this, so I'll just leave it. I'm still kinda hungry...but...I want a second date with him, we had a nice dinner. What a pity this is going to be, to discard, it's perfectly good." Then I'd go home after telling you I loved our date, and look in my fridge, take out a couple of containers of yogurt, look for some fruit, and think, "I kind of wish this was the other half of that enchilada, instead. Bummers. I wonder how long 'til we get past this stage. Maybe if we get as far as sex, he'll be into me enough after that, that I can loosen up and eat more. Maybe once he loves me more. We'll see."

When I said "I'm gone if she orders dessert", I was trying to provoke some discussion. Since I date fit women, ordering one dessert or finishing one oversized meal is hardly fatal in my eyes. If this is routine behavior, that's when I worry. Here's an example: I dated a fit girl who would pour in what must have been ~6 teaspoons of refined sugar into her daily coffee. She spent a LOT of time in the gym. Her dietary habits are unsustainable. Once she gets married and has kids and has less time to work out, her inability to keep her sweet tooth in check is going to result in lots of fat. Is it possible she will become disciplined enough to eat more sensibly? Yes. But in a country where the vast majority are overweight, the odds suggest she will not.

[diabolik]

how "men are shallow" and "men are being men" contradict each other?lol to me it is like "men are just being men when they are shallow" which is equal to"being men results in being shallow" which means "men are shallow"..

Labeling men as shallow for preferring physically attractive women suggests that their preferences are under conscious control. Evolutionary theory suggests that they are not. So if a man's preferences reflect his genetic wiring, is he being shallow or is he just being a man?

 

but I still attract them even with the extra pounds I have. Maybe because my extra weight is in good places, I don't know.

Sure, every woman can attract some men. The fact that even very obese women get married is proof of that. We are not in disagreement here.

 

The point is if guys that love you the way you are(and I mean hopefully a healthy you) exist, why do you date obsessive guys who might nag at you for every pound you lose or gain? I don't even want those guys to be attracted to me! I understand if a guy wants me to be healthy, asks me to exercise and look good, but going on and on about it, no thanks!

I don't nag women for every pound they gain. And if the average woman gained 10 pounds over the course of 20 years, which approximates how the issue has been stated numerous times in this thread, this country wouldn't have an overweight/obesity epidemic. The reality is that people tend to gain a lot more than that.

[rocio]

Labeling men as shallow for preferring physically attractive women suggests that their preferences are under conscious control. Evolutionary theory suggests that they are not. So if a man's preferences reflect his genetic wiring, is he being shallow or is he just being a man?

 

How about this - Women have been genetically wired to seek good providers. So, if a woman refuses to date any man who doesn't make six figures and take her on lavish dates, is she being shallow or is she just being a woman?

 

To answer your question, I'd say he's being shallow if this is something he frequently thinks about, talks about, and concentrates an enormous portion of his energy on. If it's just a subconscious factor in his attraction for women, which he neither obsesses over nor lectures other on, then I'd say it's pretty natural and not the least bit shallow.

[diabolik]

How about this - Women have been genetically wired to seek good providers. So, if a woman refuses to date any man who doesn't make six figures and take her on lavish dates, is she being shallow or is she just being a woman?

If she marries a man who's personality she doesn't love simply b/c he is wealthy, then yes, I'd say that's being shallow. And I'd say the same for a man who marries a Victoria Secret model that he doesn't love simply b/c she's hot.

 

To answer your question, I'd say he's being shallow if this is something he frequently thinks about, talks about, and concentrates an enormous portion of his energy on. If it's just a subconscious factor in his attraction for women, which he neither obsesses over nor lectures other on, then I'd say it's pretty natural and not the least bit shallow.

Wow. I'm only trying to provide some balance to the discussion here at ENA. There is much smoke being blown up many butts here, and I'm just candidly saying what I think as a man. If you think I'm not at all representative of men, then feel free to dismiss me as a wackjob. My experience has been that many men feel the same way, but are much less vocal about it.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

The title of this thread is not "girls with hangups about overweight guys." If you want that thread, start it, sure it will get lots of play here also. BUT that's not -this- thread.

 

I've seen nothing in diabolik's posts that suggests that he -hates- women, and am tired of seeing the word "hate" used like this. Never see men, other than gay men, using, or rather abusing, the word this way.

You don't have to agree.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

How about this - Women have been genetically wired to seek good providers. So, if a woman refuses to date any man who doesn't make six figures and take her on lavish dates, is she being shallow or is she just being a woman?

 

To answer your question, I'd say he's being shallow if this is something he frequently thinks about, talks about, and concentrates an enormous portion of his energy on. If it's just a subconscious factor in his attraction for women, which he neither obsesses over nor lectures other on, then I'd say it's pretty natural and not the least bit shallow.

 

Exactly right. Well put.

[diabolik]

also, I went and found the forum with responses to the 'why oh why aren't you hot' article. and besides the fact that users there were mostly into bodybuilding, there still were some who responded as how some sensitive ENAer would respond.

Yes, there is a variety of opinion there, as there is on ENA. My point is that the majority of the responses were very different than the majority of responses such an article would receive at ENA.

 

Anyway, I'm glad you read it, and wish more women would.

[ghost69]

How about this - Women have been genetically wired to seek good providers. So, if a woman refuses to date any man who doesn't make six figures and take her on lavish dates, is she being shallow or is she just being a woman?

 

To answer your question, I'd say he's being shallow if this is something he frequently thinks about, talks about, and concentrates an enormous portion of his energy on. If it's just a subconscious factor in his attraction for women, which he neither obsesses over nor lectures other on, then I'd say it's pretty natural and not the least bit shallow.

 

how did this get to guys and their money. well, if it's her preference, it's her preference. her preference isn't the man it's the money. i think dating for material purposes is a bit shallow. how about dating the same guy with less money but lives comfortably? would she? if she says no, then she's shallow.

 

there is a huge difference than having 6 figures and being homeless yes. is it really the same as saying overweight versus in shape? ehhh, not really.

[livinginsbi]

there is a huge difference than having 6 figures and being homeless yes. is it really the same as saying overweight versus in shape? ehhh, not really.

 

 

why is that? Seems you claim that everybody has the ability to be in shape...same can be said for finanaces... everybody has the ability to make money

[ghost69]

why is that? Seems you claim that everybody has the ability to be in shape...same can be said for finanaces... everybody has the ability to make money

 

right, but the thread is about a person and the things they have been given...a body and a personality. money isn't a part of who you are. it can contribute to your personality, but it isn't who you are. see my point now? it's a material object.

[livinginsbi]

no, because I think people who are used to having expendable money... it IS a part of who the are. I don't see how wanting a man with 6 figures is any more or less shallow that a man wanting a woman with an athletic body.. it's all about preference.

[ghost69]

no, because I think people who are used to having expendable money... it IS a part of who the are. I don't see how wanting a man with 6 figures is any more or less shallow that a man wanting a woman with an athletic body.. it's all about preference.

 

agree to disagree.

[Zeitgeist]

I think diabolik is being given too much flack for being pretty honest about a topic that most guys walk on eggshells about. This is not a black and white matter about simply being overweight or not. It's about degrees. The vast majority of guys would probably choose someone who was very very very fit if granted a wish by a genie. But you usually end up deciding on your priorities. So if a girl has an amazing personality and is still pretty attractive, she would probably be able to get away with "a few extra pounds". But there is a fuzzy limit and if she goes well above it, a guy's going to lose his attraction. Where the actual line is, depends on an individual. The closer to being "fit" you are, the less an issue it is obviously.

 

The protests in this thread are somewhat hypocritical because women have this limit too when it comes to weight. The only difference is that their acceptability range might be a little wider (pun intended). Are you women who are protesting, saying that you would be attracted to someone if they were 450 lbs (regardless of height)? I'm going to venture a guess that the answer is no. So then where's the cutoff point? The real reason you protest is because men don't have the SAME degree of tolerance as you, not because men shouldn't care about weight at all.

 

This applies to the money issue as well. Guys have a much wider range of acceptable income when it comes to women. Many will even be okay with a housewife. How many women can say that about a jobless husband who doesn't bring in any income? Some women insist that money isn't a factor, but that's only because they're making the assumption that the guy is making a certain minimum. As someone earlier mentioned, if they were completely broke and had no job, are you really going to say with a straight face that it wouldn't matter at all as long as you loved them for who they are?

 

Of all the things that women AND men protest about - age, race, height, money - it's hardest to have sympathy for this one. Why? Because unlike the others, this is one you can actually do something about. No one said it was easy. But your choice is to make that effort to take care of your body, or to sit at home wishing that the universe would change to make you happy. And let's face it, if it were really just a matter of a few pounds (within 10% of their ideal weight), I would venture to guess most guys wouldn't care (I wouldn't). But many women who say they are only "slightly overweight" are in serious denial.

[NightLily]

Shouldn't people just care about their bodies regardless if they are with somebody or not? Why it would make any difference in letting yourself go I have no idea.

 

If somebody was gaining weight because they were a bum that ate nothing but junk I would leave them because I don't see myself being happy with that sort of lifestyle in the long run.

[rocio]

My husband doesn't make money. I haven't dumped him yet. In fact, I couldn't be more proud of him.

 

...Go figure.

[velvette]

The protests in this thread are somewhat hypocritical because women have this limit too when it comes to weight. The only difference is that their acceptability range might be a little wider (pun intended). Are you women who are protesting, saying that you would be attracted to someone if they were 450 lbs (regardless of height)? I'm going to venture a guess that the answer is no. So then where's the cutoff point then? The real reason you protest is because men don't have the SAME degree of tolerance as you, not because men shouldn't care about weight at all.

 

wow that is very true.

also, comparing women's view on income tolerance is a good way to go. I want a successful guy more than a handsome guy. very interesting. just as some guys claim fitness is not 'just' what they are attracted to, but the fact that a fit women would have a personality that reflects this (ie takes care of herself, respects her body etc)--a rich guy would have a personality that is dependable, dominant, commanding, smart, etc. most likely, depending on how he got rich. if he won the lottery, that wouldn't be as attractive as if he worked for it. just as, I'm sure, women who are naturally pretty are more attractive than women who had to undergo lots of plastic surgery.

 

I'm just making a blanket statement though. I think liking someone for money is fairly similar to liking someone for 'fitness'. and of course there are people who will love each other no matter what, but I think that's a lesser percentage.

[Zeitgeist]

My husband doesn't make money. I haven't dumped him yet. In fact, I couldn't be more proud of him.

...Go figure.

Good for you. I mean that. But I was making generalizations for the sake of discussion. Naturally there are always exceptions. But this thread is filled with women who complain about not finding the exceptions. BTW, is he obese and shorter than you? If he is, then with all sincerity I bow to your complete lack of superficiality.

 

Now imagine some guy posts a thread that he can't find any women who won't care that he doesn't have a job and doesn't ever wish to find one. Should this guy just hope that a woman comes along one day who makes enough for both of them and is happy to work while he stays at home, and loves him no matter what? He could and he might find her, just like your husband found you. But this isn't about you. Do you honestly believe his chances of finding a gf or wife is EQUALLY as good (or bad) if he remains jobless than if he were to get a career with steady income?

 

Why are people so fond of pointing to exceptions and then suggesting it disproves the rule?

[midnightrambler]

why is that? Seems you claim that everybody has the ability to be in shape...same can be said for finanaces... everybody has the ability to make money

 

some people aren't smart enough to make six figures

[dragon lady]

Now imagine some guy posts a thread that he can't find any women who won't care that he doesn't have a job and doesn't ever wish to find one. Should this guy just hope that a woman comes along one day who makes enough for both of them and is happy to work while he stays at home, and loves him no matter what? He could and he might find her, just like your husband found you. But this isn't about you. Do honestly believe his chances of finding a gf or wife is EQUALLY as good if he remains jobless than if he were to get a career with steady income?

 

Not likely. I would support a guy I was with if he lost his job, but I wouldn't date a guy who didn't have one to begin with (assuming he wasn't in school).

 

 

Why are people so fond of pointing to exceptions and then suggesting it disproves the rule?

 

My pet hate!

[velvette]

some people aren't smart enough to make six figures

 

and some people aren't smart enough to track their calories. or something similar. I think money/physique is a good comparison, anyway!

[greywolf]

I didn't really want to get into the whole overweight debate because I can see it from both sides, but I do have to say that comparing weight to money is a valid comparison IMO.

[diabolik]

My husband doesn't make money. I haven't dumped him yet. In fact, I couldn't be more proud of him.

 

...Go figure.

I’d guess that he’s in a graduate program or recently laid off and looking for work. And if I’m correct, your ‘exception’ is hardly an exception.

 

The real reason you protest is because men don't have the SAME degree of tolerance as you, not because men shouldn't care about weight at all.

Well said.

 

And let's face it, if it were really just a matter of a few pounds (within 10% of their ideal weight), I would venture to guess most guys wouldn't care (I wouldn't). But many women who say they are only "slightly overweight" are in serious denial.

So true. Casual perusal of any online dating site would confirm this.

 

Why are people so fond of pointing to exceptions and then suggesting it disproves the rule?

 

My pet hate!

Mine too.

 

I didn't really want to get into the whole overweight debate because I can see it from both sides, but I do have to say that comparing weight to money is a valid comparison IMO.

I agree, insomuch as it relates to our innate preferences in a mate. I think an important difference is that it is not possible for everyone to make a lot of money. Nearly everyone can lose extra weight if they wanted to.

[dragon lady]

If we want to talk about exceptions, check out this guy:

 

He's the fattest man in the world and he just got married. In true ENA tradition, I'm going to say that there is hope for everyone!