Guys with hang ups on overweight girls.

[ProtestTheHero]

That would be pretty inconsistent if he was arguing intellectually, and I've certainly been the victim of enough so-called (I don't refer to it as shallow) shallow preferences that I KNOW women are no more forgiving than Diabolik is.

 

But, I imagine since he's only attracted to women, that's where his focus lies.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I'm sorry you've only met women like that, PTH. It's really disgusting.

[cat_lady]

I don't know..there is something that caught my attention before - that depresses me. If a man tells his wife that she should be working on losing the weight or else he will leave, that's not going to make her feel any more motivated to do anything. I imagine that it would make her feel hopeless and alone from that point on. I understand that the man wants to feel attracted to her, and would want her to take care of herself..but saying something like that to someone..i just can't imagine how that would work.

 

Well, I dont think that a man should be staying or leaving his wife b/c of her weight. But I do think that sexual attraction is an important part of a healthy relationship, and if either partner feels that the one has let themselves go to the point where the attraction is being affect, then it needs to be discussed.

 

At least I hope that when I'm married, my husband will respect whatever physical attributes attract me to men to keep up with those.

[ProtestTheHero]

I'm sorry you've only met women like that, PTH. It's really disgusting.

 

It's cool, they were more or less right about me anyways, which is what pissed me off the most.

 

Personally, I feel that if I date someone it's on me to maintain what I was when she first agreed to go out with me, that way I'm not just bagging someone and then letting myself go and banking on her emotional tie to me to keep her. Not really fair on my part, but letting yourself go and 10 pounds in 20 years aren't exactly the same thing...although weight will never be an issue for me. Maybe skin or something, IDK.

[dragon lady]

It would be the greatest of all ironies...

I meant focusing on the weight of women instead of both men and women, though.

 

Have the love the internet, though.

 

Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

I don't want to gang up on him because I do agree with a lot of what he is saying. I just think that maybe it's being taken a bit too far. I guess everyone has something that's an instant deal breaker, right?

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

Wouldn't that be awesome?

 

I don't want to gang up on him because I do agree with a lot of what he is saying. I just think that maybe it's being taken a bit too far. I guess everyone has something that's an instant deal breaker, right?

 

There is no doubt that if you're pissed about being fat you should lose weight. He's beaten that to death despite the fact that we all agree.

 

Some people are just controversial. Makes this place interesting.

 

He can choose not to date a woman who eats more than a specific percentage of the food on her plate. He has that right and should have that right.

 

But methinks he doth protest too much....

[tiredofvampires]

I'm certainly warming up to the idea with time, lol. It's mutual, though. They hated me first, so I feel like I can at least use that as an excuse and sound ridiculously mature.

 

Do it, PTH. It'll be your time to shine.

 

And I mean that in all the most lovable of ways, you know that.

 

Make an OP to end OPs. It better be a comprehensive and exhaustive list, starting with your own.

 

 

[tiredofvampires]

He can choose not to date a woman who eats more than a specific percentage of the food on her plate. He has that right and should have that right.

 

But methinks he doth protest too much....

 

Me also thinks he doth not picture the people in Somalia and Ethiopia who would live 3 more days (edit, 3 more months) on the bit of entree she is cavalierly leaving.

[velvette]

I'm chill, like the other side of the pillow.

 

that was the best simile I've heard all month.

 

"Why-Oh-Why Aren't You Hot?" was a very interesting read and made me rethink some things. my boyfriend's promised to love me no matter what, fat or thin, but now I think that's an unfair promise (for him). I should strive to take care of my body, not stuff it with junk food and immobility. although I would love him no matter what too, and I'm less visual than him, now I know I would make him stay healthy, even if I don't mind visually. it's just better for health and peace of mind.

 

I've seen dog-lovers, upon seeing an overweight dog, exclaim in horror 'what neglect! what abuse!'. true, the dog can not consciously control his weight, and his health is in the hands of his owner. but his owner, who can control his own weight and chooses not to; isn't that self-neglect, self-abuse?

 

HOWEVER I don't like absolute health nuts either, as personally I enjoy a balance of mental and physical stimulation. the health advisor lady who wrote an article on how food is fuel, blahblahblah, and slyly said 'oh... but sometimes I cheat. five weeks ago, I let myself have 3 whole almonds!'.... I personally like a person who WILL drink that occasional frappa, if they enjoy it. and not mind the occasional fast food outing, if that's how the plan goes. but still take overall care of their physique, stretch and exercise and eat well most of the time.

[Alezia]

 

He can choose not to date a woman who eats more than a specific percentage of the food on her plate. He has that right and should have that right.

 

 

The poor girl who just ran a 20K marathon only gets half her salad right? She'll get super fat otherwise

[diabolik]

I'm sorry, but I lol'd. What if the girl has good metabolism? sheesh. lol

When I say I'm gone if a girl orders a dessert, I'm exaggerating a bit just to spark some discussion. BUT I will notice, especially if it's a regular thing.

 

Let's put it in context.

1. I would hardly be worried if a mere 10% of the population was overweight. But the figure is ~70%. And if they break that down by age, I would guess that it's greater than 70% for people in their 40s, 50s and 60s, and lower for those in their 20s and 30s. All of this means that if one has a preference for fit people, one has to be careful in choosing a life partner.

 

2. I burn more calories than most of the women I date, and I don't eat dessert, so if she's routinely out-eating me, she's likely going to get fat. That's just playing the odds. Is it possible that I'm wrong? Sure. It's also possible that a guy who exhibits many of the characteristics of a man who abuses women isn't actually an abuser, but you'd play the odds here too, no?

 

3. If the girl is an avid runner, cyclist, swimmer, weightlifter, that makes all the difference in the world.

 

4. I picked on dessert b/c it's typically such a poor food choice, unless we're talking fruits. The average American diet is already too carb heavy. And dessert exemplifies this.

 

No, that most men notice a few lbs. I mean, maybe on someone who is 4'11, but on someone of average height and on the lower end of a healthy weight it's really not a big deal. I wouldn't even notice that on most girls.

 

 

 

What is the solution then? Eat less, stay thin and make him uncomfortable OR Eat it all & gain weight?

Maybe. But you're not seeing the girl naked. In any event, a few pounds typically isn't the issue. If it were just a case of a few pounds, we wouldn't be having an overweight/obesity epidemic.

 

We are talking like it's only the women who get fat here.

 

Diabolik, you say that women would have a bigger dating pool if they stay slim, but what if the majority of men are fat too? I can't imagine that 60% of the population is going to stop dating because they can't get someone who is slim.

Sure, guys get fat too. I'm talking about women b/c I'm a heterosexual man. If someone wants to talk about fat guys, let's do so. As I've said before, I have even less sympathy for a fat guy who is unhappy with his figure.

 

Even if *all* the men were fat, a fit woman is going to have a greater selection of men to choose from than an overweight woman. But all the men aren't fat, so we're just farting around with hypotheticals here.

So, if I clean my plate because I'm a hearty eater, you'd be turned off?

 

I can almost eat like a man, though I'm at normal weight and keep it there.

TOV, please see my response to greywolf above. Also, a woman your age who is not overweight has obviously already adjusted to a relatively slower metabolism - i.e., you know what works for you in your 40s. A lot of the non-overweight women in their 20s are going to be in for a rude awakening as they get older unless they change their dietary habits.

 

I don't know..there is something that caught my attention before - that depresses me. If a man tells his wife that she should be working on losing the weight or else he will leave, that's not going to make her feel any more motivated to do anything. I imagine that it would make her feel hopeless and alone from that point on. I understand that the man wants to feel attracted to her, and would want her to take care of herself..but saying something like that to someone..i just can't imagine how that would work.

And this is why many men in relationships with a woman who is getting fat feel like they are stuck. They know that saying something could easily make things worse, but not saying something is akin to tacit acceptance. I don't have the answer for this, so I'm careful about who I date so that I reduce the odds of finding myself in that situation.

 

That's diabolik for you, though. I have never encountered someone who appear to hate women more than him.

Oh please. I love women. I just don't have a lot of patience for overweight women who complain that there is nothing they can do about their weight.

 

It would be the greatest of all ironies...

It certainly would be. But I'm not overweight.

 

Me also thinks he doth not picture the people in Somalia and Ethiopia who would live 3 more days (edit, 3 more months) on the bit of entree she is cavalierly leaving.

TOV, I am more aware of the starvation/malnourishment that occurs globally than most. And I was raised in a family where we never wasted food. But I was also taught not to overeat. And if Americans and other western populations didn't consume more than they burn, the cost of food globally would be significantly lower.

 

In established relationships, either the woman or I will take home any leftovers. It's obviously more awkward to do that during the first few dates. And I certainly wish portion sizes at restaurants were smaller, but it is what it is.

 

"Why-Oh-Why Aren't You Hot?" was a very interesting read and made me rethink some things.

I'm glad you read it. I wish all women would. He expresses what many men don't dare say to their women. Read the comments to see how men responded to the article (hint: they did not respond the way the typical ENA member would to such an article).

 

The poor girl who just ran a 20K marathon only gets half her salad right? She'll get super fat otherwise

If you are familiar with my posts, then you know I don't agree with that. But please, go ahead and mock me.

[dragon lady]

I read the article. He definitely does not respond the way someone on ENA typically would. You are right about that. Then again, this place is more about building confidence, not destroying it, no matter how harsh the reality is.

 

Diabolik, I take it you are quite familiar with the theories of evolutionary psychology? I took a class on it recently and at first I was quite shocked about what was being said. The theories of attraction almost made me feel ill because they went against everything I've been taught to believe. I was very much in denial about what was being said and continued to roll my eyes. Then I started to read more and more about it and it started to make sense. I realized that a lot of this stuff was so completely obvious that I was foolish to think anything else. A lot of it still bothers me because I do not fit into the perfect criteria of what is considered attractive. Most people don't (and never will) and that upsets them.

 

This is where I think it's difficult to strike a balance between reality and sensitivity. Is it really necessary to tell people exactly what is wrong with them in a totally no nonsense kind of way? Or should we just let them be happy with who are? If they are not happy with who they are, does it help to tell them or will it make them feel worse? I am a lot more knowledgeable now that I've taken this class, but at the same time I'm feeling a lot more insecure. I know now that things I thought were "unique" in my personality and appearance are actually very unattractive to most men. I can't tell if I'm better off or not.

[velvette]

ooh dragon lady, could you tell us more about evolutionary psychology? what is it that shocked you most? I am very interested. if you could recommend good books/sites, that would be helpful too!

[Sparkly Eyes]

I know now that things I thought were "unique" in my personality and appearance are actually very unattractive to most men. I can't tell if I'm better off or not.

 

Can I ask what are they dragon? just curious!

[diabolik]

I read the article. He definitely does not respond the way someone on ENA typically would. You are right about that. Then again, this place is more about building confidence, not destroying it, no matter how harsh the reality is.

It's not just him - read the comments from readers; I think if you google " 'why oh why aren't you hot?' comments", you'll find it. I'd link to it, but since ENA won't let me link the article, I'm guessing they'd feel the same way about a link to the comments.

 

Sure, we can build confidence. But it's impossible to build real confidence in a person when the person knows the reality they have experienced is different. As an example, we could tell a guy with a 3" penis that women don't care about size. He could be told that by hundreds of ENA members, but if his experience has confirmed that women do care, then any confidence he derives from our validations is false confidence. Rather than blow smoke up his butt, we should tell him what he can do to please a woman, given his limitations.

 

But note the difference b/w this example and the overweight person - there's nothing the guy can do to make his penis bigger, but most overweight people can readily do something about their weight.

 

Diabolik, I take it you are quite familiar with the theories of evolutionary psychology?

Somewhat, yes. Evolutionary biology as well.

 

I took a class on it recently and at first I was quite shocked about what was being said. The theories of attraction almost made me feel ill because they went against everything I've been taught to believe. I was very much in denial about what was being said and continued to roll my eyes. Then I started to read more and more about it and it started to make sense. I realized that a lot of this stuff was so completely obvious that I was foolish to think anything else. A lot of it still bothers me because I do not fit into the perfect criteria of what is considered attractive. Most people don't (and never will) and that upsets them.

 

This is where I think it's difficult to strike a balance between reality and sensitivity. Is it really necessary to tell people exactly what is wrong with them in a totally no nonsense kind of way? Or should we just let them be happy with who are? If they are not happy with who they are, does it help to tell them or will it make them feel worse? I am a lot more knowledgeable now that I've taken this class, but at the same time I'm feeling a lot more insecure. I know now that things I thought were "unique" in my personality and appearance are actually very unattractive to most men. I can't tell if I'm better off or not.

Well, as in many cases in life, ignorance can be bliss. But when it comes to attraction, most of us are not truly ignorant, b/c while we may hold certain, very idealistic, beliefs, we also live in the real world and observe what is happening. The overweight, successful female executive who is surrounded by friends who say that she is such a catch, may believe it to some extent, but she sees that outside the office, her fit secretary gets the lion's share of male attention.

 

And knowledge can be power. Knowing what you know now, you can change certain things to increase your appeal to men. And when it comes to weight, well, there are few things a person can change about themselves as easy as weight.

 

Let's say you didn't take the course. You're more confident, but you have less success with men. Eventually that will erode your confidence. Your current insecurity is temporary b/c you are faced with the stark gap between what you thought was attractive to men and what is actually attractive to men. But as you make changes to those things you can change, you will experience greater success, and that will give you real confidence, not false confidence.

[dragon lady]

ooh dragon lady, could you tell us more about evolutionary psychology? what is it that shocked you most? I am very interested. if you could recommend good books/sites, that would be helpful too!

 

A lot of it has already been mentioned within this thread. The whole idea behind it is that people will select mates based on who will produce the healthiest and most successful offspring. In general, men will be attracted to women with certain traits such as symmetry (a sign of health), waist to hip ratio (sign of fertility), nurturing (a sign that she will care for her kids) and a low number of sex partners (a sign that she is faithful and that his parental investment will not be wasted on another man's child). Women on the other hand, tend to be attracted to men who are good providers & are willing to invest in her offspring. Women tend to care less about sexual infidelity than men because she is always certain that she is the mother, but he can never be certain of who the father is. Women care more about emotional infidelity because of the fear that he will invest his resources in another woman...

 

Basically, it goes on and on like this. Just about very gender stereotype you can think of has been shown to have some truth attached to it through a ton of studies.

 

Here is one long overview by David Buss, who is the main source for a lot of these theories.

 

link removed

[greywolf]

i took a cultural anthropology class once, and it discussed many of those things as well.

[littlestar]

Why is this? You get on really well, but being overweight stands in your way,say maybe 2,3 stone. Are most men attracted to girls that are thin? Have a guy friend who mentions weight quite often.](*,)

 

These types of people i think are quite shallow and they cant get past the physical side of a person and thats quite sad as they could be missing out on something really great.

 

I read a book recently where the author was writing about looks and how much a persons looks is valued in society, especially when seeking out a mate. She also went on to say that she was out shopping one day and saw the most physically attractive lady she had ever laid eyes on and in her words she said she was "lucky enough to start conversation" with this lady and said that in under 5 minutes her physical appearance changed for her and she seemed like the ugliest person on this planet. Why? Because this lady had a bad personality -rude and vulgar and a plan whinger.

 

The thing a lot of people fail to realise is good looks doesnt always = a nice person.

Good looks and a lean body are one thing to admire from a distance but get to know the person and you may just find they're not as good looking and slim as you thought!

 

I have experienced this first hand, my ex is a real looker, and if i dare say so he is a splitting image of Jason Priestly. But when i got to know him, oh dear he is an ugly person, a very ugly person. I'd much rather be with a man who is over weight that treats me right rather than a good looking skinny one that treats me like crap.

[velvette]

dragon lady, all those things you said I've heard of in one form or another. how are they shocking? or is it just that you used to think they couldn't be true? thanks for the link, but it won't load for me. booo >_

 

also, I went and found the forum with responses to the 'why oh why aren't you hot' article. and besides the fact that users there were mostly into bodybuilding, there still were some who responded as how some sensitive ENAer would respond.

 

hmm.

[dragon lady]

Can I ask what are they dragon? just curious!

 

Where oh where do I begin?

 

Physical:

- My face is not symmetrical

- My skin is not very clear

- Although slim I'm not "fit"

 

All of these things would indicate that I was not among the most healthy of women out there

 

Personality:

- I have no desire for children

- I'm not nurturing

- I have no issues with casual sex

- History of depression

 

All of these things are considered negative things for the average male, since our species has evolved to want to reproduce. Since I do not want to reproduce, what good am I?

 

Now this doesn't mean I'm going to be single forever, but what nature wants and what I want are against each other. This means it will be more difficult to find someone on the same page.

[velvette]

oh I just thought of something, while forwarding the 'why-oh-why' article to my dear boyfriend heh.

 

like I would REALLY wish to believe "you love me so you find me beautiful", but at least a little bit will have to be "you find me beautiful so you love me". idealism vs reality I suppose.

[dragon lady]

dragon lady, all those things you said I've heard of in one form or another. how are they shocking? or is it just that you used to think they couldn't be true? thanks for the link, but it won't load for me. booo >_

 

also, I went and found the forum with responses to the 'why oh why aren't you hot' article. and besides the fact that users there were mostly into bodybuilding, there still were some who responded as how some sensitive ENAer would respond.

 

hmm.

 

I grew up in an environment that was all about loving everyone for who they are. I was always told that it was what is on the inside that counts. Couple that with the common belief within society that someone will love you for who you are no matter what and that you should never change. This may be true to an extent, but it's not very sound advice for someone who is trying to improve their dating prospects.

[Sparkly Eyes]

Where oh where do I begin?

 

Physical:

- My face is not symmetrical

- My skin is not very clear

- Although slim I'm not "fit"

 

All of these things would indicate that I was not among the most healthy of women out there

 

Personality:

- I have no desire for children

- I'm not nurturing

- I have no issues with casual sex

- History of depression

 

All of these things are considered negative things for the average male, since our species has evolved to want to reproduce. Since I do not want to reproduce, what good am I?

 

Now this doesn't mean I'm going to be single forever, but what nature wants and what I want are against each other. This means it will be more difficult to find someone on the same page.

 

hmm, a lot of things you said makes sense. but I don't think it would necessarily be more difficult to find guys. For example I actually think these days there are more guys out there that want a girl who is sexually very experienced than not! an not all guys are exactly after "fit". Sure, most guys don't like fat girls, but if you are very slim or a bit thick or fit there would always be guys who will have hots for your body type.

[dragon lady]

hmm, a lot of things you said makes sense. but I don't think it would necessarily be more difficult to find guys. For example I actually think these days there are more guys out there that want a girl who is sexually very experienced than not! an not all guys are exactly after "fit". Sure, most guys don't like fat girls, but if you are very slim or a bit thick or fit there would always be guys who will have hots for your body type.

 

It's not more difficult to find them, but it's more difficult to keep them

My appearance is not among my biggest concerns because I don't look that bad. It could be better, but it's not horrifying. My lack of wanting to reproduce apparently is. My last two boyfriends had serious problems with it and I've yet to meet another guy who doesn't want kids. I know they are out there, but they are not commonplace.

[diabolik]

For example I actually think these days there are more guys out there that want a girl who is sexually very experienced than not! an not all guys are exactly after "fit". Sure, most guys don't like fat girls, but if you are very slim or a bit thick or fit there would always be guys who will have hots for your body type.

I agree with this.

 

Sexual experience is not a negative from the perspective of the attraction theories so long as the guy perceives that you will not cheat on him. In today's society, men who marry virgins probably worry that she will want to see what else is out there.

 

In terms of physical preferences, there is a spectrum of tastes among men. Sure, most women won't be able to appeal to as many men on a physical level as Ms. America, but you will still appeal to many men. We know for sure that some guys prefer more curves than others, some prefer more stick skinny than others, etc.

 

And in today's society, there are plenty of men who don't want children, so they are not going to be very attracted to women who are dying to have children. Sure, if everyone was like that, the species would die out, but the same could be said of homosexuality, and we know that homosexuals find life partners.

 

Don't confuse being attractive to the largest number of men with being attractive to many men (i.e., more men than you could ever hope to meet in a lifetime).