Guys with hang ups on overweight girls.

[rocio]

*Normally something you can do...

We don't know the human body well enough to say everyone can maintain a healthy weight. There is no arguing that. It is what it is.

 

But most people can. People with normal cases of health have the power to be whichever weight they choose.

 

Yeah, but that is a very small % of the population. Most people can control their weight to a large extent. Yes, some people will have it easier than others, but the others will just have to work harder.

 

Right. That's been established (see above). Let's not argue in circles.

[ghost69]

Not everyone can control their weight. Yes, they can have some control over it through diet and exercise. But there are certain medical conditions and/or medications that genuinely cause excessive weight gain.

 

fat pills? nothing adds fat to your body but eating improperly. your metabolism might slow down due to a medical problem or medication, yes, but it doesn't add fat to the body. adjust the diet then.

[velvette]

yeah, your body won't create fat out of thin air! the percentage of people who REALLY can't metabolize their food as to stay healthy and get the required amount of nutrients at the same time--is likely less than 1% of the population.

[viajera]

You countered with the 77/23 ratio as evidence that cultural factors -don't- have that much impact on the body weight (and I will extend this to general health, also presumably a function of genetic heredity) of any given population of people, an absurd contention that is disproven not by studies alone (which I'm too lazy to look up but are out there), but more telling, by the facts of human history, which in my book, trump any study.

 

Servedcold, I'm not in any way trying to claim that cultural effects do not influence weight, on either an individual or population level. Of course they do! For example, look at height - it's 90% hereditary, yet still height increases over time in any developing country as nutrition increases. I'm merely trying to counter those who insist it's 100% (or nearly so) cultural/environmental with no genetic influences.

 

Genetic history has nothing to do with the lowered incidence of child mortality, increased lifespan, the elimination of dread diseases such as smallpox and tuberculosis, increased height, the increase of cancer rates, the increase of heart disease, and the increase of obesity in the population at large. These are all, by and large, cultural developments.

 

I've never claimed a hereditary link between genes and the diseases you've listed above, nor have I seen any studies claiming this. I'm not following the connection here???

 

If you are seriously suggesting that a single study, peer-review process or no, has answered the nature/nurture debate, with all it's nuances, that has been wrestled over by the greatest minds of humanity for literally millennia, and that such study has attributed exact percentages to the effects of nature and nurture, I'm at a loss as to how to continue this conversation.

 

Absolutely not! But as a scientist (a biologist at that), I've had vast experience with people (scientists as well as lay people) who are quick to pick and choose what studies they want to believe or not believe based on their own experiences and viewpoints. Evolution and global climate changes are perfect high-profile examples of this. Amongst scientists, there is no debate about the existence of these phenomena (at most some debate about the details around the fringes), yet amongst the religious and amongst business people (respectively), there's a lot of "cherry-picking" of studies (sometimes "studies") they would prefer to believe. No individual study is an end-all, be-all - of course not! All I was trying to point out here is that you have to have valid justification for ruling a study invalid.

 

 

Incidentally, a study concluding that obese men were far less likely to marry or breed offspring appeared right here on the front page of ENA, within the last two weeks. But anyone with eyes in their head and common human experience already knew this. Same goes for obese women.

 

I hadn't seen this. Personally, I still see many paired obese people with children, but as I said earlier, the plural of anecdote is not data...

[viajera]

*Normally something you can do...

We don't know the human body well enough to say everyone can maintain a healthy weight. There is no arguing that. It is what it is.

 

But most people can. People with normal cases of health have the power to be whichever weight they choose.

 

^^ (much) shorter viajera...

 

This was my ultimate point in all my long-winded messages here. There is variation in the world. We don't know enough about the human body to say that X trait is universal. What works for one person does not work for all.

 

I just want people to stop judging others based on their own personal experience, because one person's personal experience is not necessarily universal. I'm a hippie at heart, what can I say? Why can't we all just get along and be respected for who we are?

 

I've never tried to (or at least never intended to) claim that every single obese person is that way due solely to genetics, and not due to their own actions. Many people do gain above their set point due to their eating and exercise habits. All I'm trying to say is there is some unknown x% of the population which has a set weight that is above the cultural norm, and without extreme efforts (e.g., 1000 cal/day or less diets, 2+ hours/day exercise) it is not possible for this x% to maintain a culturally-acceptable set weight, whether due to genes, illness (e.g., PCOS, numerous metabolic/thyroid disorders, etc.), medication (yes, there are drugs known to cause weight gain, e.g., many types of birth control, SSRIs, etc.), or other factors.

 

Anyway, I no longer have the time or energy to keep talking in circles and restating myself, so I am respectfully stepping out of this thread.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

and yes everyone can control their weight. if you have a genetic problem, eat better and exercise.

 

i have a close friend that always used the metabolism or thyroid excuse. he eats like crap is what it basically comes down.

 

I wasn't referring to metabolism or thyroid types of excuses. There are diseases and things we don't quite understand from a medical perspective. It's hard to say if everyone on earth can be "thin". Probability says no.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

Yeah, but that is a very small % of the population. Most people can control their weight to a large extent. Yes, some people will have it easier than others, but the others will just have to work harder.

 

I agree and I think she was saying that, too. Most people with weight problems can fix them, but as science and technology progress, we may find that many of these weight problems are caused by a different link that we know now. Maybe something that diet and exercise cannot help.

 

We know that stress is a HUGE cause of weight gain, but it is still fixable.

So if you cannot reduce stress you have to work verrry hard on diet and exercise. The thing is, most people cannot sustain a severely restrictive diet and exercise plan for long. It's not reasonable and the weight will come back.

 

That's where people change their expectations a bit. You have to work hard, but you still might not come out of it looking perfect.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

fat pills? nothing adds fat to your body but eating improperly. your metabolism might slow down due to a medical problem or medication, yes, but it doesn't add fat to the body. adjust the diet then.

 

I am with you and this argument more than it may appear, but in all fairness you are a person with more knowledge about exercise and diet than medicine.

 

On average, when a person begins a cycle of antidepressants they can gain anywhere from 5-35 pounds in one to three months without any changes to a diet and exercise plan. Numerous clinical trials have proven this with healthy individuals eating healthy diets.

 

Once the medicine is no longer taken, the weight begins to leave the body.

 

Metabolism and the processing of nutrients and fats in the body are controlled by hormones and signals from neurotransmitters. Many medicines are used to change the processes of these things, that's why we see so many changes in weight due to pills.

 

It does happen and it's incredibly hard to reverse while one is taking the meds. And when a person is taking a medication due to a physical illness, rigorous exercise may not be advised.

 

 

I find it interesting.

[diabolik]

I wasn't referring to metabolism or thyroid types of excuses. There are diseases and things we don't quite understand from a medical perspective. It's hard to say if everyone on earth can be "thin". Probability says no.

I think it's fair to say that a small % of the population has medical conditions that make weight control abnormally difficult.

 

I think the fit folks start rolling their eyes when they see a very large % of the obese and overweight claim to have such a condition.

 

My issue with viajera was her unwillingness to acknowledge the increase in obesity in recent decades (probably b/c it undermines her premise about the genetic influence), and her fallacious argument about the non-comparability of BMI data over time.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

I think it's fair to say that a small % of the population has medical conditions that make weight control abnormally difficult.

 

I think the fit folks start rolling their eyes when they see a very large % of the obese and overweight claim to have such a condition.

 

My issue with viajera was her unwillingness to acknowledge the increase in obesity in recent decades (probably b/c it undermines her premise about the genetic influence), and her fallacious argument about the non-comparability of BMI data over time.

 

I always sort of play devil's advocate but I'm reasonable. lol

 

There is no doubt most people who are obese are obese because they do not eat right or exercise. And it's their choice just like it's someone else's choice to want to date them or not, really.

 

I am extremely interested in the body and have found out a lot over time.

 

My dad is trained as a nutritionist and had been a body builder for years until an injury, so I know the points of the arguments from fit members.

 

My thing is neurology. I believe some (meaning a miniscule portion of the population) people don't have it in their brains to stay trim. Others struggle because they are not educated about what is sabotaging them. (Blood sugar, stress, medication, starvation instead of healthy food, etc.)

[ghost69]

I agree and I think she was saying that, too. Most people with weight problems can fix them, but as science and technology progress, we may find that many of these weight problems are caused by a different link that we know now. Maybe something that diet and exercise cannot help.

 

We know that stress is a HUGE cause of weight gain, but it is still fixable.

So if you cannot reduce stress you have to work verrry hard on diet and exercise. The thing is, most people cannot sustain a severely restrictive diet and exercise plan for long. It's not reasonable and the weight will come back.

 

That's where people change their expectations a bit. You have to work hard, but you still might not come out of it looking perfect.

 

I am with you and this argument more than it may appear, but in all fairness you are a person with more knowledge about exercise and diet than medicine.

 

On average, when a person begins a cycle of antidepressants they can gain anywhere from 5-35 pounds in one to three months without any changes to a diet and exercise plan. Numerous clinical trials have proven this with healthy individuals eating healthy diets.

 

Once the medicine is no longer taken, the weight begins to leave the body.

 

Metabolism and the processing of nutrients and fats in the body are controlled by hormones and signals from neurotransmitters. Many medicines are used to change the processes of these things, that's why we see so many changes in weight due to pills.

 

It does happen and it's incredibly hard to reverse while one is taking the meds. And when a person is taking a medication due to a physical illness, rigorous exercise may not be advised.

 

 

I find it interesting.

 

a little contradictory don't you think? like i said, if those meds change the way your body reacts to food, ie. attaching to fat stores easier and holding onto more weight, whether it be fat, food, whatever, you CAN still do something about it. it's not a pill that causes the gain directly.

 

medically, we do understand this.

 

and yes, i don't know much medically about medicine, but blaming a pill when you can still do something about it is an excuse to me. just like the girl that says 'well i just had a baby.' your kid is like 3 years old. lol stuff like that. if someone really has a problem with their weight gain, get motivated and do something about it. pity party is over.

[Applewhite]

People who are of a healthy weight are more attractive. I'm not saying thin, because that's not attractive or healthy either.

Taking care of one's health is a sign that the person has self respect and values the gift of their body and what it can do.

 

A stone is 14 pounds - so someone who weighs 2 or 3 stone over ideal weight is 24 or 36 pounds. That's a fair bit. It can certainly be lost though through good eating, exercise and self discipline.

 

How about just 1 stone then

[velvette]

there is no magical weight to be attractive at. only generalities. it's not like, oh, she weighs 141, no deal. but 140.6 and under is ok!

 

just as it is with hair length, and whatnot. individual preferences all around.

not being overweight at all would be ideal for most people. but some (less, but still out there) LIKE really fat obese people, so eh.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

a little contradictory don't you think? like i said, if those meds change the way your body reacts to food, ie. attaching to fat stores easier and holding onto more weight, whether it be fat, food, whatever, you CAN still do something about it. it's not a pill that causes the gain directly.

 

medically, we do understand this.

 

and yes, i don't know much medically about medicine, but blaming a pill when you can still do something about it is an excuse to me. just like the girl that says 'well i just had a baby.' your kid is like 3 years old. lol stuff like that. if someone really has a problem with their weight gain, get motivated and do something about it. pity party is over.

 

I don't see how it's not the pill that causes the weight gain... if someone eating a healthy diet with an solid exercise plan takes an antidepressant and gains weight, what should they do further? Eat healthy and exercise..?

 

 

I realize no one likes excuses. Way too many people rely on excuses to get them by without taking responsibility.

 

..But sometimes there are excuses.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

there is no magical weight to be attractive at. only generalities. it's not like, oh, she weighs 141, no deal. but 140.6 and under is ok!

 

just as it is with hair length, and whatnot. individual preferences all around.

not being overweight at all would be ideal for most people. but some (less, but still out there) LIKE really fat obese people, so eh.

 

And? Who the hell cares? lol

I only get concerned when their fetish is for animals, dead people or children. They can't consent.

[velvette]

what? I'm not sure if you're agreeing or picking on some detail I missed. I just meant there's no absolutely universal ideal.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

what? I'm not sure if you're agreeing or picking on some detail I missed. I just meant there's no absolutely universal ideal.

 

I'm just goofing on how serious people are taking weight and personal preferences. My quote on preference is floating around eNA somewhere.

"It's ok to be attracted to all sorts of legal things."

 

 

[ghost69]

I don't see how it's not the pill that causes the weight gain... if someone eating a healthy diet with an solid exercise plan takes an antidepressant and gains weight, what should they do further? Eat healthy and exercise..?

 

 

I realize no one likes excuses. Way too many people rely on excuses to get them by without taking responsibility.

 

..But sometimes there are excuses.

 

eat even more healthy. mostly, adverse affects of medicine is water weight.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

eat even more healthy. mostly, adverse affects of medicine is water weight.

 

It can be. For me, I had to give the medicine up. So I'm depressed and suicidal but I couldn't keep putting on weight. It wasn't worth it.

 

I do cardio/dancing and small weight lifting 5-6 times per week for 30-60 minutes each time. My diet is all raw veggies, fruit, tuna and chicken breast. I enjoy this lifestyle so I stick with it. I know I have to be healthier than I was before when I didn't try. I'm lucky that I like exercise and healthy food.

 

But in doing this, I have gained 10 lbs in two months.

It's a slap in the face but what can you do?

 

Maybe you would think I'm gross to look at but I know I am healthier than some skinny girls who smoke, drink and eat fries all day. lol

[diabolik]

I do cardio/dancing and small weight lifting 5-6 times per week for 30-60 minutes each time. My diet is all raw veggies, fruit, tuna and chicken breast. I enjoy this lifestyle so I stick with it. I know I have to be healthier than I was before when I didn't try. I'm lucky that I like exercise and healthy food.

Surely you eat carbs? Or are you doing an Atkins-style diet?

 

What do you mean by small weight lifting? Light weights and high reps? Why not heavier weights?

[ghost69]

^^^you probably gained 10 lbs of muscle, not fat. don't always think the scale means you are healthy.

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

^^^you probably gained 10 lbs of muscle, not fat. don't always think the scale means you are healthy.

 

I considered that, because muscle burns fat and obviously weighs more. First though, I would lose some fat weight before gaining muscle weight.

But I haven't noticed my clothes being looser so I feel that it just isn't working out right.

[Applewhite]

^^^ But that is just not possible. You must be eating something that is wrong. Unless you are still getting taller???

[IphigeniaSaysHi]

Surely you eat carbs? Or are you doing an Atkins-style diet?

 

What do you mean by small weight lifting? Light weights and high reps? Why not heavier weights?

 

I try to limit carbs to a serving of whole wheat crackers with some low fat cheese, which sucks because I am hypoglycemic and I literally pass out and conk my head on a table when I don't eat carbs.

 

I don't try to lift 100lb weights, is what I mean. I will do reps with 20 lb hand weights or dance/jump on a trampoline with 10lbs ones.

[ghost69]

I considered that, because muscle burns fat and obviously weighs more. First though, I would lose some fat weight before gaining muscle weight.

But I haven't noticed my clothes being looser so I feel that it just isn't working out right.

 

your figure might not be capable of getting smaller. where are you trying to become looser in clothing? waistline?