Why do people let themselves get out of shape in a relationship?

[Honey Pumpkin]

I am not defending the OP. I don't know him.

 

I am just surprised how in one thread personal preference is totally fine and in another thread it is very bad.

 

You say you don't care at all who he goes out with but your posts do not sound like it. It looks like you are concerned.

 

No, I think that his twenty plus pages of telling married women that they should be less lazy and lose weight is NOT about a dating preference! These women are not who he would go out with. They are not available to him in the first place!

 

Okay, I'm done with this thread, Grymoire.

[Seraphim]

Grymoire, I am NOT available to be JUDGED by what the OP thinks is HIS standard. As Honey Pumpkin said, we are not part of the group he is going to be picking a spouse from. So he has no right to judge any married woman.

 

If you do not understand what a preference is perhaps refer to a dictionary.

[grymoire]

Okay, I'm done with this thread, Grymoire.

 

haha... don't get angry HP.. this is not even my thread

[WhatThe]

Have you been to marriage counselling? What was the outcome of that? Or family mediation? How did that work out for both of you?

 

I just sense that you're very negative (and unhappy), but reluctant to do anything about it because you want money more. Presumably this is for the children, the money? Talk to a lawyer about alimony - I'm unsure I believe you that it's 30% for the rest of your life, to be honest. Usually it would be until the children are of age, which is fair and reasonable. Which state are you in?

 

Colorado. Any marriage longer than 20 years is subject to lifetime alimony. The formula for the initial maintenance is 40% of the higher income minus 50% of the lower, but this can be, and often is adjusted by the judge for the permanent award. My wife stayed home with the kids until they were in middle school, then decided to take a series of minimum wage, part-time jobs, despite the fact that she graduated Cum Laude from a good school and at one time made way more money than I did.

 

I was told by my lawyer that until the kids were off child support that I would be paying 50% of my income in CS and alimony, and that the alimony would be lifetime unless I got a sweet judge. I have no problem with child support, but lifetime alimony of 30% and even sometimes 40%, which is very commonly awarded in marriages of over 20 years in Colorado, should be illegal. Not only does it keep bad marriages together, it causes people who are receiving the alimony to shack with partners instead of getting married. If you are receiving alimony and you get married, the alimony ends. Why would anyone receiving a guaranteed $2000 or more a month for life ever get married, if getting married meant losing the income? These are able bodied, educated, employable people collecting thousands a month for life, just because the marriage ended. And this is a 'no fault' state! By the way, there are women in the same boat. It is not all that uncommon for a woman to outearn a man these days, and hundreds of thousands of women now pay alimony to able bodied, employed ex-husbands. I know of two myself.

 

So again, choose your spouse wisely, and if you are the higher earner, and your spouse starts showing signs of addiction or or issues, divorce ASAP, because every year you stay is another step toward a lifetime of indentured servitude.

[Honey Pumpkin]

haha... don't get angry HP.. this is not even my thread

 

Can't be bothered. I thought I was being quite clear in my posts - and this is not even in a dating thread.

 

However, if the OP does come back, I will be fascinated to find out his height/weight stats - I am obviously imagining a total adonis, to be honest, because who on earth else would post something like this, lol

[grymoire]

Can't be bothered. I thought I was being quite clear in my posts - and this is not even in a dating thread.

 

However, if the OP does come back, I will be fascinated to find out his height/weight stats - I am obviously imagining a total adonis, to be honest, because who on earth else would post something like this, lol

 

i am 5'7" by the way.. and i admit i am a tad over-weight

[Honey Pumpkin]

Aren't you paying that much anyway though? I still think it's the most toxic thing I have ever heard, and I pity you both.

 

What about living separated? Just living apart for a while, so you can think about what next.

 

Could you not try mediation with your wife? Personally I would not be content to live like this, I think the dislike and contempt with which you speak about your wife is horrendous for BOTH of you, it must be a nightmare.

[grymoire]

Aren't you paying that much anyway though? I still think it's the most toxic thing I have ever heard, and I pity you both.

 

What about living separated? Just living apart for a while, so you can think about what next.

 

Could you not try mediation with your wife? Personally I would not be content to live like this, I think the dislike and contempt with which you speak about your wife is horrendous for BOTH of you, it must be a nightmare.

 

HP, my friend that works for Microsoft in Seattle is about to get divorced. He got married in Nov 2007. His wife (arranged marriage) asked for divorce the very next month. For the whole of 2008 he tried to work things out but nothing changed. She never changed her mind. He has finally filed the papers and is looking at a loss of 40k.

 

They are living separately now.

[Honey Pumpkin]

HP, my friend that works for Microsoft in Seattle is about to get divorced. He got married in Nov 2007. His wife (arranged marriage) asked for divorce the very next month. For the whole of 2008 he tried to work things out but nothing changed. She never changed her mind. He has finally filed the papers and is looking at a loss of 40k.

 

They are living separately now.

 

Well, I guess that's how the court decided their assets should be split, right? And if they have children, I guess that would be included. I don't know, I don't believe in marriage I have to say.

[grymoire]

Well, I guess that's how the court decided their assets should be split, right? And if they have children, I guess that would be included. I don't know, I don't believe in marriage I have to say.

 

Nope. She did not share his mortgage at all. Not even one single payment. And they did not buy any assets together either.

 

He is still looking at 40k loss....

 

He is now banging his head for trusting her and not doing the pre-nuptial agreements... Marriage is pretty much like business these days.

[laisla]

HP, my friend that works for Microsoft in Seattle is about to get divorced. He got married in Nov 2007. His wife (arranged marriage) asked for divorce the very next month. For the whole of 2008 he tried to work things out but nothing changed. She never changed her mind. He has finally filed the papers and is looking at a loss of 40k.

 

They are living separately now.

 

wow that sucks. i'm planning to have a (religious) prenup. my sister asked for a HOUSE in her name worth at least $350k, for her marriage contract. well she did marry a guy from overseas so it should protect her in case all he wants is citizenship (i doubt it). it happened to my cousin where the guy was sponsored then he became an aye-hole in a couple of weeks and deserted her.

[rocio]

I have read all of your posts. However, you clearly did not read, or at least failed to grasp, mine.

 

You cannot change her. The only thing you have control over in this situation is yourself - your thoughts and actions. So let's stop playing victim, okay? Let's take control of this situation. I get that you have reason to be angry. I would be very angry as well. However, that anger has caused you to make poor decisions. From your tone and words on this thread, your response to your wife is very clear. Whether you make these kinds of rude comments out loud, or simply think them, they ARE being communicated to your wife. And rather than helping her, you are pushing her down.

 

You wrote down these six above points in a very organized fashion but failed to address the key point of my post to you.

 

What is most imteresting is this:

 

You have a lot in common with your wife. You both have a problem that you refuse to do anything about. It's excuse after excuse, but no real effort toward change. Have you noticed that?

 

I would rather live alone in a 1 bedroom apartment than in a castle with someone I despised. Your children also must be miserable to be caught up in the mess.

 

And yet, all you want to do is wine about how you got screwed over so bad. Sound familiar? If you want change, then make it happen - one way or the other.

[WhatThe]

 

I would rather live alone in a 1 bedroom apartment than in a castle with someone I despised. Your children also must be miserable to be caught up in the mess.

 

And yet, all you want to do is wine about how you got screwed over so bad. Sound familiar? If you want change, then make it happen - one way or the other.

 

 

People don't seem to grasp the reality of lifetime alimony.

 

I would be thrilled to live in a one bedroom apartment rather than the beautiful house we built together, IF it meant I could have control over my life from that point forward. The reality is that once you are ordered by the court to pay lifetime alimony, it is an OBLIGATION for THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. You cannot ever change jobs to one with lower pay, you cannot ever retire. You are subject to being dragged into court over and over, and you must hire a lawyer each and every time. If you bust your a-s-s to get a promotion, your ex has every right to file with the court to get 30% of your increase in pay, but if you lose your job and can't make the alimony, it is very rare that the court will lower your obligation. They will order you to get two or three jobs, sell assets, cash in 401K's and do everything possible to continue the payments, until you are completely indigent, at which point they will throw you in jail.

 

Furthermore, there is NO WAY to buy your way out of lifetime alimony. I could offer every single asset in the marriage except the shirt on my back, and it would not be accepted by the court, because there is no cap on lifetime alimony.

 

To add insult to injury, the court normally orders that the person paying the alimony carry, at their expense, a large life insurance policy to pay off the ex in case of death. By the time you are in your 70's, this will be an expense of several hundred dollars a month in addition to the alimony.

 

Now do you understand?

[rocio]

Yes, I understand fully well. You don't want to make tough choices and neither does your wife. As a consequence, you have given up on yourselves and each other, and leave it up to your children to sort through the mess.

 

Garbage in, garbage on.

[grymoire]

Oh dear... this post makes me very depressed...... why do people even have to get married if they can end up being so cruel to each other? and why the courts have to be so inhuman?

 

No wonder many people do not wish to get married..

[diabolik]

My, my, I leave for a little bit and there’s a hate party going on in my honor.

 

There has been quite a lot of attribution of statements to me that are inaccurate. I’ll respond to some of them below, but I would ask that you ask yourself why it is you misinterpret what I’ve said.

 

My circumstances dictate that I cannot equally prioritize everything that is important to me. So I have to choose. I wish I didn't, but I do. Regardless, you insist on twisting 'priorities' around to suggest that it means we don't care about fitness and use the time restrictions imposed on our lives as lame 'excuses'. No point confusing you with facts - such as the detailed daily schedule I've already offered, you've already made up your mind.

OK, so we agree it is a matter of prioritization. And you feel that you cannot find time for fitness because of your priorities and resulting busy schedule, but you don't wish to be characterized as having de-prioritized fitness. Yes, under the circumstances you have described, I call that an excuse. Let us agree to disagree on this point.

 

Again, you grossly overestimate the caloric burn in "exercise" inherent in daily chores and child minding. The only thing that remotely resembles exercise, like one gets at the gym, is running around playing with kids. I have never and would never consider hauling a load of laundry up two flights of stairs to be exercise- to do so would be folly.

Playing with kids, doing household chores all burn calories. Does it burn calories at the same rate as working out on a treadmill or exercise bike? Of course not. Does it beat spending 24 hours in a bed or on a couch. Of course it does. As women on this thread have noted, they have managed to lose weight simply by controlling their diet. You seem to believe this is not possible. I disagree. Again, let’s agree to disagree on this point.

 

It is more of an incremental than a conscious decision. Just as one loses weight through a series of individual choices (I'll pass on dessert, thanks"), one gains weight in the same manner. When we buy new clothes, we buy what fits, thinking (oh- these are sized a bit small). It's easy to dismiss a few pounds, and then get used to them, only dismiss another few months or years later. But again, you choose to say we make a conscious decision to be fat.

 

You must have a lot of time to think. Personally, even when I get on a scale and the number fluctuates, I think "Hmm, I'm up/down 2 lbs ", then *poof* the thought is gone as I turn my attention to my morning 'to-do list. Of course, you'll assume that means I WANT to be fat, because I don't contemplate what that two pounds means- Am I getting my period? Did I eat too much salt? Have I been 'stuffing my face' as Whatthe so eloquently put it. How many calories did I burn yesterday folding laundry? How many calories were in my takeout salad? Were they hiding in the dressing? How many times did I carry my baby upstairs? How much does he weigh now. Well, that must have been at least 30 extra calories burned....

 

It's preposterous.

What is preposterous is to say that 50 extra pounds sneaked up on someone without them realizing it. And your creating strawman arguments that daily or weekly weight fluctuation (which of course can be attributable to many things besides real trending weight gain/loss) doesn’t obviate the fact that over longer periods of time (1, 2, 3, 12 months) the gain is obvious, and doesn’t require much mental arithmetic or contemplation to deduce.

 

Priorities dont typically dramatically alter overnight- with the obvious exception of becoming a parent. Nor do you often realize at the time (ie. when I made the decision to go back to school), how adding a new priority is going impact the other elements of your life.

I will never disagree that an open dialogue with ones spouse is important. But you seem to think people consciously CHOOSE to DE-Prioritize something. The truth is, new priorities emerge and push others down the list. 'Evolve' means to change slowly, almost, if not fully imperceptibly. You are not understanding that.

I take your point that priorities can evolve almost imperceptibly. But surely people periodically observe the results of their prioritization and reassess priorities. After all, that’s how/why we change priorities.

 

Again, you assume that parenting is a cardiovascular activity. It's a joke. And the grilled salmon and asparagus I had for dinner last night- SOOOOOOO fattening.

Again, you seem to think that dieting in combination with a busy mother’s schedule (even in the absence of dedicated gym time) won’t have an effect, a point on which we wholeheartedly disagree. Not sure what the point of the salmon/asparagus comment is. If that is reflective of how healthy your entire diet is, and assuming portion control, you would be at a weight you are happy with, or well on your way.

 

But we know how this ends, don’t we? You will tell me that this is reflective of your diet, but the weight isn’t coming off. And I will point to the first law of thermodynamics. And you will accuse me of talking down to you.

 

OK, moving on.

 

Actually, there are several mothers in this thread who work out regularily and stay in excellent shape. We're just a little more understanding of the unique experiences that other mothers face.

Amber, that is excellent, and provides me with yet more hope!

 

My 57 year old sister has not worked out a day in her life, yet she weighs 110lb. She maintains her weight by eating correctly.

 

There is NO excuse for being fat. It is caused by gluttony and being indifferent to what you put in your mouth. You can whine all you want about not having time to exercise, but exercise is not a requirement to maintain a healthy weight. Eating amounts of good food that match your caloric burn are ALL that is necessary.

 

I'll give you an example. I drink 2-3 cups of coffee a day. I used to put one teaspoon of sugar in my coffee about 2/3 of the time. I started slowly gaining weight, despite eating well and exercising. Guess what? A teaspoon of sugar is 15 calories. Over the course of a year, that is about 11,000 extra calories taken in. Three pounds. If you do that for ten years, you will be thirty pounds overweight. Most people don't THINK about what they are eating, and eventually, it catches up with them. That is when all the excuses about metabolism, heredity, hormones and everything else start kicking in. No. You are EATING too much. Period.

Excellent point. While I think avoiding exercise is suboptimal, the fact that she has managed to maintain her weight using only diet and the caloric burn of daily activities, is instructive.

 

As I said, I wondered what your own height/weight stats were, because you started a thread - a long thread - about ideal weight stats.

This is not a thread about ideal stats. It is about why some people allow themselves to get out of shape once they are in a long-term relationship/marriage.

 

I'll say it again. If you marry someone, and they start having unhealthy habits, get on the problem IMMEDIATELY. Give them a reasonable amount of time to get back to reality, and if they refuse, DIVORCE THEM. What I am stuck with is not worth it for anyone.

A cautionary tale. And one I shall remember. Thank you for sharing it.

 

Because he is telling us how we should look or expect to have our butts divorced. I am not disputing his preference but to say........"hey how is it most married women end up being a fat a$$?", that is something else. That is not a preference,THAT is an insult. I would argue that whether I was a blimp or a rake. Yes, then add insult to injury by saying I am disprespectful to my family because I am not excersing in a gym 5 times a week. If you have a preference cool, I could care less, but do not tell me how to live MY life with MY family AND call me a fat a$$ albiet indirectly when you know nothing about me. When a whole group of people on a thread are outraged it is usually for a reason. I think it is cause we recognize passive aggressive arguing and veiled insults when we see them.

Where did I say "hey how is it most married women end up being a fat a$$?"?

 

I never told you how to live your life, and I never said you are disrespecting your family (assuming your partner is ok with the way you are taking care of yourself).

 

It then tickled me that when I asked the OP outright what his stats were, he got very very coy and denied it was relevant. After twenty plus PAGES of talking about what a woman should weigh, how it's easy to lose weight etc etc. I am curious about this, and I have my own private thoughts about what's the reason.

Where in these twenty plus pages did I say what a woman should weigh? Where did I say it was “easy” to lose weight?

 

Please also note that I haven't addressed the question to anyone else, just to the OP, who is very hyper-focused on weight issues for women, and what he considers to be 'acceptable'.

 

It's also not a dating preference. He is criticising married women for some reason, who are NOT available to him in any case. So it's not quite the same thing. Of course it's his choice to marry a woman as thin as he wants, and to divorce her if she balloons up after marriage. Good luck to him!

Yes HP, I have a preference for in shape women. I would even say it's biologically hard-wired, but that's a discussion for a different thread - and if you start one on that, I'll be glad to chime in.

 

I am not criticizing anyone who chooses to be overweight for their choice.

 

What I have and will criticize are people who are unhappy with their weight and complain that there is nothing they can do about it because they are too busy or because they have to eat with their families.

 

I do remain curious about his stats, given his stated preference for a toned, fit woman, and thinking there is no excuse for being anything less than 'perfect'.

Suffice it to say that the type of women I prefer would likely have no interest in me if I were out of shape.

 

We TOLD you, he is telling US we HAVE to be this way or we are disrespecting fat bags, THAT is not an opinion on how he wants to live HIS life, it is an opinion on how he wants us to life OUR life.

Again, you are misinterpreting my statements. Please review the above.

[Seraphim]

OK, but why do YOU give a crap about what some married woman looks like whether she complains about it or not? She is not married to YOU.

[WhatThe]

Yes, I understand fully well. You don't want to make tough choices and neither does your wife. As a consequence, you have given up on yourselves and each other, and leave it up to your children to sort through the mess.

 

Garbage in, garbage on.

 

The law has locked us into an unconscionable situation. If we lived in Texas or Illinois, where the laws were changed for just this situation (Texas limits alimony to three years, Illinois to five), we would be divorced. Or, if she would accept 10 or 15 years of alimony instead of demanding lifetime, we be divorced.

 

Take a look at the remarriage rate in Colorado vs. Texas or Illinois. Older people here shack up more often than the younger people. Alimony is the reason. My lawyer said 30% of the single women and 10% of the single men in CO over 40 are receiving alimony. It is a giant gravy train, and the legal profession feeds on it like sharks.

 

Remember, CO is a "no fault" state. Anyone can initiate a divorce at any time against their partner for any reason, and the divorce cannot be stopped. Fault is not allowed to be a consideration in the division of assets or awarding of alimony. Anyone who has been married more than 20 years who makes more money than their spouse is at risk for being sentenced to indentured servitude for no crime whatsoever. You could be the best husband or wife in the universe, but if your lower-earning spouse decides they want a free income for life, all they have to do is hire a lawyer, and they don't even have to pay their own legal fees sometimes. They can ask for that in the judgment, too, and they will probably be awarded them.

 

And people wonder why fewer people marry every year. I would never marry again, knowing what the laws are.

[annie24]

WhatThe - maybe you can talk to an attorney who can give you different options? find out what you can do, if there is some way you can avoid paying alimony the rest of your life.... do you think your wife would insist on that?

[Circe]

If she would accept reasonable alimony with a concrete end date, I would divorce her. 30% of my income for the rest of my life is not reasonable.

 

Well, given that you married her, promising till death do you part, Promising for better or for worse - not "until you become obese" - it is reasonable. And it looks like the legislators and the majority of the voting population of your State agree.

 

What's the difference between you and a young woman who marries a 90 year old millionaire for his money? You're both staying married for money.

 

My mum does the same as your wife by the way so I understand how confusing it is. She insists she eats a certain amount of food which I know has to be a huge amount less than what she actually eats. I know its not genetics with her or physical illness because when I forced her to do weight watchers it worked. I don't understand how or why my mum would lie to me about this but she does. I can only imagine that it has something to do with feeling ashamed and also, resisting change.

 

I'm not saying that you should stay married because it would be enormously judgmental of me to say what you should do given that I don't live in your shoes -but it's hard to feel sympathetic when you site 30% alimony as your excuse.

 

That's what all men in this country pay by way of child support alone when they get divorced. I realise there's an end to that and apparently no end to your alimony payments but if all those divorced men in this country with children can put up with living on just 70% of their income for 10-15 years then perhaps it's not that disabilitating.

[diabolik]

OK, but why do YOU give a crap about what some married woman looks like whether she complains about it or not? She is not married to YOU.

If a woman, man, child, married, single, divorced, widowed, whatever, is unhappy they are overweight and complains there is nothing that can be done, I care enough to respond, because I believe that something can be done in all but the rare circumstances.

 

Anyway, we could go on about this aspect and the obesity epidemic and what not, but that's way off topic for this thread.

[Circe]

You cannot ever change jobs to one with lower pay, you cannot ever retire.

 

That's not true - there's a restriction on changing jobs with a lower pay in order to prevent you from spiting your wife. There's a restriction on retiring well before normal reitrement age for the same reason.

 

If you lose your job because of a huge recession or some other reasonable reason or retire at a normal age that's not a problem.

 

So unless you're going to point to the particular section of whatever statute says otherwise I think you should stop making this claim.

[diabolik]

I didn't realize the divorce laws in CO were so draconian. What a perverse set of incentives these laws provide.

[Seraphim]

If a woman, man, child, married, single, divorced, widowed, whatever, is unhappy they are overweight and complains there is nothing that can be done, I care enough to respond, because I believe that something can be done in all but the rare circumstances.

 

Anyway, we could go on about this aspect and the obesity epidemic and what not, but that's way off topic for this thread.

 

OK, but you are not coming accross as caring in the least.

[diabolik]

OK, but you are not coming accross as caring in the least.

I'm a "tough love" kinda guy.