If cheating is wrong, why are there no laws against it?

[Seraphim]

Also the courts and law makers are busy with murders and rapes and robberies and kidnappings and child abuse...........I could go on forever.

[MinziGirl]

Because the state doesn't want to get involved in the (private) choices of her citizens?

[BusyNAbroad]

You are exceedingly stubborn when it comes to these matters, Busy.

You have an exceeding bias (not just in this specific discussion) to view my ideas as personal insults. They aren't. As I said in another thread, when I talk about something that seems different from the opinion of the majority, I do so for the sake of analysing and sharing different viewpoints and ways of living the world. In this discussion, I am simply expressing my confusion about how come there are so many ways a person can be legally punished for dealing emotional pain, and yet will not get any compensation if such emotional pain is inflicted through cheating... and I mean emotional pain as in the way you defined it.

Emotional pain from verbal abuse is punished. Emotional abuse for feeling stalked (where burden of proof falls on the stalker) can be punished. And there's an infinite list.

 

I understand that in practice, it may be hard to prove feelings and to prove how much damage has done, but I am simply expressing my feeling that there is huge unfairness in all this.

 

broken34 expressed correctly what exactly I feel unfair about usually not the cheating itself..but the backhanded behaviour, the dishonesty to partners, the blatant disrespecting that comes when cheaters do not want to own up to what they did to their partners."

 

Don't you think the emotional pain that can be caused by this kind of a breech of trust is much more severe than a kid insulting you on the road?

Just wondering, maybe you think differently, so it's not a rhethorical question.

[BusyNAbroad]

If this rejection feels so intense that you think it should be a crime and that she needs punishment in a court of law for it, then that really means that you are losing perspective about this and need counseling to help you deal with this rejection.

 

lavenderlove, I appreciate your concern.

 

As I mentioned before (to someone else) I am way past the emotional pain and have gotten over with this specific girl. But I can imagine that this kind of nuisance in human relationships can happen again in future - not only to me - and when I think about it (let me use broken34s' words again, "its usually not the cheating itself..but the backhanded behaviour, the dishonesty to partners, the blatant disrespecting that comes when cheaters do not want to own up to what they did to their partners.") it is one of the reasons why I am now getting more and more reluctant to pursue intimate/romantic relationships.

 

My unhappiness is currently not specifically directed at the people who hurt me but towards the fact that this behavior continues to exist in society, a behavior that, in my opinion, could be changed if people were more conscious of it. And, well, one of my ideas is that law does make people think before they act. I stated my own situation 3-4 months ago as an example for this: if there had been no law against libel/slander, I would have publicly divulged what that girl and that policitian did. In my country of residence (Italy) I would be punished, probably even jailed, if I did that.

 

I am over that girl, but I don't feel very happy about the fact that cheating exists and people would do anything to allow it and even justify it.

 

This is a matter of philosophical opinion, nothing that can be dealt with by counselors. I work and study in psychology so I am surrounded by these guys

[BusyNAbroad]

Even if cheating is wrong, you can't ever prevent it from happening. You are supposed to be free to love anyone you like. You have free will. I think biologically we still have to figure out if human beings are in essence monogamous creatures. I believe we are not really..but it is the strength of will power and believe in the love you share that will keep you from cheating. Seduction is everywhere and anyone can fall prey to it...anyone.

Biologically, we also have to figure out whether humans have anything such as a "free will". In fact, if you open the brain you'll find hundreds of biochemical triggers that determine all behavior. We still don't know which buttons determine which specific behavior, but we know that nearly all behavior originates there, and that's the reason we can fall prey to seduction and other instincts.

Anyway, free will vs determinism is a totally different story...

 

As a student of psychology (including evolutionary psychology) I can tell that the human brain makes the human being to adapt to any kind of behavior that is enforced by the individuals' beliefs, so the individual can tend to become either monogamous or polyamorous depending on which society, which cultural background and which period of history the person is born into and grows up in. If beliefs and cultural attitudes change (especially in the "in-group" or main social group of the individual), so can also the behavior of the individual. It's an interaction of nature AND nurture.

 

The process is best visualized by this graph (translated into English by me, from our psychology textbook):

link removed

 

Consequently, I think that if there was a stricter penalization of cheating attitudes in our society/culture, also cheating may diminish. There's no proof of this. It's just a hypothesis.

 

its usually not the cheating itself..but the backhanded behaviour, the dishonesty to partners, the blatant disrespecting that comes when cheaters do not want to own up to what they did to their partners.

This is the reason I feel there should be some kind of punishment.

[rocio]

There are parts of the world where a woman will be imprisoned or even murdered for cheating on her husband.

 

You're free to move there.

[Seraphim]

The other thing is WHO is paying these court costs???

[BusyNAbroad]

There are parts of the world where a woman will be imprisoned or even murdered for cheating on her husband.

 

You're free to move there.

 

I won't move there because most of those countries have laws that are even more unfairer than those that exist here. In this case especially, a man who cheats his wife will receive no punishment at all, whereas the woman will.

 

You seriously think I am that chauvinistic?

[Seraphim]

But would you be willing to pay for the cost to have that punishment extracted?

[ResonanceTheory]

You have an exceeding bias (not just in this specific discussion) to view my ideas as personal insults.

 

I have a bias against people who ask questions, get reasonable answers, then ignore those answers and pursue the same line of questioning. People have told you WHY you can't legislate fidelity. I refuse to recapitulate those here--I trust the "back" button on your browser works well enough.

 

Emotional pain from verbal abuse is punished. Emotional abuse for feeling stalked (where burden of proof falls on the stalker) can be punished. And there's an infinite list.

 

Not really. I cannot think of one person who has ever been arrested for verbal abuse. Children can be taken away from their parents for emotional neglect, but this is because it hinders the mental and emotional development of the child. Adults, however, are expected to be mature and in control of their own feelings. If someone is saying something that hurts your feelings or upsets you--you walk away. You don't call the police and have them arrested. The cops would probably take YOU to jail or fine you for making an unnecessary emergency call. The only verbal abuse that is of concern to police officers is threats of physical violence or murder.

 

I understand that in practice, it may be hard to prove feelings and to prove how much damage has done, but I am simply expressing my feeling that there is huge unfairness in all this.

 

Here, it sounds like you are saying : " I know it is not possible to legislate this but I am going to keep complaining about it because I can't get over the fact that I have been hurt and may, possibly, be hurt again in the future".

 

I feel for you, I do. It is hard to see how you could ever trust again after someone has been unfaithful to you, but unfortunately, we all must make that leap of faith and continue to trust in humanity--even in spite of what we have experienced in the past.

 

Don't you think the emotional pain that can be caused by this kind of a breech of trust is much more severe than a kid insulting you on the road?

Just wondering, maybe you think differently, so it's not a rhethorical question.

 

Certainly, I do. However, all things must be taken in stride. If someone I don't know insults me, I'll be hurt, but not for long. If someone that I love cheats on me, I'll be hurt, but not forever; I might hold a grudge against the person who betrayed me, but I can't believe that all people will commit infidelities. Like many have said, instead of turning to the courts or some outside force to assure that you will never be hurt again, you should learn how to take more stock in yourself and become a stronger, more resilient person.

[laisla]

the only law i really know about is if somebody gives you HIV but did not tell you they had it, they will get in trouble. so if your girlfriend had cheated, gotten HIV, then passed it on to you, she'll be in trouble. there is no law for JUST cheating in a bf/gf relationship. but it can be used to back up another claim in the courts.

[laisla]

if you're wondering from a cultural perspective why cheating is not "illegal" here....well in other places of the world there are more strict laws and customs against premarital relationships. there are punishments for even being seen with a man who isn't your husband. so having a boyfriend or girlfriend is out of the question. since the society here is more open and dating is widespread, it is not subject to those penalties since dating is not a legal contractual agreement. over here public shaming and social control is not as strong and is not conducted in the same ways as it is in other areas of the world - so what people have in their hands are the law. since bf/gf relationships can vary from flings to casual dating to serious relationships, they are not easily definable nor law bound like cohabitation or marriage is. thus no "laws" against cheating.

[Seraphim]

This is true and we can not expect the whole world to follow one set of cultural laws.

Is it morally wrong yes, it it legislatively fesible, no.

[lostandhurt]

No matter the number of laws there will always be selfish, dis-honest people that care more for themselves than the ones they love.

 

Morality can not be legislated or honesty for that matter.

 

Lost

[servedcold]

I have a bias against people who ask questions, get reasonable answers, then ignore those answers and pursue the same line of questioning. People have told you WHY you can't legislate fidelity. I refuse to recapitulate those here--I trust the "back" button on your browser works well enough.

 

I have a bias against the level of misinformation being bandied about in this thread. OP's question is a good one and legitimate. In increasingly socialist systems of government, adultery carries a huge social cost that all taxpayers must bear. As government provided services become more and more expensive, it is probable that new legislation will emerge in the future addressing these social costs.

 

From a U.S. perspective, adultery was illegal in most states for years. With the advent of more clearly defined privacy rights, these statutes were either repealed or became dead-letter laws in the mid 20th century, as courts became more and more hesitant to adjudicate personal morality. This happened before the New Deal and Great Society inventions of the quasi-socialist welfare state, thus the social costs of adultery at the time were not as great an issue as they are today.

 

Similar laws could and just may return one day as governments begin to crack under the costs of the services they attempt to provide and look for any revenue raising measures that focus on the origin of the particular social costs as a tax base (see cigarette, gasoline and alcohol taxes).

 

Moreover, though the torts of alienation of affection and criminal conversation have been abolished in most states, they are still on the books in some states and are occasionally litigated. The reasons we don't see more of these cases are that the elements are notoriously difficult to prove, the airing of dirty laundry is embarrassing more often than not, and defendants are often judgment proof, limiting the availability of contingency fee arrangements. When defendants are not judgment proof, prospective embarrassment encourages settlement, and of course such settlements are private matters and usually subject to nondisclosure agreements.

 

Another relatively newer tort, tortious interference with contract, could be applied to the adulterer and the OM/OW, especially if there is an additional, negotiated contract in place.

 

With respect to contract law, though courts scrutinize and disfavor prenuptial agreements due largely to a perceived imbalance of bargaining power between the party with more assets and the party with less, anti-adultery provisions are enforceable. As adultery and cheating continue to escalate, so will the use of such contracts. Again, the problems with money damages are that the defendant is judgment proof more often than not, and the actual amount of damages is hard to set.

 

Turning to cheating outside marriage, as more and more people turn away from marriage as an institution, many will begin to negotiate contracts that govern their non-marital relationship, and these types of contractual arrangements will become a viable alternative to actual marriage, so it's very likely that in the relatively near future, there will be more and more actions originating in these types of breaches.

[Seraphim]

OK, I can see that, but again WHO exactly is paying court costs??? Either way someone is in court in this senerio, and WHO is paying for it?

[Seraphim]

There is not only the cost of paying for it, there is the fact that somethings are legislated by God not the state. The state as it is had enough fingers everywhere with it chances to make more and more and more money. Half the time they can not even get murder and rape cases convicted properly so now we should add adultry cases???? People had better have some pretty SOLID proof for that and I mean SOLID genetic proof.

[servedcold]

First, remember that only a small percentage of civil complaints actually make it to trial, especially when the subject matter is potentially embarrassing, so an overflowing courtroom full of adultery litigants is highly unlikely.

 

Second, payment of legal costs is a negotiated matter (or should be) in almost all contracts, and unless there is a perceived imbalance of bargaining power clouding the mutual assent element of the contract, a court will usually enforce such provisions.

 

Negotiated relationships are a bright spot on the horizon of our social future IMO, lifetime marriage is done, stick a fork in it. Of course there will be limits founded on social policy as to exactly what can and what can't be negotiated, limitations concerning care of children for example.

[DN]

Anyway, I am also talking about cheating in normal boyfriend-girlfriend relationships.

 

Boyfriend-girlfriend have no formal contract of their relationship, but they are together because they trust each other in good faith. When one is cheating, one is pretending to be respecting the relationship while in fact not doing so.

 

The OP was, according to his own admission, also asking about cheating between boyfriend and girlfriend. Adultery, prenups etc apply only for married people.

[Seraphim]

Ok but who is paying for all this mitigation??? Someone has to, it is not being hacked out on the kitchen table.

 

Not only that as I said before things go to a court how about solid proof??? Genetic proof. There are MANY people in jail and many unsolved cases of rape and murder ALL messed up by the state, and we should add to that mess?

 

What to happens when mommy sues daddy and vice versa?? I am not saying that it is not wrong and there should not be a penatly for it BUT, we should see all the angles too.

 

Everyone sounds so sue happy, like the only pentality in the world that means anything is money. Money won't make your heart feel better.

[Belowtheocean]

I wish it were illegal and ppl who do it should be publicly humiliated and labeled. Cheaters are horrible ppl. I don't care if you have a contract in the "legal" system or what not. Adam and Eve didn't have their marriage written down on paper... ppl who come together make a commitment to be faithful and true and if they decide that that is not what they want anymore, than they need to break up with the significant other.

[girl68]

I didn't read any or all of the responses but here's what I think:

 

The last thing society needs is the criminalize more things. What are you going to do put them all in prision? Or give them fines? Arguably the victims of cheating might argue no amount of money could ever repair the pain you've caused. You think I want my tax money funding the absured reality of cheating as a pushinable offense? Dear god, no.

[servedcold]

The OP was, according to his own admission, also asking about cheating between boyfriend and girlfriend. Adultery, prenups etc apply only for married people.

 

My post was long enough, but wanted to emphasize the possibility of agreements between long term partners outside of marriage in the future also. Sure, people aren't going to start having all their BFs/GFs sign on the dotted line starting in high school before dating, but the practice of negotiated relationships among adults will be one way in which cheating is penalized legally. Again, lots of claims will settle due to the subject matter and there is still the problem of the judgment-proof defendant, hard to set damages, etc.

 

I just don't feel the OP's question is all that bizarre, certainly not enough to justify calling him "stubborn" for wanting to discuss it.

[Seraphim]

The cases may settle but no one has answered me on who is paying, and who is paying when the 2 parties themselves can not pay. Does the one person then go to jail cause they can not pay??? I still see tax dollars here now coming out of my pocket and the state with a finger in another pie and a chance to make a bigger mess and more money.

[penelope13]

For arguments sake, let's assume that cheating would be illegal. What would be the consequence? That the number of cheaters decreases? - Not likely in my opinion, since cheating is already morally considered wrong in a number of cultures, nevertheless people do it despite the consequences that they have to fear (loss of the relationship, reputation etc).

 

Most likely people would simply not agree anymore to have any kind of commitment regardless of how long they have been together. Many people decide not to get married anymore although they have been in LTR because they want to keep the option open to end the relationship without having to go through a divorce etc.