BREAKING ALL THE RULES

[February]

Thanks you guys. Lostinvan, I know what you are saying and believe me, I have been there for him through it all. I did comfort him on the phone to. I know he feels "safe" coming to me and probably didn;t out of guilt. I know that he cared/cares about me. The thing about it is, I got into a relationship with someone who wasn't a whole peron after his breakup. I know that. I also really tried to show him, that the beginning of our relationship was going to be his time, his terms, he was the one wounded and upset about things going on in his life. I had come out of a relationship too, but I was whole. Regardless, however, you can not excuse his actions or his half-a%^ attempt to be with me, even as a friend once we were together. I know he needs time, tiem to heal and the sad thing is he never will from his previous relationship if he does not give it space. His ex has moved on and doesn;t see that the best thing for her to do if she wants a friendship with my ex is to leave him alone to heal himself. Codependency takes time to get over and people previosuly in those relationships OF COURSE cannot move onto another until they are healed. I was naive to think that even I could help him through that. But now, where we stand is, a broken person who is floundering (my ex) who has hurt someone he cares about (me) and has overwhelming guilt. And I promise you all, I am not going to make him feel worse than he does I will try to help him thru stuff if he wants my help. But what I realized is that right now, and probably never will he be a man I could count on or when I break down. He shuts down. And that is not healthy, it brings down everyone around them. I do not want that. No worries my friend, I know things will work out for my ex. He is a good person, immature and kinda sad, but good. I will fill you all in on our meetup later tonight or tmrw.

[GeeCee]

February - hope everything goes really well for you tomorrow. Keep us posted.

 

So... it has been a hectic 24 hours for me, and for those of you who are interested, here is an update. Sorry for the length.

 

Just to recap - we arranged to meet last night. Ex turns up and it is all very friendly and light. Like the last six weeks have never happened!!! Anyway after some quite serious drinking, we start flirting, and chatting, and I say you know I have missed you, and he says, yes I have too, but I don't know where this is going. I have thought about you he says, but I am still not sure. So we talk, laugh, drink some more, and there is obviously a huge amount of sexual chemistry. And it is very lighthearted. We did not talk too much about the past, and when we did it was lighthearted. Anyway, I am by nature an honest person - too honest for my own good. And I say to the ex I think that I probably love you and that doesn't cause me too much concern. And if I was desperate to get you back, I most certainly would not say this. I don't want you to say anything, but I would like you to know it. And he says, yes I think you do. And he says, look, if I didn't care so much about you, I would continue to see you, but I don't know if that is fair, given you are getting more emotionally involved. But, he says, I like to see you!! He says, I can't rationalise it - if I had to list all of the attributes of a woman that I would want, you would tick all of the right boxes.

 

However, he says, something shuts down and I cannot commit. It worries me, he says, because I could look back at this as a wasted opportunity.

 

He asks me whether I have been seeing anyone else (in the last six weeks), and I say yes, but it's casual and not going anywhere. He then asks me whether I have had sex with anyone else and I say to him that that is none of his business. And so he says, well that's a yes then. And I say, no it is none of your business. Now because he has asked, I feel that I have the right to ask him. He says, no I have not been seeing anyone and I have not had sex with anyone else. You were the last person that I had sex with.

 

So, of course, we have sex, and it is lovely and delicious. (Guys it has been 6 weeks and I was beginning to feel like Rusty Renata!!!) And really it was just like the past. And we are very close. And eventually we sleep. In the morning, it is comfortable, he is certainly in no rush to leap out of the door or bed. We talk a little, he's affectionate, and he leaves at 7.00.

 

At 8.30 he sends me a text saying - hey stranger. Good to see you again. Take care of yourself and tell T i said hi. M xx.

 

I responded this evening with Good to see you too. Busy day - feeling shattered. G xx

 

Now I know that we all have feelings of paranoia here on this site from time to time, and we have far too much to analyse everything to the nth degree. Of course, I am well aware that loads of you are going to say bad move to tell him that you love him. What did you do that for. I told him, because I haven't told him before, and when I said it, I felt happy and secure in it. Now I know that this might not have been a good move, however, I don't regret it. Of course I was not supposed to have sex with him - but this too felt right.

 

My question is about the text - take care - what the hell does that mean - that sounds like a goodbye to me. What do you think. I never write take care, unless someone is going away. And he has never written take care before. Opinions please?!?!?!

 

Of course, I know what I should do now. I have responded to his text. And now I have to wait and see if he makes some kind of positive move. Guys, please give me a man's perspective on this.

 

Beec, Majord, Spatz and Lostinvan I would welcome your advice. I am sure that you are going to say that I have made this too easy for him. He feels that he can have me any time he wants me. But perhaps you could give me your male opinion on the rest of the evening.

 

Would really appreciate a man (or woman's) perspective.

 

Thanks guys.

 

G xx

[spatzcolumbo]

Interesting reading your post!!!

 

All i can say is, i'll post more tomorrow!!! I only just got in from work (9.22) and i'm shattered!!

 

I'll try read it through tomorrow morning in a bit more detail!!

 

Cheers

Spatz

[GeeCee]

Need the perspective of a man Spatz.

 

I have to admit I was surprised to get a text so early in the morning - seeing as he had just left my house. Two schools of thought for me - he decided that no this is definitely not what he wants and sent the text off quickly - but then why say good to see you. Or he was genuinely pleased to see me - but why the 'take care', which I still think one would say to someone they were not going to see any more.

 

Aaargh!!!! Why am I so easily driven by my desires for this man!!!!

 

You will find this hard to believe, but I am actually a very strong woman! Honestly.

 

This is not good, is it Spatz?

 

G xx

[GeeCee]

The constant analysis of everything is making me demented!!!! Maybe it is not soooo bad. Maybe it is slightly OK?

 

Reassure me, guys, but only if you mean it!!

 

G xx

[spatzcolumbo]

i WILL post more tomorrow, but just a thought that take care *could* have simply meant take care??

 

It is possible that he said it to be taken at face value.

 

Remember that possibility!

[GeeCee]

Spatz!!!! Stopped sounding so *&^$ing reasonable!!! You are supposed to be as demented as me!!!!

 

G xx

 

P.S. What are we doing to ourselves?? This is hard to believe, I have a decent job, own my own car, house etc. Why am I reduced to acting like a 14 year old again - I am waaaaaay to old for this!

[February]

GeeCee, Wow, it sounds like you enjoyed yourself and the night went well, except that he did not say I am ready to commit to you. I have to go back a read you whole situation again girl, but i sounds to me as if this man is commitment-phobe. He obviously though is a nice guy and honest and has told you listen I really like you, you are all the things I look for but for some reason I am not ready to be with you. That is really confusing. What I think is this. This man knows how wonderful you are, how sweet, honest and sincere a woman you are, he also knows how much you love him. But since he told you he does not want to be commited to you right now, you need to decide what you want out of the relationship and if you are willing to wait for the the "possibility" that he will one day wake up and realize damn I am an idiot this woman is the one I have been searching for my whole life. GeeCee what happened in his past relationships? Did he have trouble committing there too, or did they have terrible endings (again sorry didn;t read your first post)? I think you know this man cares about you, but if he does not want more than a casual relationship for now, would you or could you start dating other guys?

[GeeCee]

Hi February - thanks for your opinion. Yes, he definitely is commitment-phobic. He has told me that absolutely. From the very first date. But, to be honest, until I met him, so was I. And during that first date, we both discussed the fact that we worried that at our age that we would ever be able to sustain a committed relationship (obviously that was not necessarily in relation to the two of us at the time). However, I fell in love, and felt I would like to commit and he has gotten scared.

 

His previous relationships - he was married, and his ex left him, breaking up their family. He says it was a real shock at the time, and that he almost had a breakdown, that it took him 18 months to recover. I know that he was very hurt. He has also said that he would much rather jump ship than get hurt in the future.

 

You asked me whether he was able to break off relationships in the past. Yes, definitely, he had told me that if there was nothing there, he would break off things immediately and not go back. So, that maybe should give me a little comfort.

 

Of course, you are right. I have to make a decision - do I continue to see someone who is honest, attractive, intelligent and intoxicating, but not able to commit. Or do I say, no this is not good enough for me. Well, this is a tough one. Of course, my head tells me one thing and my heart screams something completely different. I know that, at the moment, I am not willing to just let it go. I am prepared to fight. However, February, my biggest weakness (other than him!!), is impatience. I am terribly impatient. So, I know that what I have to do is give him space, be emotionally supportive, whilst leading my own life, and leave the door open enough just wide enough for him to take a peek.

 

However, one cannot and should not do that indefinitely. At the moment, I am going to have to really follow his leads. But I'll tell you something February, listening to what he says and looking at his body language - there are two very different conversations going on there!! Completely contradictory. And you know there can be a huge difference in the type of sex that a couple splitting up can have - the unemotional physical act that simply provides a release, and the other - physically and emotional fulfilling - and it was like that last night. More mixed messages.

 

I can't really fault him - and I suspect he can't fault me. We have both been really honest about how we feel. We have made no promises or ultimatums.

 

As to your final question - I would not want to date anyone else right now.

 

G xx

 

P.S. Sorry I did not ask - did you see your ex today?

[February]

Well, GeeCee you soiund pretty together about the whole thing. And ya know, one of my weaknesses is my impatience as well. Your ex sounds like he madea conscious decision in his life never to be hurt the same again, so he does not allow himself to get too emotionally attached. It is no longer part of his nature. Although from the way you make it sound, my opinion is, if you make it clear to him that you are completely fine being casual and you do back off, you may ne able to change his mind in the long run. How I look at your situation is, what do you have to lose? I mean you are going into the casual thing KNOWING the whole story and that the possibilty exists that you may never get what you ultimately want (him commited to you). But for now, it sounds like a happy medium to exist in as long as you can really TRY to calm you impatient side and when you don't hear from in awhile you don't always break down and call. Keep him guessing I say. Call when you feel like it sometimes and other times don;t.

 

As for me? Well a few things. #1 after my conversation with him yesterday, I know I do not want him back anymore. He is not the person I thought he was and really I doubt he is ever going to change. He is selfish and weak and although, yes he has terrible things going on, if you only knew how amazing I have been to this man. Ever since I have known him. We were friends for 3 years. He has no reason to ever be or treat me the way he did. None. Even if he said I am in love with my ex still I would have been so ok. I mean not really, but he would not have known that. Anyway, I know now that the boy is confused and sad and really may never realize what he is losing in me. His ex and him will NEVER work out I am sure about that one. But I digress...#2 There is a huge possibilty that he will bail on me tonight. He just may not answer his phone, and say he worked REALLY REALLY late in a cop out email tmrw or something. (Ya see I have no faith in this person whatsoever anymore). So, we will reschedule to do the stuff exchange some other time. Either way though, I think I pretty much got the closure I needed yesterday. I will keep you posted however if we do end up meeting up tonight.

[GeeCee]

Good luck February. You sound very composed and so, I guess, that indicates that your decision is the right one for you.

 

I don't know about you, February. I find my emotions are on some kind of rollercoaster. One day I am full of fight, and will be able to take anything on, the next I feel despair and sorrow and the loss.

 

What I do know, from reading opinions from the likes of Beec, Majord, Spatz is that I find it very hard to play 'the game' when my emotions are involved. In the past I have been happy playing the game, revelled in playing the game, but, I sure have been playing the wrong game lately! At some point, I guess he will have to miss a shot, and I will need to ensure that I am ready for that opportunity.

 

G xx

 

P.S. No-one ever said this was easy, did they? So, I am surprised that we are finding it such hard work!! We should have anticipated this.

[majord23]

GeeCee,

What are we going to do with you girl??

 

I need to know how you are *really* coping. You give the impression of someone who is very much in control and very positive about life in general....and you seem to be coping really well with the situation BUT is appearing to cope well a true reflection of how you are actually coping? Just interested.

 

Now, as for your situation....I'll be honest and say that it's a big step backwards, but by no means a step out of the game.

 

In effect what has happened is that he has found out that you still love him and he got laid. On top of that, you have given him the impression that he has enough power over you to make you sleep with him while you are "sort of" seeing someone else.

 

That is what he has gotten out of it....all in all, a pretty good night for him wouldn't you say?

 

Now, what have you gotten out of it? Apart from the physical aspect (which I know you appreciated ), you have probably got more questions now than before, and a lot more heartache.

 

You had a really good opportunity last night….he would have been as jealous as hell when you mentioned seeing someone else AND when you refused to confirm or deny whether you'd slept with anyone else it would have driven him bonkers……so you went from driving him bonkers to bonking him…and losing that advantage.

 

As for his text – he simply beat you to the punch. I'm not sure if it's in this thread or 'Security Tennis' but I remember telling someone when attempting to act aloof to end a text with "Take Care"…..sounds like only a small action to take, but look at the effect it has.

 

Don't read too much into it GeeCee – he's playing the game.

 

I hope this post doesn't sound too critical of you….you know I'm got much love for you babes….I think last night was a big mistake, but you've also *potentially* put yourself in a stronger position. You've proved that you have power over him….now you have to withdraw to take advantage of it, otherwise you're going to end up going around in circles.

 

Be strong GeeCee, now is not the time to act and then say "It's just the way I am"…that's an excuse that is going to dig you a deeper hole.

[Beec]

GeeCee, GeeCee, GeeCee,

 

OK, no lectures.

 

First of all, I sign off "take care" on emails and calls to my gf a lot. I left her a message yesterday and did. So do not take it as meaning more than this one thing: he wasn't signing off "love" . . . If he did not feel like saying "love" then he wouldn't, and after that stop reading anything into it.

 

Second, yes, I do not agree with what you did and/or allowed him to do. What would I do now? Ignore him until he asks you out. If his night was really that good, then he will coming smelling around for some more. Wait until he does, I cannot say much else.

 

Since I know you have a certain book, read about the parts about the Empress Josephine, and how she conquered Napoleon. My head tells me the way to get someone is to give emotional fulfillment, then take it away. So maybe that the ticket, but you need to give it some time. I now the urges of wanting someone physically, but you need to exercise some patience or, I think, you stand less chance to lure him out of his committment phobia.

[vfunkera]

hey GeeCee ,

 

For someone who is going through a break up you sound very composed indeed GeeCee, almost like you are enjoying it. I would usually come out with full ammunition and tell you to stop playing games and start going for goal, and that would be to move on because the longer you hang around, the longer it would hurt. But no, your enjoying it?!?

 

Having skim read from pg 39 onwards, If your happy doing what ever it is your doing, then by all means go and do it, but I have never been a fan of playing emotionally mind 'games' in trying ot get the ex back.

 

For a women at the age of 38, what is it you now want in a relationship? And one thing i can debate is on what premesis do you (and the rest of this posse) want your ex coming back for you? Because his insecurities and desperation for a girl are getting the better of him? Because he misses you- only fuelled by a seductive 'hot and cold' temptations approach?

 

Or because he has had time and space to think, and explore, and come to realisation that you were the one for him, and that there aren't a lot of girls out there who compare to you as a girlfriend, and ultimately as a wife? This premesis offers the risk that they will not come back to you, but that is your benefit because its better that it ended then rather than going through another break up had he come back on earlier reasons.

 

I know that what I have to do is give him space, be emotionally supportive, whilst leading my own life, and leave the door open enough just wide enough for him to take a peek.

 

That is the way to go from my point of view. If theres one thing we can all agree on its that make sure the rendez-vous and sex never happens again girl, that only further pushes back the reaction you are looking for him. I would stop toying around with this guy, because if he really did want you back, then he would have been back with you that night regardless of his commitment-phobia thingy. And that only means that he is playing the game, especially with his text message. I would leave it for now and wait until he returns for another night of sex. Maybe then you can surprise him with how far you are getting. 8)

 

Good luck

[GeeCee]

Thanks Beec, vfunkera, Majord. I can feel the waves of disappointment coming through the ether!! Let down myself and womankind.

 

Not sure how much I am enjoying playing - don't actually think I want to be playing with him - really would like to be in a committed relatinship with him. Just not going about it in a very positive manner. Seem to lose my head. Enough of the excuses - Vfunkera - of course you are right - I am far too old for this.

 

Major, if I allowed myself to start crying, I might never stop, so that is not an option. I have to remain composed because otherwise..... But I feel sad and broken. Of course I have made it very easy for him. I find this constant analysis very draining. But then I think - must be positive.

 

Here is my promise - I have obviously posted on this site for a reason. I will now try and follow the advice you wonderful wonderful people are giving.

 

I have responded to his text. Simply said good to see you.

 

Shall now do nothing.

 

G xx

[LostinVan]

Hi GeeCee. Sorry for the late reply (and also, I should note, for the next five days my ability to reply will be limited).

 

I don't know how much I could add to this. First, I'm a complete neophyte at this whole "how to fix the relationship" thing, and only go by what I get out of a) reading these boards, b) reading books verociously, and c) from my initial counselling sessions.

 

I did note something, I hope it isn't a downer and it's already been said - while you should not read too much into the "take care" comment, there was no "love, so and so" comment. But I think that's minimal. We're dealing with what, 126 characters of usable space in a txt message?

 

Also, my perspective may be wonked anyway. Right now, my ex and I are talking, are hugging, are even hand holding and the occasional kiss on the cheek (from her) while we talk. But this morning, when she drove me to the airport, I went to hug her (which her body language accepted), and went to kiss her on the cheek... her body language went rigid, and she quickly turned her face like 90 degrees, just so I wouldn't be anywhere near the lips... not within a country mile. I almost sensed revulsion (maybe reading too much into it).

 

So the concept of having sex with the ex is something I can't even come close to comprehending or analysing. All I can say is this - I wouldn't have sex with my ex again until I knew we were going to get back together... that's a fact in my brain, and it sits like this: to me, sex has rarely been casual - once I got past my early 20s, I only enjoyed sex with people I felt especially close to, and in love with (at various degrees, including "falling in love with"). So to have sex with the ex before I knew we were going to be happy together again would be tantamount to using her, or lying to myself... to me (not to you, or anyone else for that matter), sex at any point in a breakup would be cheap, and damaging.

 

Again, that's my perspective. Prolly why I'd never consider a prostitute or imagine myself doing the "casual scene" for some gratification. Now where's those old porno tapes...

 

Still, a kiss on the lips would be a nice step

[spatzcolumbo]

Geecee,

 

This is very weird...i was lying in bed last night thinking about my ex, and then i was thinking about your situation. I thought to myself how you often seem to be really positive on the boards - almost like you are thriving on the 'game' and the way it is happening. This i have related to the way some people i know thrive on stress. They are not happy unless they have something to stress about. I am not saying this is the case for you at all, but it is funny that now i have logged on that Majord, Beec, and Vfunkera are all saying just what i was thinking!!

 

I know you have ups and downs, but you often seem to come accross as very calm and confident about your actions. It is obviously hard to tell on message boards how much your comments mirror your true feelings.

 

Having caught up to some extent with recent posts, i would have to agree with the others...i think it is harsh to say it was a 'mistake' to sleep with him - whats done is done, no point in making anyone feel bad by saying it was a huge mistake. What you must concentrate on now is how to play it in the future to maximise your chances of getting where you want to with this guy.

 

Anyway, back to work...

[GeeCee]

Thanks Spatz -your words are not harsh at all - your opinion is what I asked for.

 

So .... took a couple of steps forward last week and then stepped back into the jurassic era the other night!!

 

No, I am not thriving on the game, nor the challenge, although I am a person who will respond to challenge. I love and want him, and perhaps you are all feeling that I have cheapened myself by having sex with him. No doubt that is right. We had sex with no promises attached though. I did not ask for anything, and he did not offer anything. Two people in a room who both find each other attractive, there is going to be some sexual tension going on - put yourself in that situation with you ex S - we acted on it. Of course it was not the wisest thing to do, on either of our parts actually. If he does not want to be with me, he may well be thinking that that was a bad move on his part.

 

However, I have said that I find the whole game-playing thing difficult on some level because i am very honest, both in my feelings and my actions. Yes, I should have looked at the bigger picture and did not. We were both in a good position in terms of looking to the future and I did not take a long-term view. I am most certainly not interested in losing my dignity or in him losing his dignity, and for me that has not happened for either one of us. But I can understand why you might think otherwise.

 

I am not playing an emotional game. I have to keep myself composed. I am naturally optimistic. I am naturally able to manage my emotions and stress. I do not have time not to.

 

I have cried, raged, moped, got drunk, got more drunk, cried some more, screamed about the injustices. Called him when I shouldn't have etc. But beneath it all, I remain aware that I am in charge (not always very well) of my own destiny. I love him, and am sure that he loves me. I am not very good at patience. I feel very sorry for myself on occasion, but that is reactive and I tend to be a more practive person.

 

I am not enjoying what I am doing. I am strong, I do make my own decisions. And suddenly, the decision-making process seems to be out of my hands.

 

Spatz, I don't know what else to do but cope - what choice is there?

 

I am strong inasmuch as I can post on hear and put my hands up to my mistakes and seek further guidance. I can say I feel sad for the mistakes I have made, they are of my making.

 

Or I can cry and cry and cry. I will do both, but I am not craving the hurt I feel or feeding off it. Perhaps I come accross that way because I come accross as flippant - but I can only deal with the darkness I feel with a sense of humour.

 

Basically guys - I have *&$%ed up big time. And I realise that. Back to square one fills me with terror, because I know how I have felt for the last six weeks.

 

Oh, sorry, rambling a little.

 

Thanks again for your support. Don't worry about being harsh - be harsh - up to now, I have asked for advice, but been stupid enough not to always take it - but ultimately we all have to make the decision we think is right.

 

If it happened again, would I do the same thing. I hope not - I hope I have learned something from this - patience, patience, and more patience.

 

G xx

 

P.S. And thanks guys - for being so honest.

[spatzcolumbo]

I am in full agreement - i was not meaning to sound harsh anyway. I think you are right in that you personally, and nobody else, know how you deal with this situation. There is no point in looking back on what happened the other day - look more at what you can now do to fix the situation to your advantage. If you will look back (which we all know you will because thats what we do naturally), then look at what it could mean in a positive way. Look at how you can use it to turn the situation to your advantage.

 

Just make sure you are not too hard on yourself.

[spatzcolumbo]

...and one other thing guys, after the text last week, etc, i know that she will be home soon. I also know that they have broadband at home, which means she is bound to pop up online at some point...so whats my plan....if i see her pop up online do i start a convo with her or let her start it??

 

Someone just pointed out to me that her 'it means a lot to me' comment was probably saying she knows how much she hurt me but that it means a lot that i can still be friends with her.

 

Which is a bad thing, surely?

[GeeCee]

No, of course you did not sound harsh Spatz. What I think that we want here is for someone to take a more objective view than we sometimes do ourselves (well, actually, I am talking about me!!!). You know that separating the wood from the trees thing.

 

So, whereas I might disagree with something said or advice given, I would not find it harsh, because ultimately no-one else can possibly understand the full sequence of events, the suble nuances that resulted in the way we both behaved.

 

So ... there is a dark side to all of this - I may well have ruined it all because of a bad move on one night. But mindful that I am the eternal optimist - hey the sex was great!!

 

G xx

 

P.S. Before someone else comments that I am composed or seemingly enjoying torturing myself - remember we all deal with sadness/ heartache/emotions differently.

 

My heart hurts just as much as the next persons - I am not able to show it - even on an anonymous forum like this, at the moment. That does not mean that I am enjoying this.

[spatzcolumbo]

Hey, as long as you are happy with the way you are dealing with things then thats the most important thing.

 

Half the time i don't even take my own advice - i told you to not worry about the 'take care' comment, and to rty not to read into messages too much, yet here i am still trying to read things from her message the other day!!!

 

Pretty stupid really!!! Its only a bunch of words!!

 

ps - wonder where Beec is...he's got a lot to catch up on - i'm not sure he's seen anything about her message to me yet...and i for one miss his advice greatly!!

[February]

Hey Guys. Ya konw GeeCee, I feel bad b/c I totally saw your side to things too and I kinda made the same mistake, but I see now our experts were right on this one. I don't think it's a lost cause, but now that he knows you love him, he has full reign to trample on your emotions again, so make sure you are not around. NO CONTACT in effect again!!

 

As for my situation ya'll. WEll it is pretty sad. But ya know even though I am sad, I realize that I now don't want my ex back. He is not ready for relationship now, and who knows when he will be. I know though I am not going to wait around. He is very selfish and I realize how much so now. So here is what happened with me. REcap quickly, friends with ex for 3 yrs. he got out of a seriosu 4 year thing, miserable relationship, still codependcy, still addiction. He is still not a whole person from that breakup. We got into a relationship and things were like fireworks at first, love, love, love like I never felt before. HE said he was fallign for me, we had tons of fun together and he truly was the closest person to me. Then he started pulling away, I was supportive of his needing space and still things dissolved and ended. Ya see, when he gets overwhelmed by life he shuts down. So many things going on with him, moving, ex still taunting him, family issues, etc. ANyway, I broke the no contact to get my stuff back and say the things I wanted to say that never got a chance to. I know this goes against the cardinal rules laid out by you all, but for my own sanity and to move on I needed to do it. When he got out of work, we chatted on the phone for about 20 minutes as he walked partially home (then cabbed the rest of teh way). Called me when he got to his door and said "hey wanna grab a beer instead" I said that is fine, but I want my stuff first. I went over there, he looked like crap, his place was a wreck. I gace him his b-day card first to gauge his mood. He loved it and hugged me. He wanted to change his shoes so we went into his room, and as he changed his shoes I told him all the things I wanted to say. Guys, I was rational and honest and told him to be friends we needed to resolve our breakup. I told him how he still needs to get over his ex and I realize that now. That he has to give it space and time and aknowledge that he still needs to work through that. I also told him I knew that the first part of our relationship was going to be about alot of things he needed to work thru and I was willling to give him space with that. However I did not expect or appreciate that he was not honest with me and didn't just communicate how he felt - Not wanting to be in a relationship right now. WE talked about other stuff and how much I had cared for him, and he apologized for the way he acted and how we broke up. Then we hugged and went for a beer. Ran into his roomie, who had know idea we broke up and likes me so he said "where ya been, we missed you, etc" Then as we were leaving the roomie asked to come too and my ex said "no man, we need to just hang out, us" So we went for a beer which turned into 3. We chatted about what we missed in each others lives and let me give the clinching highlights: He said he wants to be single and just have the chance to hook up with girls again, he wants to not feel like he has to call or be obgligated to anyone. He wants to just think of himself for awhile and figure out what he wants in life. he also said he hopes I am over him so we can be friends again and that he hopes I wouldn;t be upset if I saw him waling down the street with another girl.

 

Now I am not sure if you all would or wouldn't be proud of me and my responoses: I said. I think that is great he wants to find himslef, meet girls, hook up etc. I know how long it has been for him. Also said that I am over him b/c truthfully I realised that anyone who could act so cowardly is not someone I would ever want to really be with for the loong haul. I also said that of course I wouldn;t be weird if I saw him with someone else b/c I am not a jealous person and I know how special our relationship and friendship is/was and other relationships he has will be different and not compare, all are unique and I wouldn't feel like that took away from our relationship. Oh we also talked about his relationship with his ex, and although I don;t think he is completely over it, I don;t think they will ever get back together-she has moved on too and jas a new bf.

 

So guys, we talked and chatted more, he asked if I was dating I said I had one date (I did it was terrible) and I was honest with him about it. I said though I am excited to be single again too (it had been 3 years for me) and so it was all good.

 

We left he offered to walk me down my block, but I declined and we hugged, my end was weak and he said "let's talk tmrw."

 

Now, guys, as I said I do not want him back, not sure i even want to be friends at this point. But would still liek to make sense of the whole thing. I think he jumped into something too quick, he freaked to be in another relationship so fast, he still has unresolved issues with his ex, and he needs to be own his own for awhile to realize what he wants. But would love to hear everyone's thoughts. I think my story is a good lesson learned. I think that my ex, does care for me, but until he is ready to really try again with anyone (time will tell) he is not going to pursue anything serious. I do wonder if when he is ready he turns to me, or b/c I kinda burned that bridge he thinks that is a dead end too. I think it is more likely that when he is ready he finds someone else. And since is willing to put up w/ misery, it will be more about the time than anything else. So guys, tell me, I blew it forever huh? I think maybe that is a good thing in this case...what do you think? Was it all a game?

[GeeCee]

Hi February

 

Good to hear from you, and really glad that you seem to be dealing well with your situation. Well.... I am not quite sure what you are saying here. On the one hand, you say you don't want him in your life, even as a friend. On the other, you want to know whether he will come back, and whether you have blown it.

 

Now, you probably know as well as I that what is good for us is not always what we want to do. This man might not be good for you, but for whatever reason he fulfills some kind of need in you. He has asked for space, and you have agreed to do that. You seem quite calm in that. I think that I would give you the same advice that others have given me. I do not believe in the no-contact as a best-fit for all. I don't think that not contacting someone will embed in them a feeling of loss if it is not there. However, you could use elements of the no-contact rule to your advantage, I think. But only when you have decided what, if anything you want to get out of this relationship. If you want to continue fulfilling an emotional need in him, then by all means stay in touch, check on how he is doing, meet for a drink every now and them (IN PUBLIC!!!), and see where casual and light leads the two of you.

 

If you want him back, I guess you have to do what I am having difficulty with, and that is let him find out what he wants, and then decide whether you are able and willing to provide that.

 

If you want nothing to do with him, that won't mean that you feel less pain, but I guess that is where the no-contact rule would really come into its own for you.

 

By the way, you behaved in a much more dignified and calm way. You did all the right things. Be proud of that.

 

Now me ... yikes! Of course I am in that dreaded cylce of no-contact. Aargh!!!! But I guess as you begin each cycle, the pain becomes more tolerable. And them, ultimately, some kind of survival mechanism kicks in. I do have a zest for life, and will fight the idea that one person can have this much control over my happiness - but it is scary.

 

Of course, I have done some things wrong. But for me, the no-contact rule does not work in this situation. I know that if was interested, even remotely, someone ****ing around waiting the pre-determined amount of time before they responded to my message/call/text would assuage some of that interest.

 

On the one hand, it is possible that he is playing games with me. But on the other, I have to say that he has been very honest, he has not led me on in any way whatsover. It is possible that he does not know himself what he wants, and that respect, I have not been very clever.

 

I detest the idea of no-contact - of playing such ridiculous games. Detest it. I hate the emotional roller-coaster and constant analysis. I find it completely mindless. I also don't think that he is playing games intentionally. Of course, he has the upper hand, but I have had that before, and not used it very wisely. What I want, more than anything, is a balanced relationship where power transfers naturally from one to the other. Is this too much to ask?

 

But like the rest of you - oh do I miss him.

 

G xx

 

P.S. By the way, Spatz - didn't Beec mention that he was going to be very busy over the next couple of days? Imagine - he's gone for two days, and look at the trouble I get myself in!! Don't think that he will be very impressed with my antics - oh the shame!!!!

Majord - thanks - you are always so charming - let's make a date to run away into the sunset sometime soon!!

[majord23]

Hey GeeCee,

The opinion I gave yesterday was my honest opinion based on a variety of things….but mainly based on my own experience. I thought I should explain where I'm coming from.

 

I once had a girl break-up with me because her ex began to show interest in her again. Anyway, I went home for Christmas (Australia) and vowed that on my return I would maintain no contact…I did, and within 2 days of arriving back in the UK she had texted, called and emailed so I caved and went to meet her for a drink.

We got on like an absolute house on fire, and ended up in bed. Being a naive young lad in a big city I assumed that we were on the path to getting back together (we hadn't discussed 'us' the whole night). The next morning I was shattered to hear her words "This doesn't change anything y'know."

Obviously I was devastated but maintained a dignified demeanour, resisted the temptation to push her when she was heading down the stairs and said goodbye. I had been used, BIG time….and not once had she thought about my feelings. It was almost like she had deliberately waited until she got what she wanted before coming clean (I should have pushed her down the stairs!).

 

So, a few weeks goes by and I am feeling better about myself…and I didn't contact her at all (I knew she'd call) – when she *did* call and ask to go for a drink, I agreed.

The ensuing night was quite possibly the biggest triumph I have ever had over an ex….it was pretty much the same as the first night (in the pub), but I was far more stand-offish. She asked if I was seeing anyone and I said "Yep, someone I've known for a while actually". She asked who and I refused to tell her (I was lying through my teeth)…and can I just add at this point that I should have pushed her down the stairs a few weeks earlier…..so, she got jealous, asked me all the questions under the sun but I didn't budge. It drove her mad.

At the end of the night, she got VERY tactile and suggested that we go back to my place. I told her that I was flattered, but I respected myself too much to sleep with her just to make her feel better about herself…..because at the end of the day "it wouldn't change a thing, y'know" (I loved saying those words to her!)

At the end of the night, I wished her the best, said "Take care" and kissed her on the cheek.

 

She must have called me about a dozen times over the 2 weeks…and eventually we got back together BUT it was MY decision.

 

My point is this – you are in the same position that I was in, and you have the power to do this to your ex. He WILL call you hunny, He WILL ask to meet up again….the other night was a learning experience more than anything GeeCee – and quite possibly a learning experience that you needed to have in order to be aware of what you now have to do.

 

You haven't cheapened yourself in my eyes at all - you have done the same thing that I, and countless others have done in the past. What really matters is what you do now.

 

I hate the 'game' too babes, it's f^&*&g horrible….but if wanting our exes back and telling them we love them was the solution, we'd all be with them. Unfortunately it aint that easy.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself, you are ok GeeCee – you are a normal person who reacted in a normal way.

 

If anyone on the board tells you that you made a mistake (like I did), it isn't to rub it in…it's to hopefully prevent it from happening again. We aren't disappointed, we are just trying to keep you from harm.

 

xox

 

Ps I should have pushed her down the stairs