BREAKING ALL THE RULES

[GeeCee]

Ahem ..... Beec .... and me?!?!?!?

[kathyk]

and me? almost 9 weeks??

[GeeCee]

Ok Kathy

 

I am thinking that we need to start working on something a little more proactive for you. You are having a lull and cannot see the wood for the trees. I know that I get like that sometimes.

 

So ... let me think about this tonight - but am kind of thinking that you should head for bed. Your thoughts are raging and this is doing you no good. Sleep it off Kathy.

 

Tomorrow will be a new day and we will begin a new plan of action.

 

Please, Kathy - go to bed.

 

G xx

[Beec]

kathyk,

 

You are getting in the right state of mind to go proactive. You are also probably beginning to understand the concepts and strategies. It will soon be time to start setting your trap. Don't get down now.

 

GeeCee,

 

You seem like you did just fine today, and you already know that's what I think. He came over to see YOU, was excited to show YOU the new house, etc. You need to begin putting some fresh bait in that trap.

 

on another note, this thread is nearing one hunded pages. Holy parrot turd, that's a lot of crackers.

[LostinVan]

GeeCee: I'm not sure how much I could add here. Your dynamic is different from mine - ie, kisses, the occasional shag and such - there seems to be this animal lust between the two of you that goes beyond what the brains are saying (not sure on his part, I'm guessing). In my case, my ex is, at least outwardly, treating me as if I were a brother, and she gives signs most days that kissing me on the lips is repugnant. As a joke a week or 10 days ago, the subject of blowjobs came up and when I hinted that hey, I could be the stanky boss role and she could be the unsure assistant and well, you know. Now, in the past if I brought something like that up, she'd be totally like "hrmmm, heyah!" (in fact, she brought up the old boss and secretary "fantasy" in the past some times). This time, some 10 days ago or such, she treated the joke with obvious disgust.

 

Okay LostinVan, focus on GeeCee's sitch. I think you did good overall, especially considering the past... ie, the intimacy. But, have you, at any time in the last little while, told him that you want to work on yourself before you hop back into things? Told him either directly or intimated it? If you haven't, and considering the past intimacies, he may be wondering if you've gone flat, gone "non interested any longer"... but probably not, since your exchange with him seemed positive and upbeat.

 

I think at this stage, keeping communication open, fun, light, upbeat but no "I love you!" is the way to go. Even though I'm having another down day (I'll post to my thread soon), it seems to be working. My mantra is, if there's any signs of positive stuff, go with it... even if I'm personally having another yo yo day at the bottom of the string.

 

LostinVan.

[Beec]

OK, let's give LostInVan some attention.

 

LostInVan, you have likely by now read my stuff. If you disagree, I'll leave you alone. But since you don't seem to, let's look at your dynamic. You are now getting a fair amount of contact with your ex, and she treats you like a brother. Disgusted by the idea of any sexual contact, but somehow there still seems to be some friendship.

 

Now, to some extent you are within in her circle, so you can go to work on her, if you want her back. The question is how.

 

Well, let's think about this, and I will use an example. Imagine there is a woman you work with, she is nice enough but you just think she is disgusting looking and totally whacked in the head. She has an entirely different view on life, with which you could never agree. She lets you know what her view is on everything and talks a lot. In short, I am trying to paint a picture of a woman that induces shrinkage in your equipment because of her less than mere presense. You do nothing to encourage the idea that there might be soemthign, but she gets the hots for you and starts to let you know about it. Every day at work, she makes jokes of a sexual nature about you and her together. How are these jokes going to make you feel? Like you wish she would shut up about it just to make your lfie more tolerable.

 

Now, I cannot say what changed in your exes mind, but something did. Somethign makes her see you as closer to the way you see the above, imaginary woman than you would ever like to be. Your sex jokes are not helping and are doing more harm than good. Stop them.

 

Now the next issue is why did she start to see you in a less than attractive light. Until you can figure that out, jsut be a friend. Treat her like that hot woman you worked with who was always nice to you, but you could nto figure out whether you had a chance. Always nice, nothing sexual, always trying to compliment her to see if she would give you a shot.

 

Any questions? Any comments? Want to tell me to mind my own business, go ahead.

[LostinVan]

I see your point Beec (and appreciate your comments), and what you say could very well be true.

 

But I've been wondering if another thing is going on....

 

a) she's signed up on an "intimacy" portion of a popular web dating board. Has been signed up on it for several months. She's also on the "dating" portion of the board.

 

b) She says specifically in her bio she wants sex chat, and talks about being a bad girl.

 

I was thinking that the "no kiss, no sex jokes" thing is a bit deeper... I'm thinking there's a heap of guilt involved. If she is in sex chats for real with a variety of guys, (and we know what guys are like on this board), perhaps she's embarrassed and ashamed about it, vis a vis me... she did say in her bio that she has a fiance (it's an old bio, written before our breakup) and "no, he does not know, and yes, if he knew, he would be very upset".

 

So if she's having her illicit fun, and she's initiated a break up with me, even if she did have sexual feelings for me now (and last night I got the first BARE hint that she would have liked to kiss me - didn't happen today though - she is back to total "friend" mode), perhaps the combination of events is making her react a certain way, ie, NO KISSING attitude, showing offense over the BJ joke.

 

Thoughts? Or am I trying to put blinders on and avoid what you said?

 

LostinVan (sorry GeeCee for the slight hijack).

[Beec]

Wow, I don't go in for that much analysis. When is comes to doing it I am strictly amateur, and you are giving me something more complicated than I wish to take a stab at.

 

What I do go in for is trying to play your man or woman (I will call them a target, victim, etc.) and get to their emotions. At first to make them secure, you do not want them knowing for what you aiming (seduction, getting them back and in a bigger way than you ever had them). Them making them feel just so good to be around you. Then, you need to improvise.

 

She's got defenses up to a sexual advance. Why they are up, I am not about to try to figure out. But the first you shoudl do is get those defenses down. You want to be the guy who walks up to the moat and fishes out of it each day, so that the guards stop considering you a threat.

 

Then you start making friends with the guards, then you get the guards to let you in because you are so much fun to be around, then you basically take over teh whole castle. But you need to remember, that once you are in, some guards may still be around. You are not in, yet, so worry about that later. Get the guards, i.e. her defenses, to stop thinking you may be a threat. After which you can think abotu how you are going to get in behing those defenses. Maybe you'll scale the walls, maybe you will have the bridge be let down and you can walk in, maybe you'll sneak in riding in the back of a hay cart.

[LostinVan]

Fair enough Beec. No more analysing what may be going through her mind... start analysing how I can get her mind back to where she finds me hot (instead of not).... I get the drift

 

I like the analogies btw.

 

But I'm now completely stumped. I have still been analysing the past, and the present. I gotta figure out, well, how do I win over this woman again, at least where she can't help but feel sexually attracted to me, and wanting to kiss me.

 

I'm keeping a journal, btw (I highly recommend it to anyone in our sitch). Here's the end of today's entry, a long one.

 

Yesterday, I was really upbeat. Today, I'm very down again. Down about Mom, down because I want to say so much to _________ and cannot. I know I love her. I know she's the most important person in the world to me (and I've told her this, so I won't say it again for some time, I don't want to make __________ uncomfortable). I know that I can give ________ an environment where she will be happy once again, and I will be happy again, or at the very least I know I'm getting there. Just kiss me once _____________. It'd be an awesome sign and give me so much.

 

K... enough of that, what is the game plan now.

 

Do what I did to initially attract her a dozen years ago? In a way I am doing that. Being happy, being upbeat, being a fun guy, and BEING ALOOF. She chased me, I didn't chase her in the beginning. So I am doing this now. Not always (I have my backslides)...

 

What did I do to make myself attractive to her five years ago... I honestly don't know. I assumed it was blind love.

 

Gameplan. I don't have a game plan. I need one.

 

LostinVan

[Beec]

Well you need to think about all the things that you did that made her happy, that hit her emotional hot spots.

 

You need to be the guy just fishing in the moat now. Don't worry about hitting those spots inside the castle. But start figuring out where they are.

[spatzcolumbo]

Guys,

 

I've been thinking some more.

 

Beec said:

 

Relax, breathe through your nose, do not hyperventilate

 

OK, first you need to wait and give her some time to call back. She has changed her number, your message sounds good, what I would want to say in your position, let's see what happens between now and Friday.

 

Right, well after getting really upset last night (partly cos of a little bit of alcohol) i got to thinking about things. I know that i HAVE to be stronger than this mentally. I think that is the one thing that people don't realise...is that whilst no contact is almost impossible mentally, the bit where you actually start having contact again is even harder. It is the bit where you maybe get a shot at trying to win them back. This is the stage at which you have to be strongest mentally.

 

At the moment i am not strong mentally...for the various things that have happened last few days (which may be entirely out of my hands, and her hands) i have crumbled into feeling my situation is hopeless. No reply to my message, and i got upset, only to find out that calling her resulted in me finding out about the phone - either lost, or new number. Strange, i think to myself, that she hasn't told me. But then if its happened recently, maybe she just hasn't told anyone yet.

 

I have let these things get on top of me to the state that i feel weak about the whole situation. I could not (can not) understand how a week ago she was sending me positive random messages, but now a week later due to a frankly unlucky chain of events, i am feeling like it is over between us. However, i have now put myself in a tricky situation. My whole game plan wa partly based around giving her time to ask me out for a drink. Due to the problems with the phone, etc etc, i have ended up leaving a message asking her to call me if she wants to go for a drink. Now this puts me in a tricky situation because:

 

a) if she does call it will be like a shot in my arm, and will get me feeling like i am back in the game

b) if she doesn't call, my negative side will dismiss it as over, lost cause, etc

c) either way it leaves ME leading the situation more then i would have liked

d) it leaves me hanging even MORE, waiting to see if she will call - which is the one thing i DIDN'T want to be doing!!!

 

Anyway, i'm rambling now, but just wanted to get it off my chest.

[spatzcolumbo]

Guys,

 

I've been thinking some more.

 

Beec said:

 

Relax, breathe through your nose, do not hyperventilate

 

OK, first you need to wait and give her some time to call back. She has changed her number, your message sounds good, what I would want to say in your position, let's see what happens between now and Friday.

 

Right, well after getting really upset last night (partly cos of a little bit of alcohol) i got to thinking about things. I know that i HAVE to be stronger than this mentally. I think that is the one thing that people don't realise...is that whilst no contact is almost impossible mentally, the bit where you actually start having contact again is even harder. It is the bit where you maybe get a shot at trying to win them back. This is the stage at which you have to be strongest mentally.

 

At the moment i am not strong mentally...for the various things that have happened last few days (which may be entirely out of my hands, and her hands) i have crumbled into feeling my situation is hopeless. No reply to my message, and i got upset, only to find out that calling her resulted in me finding out about the phone - either lost, or new number. Strange, i think to myself, that she hasn't told me. But then if its happened recently, maybe she just hasn't told anyone yet.

 

I have let these things get on top of me to the state that i feel weak about the whole situation. I could not (can not) understand how a week ago she was sending me positive random messages, but now a week later due to a frankly unlucky chain of events, i am feeling like it is over between us. However, i have now put myself in a tricky situation. My whole game plan wa partly based around giving her time to ask me out for a drink. Due to the problems with the phone, etc etc, i have ended up leaving a message asking her to call me if she wants to go for a drink. Now this puts me in a tricky situation because:

 

a) if she does call it will be like a shot in my arm, and will get me feeling like i am back in the game

b) if she doesn't call, my negative side will dismiss it as over, lost cause, etc

c) either way it leaves ME leading the situation more then i would have liked

d) it leaves me hanging even MORE, waiting to see if she will call - which is the one thing i DIDN'T want to be doing!!!

 

Anyway, i'm rambling now, but just wanted to get it off my chest.

 

----whoops double post...sorry----------

[spatzcolumbo]

I've seen her.

 

I got a message from her just before lunch saying that she was really sorry - she got a new sim card and the old number is being transferred tomorrow, but she hadnt told anyone yet because she has RSI from texting me so much last year, so now she can't text or write properly for about 2 months...

 

Anyway i decided to bite the bullet and ask her out for lunch...she agreed..she sounded flustered, but agreed. Walked round, went to pub.

 

Chatting loads about stuff - just about how things are with me, and her - uni, work, etc. I tried to steer things gently (VERY gently) towards her and another bloke, but she didn't go for it at all. the only hint i got was when i asked something like what did you do for your birthday --> she replied "i got some opera tickets".... i said "oh who bought those then" and she said just my flatmates, or friends or summin. So i didn't push it. She asked about a friend of mine and whether he had a gf yet, and also asked again about why i went away last weekend...not sure if she was trying to push the conversation in that direction too?!?

 

I said about how much happier i am now, and she said she could see it in my face. Made her laugh a lot, and bought up some old things in a funny kinda way...

 

Er what else?? She told me i looked nice in all my new clothes which i have bought since she last saw me...and i of course returned the compliment. Asked her if she'd seen a film that we both wanted to see, and she said yes, but said there was some other stuff she really wants to watch - stuff i happen to have at home, so we agreed to watch them together with a bottle of wine (i bought her a wine glass that fits an entire bottle of wine in it, and have one myself, so that could be fun)...

 

She also told me that at the start of term she had been on a two week bender because she was depressed about Christmas (which is when all the crap happened between us) and also her exam results which were not as she hoped.

 

not once did i mention 'us'.

 

She told me she had no plans for the summer, and asked me if i had anything planned. She also told me she is probably returning home after university to do a masters. I know thats a year and a half away, but she'll be back for good then!!!

 

Anyway, sure there was more, but il post that as i remember it.

 

There was lots of eye contact and smiling and laughing, but no touching. We were sat round a big table so made it kinda hard, but i didn't wanna push it anyway because i just wanted to get a 'next time'.

 

Oh and she gave me a lift back to work because its raining...How nice

 

Damnit now i just wanna see her again. I gotta figureout my game plan again...work out what i need to change...have to make sure i don't just slip into 'friends'. And i still REALLY need to find out if she is seeing anyone.

 

One other thing, she said she was on a diet...she really doesn't need to be, and i told her that, but also teased her a little bit about it...not much, just enough for it to be 'only people really close to me could get away with that' kinda thing...

 

So i have to remember that she can't text much as RSI...but i plan on texting later to say "thanks for lunch - really good to see you again - and it made my afternoon go quicker!"

 

One more thing (last 'one more thing' i promise) is that when she dropped me off she said "i'm busy next week, but i know you are too, but i'll see you soon i'm sure".

 

Thoughts and opinions, as always are welcome - but i don't wanna get my hopes up!!!

[Beec]

Spatz,

 

You do not need to know if she is seeing another guy. Asking will totally undermine your game. Don't pursue that anymore.

 

Yes, you do need to mentally strong to do this. Strong enough to act like you are a rock, you need not be a rock.

 

She was making eye contact??? Then she still likes you, don't screw it up and chase her away, i.e. don't be needy. If you can manage to do that, at least you will still be in the game. Otherwise, you may seal your fate and be looking in from the outside.

 

What do you do next, you invited her over, you set teh stage for you to bust a move. Show some interest with the body language. She if she bites for a little physical contact, but do not push it. If you get a litte, make it very little. Tell her, you are interested, but don't want to ruin any friendship between you with quick knocking of boots.

[spatzcolumbo]

Eye contact started off kinda slow, but picked up as lunch prgressed. To start with, it was there, but no more so than if i were having lunch with any friend. As time progressed, there was more holding eye contact, and less looking away.

 

In terms of wanting to know if she has a guy, i guess its just natural curiosity - wanting to know what i'm up against.

 

Anyway, i also found out that because of the RSI, she will not be working at the pub at all. She was messaging a guy that works there quite a bit over the last term (just a friend, i KNOW that) so i am hoping some of that contact was asking about me, as i see him regularly).

 

So she will not be at the pub, but will be about for the next 3 weeks - month. She has given me negative signals about next week, saying she is busy, so i will not push too much then.

 

Any thoughts on whether i should send the 'thanks for lunch' message??

 

I'm gonna be alone tonight, but i don't think i'll push things by asking her over!!

 

Wine and 'Friends' final series is DEF the way to go - it means lots of laughs, hopefully lots of giggles, and hopefully the chance for some light contact.

[LostinVan]

Any thoughts on whether i should send the 'thanks for lunch' message??

 

I'm gonna be alone tonight, but i don't think i'll push things by asking her over!!

 

Well this is quite the change Gone from "she's changed her phone number so I can never contact her again!!!!" to "gonna be alone tonight, must resist asking her over for the eve".

 

It's funny how our minds can run with the worst gawdawful scenario huh? We're all guilty of this... myself included. Maybe all of us should take a lesson from your very happy news.

 

Re msg, I would do it, but I'm not in your sitch... make it short and sweet, but not too sweet?

 

LostinVan

[spatzcolumbo]

I feel embarrassed by the fact that i was so negative last night...but to be honest, give it a few more days and i will have found another reason to be negative again. i am so reluctant to get my hopes up because thats just setting myself up for a fall!!!

[GeeCee]

Spatz

 

This is good - this is real good. And you played it like a pro. You should be proud of yourself.

 

Was just reading the new posts - thinking and wondering - same &^%$, different names - God knows that I spend too much time on here -strong men and women driven to distraction by their exes. It doesn't seem right. February worrying about a recalled email, me agonising about an unanswered text, Rich agonising about life, Spatzing writing the perfect thanks for lunch text. WFT. Where has the sponteneity gone? I like to be frivolous, unpredictable. I don't want to plan everything to the nth degree. I have had lots of 'conversations' with Beec about this - I agree wholeheartedly with most of what he says. And whereas we all know that life is a game - we have to play the game in order to get on. There can come a point where the game is no longer any fun - and that's the dichotomy. This is not fun.

 

And the more I thought, the more I could not rationalise this as good behaviour. Sure we all want our exes back, but at what price? You know sometimes I think I will do all I can to get him back, but boy is he gonna suffer. And surely our love is more fragile now. So much more fragile. But, I also know that should he come back, I would try to be more cautious, but really don't know how successful I would be at that.

 

So, I guess you could say that I am having a down day. Tired of the monotony of it. The constant gameplaying. The mindf*&^s. And to what end? I don't know how old you lot are, but I am old enough to have hoped that this BS was behind me (38 if you are wondering ... but looking good!!!)

 

I didn't post on the site today, because I even felt a little dissillusioned about this. Are we all, in our desperate states leading each other a merry dance. In our desire to recapture something that might no longer be there, do we see what we want to see. I know that my ex is a decent guy. He's a wonderful man. He would not treat me badly, he has been totally honest with me. Never abusive. It is just possible that he knows that I am hurt and he wants to do all he can to minimise that. Maybe he does just want to be friends. But like a drowning woman, I see every little thing as a lifeline - even a subtle enquiry.

 

And of course, we post, and everyone being in the same boat, we encourage each other along the same path of hope - the blind leading the blind.

 

Don't misunderstand me, I know that somewhere down the line I could be happy with somone else. I am actually a fairly good catch (as are you all, I have no doubt). But I have a longing and a desire for this man. A real longing, and a belief that it really is not over. I do not look at him and see someone who is resigned to the fact that it is over. I look at him and see confusion laced with desire. You know, the head saying one thing and the heart reading from a completely different script.

 

Sorry guys, laying far too much on you here. Really, am not usually like this. I will bounce back. I will be fine.

 

Also know that as much as I value Beec's advice here (and believe me he has been an absolute lifesaver for me) I do not believe that you can have anyone you want as long as you push the right buttons. I have been in a relationship with a man, who wanted to commit and did all the right things, said all the right things, was all the right things. But it just wasn't happening for me. I bet like you, there has to be that indefinitive spark. That 'je ne sais quoi!' That something that intoxicates you and makes your head spin.

 

Ok, have quietly ranted, am done, you will be relieved to know!

 

G xx

 

P.S. Sorry about this - it will pass - politely ignoring this would probably be the way to go.

P.P.S. And of course, the bollocks is - when the ex contacts me next time, my head WILL be SPINNING and I know that I will be INTOXICATED and the merry dance will begin all over again!!!

[GeeCee]

Just like Pavlov's &^%*ing dog!!!

 

G xx

[spatzcolumbo]

Ya know what Geecee, that was a bloody great post. I've thought that so many times on this board. We all try our best to help each other, but how often is the advice given just the way we WANT to see things so that we can envisage the best possible outcome for our own situations. Another reason i find it so hard when people tell me how well i have done, because ultimately i can not turn round to my ex and say "but you MUST come back because *insert your name here* on the board said i was doing well!!!"

 

Ultimately we are still all on our own.

 

As for your comment "maybe the ex does just want to be friends". Again, you're spot on. Maybe that is all she wants. Maybe my lunch today was about us being friends. We get on so well, and if we had never been together, we still would have been best friends. But now i know that is not what i want. I know that even without the sexual aspect of a relationship, i see her as my partner - i see her as the one i trust more than anyone, and the one i want to spend time with more than anyone else. I know how well we get on, how much we laugh together, and how happy i am when i'm with her. And i know that to some extent she feels that too. I know that she has a great time.

 

I remember her seeing her ex when we were together, in a similar way to us meeting earlier. She came home and said how awkward it had been, and how she had not wanted to be there. Today i can not see that it was like that. I do think she wanted to be there, i believe she had a great time. I even said to her "i hope you are happy coming out for lunch" because i kinda sprung it on her. She told me she could have said no if she hadn't wanted to see me. but she DID want to see me. I just know that i have to make her remember how great things were. As i said previously, she even told me how she had been thinking, and had decided she would be coming back here after her degree. No need to tell me this, but it felt reassuring in a strange way. I can not describe it, but it made me think even the stupidest thing like "maybe she thinks about the future".

 

To be honest, i have no idea at all. I know why things went wrong when we split. I have remedied those things, and am constantly trying to improve. She saw how much i have improved today. She saw that we still laugh together so much, and that we get on SO well. If she is with anyone else, all she needs to see now is that i am BETTER than them. And i am so sure i can be that. Maybe not short term, maybe not whilst she is at uni, but i KNOW that long term, i am the best person for her. I am sure of it.

 

It is about risking your emotions, and putting yourself out there for a big fall. I'm the first to fall over at the slightest thing, but then Beec, Geecee, Majord, and the others will pick me up and tell me not to give in, not yet.

 

Time for bed. This has been a long post.

[GeeCee]

February - check your inbox!!!!

 

Great minds think alike.

 

Ooooooh - we are going to have soooo much fun!!

 

G xx

 

P.S. I told that it would pass - I feel much better!

[GeeCee]

Spatz - this is a good post from you. Shows that you are thinking. Very rationally.

 

I am not suggesting that this is the case for you. But here's a little bit of another chapter of my life (believe it or not, my life does not revolve around my ex, although it may seem that way).

 

My best friend is a man, he has been my best friend for 14 years. I adore him. He is in love with me. He knows it. I know it. We have discussed it many times, long into the night, over too much alcohol. It has been that way for the longest time. Nothing has ever happened between us in the physical sense, and he knows that nothing will ever happen between us. In the past, this caused some difficulty for us - for him especially. It no longer does - he values me too much to lose me.

 

He says that I am his soulmate. I feel honoured. In some ways he could be my soulmate, but I have to be honest, sex has a high priority in my life and so I have this fundamental belief that my soulmate has to be my partner. I could be wrong about this. If I was in dire straits, I know who would phone, and it would not be the ex.

 

The relationship between us has evolved over time. He knows that what we have is special, in some ways deeper than the relationship I have with my ex. He accepts this. We have always been completely honest with each other.

 

You have a connection with your ex Spatz. What you have to think about is what could this connection evolve into, with time. Maybe she is your soulmate. Maybe she will be your lover again. Don't close doors to her. Be her friend, be her companion, be her soulmate. Maybe ultimately you can be her lover again.

 

G xx

[majord23]

GeeCee, spatz.

 

Truer posts have never been written.

 

Love is *always* crap until you find the one that you want to be with forever....and even then, it's sometimes STILL crap!

 

(Ummm....can i say crap?)

 

GeeCee,

I've been there and yes, It *is* stupid. Here is something I posted on this forum about 2 years ago:

 

 

"We are all adults, yet we have all been reduced to playing emotional games with our exes and ourselves in order to win their love.

We consult strangers on an internet forum for advice and our emotions swing from sublime to silly over the course of a day....all dependent on who? An ex, a text, an email, a phonecall....or even worse, the lack of them.

 

I hate games, God I hate games. I hate the fact that we all can't just be honest with people and wear our hearts on our sleeves. I would have thought that honesty and caring were admirable qualities, but apparently these qualities have no place in the world of 'getting back together'.

Calling someone to tell them that you were thinking of them used to be considered sweet........now it's the wrong thing to do. Heaven forbid we should attempt to speak from the heart, instead we have to speak from our arses....so we play games.

 

 

And for what?

 

To win the love of someone who has already broken our hearts.

 

Shouldn't *our* love be something worth winning?

Why is it *us* that must make an effort to show someone who doesn't want us, how much we care about *them*? Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

Why waste time on someone who has already hurt us?

 

If I had 100 baskets in front of me, knowing that 10 of the baskets contained snakes that would bite me....after being bitten by one of the snakes, would I put my hand back in the same basket? Or perhaps try one of the other 99?

 

Makes sense in that analogy, it's logical....love aint. Dammit."

 

....just so you know I've been there hunny x

[GeeCee]

OH MY LORD!!!!!

 

Majord - please please please don't tell me that I have two more years of this crap waiting for me.

 

Your post was perfect. I have cut and paste it - am saving it for when I do something stupid. Or I am going to start challenging it. Bollocks to not saying how you care. This is the problem all these mind%^&$s - no-one knows where they stand. Not you, not the ex. I am a strong person emotionally. I can cope with rejection. If the ex said no sorry I do not want to see you. I would be able to accept that. I have no choice. And I am not generally in the habit of wailing and screaming.

 

I am not a doormat. I refuse to behave like one. I think that there needs to be a change. I am so pleased you posted that Majord. One of the best things that I enjoyed about my relationship with M was the honesty and lack of games. I want that, crave it. And so, suddenly, doing this is ridiculous.

 

Now, don't start hyperventillating Majord - promise that I shall not go overboard. When I see the ex, though, I might truthfully tell him that I have missed him. No shame in that. I have missed him. And I know that he has missed me. Whether he tells me that is up to him. But I am not telling him, because I need validation from him. How he answers me, if he does, is up to him. But actually, I WANT TO SAY IT!!!

 

G xx

 

P.S. BTW, Majord, I HAVE MISSED YOU!!! Don't leave it so long next time.

P.P.S. That does not mean you have to validate that comment by saying that you have missed me!!! I much prefer this game.

[Beec]

 

Also know that as much as I value Beec's advice here (and believe me he has been an absolute lifesaver for me) I do not believe that you can have anyone you want as long as you push the right buttons. I have been in a relationship with a man, who wanted to commit and did all the right things, said all the right things, was all the right things. But it just wasn't happening for me. I bet like you, there has to be that indefinitive spark. That 'je ne sais quoi!' That something that intoxicates you and makes your head spin.

 

 

G,

 

Hope you are doing better than when you wrote this. Know you will be soon.

 

I won't agree with you and I doubt your "friend" really hit all the right buttons. The ones you consciously know of, he mghit have hit, but we don't know all of our own buttons. I only know some of mine, and frankly I don't want to know them all. I like when she knows how to play too.

 

However, I will admit there are targets that are really really really tough to hit. And, there are buttons that some of us just cannot reach in the right way at teh right time on some targets. Sometimes, you go out and look at your opponent and you are stepping in to do combat against a cripple with no arms, other times the oppoent is Muhammad Ali or Bruce Lee and while victory is theoretically possible, it is unlikely, highly unlikely. With the tougher opponets, you need to play the perfect game. And few, have the time, confidence and skill to win those ones. They can be won, but they will not be won often.