Do people believe in "positive thinking"?

[Seraphim]

Awesome post Jetti!

[agent1607307371]

"We are hurt most by what we do not expect, so expect everything and count on nothing. "We live in the middle of things which have all been destined to die. Mortal have you been born, to mortals have you given birth. So you must reckon on everything, expect everything."

 

"I think you have to be a certain type of person to like it though"

 

I like it, agent. I am that type of person who understands and appreciates this. Thank you for sharing.

 

Definitely check out Seneca then. It's not a philosophy for people who want to cave in on themselves, it's about learning to inocculate yourself from the pains of life. It sounds really depressing, but it's not. Honestly It's about learning what's important and letting go of what's not.

I own link removed book about him and if you can get past the crappy cover, it's very nteresting.

His writings are available link removed as well. Synchronetically, I've actually been reading them tonight.

[jettison]

Yes, I am happy and great things happen in my life.

 

"I just want to be happy half the time, and blue, only when I have the time."

 

I also just want to be true to whatever emotion I'm feeling and not get taken over by that emotion. If I can recognize my emotions for what they are, and become The Watcher who is a witness to this person having these strong emotions, then those emotions can never command me.

[jettison]

Here are some thoughts from Osho on this subject:

 

link removed says: Grasp the Principle of two Witnesses.

 

Avoid the first and plunge into the second. There is another meaning to this sutra too. The other meaning is, first witness the objects of the mind. This is a higher meaning than the first. Witness the objects of the mind.

Patanjali calls it dhyana, meditation -- from the same word come zen and CH'AN. Witness the objects, the contents, of the mind. Whatsoever passes before you, watch it, without evaluating, judging or condemning. Don't be for or against, just watch, and dhyana, meditation, is created.

 

And the second is, witness the witness itself -- and samadhi is created, satori is created, the ultimate ecstasy is created. The first leads to the second. Start watching your thoughts but don't stop there. When thoughts have disappeared then don't think that you have arrived. One more thing has to be done, one more step. Now watch the watcher. Now just witness the witnessing.

 

Nothing else is left, only you are. Just suddenly become aware of awareness itself, and then dhyana is transformed into samadhi. By watching the mind, the mind disappears. By watching the witness, the witness expands and becomes universal. The first is a negative step to get rid of the mind. The second is a positive step to get rooted in the ultimate consciousness -- call it God or nirvana or whatever you wish.

 

The second sutra: Always Rely on Just a happy frame of mind.

If you are unhappy, that simply means that you have learned tricks for being unhappy, and nothing else. Unhappiness depends on the frame of your mind. There are people who are unhappy in all kinds of situations. They have a certain quality in their mind which transforms everything into unhappiness. If you tell them about the beauty of the rose they immediately start counting the thorns. If you say to them, "What a beautiful morning, what a sunny day!" they will look at you as if they are surprised by your statement.

 

They will say, "So what! One day between two dark nights! It is only one day between two dark nights, so what is the big deal? Why are you looking so fascinated?" The same thing can be seen from a positive reference; then suddenly each night is surrounded by two days. And then suddenly it is a miracle that the rose is possible, that such a delicate flower is possible among so many thorns. Everything is the same. All depends on what kind of frame you are carrying in your head.

 

Millions of people are carrying crosses; naturally, obviously, they are burdened. Their life is a drag. Their frame is such that it immediately becomes focused on everything that is negative. It magnifies the negative; it is a morbid approach towards life, pathological. But they go on thinking, "What can we do? The world is such."

 

No, the world is not such! The world is absolutely neutral. It has thorns, it has roses, it has nights, it has days. The world is utterly neutral, balanced, it has all. Now it depends on you as to what you choose. If you have decided to choose only the wrong, you will live in a wrong kind of world, because you will live in your own chosen world.

That's how people create hell and heaven on the same earth. It looks very unbelievable that Buddha lived on this earth with the same kind of people, and lived in paradise.

 

And you also live on the same earth with the same kind of people, and you live in hell. Now, there are two possibilities. The political mind says, "Change the world." The religious mind says, "Change the frame of your mind." Religion and politics are diametrically opposite. There is a possibility one day of a meeting of science and religion. Sooner or later, science and religion are bound to meet, because their approach is very similar. Maybe the direction is different -- science searches the outer, and religion the inner.

 

But the search, the quality of the search, is the same. The spirit of the search is the same. But I don't see any possibility that politics and religion can ever meet. Politics always thinks the world is wrong; change the society, the economic structure, this and that, and everything will be okay. And religion says the world has always been the same and will remain the same; you can change only one thing -- the context of your mind, the space of your mind.

[grymoire]

I was doing very well in my life and was a very happy person.... until I stumbled upon the first self-help book that I happened to read. It was called the "The Power of Positive Thinking" written by Norman Vincent Peale. My life has never been the same from that point on. Until that time I was a normal person having realistic expectations from my life, reasonable goals, and the ability to use MY own brain to solve MY problems. After I read that book I started thinking anything is possible and started going off-course... I also kept jumping to one self-help book after another and unknowingly was turning into a self-help junkie...

 

When you become a self-help junkie you will start losing touch with reality and start dreaming things and believe you can achieve anything. How? Because you can achieve anything if only you believe in the power of positive thinking. While I was dreaming impossible dreams my friends that did not read such books had realistic goals like finishing school, getting a job etc... While I was chasing the dreams they got good jobs, nice cars, got married, bought homes and are now settled in life. They never read any of those books. I saw that and realized how I made a fool of myself.... I finally realized how I became a greedy fool.... When you find yourself reading "how to win friends and influence people" instead of getting out of your home and joining a book club or gym or other places where you can meet new people and make friends then that is a sign that is something wrong with you...

 

Today I am not a greedy idiot. I do not want positive thinking or any other new age baloney.... I am happy to see the world as it stands and set realistic goals and have realistic expectations. How about some reality instead of positive thinking? People on Wall Street had tons of positive thinking.. but the reality today is the Fed has to rescue them with our tax payer dollars..

 

Wake up people!!! America is a country of Self-Reliance. Let us rely on our brains, experiences, our friends, and the wisdom of our elders instead of spending 25 bucks for yet another one size fit for all book written by Dr.Phil or Deepak Chopra... I guess we can run our own lives!!

[kuiks8]

I appreciate the post and the reminder Jettison. I am grateful for your thought provoking posts

[Traveler27]

kuiks8

"so traveler what are your beliefs? if you don't believe in positve thinking and trying to grow and change and better yourself what do you do?"

 

"so there's less harm in staying where you are at, stewing in your illness, believing you can't find a job, or get over your heartbreak...you're right no harm in that at all"

 

Of course I believe in growth and change. I don't believe I stated anything that could be interpreted as not wanting to grow or change. I have made significant sacrifices and changes in my life and have challenged myself to do things to achieve the "happiness" I am seeking. I also don't believe I am "stewing" in anything, and resent the implication. What I do is HOPE for something better as well as doing everything in my power to make those hopes happen, but am mentally prepared if they do not become reality.

[jettison]

I see the ghost of a better world living in your disbelief in ghosts.

[lana111]

in short... yes.

 

i think if you think positive and dont let yourself be negative, your life will be on the up and up. yes- positive thinking isnt going to cure cancer, but it sure will give you better chances. positive thinking can work wonders.

[kuiks8]

I am sorry if i offended but hope is a part of positive thinking...that is what people who pratice positive thinking do, they focus on what they do have even if it has to come down to the basics i/e i am grateful i have a bed to sleep on and food for the next day and they HOPE....

 

Truly did not mean to offend.

[Seraphim]

But you can not blame a book for YOUR actions. YOu are taking away your resposibilty for your life and blaming someone else.

 

 

 

I was doing very well in my life and was a very happy person.... until I stumbled upon the first self-help book that I happened to read. It was called the "The Power of Positive Thinking" written by Norman Vincent Peale. My life has never been the same from that point on. Until that time I was a normal person having realistic expectations from my life, reasonable goals, and the ability to use MY own brain to solve MY problems. After I read that book I started thinking anything is possible and started going off-course... I also kept jumping to one self-help book after another and unknowingly was turning into a self-help junkie...

 

When you become a self-help junkie you will start losing touch with reality and start dreaming things and believe you can achieve anything. How? Because you can achieve anything if only you believe in the power of positive thinking. While I was dreaming impossible dreams my friends that did not read such books had realistic goals like finishing school, getting a job etc... While I was chasing the dreams they got good jobs, nice cars, got married, bought homes and are now settled in life. They never read any of those books. I saw that and realized how I made a fool of myself.... I finally realized how I became a greedy fool.... When you find yourself reading "how to win friends and influence people" instead of getting out of your home and joining a book club or gym or other places where you can meet new people and make friends then that is a sign that is something wrong with you...

 

Today I am not a greedy idiot. I do not want positive thinking or any other new age baloney.... I am happy to see the world as it stands and set realistic goals and have realistic expectations. How about some reality instead of positive thinking? People on Wall Street had tons of positive thinking.. but the reality today is the Fed has to rescue them with our tax payer dollars..

 

Wake up people!!! America is a country of Self-Reliance. Let us rely on our brains, experiences, our friends, and the wisdom of our elders instead of spending 25 bucks for yet another one size fit for all book written by Dr.Phil or Deepak Chopra... I guess we can run our own lives!!

[grymoire]

I see the ghost of a better world living in your disbelief in ghosts.

 

did not understand... sorry... can u explain it in simpler terms?

[Traveler27]

"Definitely check out Seneca then. It's not a philosophy for people who want to cave in on themselves, it's about learning to inocculate yourself from the pains of life. It sounds really depressing, but it's not. Honestly It's about learning what's important and letting go of what's not.

I own this book about him and if you can get past the crappy cover, it's very nteresting.

His writings are available here as well. Synchronetically, I've actually been reading them tonight."

Actually, it doesn't sound depressing at all. Stoicism - what an interesting topic to read about. Ironically, it's a quality I have been told I possess and I admire people who display it as well. I will certainly check it out; thanks for the links.

[grymoire]

so there's less harm in staying where you are at, stewing in your illness, believing you can't find a job, or get over your heartbreak...you're right no harm in that at all

 

whoa there... that's really a low blow.... certainly the OP did not do anything to deserve that.

[kuiks8]

whoa there... that's really a low blow.... certainly the OP did not do anything to deserve that.

 

i already apologized, and i am sorry stewing was the wrong word...again i am sorry didn't mean to offend.

[jettison]

in short... yes.

 

i think if you think positive and dont let yourself be negative, your life will be on the up and up. yes- positive thinking isnt going to cure cancer, but it sure will give you better chances. positive thinking can work wonders.

 

There are those that would contend that the opposite end of the spectrum is true... that negative thinking can actually cause cancer. And the "dirty trick" that's attached to this sentiment goes as follows:

 

Visit your enemy. Tell your enemy, "Sorry to bother you, but I just can't get over it.... that look."

 

Of course, the response will be something like, "What the bleep are you talking about?"

 

"Well, I probably shouldn't have even said anything at all, nevermind. I should learn to just keep my fat mouth shut."

 

"Seriously, you're getting on my nerves. What?!"

 

"Well, it's just your skin color. I've almost never seen that color except for one other time. My uncle Henry's skin looked just like that right before he was diagnosed with end-stage liver cancer and biliary cirrhosis. I mean, he was feeling fine, but he just looked a little... I don't know... off. It's hard to describe. He even went in to the doctor to get checked out, and nothing. He was so relieved that it was all in his head."

 

"I don't have "a look", what are you talking about?"

 

"Well, I'm just telling you because even though the doctors said that he was fine, he was dead 5 months later. And, I just though, I don't know... I mean, I knew I shouldn't have said anything, but the resemblance is uncanny."

[Crazyaboutdogs]

Positive thinking can improve the quality of life but you have to be realistic too. There is a difference between positive thinking and having rose coloured glasses on. People who have life threatening diseases fare better if they are more positive..that doesn't mean they have to think that their disease will get better, it is simply a matter of making the most of the time they have left and not wallowing in self pity. Having a positive attitude can improve their quality of life, and, in some anecdotal cases have been attributed to prolonging life a little bit beyond what was expected. Positive thinking will not necessarily get you what you want...there are many external factors which come into play that a person has no control over. So while I believe it is better to be a postive thinker rather than a negative thinker, I think the positve thinking has to be realistic, not flights of fancy.

[jettison]

And "The Secret" actually makes people's lives worse in your estimation? Hope makes their lives worse? How is engaging in a Disney movie for two hours any worse then watching The Secret?

 

And why, on a personal level, are you disappointed? How will someone else having hope, even if it's false, affect your life negatively in the least?

[bulletproof]

I was doing very well in my life and was a very happy person.... until I stumbled upon the first self-help book that I happened to read. It was called the "The Power of Positive Thinking" written by Norman Vincent Peale. My life has never been the same from that point on. Until that time I was a normal person having realistic expectations from my life, reasonable goals, and the ability to use MY own brain to solve MY problems. After I read that book I started thinking anything is possible and started going off-course... I also kept jumping to one self-help book after another and unknowingly was turning into a self-help junkie...

 

Nobody ever said we should stop using our own brain. Quite the opposite. We should be using our own brain to create our own reality by changing our perceptions. And like anything else, even self-help should be used in moderation. Anything can get addictive and abused by a person.

 

So how is your life going now without thinking positively?

 

A lot of people here talk about "reality" and quite frankly I think that's a very fluid word. We also have to be really careful about what we call reality when it is in actuality us being negative. I was guilty for a long time of saying, "I'm just being realistic" even though what was really coming out of my mouth was a bunch of negative predictions based entirely on nothing.

[agent1607307371]

Heh, I'm such a geek that my biggest complaint is that it takes a philosophy that is thousands of years old called Hermeneutics, simplifies it, waters it down and then sells it on to the masses.

[Traveler27]

Hilarious! People are so desperate, they'll apparently believe anything. Thanks for the laugh, grymoire

[grymoire]

And "The Secret" actually makes people's lives worse in your estimation? Hope makes their lives worse? How is engaging in a Disney movie for two hours any worse then watching The Secret?

 

And why, on a personal level, are you disappointed? How will someone else having hope, even if it's false, affect your life negatively in the least?

 

yea bro.. watching a Disney movie and The Secret are quite the same. both are hilarious and very entertaining... only difference is that the Disney movie is for children and The Secret is for adult children

[Souvenirs]

Here's my take on it.

 

Humans, as soon as they gain the ability to, constantly fool themselves.

 

Right about the time they start building up an ego.

 

Reality just *is*, there's nothing absolutely negative or positive about it, we just start dissecting it in absolutes, white and black good and bad, desirable undesirable.

 

Being positive means perceiving reality to your advantage, which is the smart thing to do.

 

There's a kind of optimism which is more harmful than being negative, the heads in the cloud one.

 

Ex: I perceive myself losing weigth but I will eat as much as before and keep my life style exactly the way it is.

 

That's magical thinking. A good way out of taking our responsabilities to get what we really want. I hate that.

 

At the end of the day, nobody's better or worse than someone else. There's people good at fooling themselves that they are better and people who are good at fooling themselves that they're not.

 

I think the ultimate freedom is observing reality with as less interpretation as possible.

 

Instead of thinking:

 

"I couldn't get the job, I'm a failure."

 

or

 

"I couldn't get the job, but I'll do better next time."

 

I choose:

 

"The employer didn't chose me to work for his company. Let's try again."

 

No need to start telling ourselves some epic story as to why something happen. Just observe, let go and move on.

 

Generally speaking, trying to achieve something is more beneficial than being positive about it and doing nothing.

[bulletproof]

Generally speaking, trying to achieve something is more beneficial than being positive about it and doing nothing.

 

Absolutely. I think it was written in an earlier post that the work to achieve something still has to be done. Simply being positive isn't going to make something happen without the action.

 

But being positive often prompts people to actually take that action. If we think we are going to fail, we often don't even try.

 

Again, I would ask those posters who are thinking positively vs. those not to rate their lives/happiness. I think that is a good gauge of whether it's worth it to be positive, albeit within a small sampling.

[JeckyllNHyde]

i believe in it, my bf does even more.

he believes that if you worry alot and think negative thoughts, somehow you "draw" what you fear towards you. i dont know how to explain it but he makes alot of sense and believes very much in it.

if your going to be negative, no matter how much positive stuff happens, you may not even notice it or appreciate it=a very unhappy person.